Re: I can't chelate at all any more (ALA or DMSA, it doesn't matter)

[Guest guest]

>

> I have a reaction to the first pill with either ALA or DMSA. I get

> insanity symptoms, all sorts of side effects, I feel so hyper and over

> stimulated that I just have to quit. This had happened for months.

> I've probably have had 10 chelation errors in a row. I really feel

> like throwing in the towel on chelation. I've taken long breaks,

> doesn't help. Adjusting the dose timing isn't even relevant now

> because I have a reaction to the first pill.

What is the lowest dose you have tried of each chelator?

> Before I started having reactions to the first pill, the chelator

> would just crash on me for no reason at all. DMSA for instance would

> just give me crazy symptoms and crash on me in the middle of the dose

> timing, like at the 2 hour mark since my last pill.

What do you mean that DMSA would " crash " on you? If you mean that

symptoms cropped up after two hours, that could either suggest your

dose is too high, or possibly your interval is too long.

If you have not tried a very low dose (such as 6.25 mg of one

chelator), that would be worth a try. If it were me, I think I

would try taking that low dose as frequently as I could handle

(at least 2 hourly) for at least 3 days and see if that improves

the problems.

I am really not sure what is going on. It would probably help if

you post a longer description of what symptoms you are dealing

with overall, how many full rounds you did at what doses before

these problems developed, what supplements you are taking, and

any other relevant information.

--

[Guest guest]

> What is the lowest dose you have tried of each chelator?

12.5 mg is the lowest I've tried but it would be really difficult to

cut the pills any smaller. I suppose I could try 6.25 if I could find

ALA in 25 mg tablets. Right now I'm cutting 50 mg tablets into quarters.

> What do you mean that DMSA would " crash " on you? If you mean that

> symptoms cropped up after two hours, that could either suggest your

> dose is too high, or possibly your interval is too long.

>

> If you have not tried a very low dose (such as 6.25 mg of one

> chelator), that would be worth a try. If it were me, I think I

> would try taking that low dose as frequently as I could handle

> (at least 2 hourly) for at least 3 days and see if that improves

> the problems.

>

> I am really not sure what is going on. It would probably help if

> you post a longer description of what symptoms you are dealing

> with overall, how many full rounds you did at what doses before

> these problems developed, what supplements you are taking, and

> any other relevant information.

>

> --

Before all these problems cam out I was able to tolerate full rounds

of DMSA at 12.5 mg or 25 mg. I was able to do this for more than a

year without problems.

In a nut shell, my symptoms skyrocket at random points (doesn't seem

to follow any patterns). I feel so hyper and agitated that I can't

even function and I just quit chelating. Lowering the dose of the

chelator mainly just reduces the intensity of these problems but it's

usually out of control either way.

I've fiddled with the dose and timing of chelators quite a bit and

nothing seems to work. I don't think I can keep doing this. My short

term memory and autoimmune problems have taken a beating from all

these chelation problems.

I really think these problems stem from liver problems. I can't

tolerate much of any supplements anymore. I tried vitamin d the other

day and my symptoms and mood swings skyrocketed. I've had similar

reactions to a bunch of other supplements like DHEA and Forskolin. I

think it's my liver that's rejecting everything. All I take is zinc,

vitamin c, magnesium and fish oil.

Anti-oxidants, minerals and fats seem to be the only supplements I'm

not rejecting. Virtually every new supplement I have tried has caused

a very swift negative reaction.

[Guest guest]

Hi Scwflander

A few things

A) it could be adrenal/thyroid issues. FWIW (For what its worth)

Regular DHEA really messed me up. I believe its a sulfate issue if

you cannot handle regular DHEA , so you may want to try 7 Keto Dhea

(see AI page 111) Ace (adrenal cortex extract) had the same

effect.agitation. head fog anxiety. I amnot sure if forskolin can

irritate things

Kirkmans makes a 25 Mg capsule that you can pour out and break up.

You can order direct from them . I had to start out at 3-

4 mgs and even this caused me problems. I was up to 25 mgs last week

(actually was even at 50 mgs for a round or two) but maybe dumping a

lot just recently and stopped ALA and felt better right away..so I am

going to do a few rounds of dmps only. For me anyway ALA is very very

powerful and kicks my A$$ regularly so i stop for a bit

C) are you on dmsa or dmps, Andy has said here within the last month

that dmps is his choice, I am not sure if that is possible for you.

DMSA caused me a lot of problems

D) Can you try HC (hydrocortisone) whenever my aches/head problems

start there are ussually 1 of 4 things that calm things down

i) cutting dose or stopping the round

ii) taking my HC

iii) more recently I have found my temps take a hit (ie drop below

98.00) when i have been doing too much chelating. I have done the

wilson temp syndrome protocol and it has helped...now it just seems

to take a few days of a 7.50 mgs dose of T3 (liothyronine), at 2x a

day to bring everything back in sync. However AI recommndns dealing

with adrenal matters first, which it seems you are

I know just recently it was too much ALA that was messing up my head

really bad along with adrenals and thyroid. I stopped ALA and felt

100% better.

iv) increasing my magnesium/pysllium/to help with constipation

related problems

D) From what i understand, chelation related problems can creep up on

you,,ie everythings fine and then boom, you get hit with a

truck..This happened to me a couple of times in the first 4-5 months

Good luck

>

> 12.5 mg is the lowest I've tried but it would be really difficult to

> cut the pills any smaller. I suppose I could try 6.25 if I could

> find ALA in 25 mg tablets. Right now I'm cutting 50 mg tablets

> into quarters.

>

> Before all these problems came out I was able to tolerate full

> rounds of DMSA at 12.5 mg or 25 mg. I was able to do this for more

> than a year without problems.

> In a nut shell, my symptoms skyrocket at random points (doesn't seem

> to follow any patterns). I feel so hyper and agitated that I can't

> even function and I just quit chelating. Lowering the dose of the

> chelator mainly just reduces the intensity of these problems but

> it's usually out of control either way.

>

> I've fiddled with the dose and timing of chelators quite a bit and

> nothing seems to work. I don't think I can keep doing this. My

> short term memory and autoimmune problems have taken a beating from

> all these chelation problems.

>

> I really think these problems stem from liver problems. I can't

> tolerate much of any supplements anymore. I tried vitamin d the

> other day and my symptoms and mood swings skyrocketed. I've had

> similar reactions to a bunch of other supplements like DHEA and

> Forskolin. I

> think it's my liver that's rejecting everything. All I take is

> zinc, vitamin c, magnesium and fish oil.

>

> Anti-oxidants, minerals and fats seem to be the only supplements I'm

> not rejecting. Virtually every new supplement I have tried has

> caused a very swift negative reaction.

[Guest guest]

sorry to clarify on my last post. I was referring to thyroid

supplementation with T3 which is part of www.wtsmed.com protocol

I have found when things get bad my temps drop and do not know which is

the chicken or the egg, I actually think its too much stress from

chelation that tanks my thyroid (ie lowers my temps). The symptoms are

more head fog, more aches and pains and just generally miserable

per last post

" iii) more recently I have found my temps take a hit (ie drop below

98.00) when i have been doing too much chelating. I have done the

wilson temp syndrome protocol and it has helped...now it just seems

to take a few days of a 7.50 mgs dose of T3 (liothyronine), at 2x a

day to bring everything back in sync. However AI recommndns dealing

with adrenal matters first, which it seems you are

[Guest guest]

>

>

> sorry to clarify on my last post. I was referring to thyroid

> supplementation with T3 which is part of www.wtsmed.com protocol

> I have found when things get bad my temps drop and do not know which

is

> the chicken or the egg, I actually think its too much stress from

> chelation that tanks my thyroid (ie lowers my temps). The symptoms

are

> more head fog, more aches and pains and just generally miserable

>

- - - - - - - - -

: are you making sure your adrenals are being supported properly?

I took T3 by itself for quite a while; I would feel great for 4-5 weeks

and then - bad crash. I have to take a small dose of bio-identical

cortisol first thing in the morning and then around 2pm. I get it from

the clinic here in Houston - its presciption only. { I had to take

about 6mg twice a day to start resting the adrenals; gained about 15

lbs, but only had to do that for about 5 months; then tapered down;

this was a year before I discovered I had so much lead and mercury in

my system]

Doctors should always check your adrenals before prescribing any

thyroid medicine. They have to be working properly in order for you to

function well with the thyroid.

--DA

>

[Guest guest]

HI Donna

Thank you very much for your note;

ADRENALS

actually yes I have been on HC (hydrocortisone-20 mgs per day) for

the past 7 months along with 7 keto Dhea, pregnenolone (past 9

months) and I also added in Siberian Ginseng about 3 months ago and i

seemed to improve with this combination (AND I am sure chelation

helped)

THYROID

I just started into the T3 in early May 2008, but it has (I feel)

helped me tremendously

AI and this forum recommends adrenals to be treated first before

thyroid so thats why I waited another 6 months to treat thyroid after

working to get my adrenals in better shape.

I agree Drs are one trick ponies with their treatments. God forbid

they should ever become multi faceted and learn about the medicine

they are prescribing and its effects on the body

> : are you making sure your adrenals are being supported

> properly?

> I took T3 by itself for quite a while; I would feel great for 4-5

> weeks and then - bad crash. I have to take a small dose of bio-

> identical cortisol first thing in the morning and then around 2pm.

> I get it from the clinic here in Houston - its presciption only. {

> I had to take about 6mg twice a day to start resting the adrenals;

> gained about 15 lbs, but only had to do that for about 5 months;

> then tapered down; this was a year before I discovered I had so

> much lead and mercury in my system]

>

> Doctors should always check your adrenals before prescribing any

> thyroid medicine. They have to be working properly in order for

> you to function well with the thyroid.

> --DA