can we talk poop?

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

It would be helpful to me to fully understand what everybody means with regard

to bowel movements as they are the benchmark of improvement and as another

listserve calls " trophies "

If we speak of diarrhea - is this the old kind I remember BEFORE IBD that is

brown and liquid- no formed stool whatsoever? If so - I rarely get this kind.

I used to have connected formed BMs that started getting " laced " with white

stuff 4 years ago when I was pregnant with my son. I didn't know then I was

beginning to get sick.

Then I got constipated - which was going 1 to several days without a bowel

movement and when it finally came it was small, sectioned and sometimes

difficult to pass.

During this time I was awake at night with serious abdominal pain.

Then I had my son and got REALLY sick - the constipation turned to a liquid

stool which does not look like classic diarrhea (as I mentioned at the top). It

is more light brown to flesh colored. It definately does not look like stool.

I don't even know to call it mucus - it's not liek nasal mucus, I'll tell you

that. It would happen on & off all day after eating and started to show blood

as well.

Now 3 years later, I have about 1-3 bms a day all of them in the am which

start as gas, liquid and then formed stool. I do not have much of this at all

during the day regardless of what foods I eat.

At night it's a whole other story! And I wonder if this is due to the slowing

of digestion and/or exhaustion for me with working part time and mothering two

little ones! After an SCD dinner - I find I cannot have any snacks at all. I

wake up in the night with the liquid bms.

So this is my theory - I wonder if the gut bugs get all " freaky " at night - my

intuition says limit their fuel for evening fermentation activities. so that's

what I'm doing with moderate success.

So anyway - that's my poop story and I'm sticking to it (ha ha). Anyone else

have any wisdom to shed? I'm finding it very difficult to measure success or

failure because I don't have diahrrea and I'm not sure what is causing the

irregular bowel movements - food intolerance, lack of healing or overgrowth of

bacteria or all of the above but it's sure hard to pinpoint.

Liz

---------------------------------

Got a little couch potato?

Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

<<It would be helpful to me to fully understand what everybody means

with regard to bowel movements as they are the benchmark of

improvement and as another listserve calls " trophies "

>

> If we speak of diarrhea - is this the old kind I remember BEFORE

IBD that is brown and liquid- no formed stool whatsoever? If so - I

rarely get this kind.>>

Yes, it may also colour the toilet water.

<<I used to have connected formed BMs that started getting " laced "

with white stuff 4 years ago when I was pregnant with my son. I

didn't know then I was beginning to get sick.>>

" White stuff " - maybe mucous?

<<Then I got constipated - which was going 1 to several days without

a bowel movement and when it finally came it was small, sectioned and

sometimes difficult to pass.

>

> During this time I was awake at night with serious abdominal pain.

>

> Then I had my son and got REALLY sick - the constipation turned

to a liquid stool which does not look like classic diarrhea (as I

mentioned at the top). It is more light brown to flesh colored. It

definately does not look like stool. I don't even know to call it

mucus - it's not liek nasal mucus, I'll tell you that. It would

happen on & off all day after eating and started to show blood as

well.>>

If it is liquid I believe it would still qualify to be called

diarrhea. The colour is reflective of what is going on in your GI

tract - microbial overgrowth, mucous production etc...

<<Now 3 years later, I have about 1-3 bms a day all of them in the am

which start as gas, liquid and then formed stool. I do not have much

of this at all during the day regardless of what foods I eat.>>

<<At night it's a whole other story! And I wonder if this is due to

the slowing of digestion and/or exhaustion for me with working part

time and mothering two little ones! After an SCD dinner - I find I

cannot have any snacks at all. I wake up in the night with the

liquid bms. >>

Enzyme production slows as we get older and digestion slows down at

night. Some of the evening snacks maybe feeding nasties - giving you

diarrhea. You may need to eat more food earlier in the day and less

later in the day. Which goes back to what my mom always said: start

the day with a healthy breakfast

<<So this is my theory - I wonder if the gut bugs get all " freaky " at

night - my intuition says limit their fuel for evening fermentation

activities. so that's what I'm doing with moderate success.>>

They are probably freaky because you are better able to digest food

earlier in the day and starving them but at night as digestion slows

there is some food for them. It may also depend on what kind of

late evening snack you are having.

The gas followed by liquid stool in the a.m. is probably the

continuation of the evening diarrhea.

<<So anyway - that's my poop story and I'm sticking to it (ha ha).

Anyone else have any wisdom to shed? I'm finding it very difficult

to measure success or failure because I don't have diahrrea and I'm

not sure what is causing the irregular bowel movements - food

intolerance, lack of healing or overgrowth of bacteria or all of the

above but it's sure hard to pinpoint.>>

What foods are you eating and how are they prepared? How long have

you been on the diet?

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs PCOD 22yrs

mom of E & D

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila:

Couple more clarifications - see below:

> If we speak of diarrhea - is this the old kind I remember BEFORE

IBD that is brown and liquid- no formed stool whatsoever? If so - I

rarely get this kind.>>

Yes, it may also colour the toilet water.

>>Is it diarrhea if it doesn't color the water? Or is that just mucus?

<<I used to have connected formed BMs that started getting " laced "

with white stuff 4 years ago when I was pregnant with my son. I

didn't know then I was beginning to get sick.>>

" White stuff " - maybe mucous?

>>That's what I think. The midwife said, " wait, it'll go away when your baby

is born " and we all know the end of that story.

If it is liquid I believe it would still qualify to be called

diarrhea. The colour is reflective of what is going on in your GI

tract - microbial overgrowth, mucous production etc...

>>What color means what?

<<Now 3 years later, I have about 1-3 bms a day all of them in the am

which start as gas, liquid and then formed stool. I do not have much

of this at all during the day regardless of what foods I eat.>>

<<At night it's a whole other story! And I wonder if this is due to

the slowing of digestion and/or exhaustion for me with working part

time and mothering two little ones! After an SCD dinner - I find I

cannot have any snacks at all. I wake up in the night with the

liquid bms. >>

Enzyme production slows as we get older and digestion slows down at

night. Some of the evening snacks maybe feeding nasties - giving you

diarrhea. You may need to eat more food earlier in the day and less

later in the day. Which goes back to what my mom always said: start

the day with a healthy breakfast

>>yeah, last night I was starving but reminded myself how I was not on the

toilet and would see good results anyway and I made it through ok. this am it

was ok.

<<So this is my theory - I wonder if the gut bugs get all " freaky " at

night - my intuition says limit their fuel for evening fermentation

activities. so that's what I'm doing with moderate success.>>

They are probably freaky because you are better able to digest food

earlier in the day and starving them but at night as digestion slows

there is some food for them. It may also depend on what kind of

late evening snack you are having.

>>any ideas for the best evening snack - ie the least desired by the bugs?

The gas followed by liquid stool in the a.m. is probably the

continuation of the evening diarrhea.

>>even after it stopped while I slept?

<<So anyway - that's my poop story and I'm sticking to it (ha ha).

Anyone else have any wisdom to shed? I'm finding it very difficult

to measure success or failure because I don't have diahrrea and I'm

not sure what is causing the irregular bowel movements - food

intolerance, lack of healing or overgrowth of bacteria or all of the

above but it's sure hard to pinpoint.>>

What foods are you eating and how are they prepared? How long have

you been on the diet?

>>I started the diet early August with my symptoms in remission from 20 mg of

Pred so I quickly moved through the food list with great energy and happiness.

Then as I tapered to the 10 mg level I was eating the yogurt and saw increased

bleeding at that time. Since then, I have been on the basic intro diet since

Aug 30th (only cooked begining veggies, proteins, applesauce according to the

food intro chart on pb.com). Seems like I've made a tiny bit of progress - I'm

not letting it get me down because the diet really makes sense to me. I just

wish I could eat all the good foods I ate in the beginning because it was so

nutritionally sound! This limited protein plus string beans, carrots and

zuccini is not varied enough to feel like I'm nourishing myself.

I had a run of migraines so bad that I stopped taking medication yesterday -

funny - today my am stool is completely different without the Pentasa. Since I

had a reaction to the Asacol I wonder if this is part of my illness right now.

I'm going to give it a few days. I know the Pentasa hasn't helped lately so I

can't hurt.

Liz

---------------------------------

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

<<> Couple more clarifications - see below:

>

> > If we speak of diarrhea - is this the old kind I remember BEFORE

> IBD that is brown and liquid- no formed stool whatsoever? If so - I

> rarely get this kind.>>

>

> Yes, it may also colour the toilet water.

> >>Is it diarrhea if it doesn't color the water? Or is that just

mucus?>>

Unformed, soft and or loose stool can be considered diarrhea.

> <<I used to have connected formed BMs that started getting " laced "

> with white stuff 4 years ago when I was pregnant with my son. I

> didn't know then I was beginning to get sick.>>

>

> " White stuff " - maybe mucous?

> >>That's what I think. The midwife said, " wait, it'll go away

when your baby is born " and we all know the end of that story.

> If it is liquid I believe it would still qualify to be called

> diarrhea. The colour is reflective of what is going on in your GI

> tract - microbial overgrowth, mucous production etc...

>

> >>What color means what?>>

Colour can indicate what foods you are eating, what foods you aren't

eating, what foods you are digesting well and which you aren't. Some

stool colors can indicate microbial problems.

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/cs/otherdiseases/a/stoolcolors.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stool-color/AN00772

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/stool_color.htm

<<Enzyme production slows as we get older and digestion slows down at

> night. Some of the evening snacks maybe feeding nasties - giving

you diarrhea. You may need to eat more food earlier in the day and

less later in the day. Which goes back to what my mom always said:

start the day with a healthy breakfast

<<<yeah, last night I was starving but reminded myself how I was not

on the toilet and would see good results anyway and I made it through

ok. this am it was ok.>>

Good stuff

<<<So this is my theory - I wonder if the gut bugs get all " freaky " at

> night - my intuition says limit their fuel for evening fermentation

> activities. so that's what I'm doing with moderate success.>>

>

> They are probably freaky because you are better able to digest food

> earlier in the day and starving them but at night as digestion

slows > there is some food for them. It may also depend on what kind

of > late evening snack you are having.

<<any ideas for the best evening snack - ie the least desired by the

bugs?>>

Until you get a further reduction in gut buggies (starve them out) it

may be best to either avoid late night snacks or keep them very easy

to digest, as the foods from the intro. When I had symptoms but

wanted something at night I'd have a boiled egg/overeasy egg. Not

exciting but filled the hunger gap.

<<The gas followed by liquid stool in the a.m. is probably the

> continuation of the evening diarrhea.

>

> >>even after it stopped while I slept?>>

Dp you mean that there was still liquid stool even if you ate no

snack at night. If yes, you didn't have the evening diarrhea so that

is one less bowel movement which will allow for better absorption of

some nutrients - it just may take more time.

<<What foods are you eating and how are they prepared? How long have

> you been on the diet?

>

> >>I started the diet early August with my symptoms in remission

from 20 mg of Pred so I quickly moved through the food list with

great energy and happiness. Then as I tapered to the 10 mg level I

was eating the yogurt and saw increased bleeding at that time. Since

then, I have been on the basic intro diet since Aug 30th (only cooked

begining veggies, proteins, applesauce according to the food intro

chart on pb.com). Seems like I've made a tiny bit of progress - I'm

not letting it get me down because the diet really makes sense to

me. I just wish I could eat all the good foods I ate in the

beginning because it was so nutritionally sound! This limited

protein plus string beans, carrots and zuccini is not varied enough

to feel like I'm nourishing myself.>>

Try removing the string beans for a day or two to see if that helps.

They may be slowing down your progress. Some have trouble with all

legumes.

<<I had a run of migraines so bad that I stopped taking medication

yesterday - funny - today my am stool is completely different without

the Pentasa.>>

Different - how? better, worse ...?

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I can't tell you how much it means to have someone try and figure out the

intracacies of this disorder with me...who else understands?

To continue answering the questions below:

> >>Is it diarrhea if it doesn't color the water? Or is that just

mucus?>>

Unformed, soft and or loose stool can be considered diarrhea.

>>Even if it has no color or is really light?

> <<I used to have connected formed BMs that started getting " laced "

> with white stuff 4 years ago when I was pregnant with my son. I

> didn't know then I was beginning to get sick.>>

>

> " White stuff " - maybe mucous?

>>Perhaps - it seems most likely.

<<The gas followed by liquid stool in the a.m. is probably the

> continuation of the evening diarrhea.

>

> >>even after it stopped while I slept?>>

Dp you mean that there was still liquid stool even if you ate no

snack at night. If yes, you didn't have the evening diarrhea so that

is one less bowel movement which will allow for better absorption of

some nutrients - it just may take more time.

>>Yes, no snack and liquid stool in the am upon waking. Are you saying that's

progress? It seems like decrease in loose stool (ie stopping the evening D)

which will eventually clear out the am D as well as the gut bugs die out. By

the way - could headaches be an indicator of the die off? I thought maybe they

were due to limited nuturients in the intro diet.

<<I had a run of migraines so bad that I stopped taking medication

yesterday - funny - today my am stool is completely different without

the Pentasa.>>

Different - how? better, worse ...?

>>Well, it's been a week I think since I stopped the Pentasa. The D has

decreased- but my BMs have turned totally constipated and I show blood every

day now . I go 3+ days with no formed BM now - before it was every day -

urgent and fast.

Perhaps it's my system righting itself..I'm going to give it a chance to

balance out. When I do have BM the mucus is gone so that seems an improvement.

I'm just on 5 mg Pred, scdophilus,s boulardi and multivitamin right now. I'm

going to read the constipation section now!

But the increased bleeding is a bit disheartening...I just keep praying I'm on

the right track. At least there's no pain!

Liz

UC/?CD 3.5 yrs SCD 1 month

PS - what's PCOD?

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

---------------------------------

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!

FareChase.

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

<<Is it diarrhea if it doesn't color the water? Or is that just

> mucus?>>

>

> Unformed, soft and or loose stool can be considered diarrhea.

>

> >>Even if it has no color or is really light?>>

Yes, just light colored diarrhea.

<<<The gas followed by liquid stool in the a.m. is probably the

> > continuation of the evening diarrhea.

> >

> > >>even after it stopped while I slept?>>

>

> Dp you mean that there was still liquid stool even if you ate no

> snack at night. If yes, you didn't have the evening diarrhea so

that

> is one less bowel movement which will allow for better absorption

of

> some nutrients - it just may take more time.

>

> >>Yes, no snack and liquid stool in the am upon waking. Are you

saying that's progress? >>

Yes

<<It seems like decrease in loose stool (ie stopping the evening D)

which will eventually clear out the am D as well as the gut bugs die

out. By the way - could headaches be an indicator of the die off?>>

Yes, especially reported by adults.

<< I thought maybe they were due to limited nuturients in the intro

diet.>>

Possibly limited carbs for those who don't consume enough of the

legal intro carbs but more often it is die off.

<<<<I had a run of migraines so bad that I stopped taking medication

> yesterday - funny - today my am stool is completely different

without > the Pentasa.>>

>

> Different - how? better, worse ...?

>

> >>Well, it's been a week I think since I stopped the Pentasa.

The D has decreased- but my BMs have turned totally constipated and

I show blood every day now . I go 3+ days with no formed BM now -

before it was every day - urgent and fast. >

> Perhaps it's my system righting itself..I'm going to give it a

chance to balance out. When I do have BM the mucus is gone so that

seems an improvement. I'm just on 5 mg Pred, scdophilus,s boulardi

and multivitamin right now. I'm going to read the constipation

section now!>>

Many report that at the beginning of the diet their symptoms swing

back and forth between D and C.

<<But the increased bleeding is a bit disheartening...I just keep

praying I'm on the right track. At least there's no pain!>>

No pain is a good sign.

Could the bleeding be from hemmerhoids? If it gets worse or does not

start to improve let me know.

<< Liz

> UC/?CD 3.5 yrs SCD 1 month

>

> PS - what's PCOD?>>

PCOD stands for Poly Cystic Ovarian Disease. My PCOD is now under

control for the first time with the diet!

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and