Re: A Way to Get DMPS (to help with dumping phase)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Val.

> Sounds like your brain worked pretty well to figure out how to

get dmps.

Parts of my brain can still function marginally, compensating for the

other parts -- e.g., executive functioning of the pre-frontal cortex

-- that can't.

> Sorry to hear your feeling so bad. How's your diet? Have you

> tried a sulfur free diet?

Tried sulfur free diet a few weeks ago. Five days of absolutely

nothing on the sulfur list. Didn't feel much different. Maybe I

didn't give it long enough, but I thought 5 days was enough.

You could be having alot of candida - that

> can make you feel like dying. Caprylic Acid and Probiotics help along

> with diet. Also, if you have yeast issues, dmsa can aggravate it.

Tests have revealed no candida problem. Not sure how reliable the

tests are, though. I think they were blood tests run by my D.C. How

is candida diagnosed?

I

> don't know, you shouldn't be feeling this bad - are you taking the

> supplements? All this stuff does help. Just have to find the right

> mix.

> val

>

According to the oft-quoted chart on Page 52 of AI, it seems

conceivable that a huge flare-up in symptoms can occur in the 6-9

month timeframe as the body dumps mercury. With proper chelation and

supplementation, these effects can supposedly be reduced. Of course,

everyone is different. Maybe I need DMPS to control my symptoms at

this point, as it is supposedly much more powerful than DMSA.

I have been taking many of Andy's supplements daily in generous doses

for many months:

ACE

DHEA

Omega-3 tablets plus flax oil

Borrage oil

Vit C

Vit E + selenium

Milk thistle

BComplex

Magnesium/Calcium

Zinc

Fiber tablets

DMAE

L-tyrosine

Lecithin

Taurine (recently started)

About 2-3 months ago, I actually thought my overall condition, in

terms of chronic symptoms, was gradually getting a little better. But

starting in about June, it's been downhill. Mental dullness has

gotten really bad. Hard to hold conversations since nothing's going

on in front of brain. I can sit down and do analytical work by myself

most days, using a deeper part of the brain, but interacting with

other humans is very problematic now. I've had cognitive problems for

many years now, but this is the most severe it's been and is somehow

different.

Low-dose, high frequency chelation is certainly 'doing something'.

I'm hoping it's progressing as expected and I'm just going through the

mercury dumping phase, instead of moving more mercury into the brain.

Maybe both are happening.

After the following: (a) amalgam removal, ( four rounds of

inadvisable chelation using high oral doses of ALA, cilantro, DMSA,

chlorella (before I discovered Andy's protocol), © several rounds of

DMSA-only, (d) many rounds of DMSA+ALA, my symptoms fluctuated but I

did not feel like I was getting worse. If anything, I was starting to

get a hint better. But in the past two months, things have gotten

noticeably worse.

If I was moving mercury into the brain, I would have thought that it

would have happened during the six months after amalgam removal when I

did (a) through (d), not in months 8 & 9. I would have thought the

'body burden' would be fairly low by now.

And in recent months I've been using lower doses -- 12.5mg ALA, 12.5mg

DMSA -- whereas in earlier rounds I was using 25mg or 50mg. (Probably

too high, I know, but I was able to tolerate much higher doses on the

" inadvisable " protocol, so I figured I could start at 50mg and work

down if necessary. And many people, including Andy himself, report

using 50mg ALA to get well.) And 50mg was indeed tolerable. But now

it seems like irrespective of dose, or even being on round or

off-round, I'm just feeling and functioning horrible all-around most

of the time.

Maybe if I just keep plugging away at 12.5mg ALA / 12.5mg DMSA (or

DMPS) I'll get through this phase and start feeling better again soon.

Then again, maybe I'll get even worse. I have no idea what to think

at this point. Given my problematic mental symptoms, I feel like I

need to continue with ALA (perhaps 12.5mg or even lower dose) to

continue removing mercury from the brain. Then again, that assumes

that ALA will be moving more mercury out of the brain than into it.

Just hope I can keep up the charade at work long enough to get through

this...

Darren

[Guest guest]

>

> Maybe something else would help. My daughter had a lot of the symptoms

> you describe and I started giving her L-Histidine(500mg). Andy

> recommends it in AI for dark moods, etc. He said it helps in three

> days and that's how long it took for her mood to brighten amazingly.

>

> Barb

Thanks for the suggestion, Barb. I may give L-histidine a shot. I've

tried so many supplements to little avail, though, so I'm not too

optimistic. If only the placebo effect worked for me, I'd be 100%

well by now, given all the stuff I've tried through the years!

Darren

[Guest guest]

--- Hi Darren

Perhaps you should hold off the ALA until you get much more mercury

out of your body? It may be making your brain symptoms worse if there

is a lot of metals still in your body.

I can't tolerate even 6mgs of it still after 45 rounds of DMSA. Also,

with regards to the dumping phase - it can go on much longer than Andy

mentions in AI. For me personally it started at about 6 months and

didn't stop until after a year! Only then was I able to go back up to

25mgs DMSA. (which I had been taking before the dumping phase).

In frequent-dose-chelation , " Darren "

wrote:

>

------previous parts of thread getting very long, deleted-------

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding, .

Yeah, I just did a round of DMSA-only and am considering doing a bunch

of rounds of DMSA-only, or DMPS-only if I can get it. (Made an

appointment with an MD who supposedly does both IV and oral chelation;

I'm hoping I can get him to prescribe oral DMPS for me.)

But if I'm truly in the " dumping " phase, what is the best approach?

Firstly, I would think that it makes sense to continue chelating,

since it's the prime time to remove mercury from the body, as organs

are dumping it and (theoretically) making it easier to eliminate. But

should ALA not be used during the dumping phase, too? I don't recall

Andy or anyone else recommending to avoid ALA during the dumping phase.

I can think of logical reasons in both directions (logical to me,

anyway):

- Don't use ALA during the dumping phase because organs are dumping

mercury into bloodstream and ALA will move mercury into brain

- Do use ALA because the dumping phase is the prime time to grab

mercury from the brain and organs and escort it out of the body.

But that brings me back to the fundamental question of what stage I'm

in, and how to tell: is my body burden still high, or am I in the

dumping phase (or both)? How do I know? I guess because I am getting

slammed by even much lower doses than I was previously using, and I'm

experiencing new and rapidly changing symptoms, that it probably

indicates the dumping phase.

Thanks again,

Darren

> >

> ------previous parts of thread getting very long, deleted-------

>

[Guest guest]

---Hi Darren

I'm by no means one of the experts here and I hope that one of them

will correct me if any advice I am giving you is wrong but here are my

answers to your questions as I understand things:

In frequent-dose-chelation , " Darren "

wrote:

>

> Thanks for responding, .

> But if I'm truly in the " dumping " phase, what is the best approach?

> Firstly, I would think that it makes sense to continue chelating,

> since it's the prime time to remove mercury from the body, as organs

> are dumping it and (theoretically) making it easier to eliminate. But

> should ALA not be used during the dumping phase, too? I don't recall

> Andy or anyone else recommending to avoid ALA during the dumping

phase.

The way I understand it is that you shouldn't do ALA at all until you

have lowered your body burden of mercury. Now, in AI it talks about a

particular length of time (3 months ?) but really this is only a

guidline and Andy and others may well have commented several times

about this particular subject.

From my experience and through reading the posts here for 18 months or

so, is that it's a very personal thing. If you are able to tolerate

reasonable doses of DMSA, have chlelated with that for several months

with no problems then you can try ALA at a very low dose. But everyone

responds to the ALA differently.

If it makes you feel bad then either lower the dose or give it a few

more months of DMSA. It's not so much a case of " avoiding ALA during

the dumping phase " more about how you tolerate it and I think that you

said that you were not tolerating it well.

I have been chleating for 16 months and still only on 25mgs DMSA as

that's all I can tolerate. I can not tolerate ALA in tiny doses yet at

all. It may because my body burden is still very high, it may be

because I am just sensitive to the stuff moving around. Who knows. The

important thing is not to do anything which makes you feel worse and

to be very very very (!) patient. The time will come when you and I

can tolerate bigger doses of DMSA or small doses of ALA.

I certainly wouldn't have risked the ALA in the dumping phase knowing

how bad it made me feel but if someone finds it helps then they can

continue with it.

Also, about your question here: " I would think that it makes sense to

continue chelating,since it's the prime time to remove mercury from

the body, as organs are dumping it and (theoretically) making it

easier to eliminate. " doesn't really work like that. Yes your organs

are dumping but the chelators stir up more mercury too and are not

capable of just mopping up the extra that is nbeing dumped.

The chelators don't just pick up the mercury and take it away - they

also cause MORE to be circulated. So it's not easier to chelate when

the dumping is going on because there is just plain more going around

the body - that's why the dumping phase makes you feel worse! And

that's why it is recommended to lower the dose of chleators during the

dumping phase to make things more bearable, not increase them.

Make sense?

> I can think of logical reasons in both directions (logical to me,

> anyway):

> - Don't use ALA during the dumping phase because organs are dumping

> mercury into bloodstream and ALA will move mercury into brain

> - Do use ALA because the dumping phase is the prime time to grab

> mercury from the brain and organs and escort it out of the body.

I just explained this above.

> But that brings me back to the fundamental question of what stage

I'm in, and how to tell: is my body burden still high, or am I in the

> dumping phase (or both)? How do I know? I guess because I am getting

> slammed by even much lower doses than I was previously using, and I'm

> experiencing new and rapidly changing symptoms, that it probably

> indicates the dumping phase.

You just answered that one yourself LOL! Generally the dumping phase

seems to start around 6 months after amalgam removal but this is not a

rule. Like you say, the indication that you are feeling generally

worse and need to lower the dose of chelator is a pretty good sign.

Hope this helps

>

> Thanks again,

> Darren

>

>

> > >

> > ------previous parts of thread getting very long, deleted-------

> >

>

[Guest guest]

HI Darren

Hang in there, I think it is a dumping period and you are right in

your obsrevations... there is light coming. I know what you mean with

the socially maladaptive periods...last two weeks my head is starting

to clear. I did cilantro as well for a year before i discovered AI AND

too much probiotics I believe which caused major mercury

redistribiution and to head.

BUT i have to say I feel better than i have (Mentally) in probably 4-

5 years) anhd the greata news (well its encouraging) is that i know

there is much more mercury left in me (as if i go over 25 mgs of ALA

I get more severe head/heart problems)

I think you are right in that maybe larger doses of ALA caught up

with you this past few months so lower doses would probably be better

in the rough patch...if you had heavy mercury stores I think 50 mgs

of ALA is a lot

a couple of things

A) dmps was much easier for me and i think this seems to apply to

many people. Jule anderson recommends it and there was a post a few

weeks back from Andy that he recommends it over dmsa was well. In the

files or links section there is some information on how dmsa can I

believe lower your nueutrophils which i think can lead to yeast and

other problems. SO I think you are correct in scoping out a dr to get

you dmps

I started on my ALA at month 3 and couldn't do it. I think i tried

3 mgs or something like this. It messed my head up terribly, was

suicidal, agitated. much head fog. aches and burning. I think as Jodi

indicated we all have different levels of mercury in different places

and our body responds differently, so its trial and error for when we

start with ALA and the specifics of chelation and how our body

reacts..ie whether you do 2-3 or 4 hours

I believe my problem with ALA was due to a high body burden and so i

had to wait another month I believe. However since this rough patch

starting ALA (month 3-4) my progress with ALA and in general has

been quite good...that is until month 6-8 when it became quite bad

again (the chelation roller coaster)

In my case having my root canal removed (Month 6). I think initially

increased toxic burden and after almost 6 weeks (month 6-8), I am

feeling quite a bit better in the head mostly. But month 6-8 (I guess

the dumping ) was pretty bad but now i seem to be getting over

it..especially towards the end of this week). I chelated right

through it nothing more nothing less..

As an aside

Just to give you an idea how things have turned around in last week,

my girlfriend and I went to see Tom last night and we were both

up dancing and screaming..i could only have dreamt about this 3

months ago (actually it would have been a nightmare/adrenal problem

for me to even think about doing such adventurous things)

I even went through a couple of rounds with 50 mgs ALA but have

dropped back to 25 mgs every 3 hours and 20 mgs of dmsa every 3

hours. I know when i do 50 mgs of ALA. I can feel the

stress/exhasution in my heart and head.its too much right now

C)Timing of dmps and dosage

I was up to i think close to 80 mgs every 6-8 hours of dmps in month 4

(trying to reduce body burden so i could start the ALA).

told me that the body can only use 20 mgs at a time and 80

mgs was way to much so i followed her recomendations and I think

cutting the dmps dose actually allowed me to be able to handle the

ALA better

D) I do continuos Chelation

this is not recommnened but I found right from the first day/weeks of

chelation that i was much better not taking a break. Others have

found the opposite. You have to go with what feels right...no

calvinistic approaches (if it hurts it must be helping)...so i have

probably taken 1-2 days a month off from chelation in the last 6

months, with the exception of when i started ALA and did too much. I

stopped for almost two weeks then. I keep the doses low enough that

they do not cause discomfort...

i always wake up at 2-3 am so thats when i take my night doseage and

find it easier than doing the alarm thing which really pi$$es me off

to get woken up by an alarm

E) Jodi's comments

This is not how i understand things. I agree with your comments Darren

In fact I think its the opposite of some of Jodi's comments below (My

opinion only not trying to sound obnoxious), ; Maybe what she (Jodi)

is saying after reading this again, is you have to find the right

dosage of chealtion and if you are dosing too high I agree it will

cause problems and more movement, But in my mind the only way to deal

with mercury whther its not moving or moving is to chelate

the chelators do gather up mercury (re andy's talk on two thiols).

Thats why we chelate right after removal as your body releases

mercury. If you are not chelating during mercury dumps... that stuff

is just moving around. Its just a matter of finding out what

combination of chelators and their schedule works for you..then

chelate chelate chelate and make sure other problems are addressed

(adrenals.thyroid.diet.food allergies.supps.etc etc

per Jodi

" Yes your organs are dumping but the chelators stir up more mercury

too and are not capable of just mopping up the extra that is being

dumped.

The chelators don't just pick up the mercury and take it away - they

also cause MORE to be circulated. So it's not easier to chelate when

the dumping is going on because there is just plain more going around

the body - that's why the dumping phase makes you feel worse! And

that's why it is recommended to lower the dose of chleators during the

dumping phase to make things more bearable, not increase them.

F) Supps

I couldn't handle ACE, i think it had do something to do with the

sulfate problems . You may want to try its exclusion for a week and

see

also tyrosine can mess certain people up (AI says this see index)

and I could not handle it made me agitated and increased head

problems, even though amino acid profile said i was low and to take

it...go figure. said tyrosine gave her same problems

DMAE you may want to read AI again or search the forum, I think this

can also cause some people problems not sure

Good luck, just belive it will get better. I know i have gone though

probably 4-5 of these bad times every few months (since chelating -8

months) and each bad time seems to be followed by progressively

better times

> According to the oft-quoted chart on Page 52 of AI, it seems

> conceivable that a huge flare-up in symptoms can occur in the 6-9

> month timeframe as the body dumps mercury. With proper chelation

> and supplementation, these effects can supposedly be reduced. Of

> course, everyone is different. Maybe I need DMPS to control my

> symptoms at this point, as it is supposedly much more powerful than

> DMSA.

>

> I have been taking many of Andy's supplements daily in generous

doses

> for many months:

> ACE

> DHEA

> Omega-3 tablets plus flax oil

> Borrage oil

> Vit C

> Vit E + selenium

> Milk thistle

> BComplex

> Magnesium/Calcium

> Zinc

> Fiber tablets

> DMAE

> L-tyrosine

> Lecithin

> Taurine (recently started)

>

> About 2-3 months ago, I actually thought my overall condition, in

> terms of chronic symptoms, was gradually getting a little better.

> But starting in about June, it's been downhill. Mental dullness has

> gotten really bad. Hard to hold conversations since nothing's going

> on in front of brain. I can sit down and do analytical work by

> myself most days, using a deeper part of the brain, but interacting

> with other humans is very problematic now. I've had cognitive

> problems for many years now, but this is the most severe it's been

> and is somehow different.

> Low-dose, high frequency chelation is certainly 'doing something'.

> I'm hoping it's progressing as expected and I'm just going through

> the mercury dumping phase, instead of moving more mercury into the

> brain. Maybe both are happening.

> After the following: (a) amalgam removal, ( four rounds of

> inadvisable chelation using high oral doses of ALA, cilantro, DMSA,

> chlorella (before I discovered Andy's protocol), © several rounds

> of DMSA-only, (d) many rounds of DMSA+ALA, my symptoms fluctuated

> but I did not feel like I was getting worse. If anything, I was

> starting to get a hint better. But in the past two months, things

> have gotten noticeably worse.

> If I was moving mercury into the brain, I would have thought that it

> would have happened during the six months after amalgam removal

> when I did (a) through (d), not in months 8 & 9. I would have

> thought the 'body burden' would be fairly low by now.

>

> And in recent months I've been using lower doses -- 12.5mg ALA,

> 12.5mg DMSA -- whereas in earlier rounds I was using 25mg or 50mg.

> (Probably too high, I know, but I was able to tolerate much higher

> doses on the " inadvisable " protocol, so I figured I could start at

> 50mg and work down if necessary. And many people, including Andy

> himself, report using 50mg ALA to get well.) And 50mg was indeed

> tolerable. But now it seems like irrespective of dose, or even

> being on round or off-round, I'm just feeling and functioning

> horrible all-around most of the time.

>

> Maybe if I just keep plugging away at 12.5mg ALA / 12.5mg DMSA (or

> DMPS) I'll get through this phase and start feeling better again

> soon. Then again, maybe I'll get even worse. I have no idea what

> to think at this point. Given my problematic mental symptoms, I

> feel like I need to continue with ALA (perhaps 12.5mg or even lower

> dose) to continue removing mercury from the brain. Then again,

> that assumes that ALA will be moving more mercury out of the brain

> than into it.

>

> Darren

>