Holy Hand Flapping!!

[Guest guest]

Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

(the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

Thanks

Cindy

Mom to and scd 6 months

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindy,

It does sound like die off. Congratulations!

You might want to decrease the amount of yogurt if the die off

reactions are making you or your children miserable.

Mimi

> Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

> flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

> holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

> (the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

> for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

> happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

> this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

> just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

> yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

[Guest guest]

Cindy,

If you're not sure this is die-off, one thing to just keep in the back of your

mind is that the probiotics in the yogurt can start dissolving calcium oxalate

crystals, if those are present. That's a GOOD thing, in a way... but wait.....

We believe this is what happened to my daughter the first time she was on SCD,

resulting in increased, more severe seizures. Thing is, calcium gets

released... which is very stimulating... and is just floating around in the

body, stirring up trouble, if the levels of vitamin A, D and K are not up where

they should be to tell the bones and teeth to absorb it. (Vitamin K protocol is

worth checking into).

I've seen lots of kids on SCD go hyper or start stimming like made with

introduction of probiotics or increases in yogurt. Citrate minerals can also

dissolve those crystals. I found out I personally had this going on when I

started taking magnesium citrate right before bed, and ended up being wide awake

all night long, feeling like I'd had a full pot of coffee.... wired!! Now I'm

taking my CLO and vitamin K.

You might try giving him a bonus dose of magnesium glycinate (or orotate,

taurate, aspartate... just not citrate). Calcium opens the calcium channels

in the neurons and leaves them firing.... magnesium closes those channels.

Very calming.

Just thought I'd toss that out there...

Patti

Holy Hand Flapping!!

Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

(the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

Thanks

Cindy

Mom to and scd 6 months

[Guest guest]

I went to the Vitamin K protocol website and need simple clarification. I am

exhausted and overwhelmed at this point with the regression into more stimming

behavior and his out of control behaviors. I have studied so much in the last

couple of years that my mind is mush. I need a simple clarification on the

vitamin k thing.

It seemed to me that the problems with oxalates is that there is not enough vit

k to take it where it needs to go, right? I am wondering if this could be a

problem with my son, or maybe I'm grasping at straws. Anyway, it sounded like

they are basically short on vit K? So, what simple things can they do? It

sounded like someone with those problems should take magnesium, one of the types

other than mag citrate.

I was giving my son a little bit of calcium citrate powder, could that be a

problem? I know calcium is typically a problem with most ASD kids. He gets

almost no calcium through his diet currently due to food allergies and other

intolerances. It seems my son can't tolerate any kind of suplement that I've

tried yet of any kind so far (calcium, B, multi or CLO).

So, IF this could be a problem with my son, basically where would I start with

the Vit k thing?

Also, what would be the best solution for now to his possible calcium shortage?

He's been without much calcium at all for a couple

of years. He can't eat hardly any of the foods that are provide calcium also.

Bonita

son - SCD 4 months, Asperger's, ADHD, OCD, Dyslexia, food allergies, highly sal

intolerant

Holy Hand Flapping!!

Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

(the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

Thanks

Cindy

Mom to and scd 6 months

[Guest guest]

Thanks Patty for your insight. I think you have just alerted me to something

that was at the beginning of all this. At the onset of the noticable part of

the regressive autism both boys were drinking up to 100 ozs of milk a day.

This is quite a bit and I brought it to the pediatiricians attention. He

said it was fine because both boys were not growing well and were

underweight and he thought the milke would do them good.....well obviously

not, because they didnt grow an inch and started to lose their communication

skills. suffered from headaches and both boys had terrible belly aches.

They stopped responding to their names and began waking in the night...and

well you know, the whole nine yards. Shortly after we began the diet I

introduced magnesium citrate to them. It was bad. They were not eating any

casein at the time and I am not sure what happened with the entire magnesium

citrate thing. But reading your post explains the reaction.

However since starting SCD (no nut and no dairy) the boys have grown two

inches and have gained 5 pounds (six months later). Now since introducing

the yogurt we have some , well, a whole bunch of squealing and hand

flapping, however, all other behaviour is fine. I am just doing the intro

again for two days along with the reintro of the yogurt today at only one

tablespoon. Hand flapping was decreased and squealing too so I will keep

close watch on this. If calcium was a problem for these guys before, then I

really need to figure out how to do this so it doesnt become a problem

again. I have been on the vitamin k board as a lurker and havent started the

protocol yet as we have yet to see a DAN! doc. We are still waiting for an

opening. I would like to test for a vit k deficiency so I will have to look

into that. Vit D may be an issue with the days getting colder. We did spend

many hours outside this summer without sunblock or tshirts so we could get

the natural source.

Well my wheels are turning. I think I will just keep the yogurt at a

tablespoon for a while until I can get it all figured out. I did have some

serum calcium levels checked and they were on the high side. Please advice

on any tests that I should do to check if calcium is a problem or if other

vitamins are deficient.

Thanks again for your assistance,

Cindy

Holy Hand Flapping!!

>

>

> Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

> flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

> holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

> (the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

> for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

> happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

> this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

> just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

> yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

> Thanks

> Cindy

> Mom to and scd 6 months

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll try to put it in a nutshell... but beyond my short interpretation, it

would be best to join that group and ask questions there, plus read and re-read

her research paper, and maybe the archives of the group. That's what I had to

do. I know what you mean about your brain going to mush.... mine, too.

Basically, what she has uncovered in her research is that kids with autism are

all probably deficient in all the fat soluable vitamins, for various reasons. A

big reason is that if you have a wrecked gut, you can't convert beta carotene

from food into vitamin A.... and gut flora are responsible in part for

converting the vitamin K1 in our foods (in leafy greens, green beans, etc.) into

useable K2. If those gut flora are wiped out, you can eat all the leafy greens

in the world and not be able to get the K into useable form.

And, we are ALL probably deficient in vitamin D... unless we live in Florida,

or further south.... and spend plenty of time in the sun at high noon in summer

months.

Vitamin D and K, especially, are responsible for activating the bone proteins to

" switch on " and absorb calcium into the bones and teeth, where it belongs. If

those proteins are not activated, due to low fat-soluable vitamin levels, you

can take supplemental calcium till the cows come home and it will NOT go into

your bones...... but it WILL cause problems in the body.

Unmanaged calcium is DANGEROUS to the brain and other organs, so the body

attempts a protective response and binds the calcium up in crystal form.... with

oxalate, if it's present from food sources... or the body will MAKE oxalate in

the liver in order to bind up calcium! Even if kids are put on a low-oxalate

diet, if they're getting supplemental calcium, their little livers may still be

churning out oxalate in order to bind up that free calcium! (Calcium can also

be bound to other elements... I can't remember which right now... mush brain!)

The result is a body chock full of CaOx crystals..... in the brain, the soft

tissues (where they could be causing pain), and especially in the kidneys (where

they impair ones ability to detox). That's what kidney stones often are, by

the way.... CaOx crystals.

ASD kids aren't the only ones who have low levels of good gut flora and

fat-soluable vitamins!! My mother has been taking calcium supps for years....

and has now had two back surgeries to remove calcium deposits from her spine,

where they were impinging on nerves. AND, she still has osteoporosis, despite

all the calcium! I have finally talked her into starting the K protocol.

The K protocol is mainly cod liver oil, for A & D... because the vitamins are in

their natural form... easy to use, don't need to be converted. The A in CLO

heals and seals leaky guts! The vitamin K she recommends is K2... which does

not have to be converted in the body either. She has other support

nutrients.... DHA to help with vitamin A signaling; stuff to help the kidneys

and probiotics (her recommendation is not SCD legal... but those of us who

choose to remain strictly SCD are just going slower and using SCD yogurt and

legal probiotic supplements) to help break down oxalic acid waste, which can

irritate the gut.

She does not recommend supplementing with calcium, although she says a small

amount is fine if the child has no food sources of calcium. I personally prefer

food sources.... homemade almond milk, bone broth, SCD yogurt and cheese, leafy

greens, etc.

That's about all I can tell you here..... best go ask questions at that list,

as it's really beyond SCD.

I can tell you that my very short little girl (always in the bottom 10% for

height her entire life) has grown three inches taller in one year on the K

protocol... and her seizures are much shorter, less severe, stopping on their

own (no emergency drugs, no ambulance rides.... something we were used to

before).

best,

Patti , mom to Katera, age 11

Holy Hand Flapping!!

Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

(the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

Thanks

Cindy

Mom to and scd 6 months

[Guest guest]

Cindy,

The tests she recommends are listed in the files section at her site. You can't

really effectively test for K2 levels.... and K1 levels won't tell you what

you need to know. She recommends testing vitamin A and D levels... and

osteocalcin and some other things.... to give the bigger picture.

I don't personally know enough about interpreting the tests and such.... but if

you post those calcium levels on her list and ask her opinion, she will respond.

Over there, I am " just a mom " .... learning like everyone else.

You'd have to take all of her info to your DAN and get them to read it.... as

many of them don't know about it yet, though it's been well received by some of

the DANs, including the one works with in Oregon.

Patti

Re: Holy Hand Flapping!!

I would like to test for a vit k deficiency >>

<<I did have some

serum calcium levels checked and they were on the high side. Please advice

on any tests that I should do to check if calcium is a problem or if other

vitamins are deficient.

Thanks again for your assistance,

Cindy>>

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[Guest guest]

Patti,

Thanks. Just what I needed.

Bonita

Holy Hand Flapping!!

Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take off.

(the twin that is recovered is fine) but hasnt done this

for a long time. I guess it means the yogurt is working. Right. He is

happy though. If any expert can comment on this I would like to know if

this is ok. Like I said he is happy though. Just flap happy. Should I

just chalk this up to die off or should I go back to a table spoon of

yogurt. Dont want to mess this up. Is this good or bad.

Thanks

Cindy

Mom to and scd 6 months

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindy,

>

> Wow, just went in to lay my little guys down for bed and holy hand

> flapping. We just increased our yogurt today to half a cup and I mean

> holy hand flapping. My little looks like he is ready for take

off...> Mom to and scd 6 months>>>

When did you start the yogurt and how much did you start with?

You should probably reduce the amount of yogurt to at least what he was

having before today if not lower. When you increase the amounts again

it may help to go slower and to drip the yogurt. Dripping the yogurt

makes it easier to tolerate and may help reduce die off (less for the

liver to process). Also, trying the yogurt earlier in the day when

digestion is best or splitting up the amount in the morning and evening

may help.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and