Re: Methyl donors and MCS

[Guest guest]

Robin - below.

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Posted by: " robin " grainwreck@...

Wed May 7, 2008 11:22 am (PDT)

>AI says on page 110 " Many people with MCS are unusually sensitive to

acetylcholine. Thus if they supplement with DMAE they will require much

lower doses than other people.

Sounds like he's saying that they will respond to lower doses.

>They may also be quite sensitive to choline, phosphatidylcholine and

lecithin.

Which are precursors to acetylcholine, so this makes sense that there would also

be response to doses lower than normal.

>Thiamone may reduce excessive sensitivty to acetylcholine.

Clearly he means that thiamine is somewhere involved in the synthesis,

release, re-uptake, and/or breakdown of acetylcholine.

Why, in the case of MCS, acetylcholine's effects are magnified, and why

B1 will act to moderate those effects, I don't know. Andy's pretty good

at this sort of thing though, so I'd just take him at his word.

>Excess acetylcholine also affects arachidonic acid release as

discussed in the fatty acids section. "

>Very generally, and not having a chemistry background,

I don't either, but I do have a technical background, so I'm not scared of the

words.

>I don't understand this. My quick research says that, acetylcholine is a

neurotransmitter and dietary choline and phosphatidylcholine are the

sources of free choline for acetylcholine synthesis.

Exactly.

>What foods should I be avoiding and/or maybe I'm not understanding

the word " sensitive " here and maybe I'm also comparing apples to

oranges but I still don't get it.

I just think he's saying to be careful with supplementation that might

have the effect of jacking up acetylcholine in cases of MCS. I think

the bottom line here is to avoid lecithin when you do your bile supps.

>Simply put:

>I've developed MCS so I shouldn't be getting the phosphatidylcholine

>IV's (Lipostabil N i.v. 5 ml) I've been getting?

That is indeed what he appears to be saying.

Why do you want this IV anyway? I mean, you could just eat the lecithin

- if it weren't, that is, something that Andy is suggesting to avoid in

cases of MCS.

>My doctor said the Lipostabil will help my liver and brain rebuild

tissue.

It will help the liver with bile flow. It is also part of the " head

group " (along with phosphatidyl-inositol & -serine) of the fatty acids

that make up cell membranes, including those in the brain. So yes, it

could be useful; but I really don't understand why it's being given IV

instead of oral, nor do I understand the emphasis on this nutrient. It

is certainly not critical. Vitamin C is critical. Lecithin is not,

and certainly not in isolation. Perhaps with CLO and the other two

parts of the head groups.

This is just not coming through as making a whole lot of sense to me.

>I get this stuff in a " push " before I get a Meyers..

Is that a drink?

Haven't a clue what a Myers is. Maybe it is a drink?

>So what does " sensitive " mean here?

It probably means you need less to have the same effect; and if you take

enough to make too much of the neurotransmitter, then you will have

effects related to over production of acetylcholine.

.... Ok, yes. This is exactly it. See page 49:

" Some people respond to reduced acetylcholine levels by upregulating

their M1 muscarinic acdetylcholine receptors. This makes the process

that particular receptor participates in adequately sensitive to the

small amounts of remaining acetylcholine to continue to function. These

people will react poorly to acethycholine boosters like DMAE. They will

usually benefit greatly from methylating agents like SAM3. Thiamine

desensitizes the M1 acetylcholine receptors and bring them back into

balance with the other receptors. One of the things the M1 receptors do

is inhibit sweating, so such people often will not sweat ... It also

causes arachidonic acid release, so such people will have high levels of

leukotrienes and proinflammatory prostaglandins. Arachidonic acid in

turn increases acetylcholine levels, so such people can end up in a

positive feedback loop which renders them hypersensitive. They often

have MCS, and are sensitive to supplements at extremely low doses. "

(Forgive misprints, I didn't check.)

Also, page 51: " Mercury inhibits several enzymes which metabolize

acetylcholine. "

Actually, now that I'm reading all this, I remember this effect. When I

first started on lecithin, it made me feel kind of speedy. First it was

great, but after a little while, I had to back off. That's interesting.

>Thanks!

>~robin

Dave.