Some more questions

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm still trying to work things out for myself and I hope you don't

mind a few more questions. I'm working hard on the thyroid angle for

myself right now, am awaiting the results of an RT3 test, and have

started a T3-only med.

I've had a lousy week of going downhill though, after initially doing

fairly well. My SAD symptoms are returning, the worst of them being

insomnia (waking in the middle of the night with my heart pounding,

unable to get back to sleep) and anxiety. I'm wondering if there's

anything I did in the past week which could have caused this. There

are many factors, including the many dark grey days we've had, and

the possibility that the digestive enzymes I started taking don't

agree with me somehow.

Another factor is that I started a round of chelation on 12.5mg of

DMSA a week ago. My adrenals seem well supported now and I felt I

could probably handle that. I did a day of it, felt a little strain,

did the normal 4-hourly dosing. Then decided my heart wasn't in it, I

wasn't sure if it was the right way forward, and stopped after that

day. I didn't do what I'd done a couple of weeks beforehand and drop

the dose down first, or take a final dose hours later at the higher

amount. That would have messed me up more, yet when I actually did do

that I recovered from it quickly without all of these problems.

A couple of questions then and I hope no one finds them irritating

after our previous discussions -- I'm just trying to get at the

truth, whatever that may be.

One, why would a hair test done after 7 months of heavy chelation

show no mercury or other heavy metals, if they are there? I can

understand why this would be if someone hadn't been chelating and

their body was holding on to the metals. But even if I were

redistributing a lot of the mercury rather than getting rid of it,

wouldn't it be in my bloodstream and wouldn't it show up in my hair?

Am I missing something here? Or is it equally possible that all the

chelation really did get rid of heavy metals in my body?

Secondly, I'm also not sure why poor mineral absorption necessarily

has to point to mercury poisoning. Something like lack of stomach

acids can cause this, but there can be various causes for lack of

stomach acids.

I'm not against chelating at all -- I just want to make sure I'm

doing the right thing and not pursuing a blind alley. I've got to

start teaching next week and instead of feeling better, I'm going

downhill at the moment. I need to find a way forward.

Thanks very much,

.

[Guest guest]

I thought of a bit more to add to this.

I've also had some seemingly-uneventful rounds at 6mg DMSA -- I think I

gave the impression that I've been doing nothing but messing about and

doing things incorrectly.

I'm also starting another 6mg round today to see if it helps. It isn't

going to hurt.

I'm just struggling to understand some things and I hope people here

don't mind my asking. It's hard when there's no actual test to see for

sure what metals I have in my body.

Thanks again,

.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm still trying to work things out for myself and I hope you don't

> mind a few more questions.

That's what we are here for - to support one another.

I'm working hard on the thyroid angle for

> myself right now, am awaiting the results of an RT3 test, and have

> started a T3-only med.

Is this a sustained release T3 med?

A fast release T3 product, like Cytomel, will be too hard on your

adrenals (I know this from experience, my adrenals status is similar

to yours. People with stronger adrenal function could tolerate it

better.).

>

> I've had a lousy week of going downhill though, after initially doing

> fairly well. My SAD symptoms are returning, the worst of them being

> insomnia (waking in the middle of the night with my heart pounding,

> unable to get back to sleep) and anxiety. I'm wondering if there's

> anything I did in the past week which could have caused this. There

> are many factors, including the many dark grey days we've had, and

> the possibility that the digestive enzymes I started taking don't

> agree with me somehow.

>

There are so many factors that it would be difficult for anyone to

comment over the internet.

> Another factor is that I started a round of chelation on 12.5mg of

> DMSA a week ago. My adrenals seem well supported now and I felt I

> could probably handle that. I did a day of it, felt a little strain,

> did the normal 4-hourly dosing. Then decided my heart wasn't in it, I

> wasn't sure if it was the right way forward, and stopped after that

> day. I didn't do what I'd done a couple of weeks beforehand and drop

> the dose down first, or take a final dose hours later at the higher

> amount. That would have messed me up more, yet when I actually did do

> that I recovered from it quickly without all of these problems.

>

I suppose some of the problems could have to do with redistribution at

the end of the day of DMSA. It is difficult to say.

> A couple of questions then and I hope no one finds them irritating

> after our previous discussions -- I'm just trying to get at the

> truth, whatever that may be.

>

> One, why would a hair test done after 7 months of heavy chelation

> show no mercury or other heavy metals, if they are there?

Because your body is having difficulty excreting metals.

I can

> understand why this would be if someone hadn't been chelating and

> their body was holding on to the metals. But even if I were

> redistributing a lot of the mercury rather than getting rid of it,

> wouldn't it be in my bloodstream and wouldn't it show up in my hair?

Not if you body is still having difficulty excreting it.

> Am I missing something here? Or is it equally possible that all the

> chelation really did get rid of heavy metals in my body?

>

No, because your hair test meets counting rules, and you have

reactions to chelators.

> Secondly, I'm also not sure why poor mineral absorption necessarily

> has to point to mercury poisoning.

To answer this question one really needs to read Andy's " Hair Test

Interpretation " book. I know that you have little time because you

will be teaching soon. For myself, understanding the connection

between mineral transport derangement and mercury poisoning came

through reading that book.

Something like lack of stomach

> acids can cause this, but there can be various causes for lack of

> stomach acids.

>

According to Andy, the only things that can cause mineral transport

derangement are mercury and pregnancy/lactation.

If you could read HTI you would get an idea of how much time Andy has

invested in studying the topic.

> I'm not against chelating at all -- I just want to make sure I'm

> doing the right thing and not pursuing a blind alley.

I understand of course.

I've got to

> start teaching next week and instead of feeling better, I'm going

> downhill at the moment. I need to find a way forward.

>

> Thanks very much,

> .

>

(Lou's next post):

I thought of a bit more to add to this.

I've also had some seemingly-uneventful rounds at 6mg DMSA -- I think I

gave the impression that I've been doing nothing but messing about and

doing things incorrectly.

I'm also starting another 6mg round today to see if it helps. It isn't

going to hurt.

I'm just struggling to understand some things and I hope people here

don't mind my asking.

It's hard when there's no actual test to see for

sure what metals I have in my body.

***There are two tests that you have already done. One is the hair

test which shows mineral transport derangement. That indicates

mercury poisoning. The second is your response to chelators. Side

effects or improvement with chelation both CONFIRM toxicity. If a

person was not toxic they would have no reaction to chelation.

J

Thanks again,

.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response, . Some more things here to think

about. I guess what I'm wondering at the moment is how I'll get on

with the Cytomel. I have spoken to people who have been fine with the

normal stuff (not slow release). I personally seem to metabolise meds

quickly, which is why I think HC didn't work for me and medrol does.

The problem is that I self-medicate. Cytomel is in short supply

everywhere at the moment. I actually am using something called

cynomel, a Mexican generic brand, which has now been discontinued.

I'm having to look at ordering from a body-building site. I doubt if

I'd be able to get slow-release; I'm told it's only available from a

compound pharmacy.

If I get a definite result from my RT3 test, I might be able to get a

script from the endo, but that's a big question mark. He's about as

conventional as they come, and it's already going to take time and a

lot of luck to get him to change my current useless HC script to a

medrol one.

Lots and lots of fun, LOL.

Thanks again for your help,

.

[Guest guest]

, a few further questions about your post if you don't mind.

If my body wasn't excreting metals very well on 50mg DMSA and 100mg

ALA, isn't that pretty extreme? Do other people have this problem, and

what can be done about it?

Where can I order a copy of Andy's hair test interpretation book?

And might it help to get a DDI hair test done? It's been 6 months since

my last test. Is this test available to people in the UK; and if so, do

you have a link to them?

Thanks again,

.

[Guest guest]

>

> , a few further questions about your post if you don't mind.

>

> If my body wasn't excreting metals very well on 50mg DMSA and 100mg

> ALA, isn't that pretty extreme?

DMSA takes mercury out via the urine and ALA takes mercury out via the

feces.

Do other people have this problem, and

> what can be done about it?

>

> Where can I order a copy of Andy's hair test interpretation book?

www.noamalgam.com/buythebooks.html

>

> And might it help to get a DDI hair test done?

I don't think it is really needed, but you could get one if you want.

It's been 6 months since

> my last test. Is this test available to people in the UK; and if so, do

> you have a link to them?

You could order through www.directlabs.com without a doctor. Be sure

to order the essential elements test. If you mention the autism

mercury group you can get a discount.

J

>

> Thanks again,

> .

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for your response, . Some more things here to think

> about. I guess what I'm wondering at the moment is how I'll get on

> with the Cytomel. I have spoken to people who have been fine with the

> normal stuff (not slow release). I personally seem to metabolise meds

> quickly, which is why I think HC didn't work for me and medrol does.

>

> The problem is that I self-medicate. Cytomel is in short supply

> everywhere at the moment. I actually am using something called

> cynomel, a Mexican generic brand, which has now been discontinued.

> I'm having to look at ordering from a body-building site. I doubt if

> I'd be able to get slow-release; I'm told it's only available from a

> compound pharmacy.

>

I get mine with a doctor's prescription via a compounding pharmacy.

I would be concerned about self medicating because I found that slight

changes of dose gave major problems to my brain function. I wouldn't

want to have to go cold turkey off of it. Just my experience.

> If I get a definite result from my RT3 test, I might be able to get a

> script from the endo, but that's a big question mark.

Maybe if you could find something to show him that T3 is used to treat

depression - but that is a long shot too. I haven't had any luck with

endos myself. I have found some GPs who have been very helpful.

J

He's about as

> conventional as they come, and it's already going to take time and a

> lot of luck to get him to change my current useless HC script to a

> medrol one.

>

> Lots and lots of fun, LOL.

>

> Thanks again for your help,

> .

>

[Guest guest]

, could I just try to clarify some points? I asked:

> > If my body wasn't excreting metals very well on 50mg DMSA and 100mg

> > ALA, isn't that pretty extreme?

>

And you replied:

> DMSA takes mercury out via the urine and ALA takes mercury out via the

> feces.

I'm sure that you and others here know a lot about this and maybe I'm

missing something, so I apologise for that. But what I'm not

understanding is that Andy says I was probably chelating too hard for

those 7 months, and redistributing mercury as well as getting rid of

it. But according to my hair test results, I was taking large amounts

of chelators for a substantial time and I was holding on to so much

mercury that none was in my blood and so none showed up in my hair

test. I am confused.

>

> Do other people have this problem, and

> > what can be done about it?

I guess what I'm asking here is that I'm pretty amazed that someone

could be chelating so heavily for so long and still not be excreting

mercury.

As far as results from the DMSA and ALA, I had noticeable symptoms

after amalgam removal and chelation got rid of those in a couple of

months. I carried on chelating for about 5 more months but didn't

notice any further improvements. I've looked and looked for an answer

to my question about the relationship between DMSA and the adrenals,

and whether it might make them produce, but can't seem to find

anything. Before I treated my adrenal condition, DMSA helped me as long

as I was taking it. Now when I try to take it, I get sleepy, and I am

not noticing any benefits. I never got sleepy during those months

before when I took it.

So when someone says I must be toxic because I have a reaction to a

chelator, I also have to wonder how the DMSA is affecting various

hormones which are already out of balance. I would like to see more

research on DMSA and its effects on people but there doesn't seem to be

much out there.

I'm sorry to be a pain, . I'm just ill, the SAD is starting for

the 5th winter in a row, and somehow I've got to be fit to start

teaching next week and take on quite a large timetable. I'm looking

everywhere I can for answers and I've having lots of tests done so

hopefully that will help.

Thanks again,

.

[Guest guest]

> I'm not against chelating at all -- I just want to make sure I'm

> doing the right thing and not pursuing a blind alley. I've got to

> start teaching next week and instead of feeling better, I'm going

> downhill at the moment. I need to find a way forward.

>

> Thanks very much,

> .

Hi . I've done just about 70 rounds of chelation since December 05, and so

have my

2 NT kids.

We did have hair tests which met the counting rules, we had symptoms of

poisoning, and

we definitely could put together a history of exposure to Hg and Pb.

I'm really glad we did the rounds, and we did see improvements, without a doubt.

We may

do more rounds in the future, but I'm not sure.

For us, it has been much, much more than " just chelating " . We've worked hard on

gut

healing, diet changes (getting rid of gluten), supporting adrenals & thyroid,

and most

recently I've started low dose pulsing Doxycycline for a mycoplasma infection

which is

giving me arthritis.

There are a lot of things you can do to feel MUCH MUCH better, and these are

outlined in

Amalgam Illness. I don't think there is any way to say that chelating will

solve your

problems. You can never go back and try it again without chelating, y'know?

Hg interferes with biochemical reactions in the body, and suppresses the immune

system.

If you really think you've been exposed, why not chelate? I don't think it is

by any means a

blind alley. And if you follow Andy's low and frequent dosing, you're not

going to hurt

yourself.

Some people might try chelation, see no improvements, give up, and declare it

doesn't

work. There is a lot of detective work and tinkering that needs to be done

along with

chelating, if you are to see improvements quickly.

For example, taking digestive enzymes, probiotics, anti-fungals, and giving up

gluten

turned out to be HUGE steps for me. But I didn't get serious about that until

I had most of

the 70 rounds under my belt.

Keep going after root causes, and I don't think you can go wrong.

[Guest guest]

> For us, it has been much, much more than " just chelating " . We've

worked hard on gut

> healing, diet changes (getting rid of gluten), supporting adrenals &

thyroid, and most

> recently I've started low dose pulsing Doxycycline for a mycoplasma

infection which is

> giving me arthritis.

=--------------

How did you diagnose the mycoplasma infection?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your post. Sounds like you've worked things out very well

for yourself. I agree, there's more to all of this than chelating

alone. It's not always easy to know what to do or what to try. I went

through an anti-candida regime and have had a clean Paleolithic diet

(no grains, potatoes, legumes or sugar) off and on, sometimes for a

few months at a stretch, no die-off symptoms. Now I'm focusing on

adrenals and thyroid but am surprised so far to find that I still

don't feel any better.

There's one reason why I have a concern about chelating. It's because

my adrenals are very weak. I am on medrol to support them but I don't

think they're likely to heal much if I'm chelating. I tried to start

a kindey cleanse with some herbs a couple of weeks ago and that was

even harder on my adrenals than chelation, it doesn't seem to take

much.

There's also this weird effect of getting so sleepy on chelation, a

completely new one for me. Well maybe I can screw up my courage to

get through three days in that state and hope I'm a little better on

the other side, or even that the sleepiness doesn't last all of 3

days.

Those are my concerns at the moment. And I guess I'm a little jaded

from years of trying all kinds of alt med solutions to the problem

and not getting better. It's hard to find the mental strength to

believe in something yet again and go for it 100%.

I have to think about this some more. I've told myself that if I'm

still feeling lousy in the morning, I will start a round, and I will

make myself stick to it for 3 days.

Thanks again for the support ,

.

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Lou wrote:

Hi ,

<snip>

There's one reason why I have a concern about chelating. It's because

my adrenals are very weak. I am on medrol to support them but I don't

think they're likely to heal much if I'm chelating. I tried to start

a kindey cleanse with some herbs a couple of weeks ago and that was

even harder on my adrenals than chelation, it doesn't seem to take

much.

----------If your adrenals are that weak, then I would suggest focusing on

them, and taking a break from chelation and trying cleanses, etc. Andy does not

recommend liver flushes, because he feels they are just too hard on us toxic

folks. Sounds like the same with the kidney cleanse for you. These things have

probably beaten your adrenals down further, and sorry to say, they're probably

not going to just bounce right back. (Just being honest. I've been through

alot of different stressors while trying to chelate these past 3 years, and it

all takes its toll on your adrenals. And I have taken many breaks from

chelation for these reasons, because I finally learned it would just be too hard

on my adrenals.)

There are lots of good links in the Links section of the group on adrenals,

and this one is a good one to print out for a quick reference, and gives lots of

ideas on how to support your adrenals, beyond meds.

http://www.thecompounder.com/hormonesadrenalprotocol.php

One thing he doesn't mention, that Andy would recommend and so would I, is to

try/use ACE in addition to your adrenal med, if you aren't already. I use ACE

and HC, and also support my adrenals with lots of Vit C, B5 and other B's, and

sea salt in water every morning, and sometimes throughout the day. I also take

DHEA and pregnenolone, and try to eat a high protein/low carb diet.

Any or all of these might help. I would try the salt right away. I hope I

haven't repeated things that others may have suggested or you already knew or

are doing. Just throwing out some ideas.--------Jackie

There's also this weird effect of getting so sleepy on chelation, a

completely new one for me. Well maybe I can screw up my courage to

get through three days in that state and hope I'm a little better on

the other side, or even that the sleepiness doesn't last all of 3

days.

-----------ALA makes me very sleepy, but DMSA and DMPS don't. But I think it

was a sign of too much chelator. So your body/adrenals might just not be able

to tolerate chelation right now. Might not be worth pushing it.--------Jackie

Those are my concerns at the moment. And I guess I'm a little jaded

from years of trying all kinds of alt med solutions to the problem

and not getting better. It's hard to find the mental strength to

believe in something yet again and go for it 100%.

----------Yes, I understand that concern/feeling. But I think hormone

balancing is *extremely* important, and all the other interventions in the world

aren't going to work or help much, if your hormones are way out of whack. I

have felt better and tolerate chelation better since working on my hormones.

And I mean sex hormones too, not just adrenals and thyroid.--------Jackie

I have to think about this some more. I've told myself that if I'm

still feeling lousy in the morning, I will start a round, and I will

make myself stick to it for 3 days.

----------Of course it's up to you, but not sure if I would do it if I were

you. I don't think one round is going to be the magic bullet, and would

probably just stress your adrenals more. It sounds like you have enough stress

in your life right now, I wouldn't add any more by trying to chelate right now.

It might be different if you felt better on rounds, but since you don't, I would

hold off and work on supporting those adrenals. JMO---------Jackie

Thanks again for the support ,

.