Re: Vegetarians and sulphur foods?

[Guest guest]

> > > I was just looking through the sulphur foods list and I really

> > don't

> > > know how to get enough protein being vegetarian if I do a test

> for

> > 2

> > > weeks.

>

> Also, there are some processed vegan food products high in protein:

> If you can tolerate wheat gluten, there is seitan (Japanese-style

> wheat meat), which I am including in my lunch today, and there are

> other wheat gluten products. There are rice protein supplements,

> which I have not used personally.

Thanks for this info, I am very limited as to what speciality foods

I can buy as I live in South Africa and in a town that really isn't

veggie firendly or even have a health shop within 2 hrs! I am able to

tolerate wheat so I will have to be inventive, I am going to wait 2

weeks to try it so that I can prepare for it and make sure I have

plenty.

>

> In general, the thinking among vegan nutritionists and MDs is that

> there is a cult of protein in our animal-food-centric society that

is

> unrelated to reality, and that most people do not need to make any

> special effort to get enough protein on a vegan diet. I don't know

> whether being metal toxic changes this.

>

The reason for the protein is that I need adrenal support and

therefore it's recommeneded to eat protein regular. I also feel

better with more protein and I don't eat as many carbs. If nuts,

grains, pearl barley are ok then I can also include them. I don't

find it a very comprehensive uulphur list as there are so many other

foods not listed either way. Perhaps a vegetarian or vegan list is

needed as we have a very different diet generally. I am also

underweight so need as much food as poss right now!

Thanks for the info, glad to know there's another veggie/vegan out

there on this protocol. It can also be difficult as find most people

recommend the animal glandulars etc or enzymes as being better but I

have been veggie all my life and will never change that.

[Guest guest]

It is very difficult to be a vegetarian, eat a low sulfur diet, and not die of

protein

malnutrition. Nuts other than peanuts are the only avaialble source of protein

in that case.

I don't have much experience with the wheat and rice protein supplements to know

what

they do to people who need low sulfur diets.

> > > > I was just looking through the sulphur foods list and I really

> > > don't

> > > > know how to get enough protein being vegetarian if I do a test

> > for

> > > 2

> > > > weeks.

> >

> > Also, there are some processed vegan food products high in protein:

> > If you can tolerate wheat gluten, there is seitan (Japanese-style

> > wheat meat), which I am including in my lunch today, and there are

> > other wheat gluten products. There are rice protein supplements,

> > which I have not used personally.

>

> Thanks for this info, I am very limited as to what speciality foods

> I can buy as I live in South Africa and in a town that really isn't

> veggie firendly or even have a health shop within 2 hrs! I am able to

> tolerate wheat so I will have to be inventive, I am going to wait 2

> weeks to try it so that I can prepare for it and make sure I have

> plenty.

> >

> > In general, the thinking among vegan nutritionists and MDs is that

> > there is a cult of protein in our animal-food-centric society that

> is

> > unrelated to reality, and that most people do not need to make any

> > special effort to get enough protein on a vegan diet. I don't know

> > whether being metal toxic changes this.

It does.

Also the vegan nutritionists are cult. Human protein requirements are difficult

to meet

without eating animal products. Getting enough protein is a smaller issue than

getting

'balanced' protein so that you do not become deficient in a few amino acids.

People with metabolic impairment and also adrenal stress do need a lot of

protein. As in

many other areas, the physiologic capability of the normal healthy person's body

to adapt

to whatever it runs into is far greater than a sick or toxic person.

> The reason for the protein is that I need adrenal support and

> therefore it's recommeneded to eat protein regular. I also feel

> better with more protein and I don't eat as many carbs. If nuts,

> grains, pearl barley are ok then I can also include them. I don't

> find it a very comprehensive uulphur list as there are so many other

> foods not listed either way.

Post the list of things you haven't found (and send me the post number

privately) and I will

tell you what category they're in if I know. It may help to discuss what they

are as local

names may vary from ones I'm familiar with in the US.

> Perhaps a vegetarian or vegan list is

> needed as we have a very different diet generally. I am also

> underweight so need as much food as poss right now!

If you will consider eating ONE meat product in small amounts, try making it

adrenal

cortex supplement and see if that lets you gain some weight and not need as much

protein. That might let you not need to eat more meat.

> Thanks for the info, glad to know there's another veggie/vegan out

> there on this protocol. It can also be difficult as find most people

> recommend the animal glandulars etc or enzymes as being better but I

> have been veggie all my life and will never change that.

OK.

Don't take my comments as moralizing, it is up to you what you are willing to

do. You

don't have to eat meat just because I'm limited in my understanding of how to

make other

suggestions that would work for you. Tell me what else you need to know and

I'll provide

whatever information I can.

Andy

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I was just looking through the sulphur foods list and I really don't

> know how to get enough protein being vegetarian if I do a test for 2

> weeks.

Usually 4 or 5 days is enough.

>

> It seems the only form of protein I would be able to eat is quinoa?

All nuts other than peanuts are low in sulfur. Peanuts are high.

>If

> I then find out I feel better on a low sulphur diet - then it looks

> like it would be impossible to get my protein being vegetarian and

> cutting out all beans, dairy products, lentils, soya, eggs etc.

>

> any advice? are there any other veggies out there who are on a low

> sulphur diet?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Josie

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to jump in here because I was vegetarian and was advised to begin

eating meat again due to being ill.  I had a serious case of anemia and eating a

vegetarian diet was making me sicker. It wasn't easy to do--I bawled the first

month of eating meat again. 

 

If it helps you, I say a prayer for the animal that gave its life for me so that

I could regain my health. 

 

Related to this are the vegetarian meals out there--many, many of them contain

hydrolyzed yeast or monosodium glutamate--two excitotoxins that will make hg

affected people worse.

 

Just my two cents.

Best of luck,

Robyn

 

 

~~~~~~~~

 

NOTE: Andy's comments have the arrows, beigetable's reply are beneath them.

 

> Human protein requirements are difficult to meet

> without eating animal products. Getting enough protein is a

smaller issue than getting

> 'balanced' protein so that you do not become deficient in a few

amino acids.

The American Dietetic Association' s position paper on vegetarian

diets disagrees, as do people like Walter Willet of Harvard. Amino

acid balance is an old concern that has supposedly been resolved with

more current research.

Is there any good evidence that the Weston Price people are right,

and the vegans are wrong, on the scientific merits? The mainstream is

often wrong, e.g., regarding mercury, but is not ALWAYS wrong, and

veganism is apparently supported these days by mainstream research,

which was far from the case a few decades ago.

> People with metabolic impairment and also adrenal stress do need a

lot of protein. As in

> many other areas, the physiologic capability of the normal healthy

person's body to adapt

> to whatever it runs into is far greater than a sick or toxic person.

Which could arguably be the reason why all the vegans and near-

vegans, including millions of people eating indigenous diets, haven't

dropped dead yet, if the Weston Pricers are right.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments but I have been vegetarian my whole life

(29years) and have always been very healthy, healthier than most meat

eaters until 5 yrs ago when I got sick with fibromyalgia (now think

its due to mercury poisning).

I currently eat spinach, lentils, brocolli, grains and other foods

high in iron, my iron levels have also been tested and are ok. I

think the downfall for most people turning veggie is when they have

been so used to eating meat that they don't consider other sources of

nutrition but I have never eaten it in the first place and will never

eat it no matter what.

We are omnivores, not carnivores therefore we can choose what we eat

and there is so much veggie food - it's just the sulphur diet that is

very limiting on protein for veggies. In fact I eat a lot healthier

and was always sick less than any of my meat eating friends. I'm

afraid I don't believe eating animals will make us any better unless

you don't have a balanced diet to start with or know enough about

nutrition to see what your foods contain.

I avoid msg and sweeteners etc and any other nasties and many

processed foods for a long time but was just enquiring about every

low sulphur foods for veggies. I'm still not sure the sulphur diet is

possible for veggies long term due to lack of protein from what I can

see and it may not be the right diet for me. I guess this subject is

getting a little off topic now so will end on that note.

Josie

> I wanted to jump in here because I was vegetarian and was advised

to begin eating meat again due to being ill.  I had a serious case of

anemia and eating a vegetarian diet was making me sicker. It wasn't

easy to do--I bawled the first month of eating meat again. 

>  

> If it helps you, I say a prayer for the animal that gave its life

for me so that I could regain my health. 

>  

> Related to this are the vegetarian meals out there--many, many of

them contain hydrolyzed yeast or monosodium glutamate--two

excitotoxins that will make hg affected people worse.

>  

> Just my two cents.

> Best of luck,

> Robyn

>  

>  

> ~~~~~~~~

>  

[Guest guest]

Here is my vegetarian story. .

Growing up I fussed about eating meat.. It was always so

grissly and did not turn me on. As long as I had some

condiment to go along with it , I got it down.

In university , having moved out of home, I became vegetarian..

Strict , but for cheese, and eggs . Five years later I got

ill. I tried raw foods diet, macrobiotic diet, and really

gave them a try. No flesh at that point, no dairy.

My digestion was bad from the beginning of my illness, and

flesh proteins were the hardest on me.. On my first DMSA round

I noticed that chicken was equal affects as any other foods.

And so I began eating it again. I had eaten a little bit

during my 30 years of being ill , but not much.. I had

eaten eggs and yoghurt all along,

Then into my first months of chelating I noticed that

ground beef just tastes soooo good.. Very unusual for me.

In my case I may be deficient in taurine as it is

involved in bile salts production and acid production in

the stomach.. ANd flesh proteins are the best source of

taurine.

Now this may be ooincidence and I shall leave it at that.

Nanci

[Guest guest]

> >

> > It is very difficult to be a vegetarian, eat a low sulfur diet, and

> not die of protein

> > malnutrition. Nuts other than peanuts are the only avaialble

> source of protein in that case.

>

> Are there really vegetarians on non-fruitarian diets suppying ample

> calories who have died from protein malnutrition?

It is common in other parts of the world, in the US I think it is rare because

they get

dragged to the psych ward and force fed a diet containing meat before they

manage to

die.

>

> > > > In general, the thinking among vegan nutritionists and MDs is

> that

> > > > there is a cult of protein in our animal-food-centric society

> that

> > > is

> > > > unrelated to reality, and that most people do not need to make

> any

> > > > special effort to get enough protein on a vegan diet. I don't

> know

> > > > whether being metal toxic changes this.

> >

> > It does.

> >

> > Also the vegan nutritionists are cult.

>

> Each group thinks the other is cult.

>

> > Human protein requirements are difficult to meet

> > without eating animal products. Getting enough protein is a

> smaller issue than getting

> > 'balanced' protein so that you do not become deficient in a few

> amino acids.

>

> The American Dietetic Association's position paper on vegetarian

> diets disagrees,

I don't believe anything the ADA says beyond how much of a given basic nutrient

is in a

food. They'll also tell you lots of other lies and seem to have a similar but

more ridiculous

agenda as the quacks practicing mainstream medicine in terms of oversimplifying

it.

>as do people like Walter Willet of Harvard. Amino

> acid balance is an old concern that has supposedly been resolved with

> more current research.

>

> Is there any good evidence that the Weston Price people are right,

> and the vegans are wrong, on the scientific merits?

They're both wrong in some ways, the most important being that they both hold

forth a

'one size fits all' approach. However the WP people are closer to right on

average.

If you knew anything about science I'd address the scientific merits, but the

tone of the

communication indicates you don't and it is going to be too difficult to teach

you what it

is. It does NOT consist of quoting authoritative statements when you agree with

them that

are editorial opinion pieces bereft of fact.

> The mainstream is

> often wrong, e.g., regarding mercury, but is not ALWAYS wrong, and

> veganism is apparently supported these days by mainstream research,

> which was far from the case a few decades ago.

Yes, the mainstream people DO blow with the wind very nicely. They put so much

effort

and attention into that there is none left for thinking. That, indeed, is

precisely the

problem.

> > People with metabolic impairment and also adrenal stress do need a

> lot of protein. As in

> > many other areas, the physiologic capability of the normal healthy

> person's body to adapt

> > to whatever it runs into is far greater than a sick or toxic person.

>

> Which could arguably be the reason why all the vegans and near-

> vegans, including millions of people eating indigenous diets, haven't

> dropped dead yet, if the Weston Pricers are right.

Yes.

Essentially no indigenous people eat zero animal products.

Certainly if you either spend some time talking to doc's who treat a lot of

vegans and

vegetarians, or just hang out in the local health food store observingt people,

you'll find

out 2 things.

Physically, these are generally pretty sick people. Once you get them to eat

some meat

their health imrpoves dramatically.

A few people do very well on vegetarian diets, very few but some on vegan diets,

the ones

who do well on vegan diets pay a LOT of attention to proper food choice and take

supplements. Almost all of these people do come from an ethnic background

where there

were at least centuries of evolutionary pressure to do well on this in terms of

it being the

only available diet.

Many people on vegetarian or vegan diets become more agitated, aggressive and

generally

distressed when they take up eating meat. This decreases their quality of life

far more

than their improved physical health increases it.

Part of this generally distressed agitation and emotional thrashing comes

through as a

very moralistic crusade for vegetarianism and veganism. After all, it really

DOES make

these people feel better, calmer, less beastly and angry. With mainstream

medicine and

dieticianry ignoring all relevant factors and engaging in the antithesis of

science, people

can become confused and think the only reason for this is their superior moral

position,

which they then advocate to try to share its benefits with the rest of us.

It's not that I don't consider this a legitimate moral choice, it's just that I

don't think the

moral issue is at the root of why most people avoid meat.

Andy

[Guest guest]

Josie,

I have been a vegetarian and I have trouble with sulfur foods. Do

you think you could do 4 days to see if it makes a difference?

The reason is this...before I was mercury toxic I was vegetarian.

Then I had trouble with soy...we ate across the spectrum of

vegetarian foods...quinoia, teff, various other grains, full spectrum

of veggies. I decided to eat meat again for a variety of reasons

that aren't relevant.

My point, and I do have one, is that when I figured out sulfur was a

problem...after eating brussel sprouts as candy, it made such a

difference to my well being. Everyone is different and not everyone

has problems with sulfur foods...you might consider 4 days and then

take it from there. If it makes you feels much better off sulfur

foods then you have a decision to make.

For me the symptom decrease is worth the year or so my diet will be

less than ideal- less green things. I assume that I will be able to

eat sulfur foods again. I have done 24 rounds in the last 8 months.

People ask me how I live without certain foods. it is easy when

those foods create such pain (not physcial- sulfur creates lots of

motion for me. I feel like my floor is moving when it isn't) Sulfur

foods make it worse.

Good luck

Colette

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you notice problems with beans, or just cruciferous vegetables

> (brussels sprouts, etc.)? My problems were apparently just with the

> vegetables.

-=====interesting question. Soy and peanuts were the first items I had

problems with that I noticed. I had those issues for about 2 or 3

years before I was diagnosed. I did not notice other beans per se.

Since diagnois, I would say both. I noticed symptoms when I ate

lentils. I would have to go back to food diarys for certain other

beans. Green veggies were okay in small quantities for a while but one

dinner I had baked brocolli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and onions

and it was awful. I have taken the path of fear at the moment and

don't want to try sulfur foods again until I feel better overall

generally. I am not fully functional in life - about 60%. I have an

idea of trying sulfur over Xmas vacation....no olympic dreams for me,

just brocolli

What are your symptoms with the veggies? Perhaps you have discussed

this and I missed that part of the thread.

Colette

[Guest guest]

>

> What are your symptoms?

>

==I have two major ones....head feels full and then I feel lots of

motions, unsteady on my feet, I guess nausea always goes with that. If

I lie on the bed it feels like a water bed moving - it isn't a water

bed:)

My second one is that my arm and leg (left) go numb. I noticed like

you years before I read AI that there was an association between

ruttabaga and other sulfur foods with this leg and arm thing...my NP

didn't understand it. It wasn't until I read AI that I made the

connection. Since avoiding sulfur I don't have the arm and leg numb

thing.

Colette

[Guest guest]

>

> > > > Human protein requirements are difficult to meet

> > > > without eating animal products. Getting enough protein is a

> > > smaller issue than getting

> > > > 'balanced' protein so that you do not become deficient in a few

> > > amino acids.

> > >

> > > The American Dietetic Association's position paper on vegetarian

> > > diets disagrees,

> >

> > I don't believe anything the ADA says beyond how much of a given

> basic nutrient is in a

> > food. They'll also tell you lots of other lies and seem to have a

> similar but more ridiculous

> > agenda as the quacks practicing mainstream medicine in terms of

> oversimplifying it.

>

> Validating the fact that reasonably chosen vegan diets readily meet

> the RDAs for protein and amino acids is a matter of simple

> arithmetic.

I agree with this. Normal healthy people will not die on a reasonably chosen

vegan diet.

This does not necessarily mean they are all doing well, or that people with

other health

problems can eat this diet and be OK.

Your emotional distress regarding the eating of meat does not create an

obligation for me

to argue incessantly about it. I think we've covered the topic adequately at

this point to

drop it.

Andy