Re: Severe reactions to chelation...3 days on 11 off? Anyone know this one?

[Guest guest]

I am not the expert on chelation but I think taking a break this long

from chelation (? I got the impression that you were off the

Chelation for a few years) may have messed things up. Your body is

trying to get rid of this poison without any help (chelation)

and I can only guess that you need adrenal support and that is not

coming from travelling/mtn biking or hot/humid weather

AI says no infrared sauna

Also there is a protocol that the moderators have requested i not

discuss that is predicated on CWD (cell wall deficient bacteria..ie

lyme) being protected by high levels of vitamin d..ie SUNSHINE!!

I know personally over the past 3 months, i have a hard time with

direct sun. email me directly if you want further information

DMPS seems to work easier than DMSA with many people

Chinese supplements are many times toxic. I would never trust any of

these...Who knows what the H is in them...

I do not think vit C chelates mercury, it supports adrenals and helps

with digestion which can help everything. I have been taking about 4

mgs with each ALA dosage for a few days and think it is helping

I do not think fruit in any ways helps with chelation and too much

fruit would aggravate yeast prblems

-- In frequent-dose-chelation , " Jen "

wrote:

>

> I was part of this group years ago and pop back in every so often.

> I have decided for myself the last few years to just learn what

> pulls > mercury out and avoid it so I can function. Anything I

> chelate I end up suicidal, in as few as 7-10 days sometimes.

> I did 3 months of sauna therapy after I learned of this 9 years

> ago. I did several 6-8 week cycles (maybe 5-8? can't remember)

> using Andy's protocol. Probably about 8 months worth total.

> The summer heat is sucking the life out of me. I moved into a

> fifth- wheel and have been traveling all year (and took up mtn.

> biking) and I don't know if I'm reacting to having followed the

> sun all year (as a kid I was fine in the winter but was on the

> couch all summer -- in MT) or if it's about the mtn. biking this

> spring which surely depleted me. But this summer I'm just

wrecked.

> I just can't keep living this way. Not for another 40 years, and

> maybe not even for another five or ten.

>

> My adrenals are thrashed. Mtn. biking didn't help on that front.

> Getting on the bovine adrenal brought me back to life and allowed

> me to mtn. bike (during the cool winter in CA, on the bovine

> adrenal, I felt like I was made of steel, was able to work out and

> felt great!)

> I need massive amounts of supplements. Take several Chinese patent

> formulas for my kidneys, liver, spleen and have to take massive

> doses of iron and 7-keto to function normally (in the summer

> though, nothing helps, I'm just a rag doll).

> If anyone has done the 3/11 protoocol -- how much of that do you

> feel bad? Just hit the C hard on day four? I tried both DMSA and

> alpha lipoic acid and prefered the latter. DMSA was too harsh.

> ALA felt better to me. And I've forgotten the starting doses. Any

> suggestions? Maybe I noted that in my old posts. That was at

> least five years ago I think.

> And I'm wondering if my 2grams of Vit. C 2x a day are causing me

> problems? To what degree does that chelate the hg? I've reduced it

> to 1 g 2x a day. Seems like I was feeling worse after upping it,

> but I dunno. I think I was on that much all spring (along with

> many packets of Emergen-C while biking) and I felt great while it

> was cool in Sedona (Feb - mid-April) and terrible in Moab mid-April

> to mid-> June. Don't know if it was the vit. C dose or the heat or

> a combination of both.

>

>

> And is there any harm in chelating this summer on this schedule

> with fresh fruit rather than ALA? Is that any less safe? It

> would sure be a lot more enjoyable.

> Also my blood-pressure is really low. I put a ton of salt on

> everything (I know, adrenals) and I start getting all woozy upon

> standing whenever I stop eating Chex Mix on a daily basis. Blood

> pressure is usually about 95/60. When I slam the salt I can get it

> up to 103 and I do feel somewhat better. Any other tips for

> raising the blood-pressure?

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for the input. I assure you that the pectin in fruit and raw

veggies is *very* detoxifying.

j.

> >

> > I was part of this group years ago and pop back in every so often.

> > I have decided for myself the last few years to just learn what

> > pulls > mercury out and avoid it so I can function. Anything I

> > chelate I end up suicidal, in as few as 7-10 days sometimes.

>

>

> > I did 3 months of sauna therapy after I learned of this 9 years

> > ago. I did several 6-8 week cycles (maybe 5-8? can't remember)

> > using Andy's protocol. Probably about 8 months worth total.

>

>

> > The summer heat is sucking the life out of me. I moved into a

> > fifth- wheel and have been traveling all year (and took up mtn.

> > biking) and I don't know if I'm reacting to having followed the

> > sun all year (as a kid I was fine in the winter but was on the

> > couch all summer -- in MT) or if it's about the mtn. biking this

> > spring which surely depleted me. But this summer I'm just

> wrecked.

>

>

> > I just can't keep living this way. Not for another 40 years, and

> > maybe not even for another five or ten.

> >

> > My adrenals are thrashed. Mtn. biking didn't help on that

front.

> > Getting on the bovine adrenal brought me back to life and allowed

> > me to mtn. bike (during the cool winter in CA, on the bovine

> > adrenal, I felt like I was made of steel, was able to work out

and

> > felt great!)

>

>

> > I need massive amounts of supplements. Take several Chinese

patent

> > formulas for my kidneys, liver, spleen and have to take massive

> > doses of iron and 7-keto to function normally (in the summer

> > though, nothing helps, I'm just a rag doll).

>

>

> > If anyone has done the 3/11 protoocol -- how much of that do you

> > feel bad? Just hit the C hard on day four? I tried both DMSA and

> > alpha lipoic acid and prefered the latter. DMSA was too harsh.

> > ALA felt better to me. And I've forgotten the starting doses.

Any

> > suggestions? Maybe I noted that in my old posts. That was at

> > least five years ago I think.

>

>

> > And I'm wondering if my 2grams of Vit. C 2x a day are causing me

> > problems? To what degree does that chelate the hg? I've reduced

it

> > to 1 g 2x a day. Seems like I was feeling worse after upping it,

> > but I dunno. I think I was on that much all spring (along with

> > many packets of Emergen-C while biking) and I felt great while

it

> > was cool in Sedona (Feb - mid-April) and terrible in Moab mid-

April

> > to mid-> June. Don't know if it was the vit. C dose or the heat

or

> > a combination of both.

> >

> >

> > And is there any harm in chelating this summer on this schedule

> > with fresh fruit rather than ALA? Is that any less safe? It

> > would sure be a lot more enjoyable.

>

>

> > Also my blood-pressure is really low. I put a ton of salt on

> > everything (I know, adrenals) and I start getting all woozy upon

> > standing whenever I stop eating Chex Mix on a daily basis. Blood

> > pressure is usually about 95/60. When I slam the salt I can get

it

> > up to 103 and I do feel somewhat better. Any other tips for

> > raising the blood-pressure?

>

[Guest guest]

What doses of dmsa/ala did you use? And was it on the three days and

two night protocol? dmsa is not normally harsh if used at low dose and

it helps with the mental side effects of chelation. My dd can't use

ala alone or the mental stuff is worse.

We have had some experience here with the mental symptoms you speak of

and chelation must be done carefully. Dosing closer together, taking

enough of the right supplements etc. She has to take her ala every two

hours, and has to finish the round with a few doses of dmsa only. We

also have to give more vitamin C, and sometimes use elemental lithium.

I have not heard of chelating on watermelon. I think Andy would not

advise this, because it does not have the chemical properties to

release or bind mercury and I know he doesn't advise using cilantro

because we don't know how to correctly dose it. Most people trying to

detox on cilantro don't do well.

Sauna's are fine if they help. I don't recall Andy having a protocol

for sauna use.

People with adrenal fatigue are not supposed to participate in extreme

physical activity such as biking all over. This will make the adrenals

worse. Your symptoms of staying up all night, intolerance to heat,

weakness, indicate your adrenals are not better and need some further

investigation and treatment. The glandular is helping as you said, but

it may not be enough. Terrible periods are thyroid related. And I

don't know if you have any correlation between feeling ill and where

you live..but motor homes often have a lot of chemicals in the upholstery.

Iron can be toxic to someone with mercury poisoning. Andy advises

avoiding iron and copper. Are you anemic?? I don't know what's in the

chinese stuff your taking but there could be problematic ingredients

there too.

Have you tried liver support as milk thistle?

Vitamin C does not chelate mercury. Andy has said this. It does help

with mercury symptoms because it's an antioxidant. Mercury is an

" oxidant " aka oxidizer. 2,000mg a day shouldn't be a problem for

someone with Hg toxicity. It would give you diarrhea if you were on

too much. But we are all different and can always try to reduce it if

you feel it's a problem.

NO EMERGEN-C..do not eat this stuff. It contains Alpha lipoic acid and

will move mercury around since your not taking it every three hours.

Find another source of C. ala must be used very carefully. That is

probably why you felt badly when you were using it.

Chelating with fresh fruit is not possible and would not be considered

chelating on this group. That does not mean you aren't having a

problem with it. You may be reacting to something in the fruit,

yes..but fruit is not a chelator. Healthy foods could facilitate detox

yes. Like when I juice, I feel weird afterwards..so I stopped doing

it. Mercury involves many food intolerances, each different for us as

individuals.

Raising blood pressure...Celtic sea salt in your water. And get the

adrenals problem addressed. You may need hydrocortisone. Get a saliva

hormone panel. Low blood pressure (95/60) indicates adrenal fatigue,

also why you feel weak and tired. Adrenals regulate your blood

pressure and adrenal fatigue will cause your body to dump all your

salt. Using Celtic Sea Salt with help.

Sciatica..see a chiropractor, it got rid of mine.

Do you have Andy's book Amalgam Illness? There is a lot in there that

could be useful.

>

> I was part of this group years ago and pop back in every so often. I

> have decided for myself the last few years to just learn what pulls

> mercury out and avoid it so I can function. Anything I chelate I end

> up suicidal, in as few as 7-10 days sometimes. I can't eat any fresh

> fruit or raw veggies (pectin), cilantro of course, curries, peppers,

> chlorophyll. I was having all sorts of plotting thoughts after

> eating watermelon for 9 days last month. I don't know why my reaction

> is so severe but..

>

> I did 3 months of sauna therapy after I learned of this 9 years ago.

> I did several 6-8 week cycles (maybe 5-8? can't remember) using

> Andy's protocol. Probably about 8 months worth total. I felt great

> the first 3-4 days on the watermelon so I'm thinking that shorter

> che

[Guest guest]

Oh mush...I almost had this post done and it got erased. I don't think

your being argumentative at all. Please don't think that. I know your

just asking for information.

You should avoid foods that make things worse. We do say to do that.

The reason your not getting information that considers avoiding foods

that " move " mercury is because on this board, we don't tend to beleive

that foods chelate. Other than chlorella and cilantro. We do advocate

avoiding whatever foods a body has problems with. You sound like a

Feingold diet candidate. Salicylates and Phenols....are a problem for

many hg toxic people mainly because the liver can't process them. We

improved this with milk thistle four times a day for the last 2 years.

Something to look at...dietary interventions are important for sure.

It's just that part of Andy's protocol does not include using Pectin

to remove mercury.

Good deal on avoiding cilantro and EmergenC. Any amount of ala used

not on a protocol moves Hg. It doesn't take much and this

redistribution can add up over time to cause problems.

You can combine your dietary strategies with the protocol.

The reasons for removing Hg that is not stirred up in the brain is

that Hg in cells continues to cause damage for as long as it's there.

Alzheimer's, Parkinsons, MS, the list of diseases from Hg in the brain

and nervous system are long. Andy's book has a good list. So for many

of us this is our reason not to leave it sitting in there. Even if we

feel functional. I feel a ton better than I did two years ago, with

minimal chelation and amalgam removal. However..I'd rather not get

dementia in 20 years because I left is sitting in there. Also it

causes autoimmunity, endocrine disruption, and cancer.

Mercury is the only metal that poisons and disrupts adrenal function.

So it's not likely to regain normal function without removing the HG.

Anemia: the reason your don't store iron is because your mercury

toxic. Mercury is an oxidizer. So is iron. The body does it's best to

self preserve by eliminating oxidizers the best it can. It cannot dump

the Hg so it dumps all your iron. Taking iron, doesn't correct this.

It never did for me either. I finally am anemia free after 2 years

detox and amalgam removal. But for years...no iron supplements helped

correct this. Also one should check ferritin levels if they are

anemic. So iron can be used in a case like your where you have no

choice. It's best gotten from food if possible.

There is no dhea in adrenal cortex. That would need to be taken

separately if needed upon testing. Same with pregnenolone or

cortisone. One can take as much ace as needed is what Andy told me.

Divided doses for adrenal cortex. not too late in the day though if

you find it hard to sleep.

Salt water...the rule is to salt to taste. It will taste good if you

need it, if it's tastes bad, then you don't need it. I was surprised

that the salt water didn't taste like salt water at all. I can't taste

the salt but other people in my house are like...wowah my gosh..that's

salty. this means I need that much. So go by what tastes good to you.

Usually they are talking a sprinkle to a tsp. More if you in the heat.

You can buy lithium orotate or aspartate. It's not the same thing as

prescription lithium. It's a mineral normally found in water, but low

in people with Hg poisoning. Molybdenum is fine..helps some people too.

did I miss anything??

>

> Thanks for the response. I need to get back on milk thistle, been

> thinking about that recently. Will do that.

>

[Guest guest]

And you retyped it all. Oh man...thank you.

I've sort of known that about the whole thing were you can taste the

mineral in something that others can't. SO...maybe there is

something to this:

I'm staying at a lake resort in MN, stayed here last year. I can

smell sulfur in the water here -- strong. When it comes out of my

taps, when it coms out of their washing machine -- everywhere. And

nobody else notices it -- people *drink* it. It smells like rotten

eggs to me -- it's sulfur. Only one other person has confirmed this,

a fishermen who stayed here last year who said " Oh yeah, they have a

lot of sulfur in their water. " The owner swears they don't according

to water tests. What's that about? Does that mean I do have sulfur

issues? It's soooooooo strong. I don't even like washing my clothes

in it. I can smell it on myself, in my hair when I get out of the

shower. And I have a water filter on my incoming water supply.

I need to know if these issues with sulfur foods are with them raw, --

or -- raw *and* cooked.

If you do have that sulfur issue, what do you do about it? I've been

away from this for so long, I can't remember...

And is a salicylate sensitivity/intolerance possibly the result of

the mercury burden and does it ever end when the mercury is out? I've

never considered this. That has me so confused as some of the foods I

revert to when sick are in the safe column but, one example, I can't

handle jams, but when I make my own strawberry freezer jam without

pectin, I handle it fine, but strawberry is in the " high " column. ?

I DID start eating something this summer I've never eaten before --

homemade french dips with packaged au jus mix. (!) This is in the

high column. I get the good roast beef, not the processed stuff, but

maybe that's still bad -- a double whammy.

I used to go into anaphylaxis as a kid from cayenne pepper (in the

high column). The only things that have set me off since then were

chocolate cake in my teens (one day I ate a *lot* of it) and aspirin,

but not every time, just a few times, both times were after working

out.

Are salicylate levels higher in raw food than cooked?

I might go back on my rice/beef diet for a few days just to see if

there is any improvement. I've been eating a lot of sweet corn and

that's in the med-high column...along with those french dips. But

all my life, french dips were something that made me feel better.

Always the thing I ordered in restaurants as a kid...so I don't

know. I also have no problems with chili, loaded with cumin and

chile pepper. Hmmm... But then I see one of my favorite things --

french toast, over in the safe column, along with the pure maple

syrup. Do people who are sensitive find that this is true for them

across the board?

THANK YOU for taking the time to rewrite all that. I realllllllly do

appreciate it!

Jen

> >

> > Thanks for the response. I need to get back on milk thistle,

been

> > thinking about that recently. Will do that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No problem...I figured it was worth it since it might help.

The sulphur smell bothers you..this indicates you may have a sulphur

issue. Otherwise your body would not be so adverse to it.

I think a few people here are using a sulphur exclusion

diet..hopefully they can elaborate on that for you. We have not had to

do that. We have salicylate and phenol issues here. Most poeple who do

have a sulphur problem use this diet of staying away from certain

foods and feel better on that.

The salicylate/phenol is surely the result of mercury, though the

original doctor who pinpoint this problem in hyperactive children (Dr

Feingold) didn't make that connection. The rest of us did. It has to

do with the liver not being able to handle these substances properly

or quickly enough and they build up in the body and cause behavioral

problems, and probably physical symptoms too. Eliminating them,

eliminates the behaviors or physical signs. I and many other parents

on Autism-Mercury have found that using milk thistle for a long period

of time and chelating...the kids can tolerate these things again. My

son could not tolerate any phenolic or salicylate foods 2 years ago.

Now he can in small amounts without obvious reactions. To me this is

progress and means that will the mercury gone, and the liver

functioning properly...yes, you can have these things again at some

point. Mercury does a number on the liver and it's the reason people

become chemically sensitive. I watched it happen in myself. I became

sensitive to every fragrance, odor, detergent..etc. Stuff that never

used to bother me. I no longer could wear fragrances or use perfumes

or scented anything. In time, as I get more detoxed and my liver

improves...I can tolerate them a bit better.

There are some mom's on Autism-Mercury who use a product called Phenol

Assist by Kirkman Labs that helps their children deal with phenolic

foods. (Feingold has a list of those foods, but you might be able to

find that list online. Same with salicylates like aspirin).

I think the easiest thing to do is a food exclusion diet. Where you

stick with a few foods you know don't bother you. Introduce one food,

give it a few days...see about reactions. Keep a list of what bothers

you and avoid it. You probably already have it narrowed down anyway.

Others find that they need to improve the gut to reduce food

reactions..in my case probiotics and antifungals have allowed me to

enjoy ice cream once again. For the past 5 years it made me sick to my

stomach if I ate it. But chronic candida makes a leaky gut...

Most of us who are food sensitive have a running list of what works ok

for us and what don't. Sometimes we don't know why they work or don't

work. The main suggestions are eliminate the obvious ones. Some people

do serum Ige, IgG, IgM food allergy panels. They are pricey but for

some needed if they have too many food intolerances. You can also just

try a sulphur exclusion diet or try Feingold or whatever you think

seems to fit for you.

I am not sure if salicylates are higher in raw foods, Feingold just

says to avoid those foods altogether. Same with phenol foods on the

list. So not sure....I know that cooking changes the enzymes of

foods...sometimes this makes it easier to digest if your lacking in

digestive ability...

>

> And you retyped it all. Oh man...thank you.

>

> I've sort of known that about the whole thing were you can taste the

> mineral in something that others can't. SO...maybe there is

> something to this:

>

> I'm staying at a lake resort in MN, stayed here last year. I can

> smell sulfur in the water here -- strong. When it comes out of my

> taps, when it coms out of their washing machine -- everywhere. And

> nobody else notices it -- people *drink* it. It smells like rotten

> eggs to me -- it's sulfur. Only one other person has confirmed this,

> a fishermen who stayed here last year who said " Oh yeah, they have a

> lot of sulfur in their water. " The owner swears they don't according

> to water tests. What's that about? Does that mean I do have sulfur

> issues? It's soooooooo strong. I don't even like washing my clothes

> in it. I can smell it on myself, in my hair when I get out of the

> shower. And I have a water filter on my incoming water supply.

>

> I need to know if these issues with sulfur foods are with them raw, --

> or -- raw *and* cooked.

>

> If you do have that sulfur issue, what do you do about it? I've been

> away from this for so long, I can't remember...

>

> And is a salicylate sensitivity/intolerance possibly the result of

> the mercury burden and does it ever end when the mercury is out? I've

> never considered this. That has me so confused as some of the foods I

> revert to when sick are in the safe column

[Guest guest]

I did find out that the salicylates are higher in raw foods. So now

it really fits.

I notice that when I am really in great shape and biking a lot, I can

tolerate more. This gives me great hope and a reason to get the

mercury out.

Great great news.

I was a hyper kid. It all fits. You don't know how much you just

changed my life.

I found others talking about iron storage problems as well on that

forum so poor absorbtion from these food problems may be a big part

of the iron issue and the adrenal issues as well.

Looking at the list of sulfur foods, I have a hard time thinking

that's a problem. I can eat cauliflower daily for weeks with no

consequences. I take garlic daily and have even when I was having

that stretch of 8 great months two winters ago. I love garlic and

onions and they always make me feel better rather than worse.

Broccoli not so much, but broccoli is high in salicylates. (!)

I'll get the salicylate thing going then see how I feel. Need to be

methodical about this.

I have such hope tonight.

Jen

> >

> > And you retyped it all. Oh man...thank you.

> >

> > I've sort of known that about the whole thing were you can taste

the

> > mineral in something that others can't. SO...maybe there is

> > something to this:

> >

> > I'm staying at a lake resort in MN, stayed here last year. I can

> > smell sulfur in the water here -- strong. When it comes out of

my

> > taps, when it coms out of their washing machine -- everywhere.

And

> > nobody else notices it -- people *drink* it. It smells like

rotten

> > eggs to me -- it's sulfur. Only one other person has confirmed

this,

> > a fishermen who stayed here last year who said " Oh yeah, they

have a

> > lot of sulfur in their water. " The owner swears they don't

according

> > to water tests. What's that about? Does that mean I do have

sulfur

> > issues? It's soooooooo strong. I don't even like washing my

clothes

> > in it. I can smell it on myself, in my hair when I get out of the

> > shower. And I have a water filter on my incoming water supply.

> >

> > I need to know if these issues with sulfur foods are with them

raw, --

> > or -- raw *and* cooked.

> >

> > If you do have that sulfur issue, what do you do about it? I've

been

> > away from this for so long, I can't remember...

> >

> > And is a salicylate sensitivity/intolerance possibly the result of

> > the mercury burden and does it ever end when the mercury is out?

I've

> > never considered this. That has me so confused as some of the

foods I

> > revert to when sick are in the safe column

>