New to the Group with Newbie Questions

August 10, 2007

Hello,

My name is Mike Kaufman. My wife and I have a 4.5 year old son with

ASD (his name is Caeden).

He was progressing very well until about his 1st birthday when he was

given antibiotics (for fluid in the ear - not an infection - didn't

know enough to say no to the doctor back then) and his vaccinations

the same day.

He soon after had what was deemed an allergic reaction to the

antibiotic. Then, he came down with Chicken Pox from the vaccine.

Following that, the whole family came down with a severe flu

including very high fevers.

After a full six weeks of dealing with all of these issues, Caeden

came out on the other end a totally different kid. All language

stopped (he had developed quite a few words up to that point). He

stopped chewing his food. His normal laugh and smiley personality

were gone. He stopped interacting. Basically, everything stopped.

We spent about a year waiting on our family doctor to see a need to

refer us to someone to have this all looked into. In hindsight it

was silly to wait for him to do something. We should have, but

there's no going back now.

About a year and a half ago, our family started eating primarily

natural/organic foods and raw milk from grass fed/pastured cows and

only sprouted/soaked grain breads. We still fudge more than I'd

like, but our diet is 90% better than it was.

We've seen some improvements in Caeden. He is gaining some language,

but it is still very minimal for his age (basically, " I want _____,

please " ). In most cases, we'll use signs for the items he's asking

for, which will " trigger " the word for him. Otherwise, he often

can't come up with the right word for what he wants.

He interacts MUCH more than he had and is more affectionate than he

was. But, he still has alot of " strange " tendencies such as odd

sounds and facial expressions that he makes, sensory seeking

activities such as jumping off couches onto his knees or throwing

himself on the floor (and numerous other actions directed at the same

result).

It often takes considerable effort to get him to focus on us and

listen to what we are saying, and most times he doesn't seem to

really understand anyway.

Caeden's stools are generally loose but not runny. It's hard to tell

if this is from lingering GI issues or simply because he eats so much

sprouted grain bread which seems to keep stools loose anyway. He

gets gas sometimes, but not frequently, and does not seem to be in

any pain or discomfort most of the time.

We were sent info about the SCD diet by my sister-in-law and I must

say that I'm encouraged by the prospects, but I have some questions.

1) Since Caeden has been drinking raw milk for quite some time now

and SEEMS to be tolerating it pretty well, should we simply change

him over to the 24 hour yogurt using the milk we currently are

purchasing or should we take a " break " in the beginning and stick to

the dairy free SCD for a bit?

2) I've already been making yogurt for quite some time now, but only

fermenting for about 8 hours. If I do the 24 hour yogurt using

the " SCD Sanctioned " Progurt starter, can I do it from the raw milk

or do I have to " cook it " first? I have been doing raw milk yogurt

without heating above 110 degrees and we've done well with that. I

really hate to heat the milk and basically " pasteurize it " myself,

when we spend so much to get good raw milk. Is the heating really

necessary, and, if so, why? I have to admit I'll really need an

awefully good reason to heat it in order to bring myself to do it.

It really does seem like such a waste, considering how much more

nutritionally valuable raw milk is to pasteurized.

3) I've read a great deal of information on numerous sites about the

SCD diet. I've printed off the legal/illegal list, understand the

basic outline of what the diet is all about and have found a few

websites offering recipes that I'll probably use to start. Armed

with this information and some common sense, do I NEED to purchase

the book? Quite frankly, with our additional food expenses and a

slow down in my paychecks, if I don't really need the book, I'd

rather not purchase it.

4) I don't purchase the book, can anyone outline for me the basic

timeline for how this diet should go? It is my understanding that it

starts out pretty strict and then can be " loosened up " a bit over

time depending upon how the child tolerates the introduction of new

foods.

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just really " green " to this and

want to do it right so that we don't get off on the wrong track and

mistakenly find that the diet " doesn't work " when, in fact, we just

didn't do it right.

Thanks for any help.

Mike Kaufman

August 11, 2007

Hi, Mike!

Welcome to Pecan Bread!

Here's an article which is part of a book I'm

assembling which may help you get a handle on things. About the raw milk:

I do believe that there's a great deal of benefit

to be gained from raw milk, but NOT at the

beginning of the diet. Back when I was beginning

a raw diet for my fur kids, I was desperately

worried about feeding them raw chicken --

salmonella! And who knows what other kind of

bacteria! My vet advised me that she had never

seen a healthy animal started on raw food who

became ill -- in all her years of practice, only

one, who was sick when the owner tried the switch, became ill.

Raw milk people are doubtless right about their

particular passion, and it's certain that we

humans have drunk raw milk for far longer than we

have drunk pasteurized. However, we who are on

SCD are NOT healthy initially. And like that poor

sick dog, we don't want to throw more at our systems than they are ready for.

It's like the difference between cooked and raw veggies.

By pasteurizing it, we eliminate all but the

specific bacterial strains we want from the milk

we are culturing into yogurt. We starve out the

bad bacteria, and introduce (through our yogurt)

specific, well-studied strains which we know are

beneficial. We let our system adjust to eating

human style instead of rumen style. THEN, and

only then, do we consider adding things.

My suspicion is that raw milk yogurt should be

regarded like kefir -- a very advanced food, to

be used only after significant healing has taken place.

Making the Change

This is a repetition of what was said earlier,

but it cannot be stressed often enough.

Eventually, this information becomes second

nature to you. You will not have to rummage in

BTVC, hunting for a page number. You may even

find yourself able to quote the page number without looking it up.

· Any cereal grain is strictly and

absolutely forbidden. (BTVC p49), including, but

not limited to, wheat, corn, oats, rice, rye,

millet, buckwheat, triticale, etc. This means

none in any form. Bread, cake, toast, macaroni,

etc. etc. is absolutely forbidden if made with

grain. This also includes such products as

Metamucil®, which is psyllium (grain) husk.

· Carbohydrates (starches and sugars)

other than those found in fruits, honey, properly

prepared yogurt, and certain vegetables are also forbidden.

· Liquid milk is forbidden. Milk must be

properly fermented, as yogurt, or as cheese made

with rennet or other enzymes. Some people find

even yogurt which has been fermented for 24 hours

difficult to digest, and do better with “dripped”

or “drained” yogurt, also called yogurt cheese.

Small amounts of heavy cream, treated with

lactaid drops, and kept in the refrigerator for

24 hours after treatment may be used in coffee or tea.

· Most beans (legumes) are forbidden.

Dried white (navy) beans, lentils, split peas,

and both dried and fresh lima beans are

permitted. (BTVC, p 53-54) These must be prepared

according to the directions in the Gourmet

Section of BTVC: specifically, they must be

soaked for at least eight hours, drained (throw

away the soak water), rinsed, and then cooked

until tender in fresh water. All legumes other

than the ones mentioned above are illegal.

Illegal legumes include, but are not limited to

chick peas, bean sprouts, soybeans, mung beans,

faba beans, garbanzo beans, and pinto beans.

· Canned, processed vegetables are

forbidden. They often have unlisted sugar or

starch. If you can your own vegetables, with no

illegal additives, these are legal. Normally

however, you should use fresh, or fresh frozen.

Be sure to peel and seed these at the beginning of the diet.

· Most canned fruits are illegal. Read

labels carefully, and only use those packed in

their own juice with no added sweeteners. Fresh

or fresh frozen are preferred. If you can your

own fruits, with no illegal additives, these are

legal. In the early stages of the diet, all

fruits should be peeled, seeded, and cooked.

· All sweeteners except saccharin and

filtered honey are forbidden. Be especially wary

of any products labeled “sugar-free” – even those

without illegal aspartame will often have

mannitol and sorbitol, which are sugar alcohols.

Products containing these are allowed to call

themselves “sugar free” because alcohol sugars

are indigestible by human beings. But the bad

bugs in your gut will have a marvelous time dining on them, and keep you sick!

· Be aware that fruits and raw vegetables

have laxative qualities, so if active diarrhea is

your reason for coming to the SCD, these must be

used with caution until normal function resumes.

These same raw fruits and vegetables can also

cause other forms of gastric upset, like gas,

queasy stomach, etc. if you eat them too early in the diet.

· Everyone is different. Cooked carrots,

as an example, are usually well tolerated by most

people, one reason they are included on the

introductory diet. I, on the other hand, didn’t

tolerate carrots at all – they simply came

through completely undigested. Yet I could eat

both cooked and raw broccoli and cauliflower

(both notorious for giving people trouble) with

impunity. Even legal foods can be a problem if

you eat them too soon, or eat too much of them.

· It has taken you quite a few years to

become ill; it may very well take months, or even

years to heal from all the damage that has been done to your system.

· In any healing situation, it is often a

case of two steps forward and one step back.

Don’t give up! You are giving your body the

nutrition it needs, and you have eliminated the

foods which made you sick in the first place.

All these negatives can be

dispiriting, though. As one person wailed when

confronted with the above list, “Don’t tell me

what I can’t eat! Give me a list of what I can

eat.” That answer is pretty easy.

· Fresh or frozen beef, lamb, poultry, pork, fish, eggs

· Vegetables – fresh or frozen, raw or

cooked (with no added sugar or starch)

· Homemade yogurt fermented at least 24 hours

· Natural cheeses with little or no lactose,

such as Cheddar, Colby, havarti, Swiss, dry curd cottage cheese

· Fruits – fresh or frozen, raw or cooked; (with no added sugar)

· Salad and cooking oils

· Honey, nuts and nut flours, spices

· Very dry wine, occasional gin, rye, Scotch, bourbon, vodka, etc.

Now that you have reminded yourself

what changes you are going to be making in your diet, let’s get going.

My first honest recommendation, if

you, or a member of your household, has the

strength, is to make a trip to a local chain

bookstore, and ask for some of the large, sturdy

cartons they receive their weekly shipments in.

These are big enough for serious packing, but not

so big they can’t be lifted afterwards. Then go

through your pantry and cupboards and pack up all

the illegal foods and take them to a food bank.

Then they won’t be there to tempt you with things

you used to use. If you don’t have the energy,

don’t worry: that will come. It took me six

months to have the energy to do it.

If you can, sit down with your

family and explain to them that the SCDer is

going on a very strict diet in order to get well. Their help is needed.

In an ideal world, the SCDer’s

entire family would go on SCD with them. However,

this is not an ideal world, and the probability

is excellent that non-SCD family members may be

reluctant to give up certain food items.

If the entire family is not on SCD,

and if the SCDer is the primary food preparer in

the house, then the rest of the family should be

requested to pitch in. It’s truly unfair to ask

the SCDer to try to fix two sets of meals, one

‘normal’, and one SCD. (Been there, done that.

Two months into SCD, I did a full Christmas

dinner for my family with parallel menus. Know

what? The SCD food went first. So my second SCD

Christmas was one hundred per cent SCD!)

If family members bring illegal

foods into the house, they should do the SCDer

the courtesy of storing them where they are not

in sight or accessible. Courtesy to the SCDer

also means not preparing and offering illegal foods.

If possible, get them to understand

that eating the wrong foods can be just as

injurious to an SCDer’s mental and physical

health as offering an alcoholic a bottle of gin

or bourbon. It is not a matter of willpower on

the part of the SCDer. It is courtesy on the part

of non-SCDers not to put temptation in the way of the SCDer.

Also be prepared for the fact that

as the SCDer begins to get well, there may be a

strange kind of resistance on the part of family

members. The SCDer has been ill for so very long

that this state of affairs is normal. Change is

always uncomfortable. Resistance to change can

take many forms, including efforts to sabotage

the diet while giving it lip service. There may

also be the temptation to cheat as the SCDer begins to feel better. Resist!

— Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

August 11, 2007

Marilyn,

Thank you for your help. The assistance is appreciated. However,

some of what I read below is confusing to me.

I understand your points regarding the raw milk and the correlation

with the cooked veggies, but then I am confused with regard to the

last portions of your response (which I know are taken from your book

notes and not specific to me, but they still are confusing me).

Everything I see refers to only eating heavily cooked veggies (which

already has the hair on my neck standing up, since my every instinct

is telling me to stay raw) for quite awhile into the diet.

But, at the end of your response, there is reference to eating both

raw or cooked veggies. I assume this portion of your book notes is

referring to the later stages of the diet when raw veggies are

introduced, but would like to clarify this.

IS it a problem to introduce raw fruits or veggies too soon in the

program? Or can we introduce them first raw, and if that proves to

be too much, then only do those particular fruits or veggies cooked.

Also, would it be better for us to take a 2 week " break " from milk

products altogether (including the 24 hour yogurt) and then

reintroduce the yogurt to be sure that, IF there is a negative

reaction we'll see it?

>

> Hello,

>

> My name is Mike Kaufman. My wife and I have a 4.5 year old son

with

> ASD (his name is Caeden).

>

> He was progressing very well until about his 1st birthday when he

was

> given antibiotics (for fluid in the ear - not an infection - didn't

> know enough to say no to the doctor back then) and his vaccinations

> the same day.

>

> He soon after had what was deemed an allergic reaction to the

> antibiotic. Then, he came down with Chicken Pox from the vaccine.

> Following that, the whole family came down with a severe flu

> including very high fevers.

>

> After a full six weeks of dealing with all of these issues, Caeden

> came out on the other end a totally different kid. All language

> stopped (he had developed quite a few words up to that point). He

> stopped chewing his food. His normal laugh and smiley personality

> were gone. He stopped interacting. Basically, everything stopped.

>

> We spent about a year waiting on our family doctor to see a need to

> refer us to someone to have this all looked into. In hindsight it

> was silly to wait for him to do something. We should have, but

> there's no going back now.

>

> About a year and a half ago, our family started eating primarily

> natural/organic foods and raw milk from grass fed/pastured cows and

> only sprouted/soaked grain breads. We still fudge more than I'd

> like, but our diet is 90% better than it was.

>

> We've seen some improvements in Caeden. He is gaining some

language,

> but it is still very minimal for his age (basically, " I want _____,

> please " ). In most cases, we'll use signs for the items he's asking

> for, which will " trigger " the word for him. Otherwise, he often

> can't come up with the right word for what he wants.

>

> He interacts MUCH more than he had and is more affectionate than he

> was. But, he still has alot of " strange " tendencies such as odd

> sounds and facial expressions that he makes, sensory seeking

> activities such as jumping off couches onto his knees or throwing

> himself on the floor (and numerous other actions directed at the

same

> result).

>

> It often takes considerable effort to get him to focus on us and

> listen to what we are saying, and most times he doesn't seem to

> really understand anyway.

>

> Caeden's stools are generally loose but not runny. It's hard to

tell

> if this is from lingering GI issues or simply because he eats so

much

> sprouted grain bread which seems to keep stools loose anyway. He

> gets gas sometimes, but not frequently, and does not seem to be in

> any pain or discomfort most of the time.

>

> We were sent info about the SCD diet by my sister-in-law and I must

> say that I'm encouraged by the prospects, but I have some questions.

>

> 1) Since Caeden has been drinking raw milk for quite some time now

> and SEEMS to be tolerating it pretty well, should we simply change

> him over to the 24 hour yogurt using the milk we currently are

> purchasing or should we take a " break " in the beginning and stick

to

> the dairy free SCD for a bit?

>

> 2) I've already been making yogurt for quite some time now, but

only

> fermenting for about 8 hours. If I do the 24 hour yogurt using

> the " SCD Sanctioned " Progurt starter, can I do it from the raw milk

> or do I have to " cook it " first? I have been doing raw milk yogurt

> without heating above 110 degrees and we've done well with that. I

> really hate to heat the milk and basically " pasteurize it " myself,

> when we spend so much to get good raw milk. Is the heating really

> necessary, and, if so, why? I have to admit I'll really need an

> awefully good reason to heat it in order to bring myself to do it.

> It really does seem like such a waste, considering how much more

> nutritionally valuable raw milk is to pasteurized.

>

> 3) I've read a great deal of information on numerous sites about

the

> SCD diet. I've printed off the legal/illegal list, understand the

> basic outline of what the diet is all about and have found a few

> websites offering recipes that I'll probably use to start. Armed

> with this information and some common sense, do I NEED to purchase

> the book? Quite frankly, with our additional food expenses and a

> slow down in my paychecks, if I don't really need the book, I'd

> rather not purchase it.

>

> 4) I don't purchase the book, can anyone outline for me the basic

> timeline for how this diet should go? It is my understanding that

it

> starts out pretty strict and then can be " loosened up " a bit over

> time depending upon how the child tolerates the introduction of new

> foods.

>

> Sorry for all the questions. I'm just really " green " to this and

> want to do it right so that we don't get off on the wrong track and

> mistakenly find that the diet " doesn't work " when, in fact, we just

> didn't do it right.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

> Mike Kaufman

>

August 12, 2007

I'm not Marilyn, but yes, definitely stop the milk. Liquid milk is

not allowed on SCD. In addition to gut bacteria feeding on the

milk's lactose, your son's symptoms could be partly due to casein

coming through a leaky gut. Start again with the 24-to-30-hour

fermented yogurt (the structure of casein is changed in the

fermentation process) made from milk which you have heated to 180F to

kill unwanted bacteria (Marilyn has explained this.) Start adding

the yogurt to your son's diet very slowly. (Start with 1/8 teaspoon

on the first day.) The probiotics in the yogurt can cause die-off and

you want to increase them slowly. If switching to organic milk that

is not raw would save you money, you might want to switch.

The SCD position is that well cooked, peeled and seeded veggies are

much easier to digest than raw. So while you are healing initially,

they are the best and you have to allow some healing to occur before

adding raw. Those who do the intro diet and add back in one food at

a time, looking for reactions, have the greatest success on the

diet. There is a " Stages " chart on the www.peacanbread.com website

that is just a guide (does not have to be followed to the letter) to

the introduction of foods, putting them in a general hierarchy of

digestibility.

The most advanced options such as kefir etc. are not really a part of

this list. I do not belong to any other SCD list so I can't say for

sure, but when you are " advanced " you might find that type of info on

the Long Island list or on Healing Crow.

Reading Breaking the Vicious Cycle is a requirement of this list, so

I am not going to tell you it's fine to not buy the book.

Best wishes,

mom to -12

SCD 4/2304

August 12, 2007

Hello Mike, I'm not a moderator, just a mom on the list, but I wanted to share

with you that our budget is also very limited so at the begining of the diet we

could not buy the book but we knew we needed to read it before starting the diet

so we used one from the library. We later found out it's so valuable and so

necessary that we got it as soon as we were able.

I also wanted to add that in the beginig of the diet the most important thing

is to look for ways to help yuor own body to heal. Even if raw vegetables have

more nutritional value than cooked ones, that won't make a big difference with a

gut that is not absorbing the nutrients properly. Besides, the cooked part is

not going to be forever. I think the sooner you allow your gut to heal, the

sooner you can add raw foods and really absorb their nutrients and THAT's going

to make a difference. I'll say give it a try. follow the directions from the

book and I'm sure you will be amazed of the great things this diet does for your

loved ones.

Blessings and welcome to your child's healing journey.

Ximena

julie46250 wrote: