Re: New to group, husband has kidney pain

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Tk, I guess I should have read through the files first but was

in a hurry to ask. We have Andy's Book and were doing the 1/2mg per

pound of body weight. I don't remember reading about a lesser dosage

than that as this file states. I'll run this past him thanks.

Carie

>

> TK--- This is way to much to start with - Please reduce dosage to

> 12.5mg to start and work up slowly over a number of rounds - see

> files section -

> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/INhGSFpUKOB_Bt_tQZ7OE_zV2nj8WIo1_cdzHZR4E

> _ahOZ2R1bWiRTNKTeNi8P4H7Mn4SMltAbtkmwDzj97LBw/TK-%20My%20%20General%

> 20Chelation%20Suggestions%20-%20PLEASE%20READ%20%21%21%21

>

>

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carie,, You must reduce the amount of DMSA.

Kidneys are nothing to mess with. He should get a doctor to

have a look at them.. Infection of the kidneys is dangerous.

.. Heavy metals are hard on our kidneys and we can use extra

support for our kidneys. Mine used to really ache at their worst and I would

always be getting kidney/bladder infections. After some trial and error and

research I found some things that supported my kidneys.

I made it a habit of using a few herbs good for the kidneys.

Nettle tea works well and does not taste too bad. And I had an

herbalist make me a combination of herbs,in my case a cranberry concentrate

called D-mannose which is particular for the bacteria ecoli really helps when I

start to get problems..

Since my last chelation my kidneys have been good for the first

time in over 20 years of chronic problems.. Working slowly but surely using

frequent dose is worth the effort. ... it does get better..

Nanci

[Guest guest]

Hi Carie,

>

> Hi all,

> My husband has an acute poisoning since Dec.

-- Why do you say he has an *acute* poisoning? Most of us suffer a

chronic mercury poisoning. My understanding is that the treatment is

different for each case. An acute poisoning is a serious life

threatening due to kidney failure. Normally kidneys are not seriously

damaged in chronic mercury poisoning. --- A.

which I will give him the

> chance to explain his experience himself sometime. I just wanted to ask

> a question. I am worried about the kidney pain he is experiencing while

> on a round. He has only done 2 rounds so far. Dmsa 100mg

-- As commented before, that is way too much to start with.-- A

every 4 hours

> for the 3 days on and 4 days off. He has also had upper, middle, and

> lower back pain that seem very severe.

--In AI, p. 48, is said " Kidneys - targets of acute toxicity.

Lower back pain in the area of the kidneys is

highly unlikely to be due to kidney problems. " --

He is taking alot of

> suppliments and I think I have everything else covered. Just wanted to

> know what to do about kidney pain, is there something he can take to

> lessen this reaction?

-- From [HTI, p. 238]:

" When I refer to alkalinizing the urine,

I mean to give sodium bicarbonate

(baking soda) or citrate or malate form

supplements until the pH of the urine is

8 or more. Your doctor may be able to

come up with pH test strips or you can

try to get something appropriate at. a

swimming pool supply store. The thiol

based chelators will drop off some of the

metals in the kidneys if the urine is too

acidic. Alkalinizing the urine can make

some people less able to tolerate protein

in their diets (by making it harder to get

rid of ammonia). "

This is likely to help even if kidneys are not the problem.

-- A.

(already takes about 4-6 hydro's a day while on a

> round-and this by no means leaves him pain free) What does this kidney

> pain mean?

> Is this pain

> supposed to be a normal thing while taking dmsa? He drinks alot of

> water..could this have something to do with it?

> And I want to know if its normal to feel like absolute crap the day

> after you stop chelating?

>

> Carie

>

-- If he is finding rough the use of DMSA after lowering the dose,

ALA only can be used three months after the last mercury exposition.

ALA is what will really speed up chelation and will clean brain and

internal organs. Liver is the main excreting organ if you use ALA.

This is true for the case of usual chronic mercury poisoning. If he

suffered an acute mercury poisoning, maybe things would be different.

-- A.

[Guest guest]

> It is _not_ pain in the kidneys. It's lower back pain. The kidneys

could die

> without your feeling a thing.

>

> >Is

I would not be telling this to someone who has not had a

medical diagnoses. I did have pain in my kidneys and blood

showed up in my urine..

Nanci

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " DeanNetwork " dean@... deansta22

Fri Jun 6, 2008 11:41 pm (PDT)

>>Now on chelation he is having all these symptoms back again but more

>>like all at the same time. The kidney pain is what worried me, its

>>something I hadn't seen before and he looks like its absolutely

>>excruciating. No blood in urine, no inability to urine. Pain subsides

>>on the second day " off " round.

>Hi,

>I have had the experience with clients where their back pain resolves

instantly with proper adrenal support suitable to their individual needs.

I can make sense of that given that the adrenals make the hormones that are

signals for the management of the electrolytes, and the electrolytes are what

are needed for the muscles to signal contraction and release. That would be

consistent with the recommendation to give magnesium and other electrolytes,

though it probably wouldnt' be sufficient depending on how bad the problem is.

Perhaps that is what is going on?

>The adrenal glands can and do refer back pain to the T12 area. It is more

central and more unrelenting that kidney pain. Feels like you want to put

two fists on your spine and press. (Which does give some relief, but as soon

as you let go it comes back)

>Kidney pain is wider, lower and softer, with most of the pain in the

morning. It is much easier to live with than adrenal referred pain.

We are clearly not talking about the " upper, middle, and lower back pain that

seem very severe " , as described by 's husband.

>I know Andy does not believe that low back pain is kidney related,

But he does. The kidneys are responsible for keeping electrolyte balance. He

is saying that _toxic induced kidney damage_ is not painful.

>but I can tell you that when people are put on the kidney cleanse the pain

resolves a few weeks in 95% of them.

What pain are we talking about here?

>When the pain comes and goes in relation to rounds I'm more inclined to

believe that he is experiencing a referred pain from the adrenals.

Why?

And now I'm confused, I thought you said that kind of pain appeared at T12,

which is not what 's husband is dealing with.

By the way, in may case, pain in the T12 area that felt better if I put

something hard in my back (I would roll a towel around a stick and lie in bed

with it across that area) was stomach pain. This only appeared on round, and

it took me a very long time to figure out what it was. It finally resolved

after coming to a head when I could hardly sleep anymore. I found that all I

had to do was take walks after meals, so that gas did not accumulate in the

digestive system. Accumulating gas makes the esophogeal valve close really

hard, which it does to keep food from coming back up. It becomes particularly

rigid at night, when lying horizontal, and it is particularly bad if the

electrolytes are messed up, so you can't properly contract/relax the muscles.

I also thought it was adrenals for a long time, years. Then I began to think

the ALA was burning my stomach, after which I wondered if I had GERD. Finally,

I realized that it was much simpler.

>Cortisol or DHEA are the two things that have helped impressively.

The adrenals always experience a stress challenge during redistribution. I

have often wondered if the HC does could be increased for a day or two after

round.

DeanSA

[Guest guest]

> I can make sense of that given that the adrenals make the hormones that

> are

> signals for the management of the electrolytes, and the electrolytes are

> what

> are needed for the muscles to signal contraction and release. That would

> be

> consistent with the recommendation to give magnesium and other

> electrolytes,

> though it probably wouldnt' be sufficient depending on how bad the problem

> is.

> Perhaps that is what is going on?

I'm sure that has something to do with it, however that would likely cause a

more generalised problem.

This adrenal pain is located in the same place always - around the T12 are

and I suspect it is a referred pain from the organ.

Medicine has forgotten that organs refer pain (except for the appendix and

heart), but all the others have referral patterns too.

Meaning, if the organ is inflamed, it will irritate the nerves and send pain

to other nerves that come from the same spinal segment.

> We are clearly not talking about the " upper, middle, and lower back pain

> that

> seem very severe " , as described by 's husband.

It can be this type of pain as it can radiate outwards from this site and

induce other muscles to spasm.

At least it must be considered.

> >I know Andy does not believe that low back pain is kidney related,

>

> But he does. The kidneys are responsible for keeping electrolyte balance.

> He

> is saying that _toxic induced kidney damage_ is not painful.

Hi Dave,

Andy says that low back pain is unlikely to be kidney related, while I

observe that it is almost always kidney related (well chronic low back

pain).

I know this because when people start the kidney cleanse the back pain

resolves in most cases.

> >but I can tell you that when people are put on the kidney cleanse the

> >pain

> resolves a few weeks in 95% of them.

>

> What pain are we talking about here?

The kidney pain.

> >When the pain comes and goes in relation to rounds I'm more inclined to

> believe that he is experiencing a referred pain from the adrenals.

>

> Why?

Because chelation always stresses the adrenals, hence the referral pattern.

Kidney pain is unlikely to come and go with rounds, it is much more

consistant in presentation.

DeanSA