Suicidal again...

[Guest guest]

I have no family, no money, no place in the world to call home and

I'm dealing with mercury in my brain that takes me from " I can do

this " to looking around for places to hang a rope, in nothing flat.

Every member of my family is abusive. They keep me on the hook with

financial support, I have to cut ties, my bank account is overdrawn.

My ebay business is, after 9 years, just about to gounder. Just

looking for a job online last night sent me into this deep

depression. I can't handle stress. I have nothing to work with

here. I have been suffering all my life, I am deep in debt. I made

the mistake of sharing the salicylate discovery with my parents and

they hit me again and they're not overt. They're passive --

aggressive/abusive/manipulative. They are poison to me. All they do

is tell me how much they love me but I can be bleeding out in front

of them and they'll walk right over me.

I was going to go to this town in MT where I grew up, the only place

that remotely feels like home and my parents, starved for

narcissistic supply are thinking of moving back there where people

know and love them.

I can't fight anymore, there is no safety anywhere. No net. Not

anywhere.

The recession did me in. It's too much. Too much.

j.

[Guest guest]

It is hard to handle all of this when mercury is screwing with your

neurotransmitters. See Andy's suggestions to help you figure out

which type of depression you have and what you can try for it:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/15287

For the situational factors, talk therapy in some form (individual or

group) can be helpful.

For suicidality, you can usually find a suicide hotline in your local

phone book. In my area it is listed in the " Community Services "

section, under " Mental Health and Crisis Intervention " .

--

[Guest guest]

Hang in there Jen. I think gave you some good ideas. Many of us have

to put up with family members that don't understand, and it is really hard, but

that's when the support of these groups are great. But if you're having a super

bad day, then I agree with , find someone to call.

And did you say in another post that you were somewhere in northern MN on a lake

in a RV? I live in northern MN. Maybe you can email me privately and tell me

where you are? Up to you of course.--------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation Jen wrote:

I have no family, no money, no place in the world to call home and

I'm dealing with mercury in my brain that takes me from " I can do

this " to looking around for places to hang a rope, in nothing flat.

Every member of my family is abusive. They keep me on the hook with

financial support, I have to cut ties, my bank account is overdrawn.

My ebay business is, after 9 years, just about to gounder. Just

looking for a job online last night sent me into this deep

depression. I can't handle stress. I have nothing to work with

here. I have been suffering all my life, I am deep in debt. I made

the mistake of sharing the salicylate discovery with my parents and

they hit me again and they're not overt. They're passive --

aggressive/abusive/manipulative. They are poison to me. All they do

is tell me how much they love me but I can be bleeding out in front

of them and they'll walk right over me.

I was going to go to this town in MT where I grew up, the only place

that remotely feels like home and my parents, starved for

narcissistic supply are thinking of moving back there where people

know and love them.

I can't fight anymore, there is no safety anywhere. No net. Not

anywhere.

The recession did me in. It's too much. Too much.

j.

[Guest guest]

I think alot of us have had a time like this so don't think you're

alone. There is hope - always. When I've been unemployed (too many

times to count - oh yeah, I'm in that boat again!) I take a vacation.

Crazy,huh? I don't go anywhere (no money) but I DON'T look for a job,

think about a job etc. for a day, or if possible a week. There's no

point, really, when I'm that upset. And don't listen to the news

about the recession!! Many people do get jobs in a recession. I had

one poor friend that couldn't get a job during the boom. Its so

random.

And the family, you probably nailed it when you said they're

poison. They probably are full of poison. When someone in my family

has been unbelievably cruel, I realize its the toxins talking. Small

comfort but if you're sick, chances are they are too. You're just

lucky you figured it out.

Val

[Guest guest]

Hello Jen,

Hang in there ... Things can get better.. And it amazed me

how long I was able to keep living even though I felt

like dieing because of my awful health symtoms for such a

long time. That lasted 30 years and I made it , so you can

too. Our bodies are truly amazing ... their is alot of chance

of repair with the right help and support.

--- Nice perseptive of you Val.--ie that its the toxins from

family talking .Unfortunatley we do not always get the family

that we would like and that we need. I too had the big

fight over me going to see the psychiatrist for the help

that they figured was the only way I was going to return to

normal.. It took me many years of self therapy to overome

these affects . And dealing with both being ill , plus

toxic family is a double workload.

I wish Jen that you find coming up with the money you

need quickly .. Try not to worry about the smaller things in

life like maintaining that hair cut that your friends, and

family think you need. Just stick to finding the things that

help... What sort of things have you tried and with what

results.. ?? DO you have Andys book.?. Do you have a doctor

to see?? Or how about a support group with other people who

suffer as we do>??

Keep us posted .. and get a good night sleep.. Nanci

>

> And the family, you probably nailed it when you said they're

> poison. They probably are full of poison. When someone in my

family

> has been unbelievably cruel, I realize its the toxins talking.

Small

> comfort but if you're sick, chances are they are too. You're just

> lucky you figured it out.

>

> Val

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks,

No they have been tested. Mom had a little lead and chelated that

and when I asked if it was hard she had to think about it. Her

father was an alcoholic and she is just messed up. Very

narcissistic. Father is passive-aggressive/narcissistic, both

siblings are N's. There is no refuge anywhere. They are emotionally

toxic. Denial. Blame. Shame. When I told her I was suicidal, in

my 20's, and afraid that if I got on a fishing boat I would jump off

she said " Jump " and hung up on me. My sister too agreed with me once

when I called her for support that there is just " too much damage " .

She spent ten minutes trying to convince me that suicide was my best

option before realizing how sick that was and adding " But I'd cry at

your funeral with everyone else. "

No refuge. No net. I made the mistake of not walking away from my

family early like both my siblings. I have traveled solo to the

Sinai, I have laughed through kidney stones. I know how to buck up.

I can't take anymore.

j.

>

>

> I think alot of us have had a time like this so don't think

you're

> alone. There is hope - always. When I've been unemployed (too many

> times to count - oh yeah, I'm in that boat again!) I take a

vacation.

> Crazy,huh? I don't go anywhere (no money) but I DON'T look for a

job,

> think about a job etc. for a day, or if possible a week. There's

no

> point, really, when I'm that upset. And don't listen to the news

> about the recession!! Many people do get jobs in a recession. I

had

> one poor friend that couldn't get a job during the boom. Its so

> random.

>

> And the family, you probably nailed it when you said they're

> poison. They probably are full of poison. When someone in my

family

> has been unbelievably cruel, I realize its the toxins talking.

Small

> comfort but if you're sick, chances are they are too. You're just

> lucky you figured it out.

>

> Val

>

[Guest guest]

Eleven years ago, my mother had me dragged away from my own business

by the police. They showed up with their hands on their guns and

wouldn't even let me put on shoes. They strapped to me a gurney and

rolled me me down the sidewalk at the busiest intersection in town,

and, at my sickest, unable to speak above a whisper, I had to talk

myself out of a three day involuntary hold. Somehow I did. I hit the

road after that, terrified of any vehicle with a light on top for

months. I told her I was sick. I was covered in bruises and falling

down stairs and running into door frames and borderline narcoleptic.

My teeth were so loose I could wiggle them and it was almost

impossible to chew. My hands and feet were yellow. My skin hurt.

All fillings were out ten years ago. 8 months of chelation done.

I've had decades of counseling. Did four years of really hard work,

distanced from my family, in my late 30's. Started speaking truth,

started protecting myself, cut ties with my sister. 41 now and I

made the mistake of reconnecting with my parents this last year. I

know what's what, but it doesn't change how toxic they are to me, how

their dismissal and blame game affects me. It's like dealing with a

couple of addicts. Love love love you, followed by total emotional

abandonment. Like being left home alone for three weeks with half a

loaf of bread without explanation. There has always been a direct

relationship between how healthy I am, and how far away from them I

am.

I feel like a gutted fish all over again. I can't get off my knees,

and am so in debt, I'll be crawling out of this hole, alone, in my

rig, until I'm 50. I'm not trying to be dramatic, I just don't see

the point of doing this anymore. I was already worn out by high

school. I told everyone I was going to just sell coconuts on a beach

somewhere.

I cut my own hair. There are no friends, there is no family...and I

can't remember the last time I worried about a small thing.

I have no issurance and trust my own research more than any doctor

I've ever found anyway. I made great gains in those ten years, on my

own and this year, when I hit the road, it was a perfect storm of a

bad economy, high gas prices, savings depleted buying/moving in to my

rig. I've climbed enough mtns for the a lifetime. I can't climb

another. I know it always gets better, but I also know that it

always gets worse again after that. There is no in-between for me.

I am ok, or I am suicidal. I've been gutting this crap out for

decades and I'm just ready to go to sleep. I have paid my dues. If

there was anything to cling to it would be another matter. I'm

strong-willed and courageous and resourceful as hell, the person

everyone else goes to when they're in crisis, even when I'm on the

mat myself, but this is ridiculous.

I don't have Andy's book. If this stuff just made me sick, or tired,

no problem. What I can't handle is hour after hour of fixating on

driving in front of a truck. I tried inositol last week and had the

anxiety attack right after that and don't know if that was salicylate

withdrawal or the inositol/choline.

Support group? Everyone I've ever known has some security somewhere.

A friend, a family member, insurance, money in the bank -- parents or

kids. And if I had any one of those things, I wouldn't be this

hopeless right now. " Courage is the price that life exacts for

granting peace. " I've been courageous for 41 years. It's

overrated.

I'm either in the fight or I'm in trouble. I skip the squeaky wheel

part. If I'm squeaking, I'm already spent.

Will milk thistle in any way make this depression worse?

j.

>

> >

> > And the family, you probably nailed it when you said they're

> > poison. They probably are full of poison. When someone in my

> family

> > has been unbelievably cruel, I realize its the toxins talking.

> Small

> > comfort but if you're sick, chances are they are too. You're just

> > lucky you figured it out.

> >

> > Val

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You know, people will support me on line but not in person. I have a

counselor personality and every person I'm around quickly comes to

see me as someone who can support them, not someone who could use

support. Honestly, 90% of the people I meet say to me, within a week

of meeting them, " I've never told anyone this but..... " My mother

turned me into her personal counselor (and doctor). Both my parents

used me as a marriage counselor. People who are much healthier, and

financially secure than I am talk my ear off about how stressed out

they are, about their spouses, their kids, about how the purchase of

their $600,000 house is going to make things tight for awhile.

And when I ask for help, when I tell people I'm in crisis, they

either don't believe me or they resent me for not being the strong

person they need me to be. I could be bleeding out on a public

street and people would think twice about calling for help. Everyone

sees me as so strong that they think I'm being dramatic when I say

I'm in really bad shape. So when you say " support group " it triggers

a cynical reaction in me, because I'm always the person doing the

supporting.

They made me talk to the shrink I'd only seen for 45 minutes -- ever -

- that day in the hospital, before they would let me leave (it was

her idea to have me dragged away by the police for concluding the

medication was making me toxic, and it was) and even SHE was

saying " Well, what am *I* supposed to do now, ? " ....What are

YOU supposed to do? I just got dragged away from my business by men

with guns and threatened with involuntary committment....I'm so sick

and so traumatized the only way I can imagine supporting myself after

this is by driving to Vegas and selling myself on the street. Are

you kidding me???? What are YOU supposed to do?

People don't take care of me. I don't know why. They just don't. My

sister, when she told me that suicide was my best option six years

ago, told me that the only reason she " succeeded " was that she

wasn't " burdened by my integrity " .

The weak can't help the strong.

j.

[Guest guest]

Honestly, 90% of the people I meet say to me, within a week

> of meeting them, " I've never told anyone this but..... "

Huh, that's funny - alot of people always confide in me too. And

trying to convince anybody that I don't feel well is usually a waste

of time for me too.

VAl

[Guest guest]

I'm truly feel for you particularly as the people you expect to help you can

seem to be against you please let them know your true feelings if you have'nt

done so already maybe they don't realise how devastated you feel especially as

it seems they feel you are the strong one. Despair is one of the worst and

loneliest feelings you can have but from the replies you have had I hope you

realise that there are many of us that care and truly wish that you will get

through this and come out more than OK at the other end.

 

Kenny

 

 

Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7.

http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset

[Guest guest]

I remember someone else having problems with milk thistle.

Sorry cannot add any more.

Yep there are alot of people out there who run away from the

sick.. Look at the generation 100 , yes even my parents

generation.. no one would mention to even their " freinds "

that they had the big C , cancer.. Sure we have evolved in

technology but spiritually we are far behind as far as love

goes..

You are not alone Jen... I always try and use my courageous

side of myself to dream of the possibilities of helping all

the ones who want and need the help . I stuck to exploring

the spiritual side of me as my big adventure while being

sick.. Life should have some adventures in it.. hang onto

your passions Jen..IT can get alot better.. I mean alot.

THis is a wonderful healing tool we have come upon, and

thanks to the world wide web we can get some help that we

need.

Nanci

>

> Honestly, 90% of the people I meet say to me, within a week

> > of meeting them, " I've never told anyone this but..... "

>

>

> Huh, that's funny - alot of people always confide in me too. And

> trying to convince anybody that I don't feel well is usually a

waste

> of time for me too.

>

> VAl

>

[Guest guest]

exact same here. I think we spend too much of our limited energy trying to

'appear' normal and when we fool the world we are upset when they don't beleive

we need help.

I'm putting my eggs in the chelation basket for all my issues, if it can resolve

any of them, I'll have more resources to work with to live with whatever I have.

So onward I go towards the chelation road. Mercury can cause us to see life

very distorted so honestly I put a lot less faith anymore in what I 'see' around

me, and try to focus on the facts and concentrate on being hopeful about

chelation.

Meantime I've had to learn to throw off relationships that are too draining or

treat me with a lack of respect for my situation. I've learned you can't get

help from others by 'giving help'. It does'nt work. It just attracts parasites.

Marcia

Re: Suicidal again...

Honestly, 90% of the people I meet say to me, within a week

> of meeting them, " I've never told anyone this but..... "

Huh, that's funny - alot of people always confide in me too. And

trying to convince anybody that I don't feel well is usually a waste

of time for me too.

VAl

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

I'm so sorry to hear how hard this has all been. My family isn't much better

than yours, won't have anything to do with me, they want to believe there was

never anything wrong with me so they didn't have to care of be of any help,

easier to cut me off and throw me away, so I know that part of your pain. In my

case life is easier and less painful to let them go (parents long dead, but

siblings carry on the family 'attitude' towards me). I wish there was an easy

solution but you've come too far to know there is not. You have also come too

far and learned too much to give up now! Please keep reading here, learning

more about the Cutler chelation methods and others experiences here. I've found

more hope on this and the AMC list than all the other medical lists I've been on

the last 10 yrs.

Keep fighting for your slice of life!

Marcia

Thanks,

No they have been tested. Mom had a little lead and chelated that

and when I asked if it was hard she had to think about it. Her

father was an alcoholic and she is just messed up. Very

narcissistic. Father is passive-aggressive/narcissistic, both

siblings are N's. There is no refuge anywhere. They are emotionally

toxic. Denial. Blame. Shame. When I told her I was suicidal, in

my 20's, and afraid that if I got on a fishing boat I would jump off

she said " Jump " and hung up on me. My sister too agreed with me once

when I called her for support that there is just " too much damage " .

She spent ten minutes trying to convince me that suicide was my best

option before realizing how sick that was and adding " But I'd cry at

your funeral with everyone else. "

No refuge. No net. I made the mistake of not walking away from my

family early like both my siblings. I have traveled solo to the

Sinai, I have laughed through kidney stones. I know how to buck up.

I can't take anymore.

j.

.

[Guest guest]

jen

i think you are right in tryng to get to Montana to be around the

closest thing to family. I have found that being around critical non

supportive people is the worst possible thing for us with fragile

emotions, it reinforces and creates more mental anquish...

crash on a friends floor if you can and once you have some support,

other things will start to fall into place... and no counselling

by Jen

I know the feeling of wanting to give up but you cannot do that

although it does seem like an easier option many times. I found

myself about a year ago for a few months being fixated on reading

obituaries as a way of validating suicide...seeing people younger

than i that were dead from cancer/violence/illnesses was my way of

saying well if its my time its my time...but this was the mercury

taking over

In Ai Andy says something to the effect that no pyscho babbling Fool

is going to talk the mercury out of your cells which is what they

would need to be doing to cure you

I did not want to die but like you was so bone tired of fighting and

getting worse with bad, incompetent and outright hurtful dr's and

protocols..that it seemed like the best/final choice.

Like you, my mind was so messed up i was not thinking straight

so I think you have to be able to get this thought through to your

inner self. ..ie that this too shall pass....and that these thoughts

are from the poison not you..with what you have gone through you are

a warrior..just a sick one

this group and the protocol got me through the worst of time..i could

see that there were many others with suicidal thoughts and reading

the book was validating... an " ah ha " moment..in that this is why i

want to jump off a bridge

I have an extra book on AI and the Hair Tests if you would like, you

can have

Having a restful sleep and a calm stable environment will I think

help immensely...

Think of those things that you enjoy, the biking the hiking and

repeat...I can/will get better and then there will be

" hell to pay "

>

> You know, people will support me on line but not in person. I have

> a counselor personality and every person I'm around quickly comes

> to see me as someone who can support them, not someone who could

> use support.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry this is long.

My heart goes out to you, my friend. No one understands unless they have been

there. I

have already prayed for you before completing this message. While I have not

gotten to a

suicidal point, I have struggled hard with despair and hopelessness, lack of

funds, debt,

and physical debilitation. After reading your story, I realize my desire to

share my

struggles w/my mom will end up the same. I imagine her listening

non-judgementally,

giving the empathetic ear and moral support I need, but I know how her response

will be

in reality. Just like your mom's. They jump to their own conclusions without

knowing the

facts. I tell myself, " If they just knew what was wrong . . . " But telling them

will make no

difference--they just cling to their personal theories. Distancing myself from

them has

aided my healing, too.

It hurts, I know. Reading your story makes me appreciate the few people I am

blessed to

have on my side. But not family members.

You said, " I don't have Andy's book. "

My dear, dear friend. Please get it!!! Everything I've ever tried that has

worked came from

that book!!!

I wish I could mail you some supplements or something. If you don't have his

book, how

do you know which supplements will help you? These supplements are HUGELY

important

if you take mercury seriously. As I'm sure you must know.

Please believe me. My greatest suffering was during the time when I didn't take

Andy's

supplementation recommendations seriously. Then when I hit rock bottom, I

decided to

start the essential fatty acids, antioxidants, B-vitamins, magnesium,

neurotransmitters,

etc, etc., Because I just HAD to start feeling better and thought for once,

" Maybe he's right. Maybe I really do need all these supplements. " I have turned

around a

lot of issues with the supplements. I no longer see them as optional.

Want a mood-lifter tip? (I know--what works for one person doesn't always work

for

everyone, but it's worth a try). Liver. Eating good quality liver just once

boosted my mood

quite noticeably within 24 hours. I believe it's all the choline that liver

contains. And liver's

just about the cheapest meat you can buy! Just don't overcook it and add plenty

of lemon

juice.

Lecithin. 5-HTP. Gotu Kola liquid extract. DMAE. Hydrocortisone. Taurine. These

are just a

few that have helped me and my husband with our personal mercury-induced he__.

But

everyone's brain is a little different, so that's why getting the book can help

you see what

works best for you. Andy's supplement descriptions are right on the money, I'm

telling

you! Do look up that one link someone sent you--the supps for the various

different types

of depression.

[Guest guest]

If you can't afford supplements, eat liver regularly. That's not part of Andy's

protocol, that's

my adaptation of Andy's protocol. No less frequently than once a week. There are

many ways

to make liver more palatable. Check out the Weston A Price Foundation's website

and read

the article " The Liver Files. "

Liver has large amounts of all the vitamins and minerals that Andy's protocol

says are so

important for us mercury-toxic people, but before and during chelation.

Look it up, and you'll see I'm right!

Plus, the choline (an essential neurotransmitter) in liver boosts the mood along

with overalll

brain function. Buying liver's cheaper than buying Lecithin

(phosphatidylcholine). It's cheaper

than just about anything.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . I feel the love. It is much appreciated, even at

this point.

I have been fine-tuning my supplement intake for many years and find

it funny because I look at Andy's recommend list, posted here, and

it's almost identical to mine. Both in what he recommends, and the

amounts. There are a few things I've either not tried, or tried and

didn't notice a difference, but I'm sure there is always something

else. Supplements are truly everything. People are horrified by how

much I take, but I need them all. I need to look into lecithin

again. Selenium makes me feel terrible. Anyone else? I stopped

taking it years ago and get some in my garlic supplement. Probably

not enough but....

I cannot *bear* liver. I have tried so hard. Can't do it. But you

made me think, because I seem to *need* beef on a daily basis. I

assumed it's the iron, but maybe there is a choline component. Is

there choline in reg. hamburger??

I did look at the link for depression. Mine is seratonin for the

most part and I got some inositol/choline but had big anxiety after

taking it but think that was the withdrawl from the salicylates so

I'll try it again.

My parents are a different breed altogether. They believe me, and are

supportive and compassionate, then at some point, my mother will

snap, something I'm feeling will hit a button and she'll pull the rug

out from under me. Suddenly it's all about her and I'm on my own,

and my codependent father rarely breaks ranks. She's been that way

all my life. It's like living with an addict who loves you to pieces

then takes off on a three week bender. It does a real number on the

head. Lots of blame and shame, followed by the expectation that she

can just sweep it all under the rug without acknowledging anything.

We all really enabled her all her life by just letting this happen,

over and over. She's basically an alcoholic, minus the alcohol. What

makes it hard is that she's so nurturing and supportive and generous

when she's not " drunk " . Dad's very passive-aggressive but has

managed to apologize for a few things over the years. But as a team,

they're just toxic.

Oh man, I'm officially sick of talking about myself.

Jen

[Guest guest]

Jen

garlic is sulphur, as is MSM and Bromelain (enzymes). Many of us

experience redistribution problems with sulfur. I think it was a heavy

sulfur diet which really F'ed me up..lost a lot of weight and

increased head/depression problems

selenium can also I believe increase T3 or T4, but per AI it also is

supposed to render mercury inert (it does not chelate it)

> I need to look into lecithin

> again. Selenium makes me feel terrible. Anyone else? I stopped

> taking it years ago and get some in my garlic supplement. Probably

> not enough but....

>

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation , " Jen "

wrote:

Given the family/support issues, and the health issues, I cannot cope

> with the stress of money issues. That is the pin that holds the whole

> thing together. That comes out and the wheels come off. I also know I

> can no longer accept occasional financial support from my parents.

====Hi Jen

I've been following your posts and I hear you.

Thanks for sharing with us.

I was once in your boat , and sometimes still. The one thing that I had to

realise , was not to accept help , support and love that if it wasn't

unconditional, and with good intention. That was a pretty hard lesson. Even

now , if I suspect that the intention from the giver isn't pure or there are

possibly strings attached, I say thank you, but no thank you. Because that

is how I give , unconditional with good intent and no strings attached. It

is a very good feeling.

It is hard to accept support, that you could gain from in the short term, or

when you are in need, and you know it is conditional.

Accept to go without and don't accept it.

When I joined this group, at a time when I was also in dire need, I felt

the unconditionality of all the advice and support given and that from

strangers !

This is my suggestion to you to experience this unconditionality, Jen. You

don't have Andy's books. said it is a must to have the books as we

all know. offered you the books. Please accept them. You know they

are offered to you with good intent and unconditional.

Please contact to arrange for your no- strings- attached- books :-)

I also have not had contact with my family for 20 years and it has not been

an easy journey, and very alone. And this accepting and giving only

uncondionally is probably my number one survival tip.

You cannot change other people ( in your case your family). But when you

start declining their conditional help and support , you will make them

think. And maybe they will want to change themselves. So I guess, you can

change other people after all? :-)

Good luck to you Jen and I hope soon you'll be reading your own books. They

are priceless.

====Kai

wrote:

You said, " I don't have Andy's book. "

My dear, dear friend. Please get it!!! Everything I've ever tried that has

worked came from

that book!!!

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wrote:

> > I have an extra book on AI and the Hair Tests if you would like, you

> can have

>

>

>

>

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>

>