Adrenal support and chelation

[Guest guest]

One more question, sorry to ask so much here.

I am on a steroid for weak adrenals. I've decided to chelate again

after a 5-month break and am starting at 12.5mg doses of DMSA. It is

definitely straining my adrenals though.

Do others here who are on adrenal support, increase the support when

you chelate? I take quite a lot already but if I need to take more so

be it.

Many thanks,

.

[Guest guest]

> I can feel the increased adrenal stress on a round so I dose

> accordingly. I also take doses at night which I don't do off a

round.

Jay, can I ask what percentage of your HC dose you usually have to

increase by, when you do a round?

I'm finding that I'm taking up to half of my medrol dose again in HC

stress doses. They help me and I need them, but as you've said,

taking large amounts of this stuff is always a worry.

I'm feeling more sure today that the chelation is helping (I'm on day

2) and I think I will want to stick with this, so I need to work

something out. I asked about adrenal support during chelation on

Val's list but I don't think many people there are doing that. Her

warning about healing adrenals first, then chelating, keeps echoing

in my mind. I can't wait months again without chelating, if chelating

is going to help. I've really been struggling and this wonderful job

I got in January has become very difficult for me. Maybe my

priorities are skewed but I'd rather chelate than continue as I was

and risk losing my job.

Any ideas are welcome, thanks.

.

[Guest guest]

To add to my last post, I'm basically finding that I'm needing to take

5mg of HC with each and every DMSA dose. That makes 30mg. (I guess it's

worth keeping in mind that while I find HC good for stress dosing, I

was taking more than 70mg a day without relief until I switched to

medrol. I don't stress dose with that because even when I take a small

extra amount I get very dozy.)

Yes it works for me . . . but is it OK? Maybe the test will come on my

first day off chelation, when I'm not taking the stress doses -- see if

my body's OK with just the normal medrol?

I hate messing around with this stuff but I know for a fact that my

adrenals are in bad shape, so I guess I just need to do what seems to

be necessary.

If there are any other adrenal experts here, I'd very much welcome your

input too. I'd be very happy about chelating again if it weren't for

this.

Thanks,

.

Have you had a Saliva Test done.(Diagnos Techs )?

For more adrenal information , you can go here.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/adrenals_thyroid.html

Good luck with your new first round.

Kai

[Guest guest]

A couple of things

Dosing

i think as Jay is saying its important to size your chelation dose so

as little stress as possible is placed on your adrenals/thyroid..ie

if it's crashing your adrenals the dose is too high.

Like everyone, I want to get through this asap but after 8 months

have learned that its not so much as how fast I would like to go, its

how fast my body/organs/brain will let me go; so the symptoms are

better managed and I am not anxiety /depression ridden and so sore i

cannot walk with chelation problems. It has taken me 8 months to

learn this

I know my body wants to be chelated but its just how fast it can go

at it sems to vary from time to time (ie right now I just cannot

handle ALA)

Other supps/treatments to help adrenals

** HC seems to be the med of choice that works for a lot of people.

i know you have found soemthing equivalent , so thats good

** However i am sure siberian ginseng (eleuthero) which is an

adaptogen really helped my adrenals with positive energy and outlook.

I take about 500-750 mgs 3 times a day

**small meals with protein is also recommended i believe for adrenals

** some supps seemed to make me anxious and very sore (kelp and black

cherry which was prescribed for thyroid I believe) so I stopped many

of these

*vitamin C/magnesium with each chelation dosage also seems to lessen

impact and vitamin C I belive is recommeded for Adrenal support

**always getting at least 8 hrs of sleep plus avoiding high/low

temperatures and minimizing stressful interactions

** taurine and zinc... i am not sure if they are any direct benefit

for adrenals but many people are deficient in these two items and I

have read they work synergistically to help in mercury recovery

> Yes.

> I can feel the increased adrenal stress on a round so I dose

> accordingly. I also take doses at night which I don't do off a

> round.

> Jay

[Guest guest]

>

> A couple of things

>

> Dosing

> i think as Jay is saying its important to size your chelation dose

so

> as little stress as possible is placed on your

adrenals/thyroid..ie

> if it's crashing your adrenals the dose is too high.

I can try dropping down to 6mg DMSA on my doses. It's a shame because

I feel I'm getting relief on this round. I'm not going to get very

far on 6mg though, am I? What if even 6mg is too much for my system?

Is it something my body is likely to adjust to over time? I was

hoping to add ALA at some point too, as most of my symptoms are

mental/emotional.

Ginseng -- Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good one, but I've tried

that and it overstimulates my system. I discontinued an

antidepressant 2 years ago and my body has been sensitive/reactive

since then. It was very difficult getting onto HC at all initially;

even doses of 1mg were difficult. At some point I adjusted, passed a

barrier, and then I was able to increase doses quite rapidly with no

problem.

I take 3g of vitamin C with each meal. I could lower it to 1g with

each meal, and 1g with each DMSA dose, see if there's any benefit.

Indeed, it's supposed to be very good for the adrenals.

I follow the Paleolithic diet, so each meal consists of meat, veg,

and a healthy fat. I spent a lot of time actually hoping that this

diet, plus supplements, would be enough to cure me. (Alas.)

I was advised to stop taking calcium and selenium on the adrenals

list. They told me to stop ginkgo too, but it's helping me feel

better in other ways at the moment. Ashwagandha's a help too. Those

are the only herbs I take. I also take 1500mg vitamin B5 a day for

adrenals, in divided doses, and it helps too. In fact I think I'd be

very sick indeed if it weren't for diet, supplements, and those 2

herbs. Best not to think about it.

I had been taking quite a lot of zinc for a while but that didn't

seem to be doing anything, so I stopped. I haven't tried taurine. I

can do some research there.

Avoiding extreme temps -- tell me about it. Since I came off the

antidepressant I have got sick whenever the weather gets warm. That

blasted drug wrecked my adrenals worse than anything else, even

months of hard chelation with no adrenal support.

Right . . . so main plan, I will have to try 6mg DMSA during my next

round and hope that in the future I can increase. Apart from the

adrenal probs, I like how I've been feeling these past 2 days. It's

certainly an improvement.

Thanks for your help ,

.

[Guest guest]

hi linda

well if 12-12.50 mgs is not casuing too much adrenal problems, maybe

this will work for you..ie it it feels good keep doing it for a while

I ould change nothing for another round or two and se what

happens..let your body get into a routine

high temps like low temps seem to stress the body (ie i guess trying

to cool it down/warm it up) is too much adrenaline

sorry i do not know the role of dmsa in reducing depression like

symptoms.. hopefully more knowledgeable people will chime in

you do not want to make too many changes at once (ie cutting Vitamin

C); otherwise you will not know what is helping/hurting. 3 mgs is not

too much is my understanding (Unless its causing runny stool), then

it may be too much

hang in there, you're making progress just be being on this forum

>

> I can try dropping down to 6mg DMSA on my doses. It's a shame

> because I feel I'm getting relief on this round. I'm not going to

> get very far on 6mg though, am I? What if even 6mg is too much for

> my system?

> Is it something my body is likely to adjust to over time? I was

> hoping to add ALA at some point too, as most of my symptoms are

> mental/emotional.

> I take 3g of vitamin C with each meal. I could lower it to 1g with

> each meal, and 1g with each DMSA dose, see if there's any benefit.

> Indeed, it's supposed to be very good for the adrenals.

>

> I had been taking quite a lot of zinc for a while but that didn't

> seem to be doing anything, so I stopped. I haven't tried taurine. I

> can do some research there.

>

> Avoiding extreme temps -- tell me about it. Since I came off the

> antidepressant I have got sick whenever the weather gets warm. That

> blasted drug wrecked my adrenals worse than anything else, even

> months of hard chelation with no adrenal support.

>

> Right . . . so main plan, I will have to try 6mg DMSA during my

> next round and hope that in the future I can increase. Apart from

> the adrenal probs, I like how I've been feeling these past 2 days.

> It's certainly an improvement.

>

> Thanks for your help ,

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your post. I had to stop the 12.5mg doses of DMSA because

even stress dosing HC with every DMSA dose wasn't enough to support

my adrenals. It was pretty crazy.

I took several doses at 6mg but immediately felt worse. I've felt

very bad today; I think I've hammered my adrenals yet again. (I did

it only a week ago when we went on holiday and I hadn't realised what

a stress on my system it would be just to pack up, drive for several

hours, and settle into a different place.) My body can't be too happy

with me.

For the reasons I stated in my previous post, I don't think the DMSA

is working in me as it would work in a mercury-poisoned person. My

response to it isn't normal. I think I need to leave it alone and

look for other reasons for my problems. Maybe it really is mostly

thyroid. The SAD I've had for 4 winters is probably tied to that, and

chelation did nothing last winter to alleviate it in any way.

I don't know what the analysis of my hair test will say. I assume the

result will be posted here at some point. Maybe not, as the lab I

used was a different one to the standard one used here. I will have a

look if it shows up. I've been Googling DMSA and the only related

information I can find is some studies hinting at it affecting

dopamine in animals in conjunction with lead poisoning. I don't have

lead poisoning but if DMSA was giving my dopamine a boost, it would

explain my reaction to it. There seems to be very little research out

there overall and the only side effects people seem to get from DMSA

are related to taking too much and suffering toxicity issues.

I am stumped. But again, thank you for your help. I admire all the

people who tirelessly run these help lists, you are stars.

.

[Guest guest]

Forgive my ignorance but would you treat adrenal fatigue the same way as

treating for too much adrenaline being produced, is this the same thing?

Also the same question for thyroid? 

Kenny

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[Guest guest]

, i just thought of one other thing, from your comment on algin

and my response to avoid thyroid stimuluating supps...ie Kelp\

Kelp may have dug you into a hole

Algin is a form of kelp I believe. I tried kelp a few months back and

it messed me up pretty good. A lot of books on thyroid say to avoid,

I believe its for the stimulative effect to the thyroid..and again,

AI says to avoid treating thyroid until you have adreanls working

better

on 's post, I believe women are not supposed to take more than

50 mgs a day of DHEA (do not quote me on this). I think he also

mentioned pregnenolone. There is a cream that has been mentioned that

seems to work better for some people as it is more easily absorbed

MY NP (who is amazing) says if you have low thyroid you are not

absorbing supps very well as the " fire in your belly " (high body

temps)is not high enough to help with enzyme conversion/etc

I do not know if you can try castor oil packs with hot water bottle,

it seems to heat up the belly area and might help for a litle bit

BUT yes, rest and low mental and pysical excursion is very very

critical for adrenals...and avoiding extreme temps if this is possible

I think we are narrowing the problems down

well keep in mind, chelating can be very hard on adrenals and if your

thyroid is also low, then you are prone to head fog/anxiety with low

thyroid/adrenals..I know its a vicious circle of the chicken or the

egg..rememebr though try not to do too much for the thyroid until

adrenals are better

I get the impresion that you are in UK area and that DMPS is not

readily available..Many people find it easier than dmsa, I crashed

pretty bad with dmsa, got a very bad flu/bacterial infection within

the first month.

OH yes more items that are hard on adrenals...grapefruit juice

and caffeine/sugar

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for your post. I had to stop the 12.5mg doses of DMSA

> because even stress dosing HC with every DMSA dose wasn't enough>

to support my adrenals. It was pretty crazy.

>

> I took several doses at 6mg but immediately felt worse. I've felt

> very bad today; I think I've hammered my adrenals yet again. (I did

> it only a week ago when we went on holiday and I hadn't realised

> what a stress on my system it would be just to pack up, drive for

> several hours, and settle into a different place.) My body can't

> be too happy with me.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Forgive my ignorance but would you treat adrenal fatigue the

same way as treating for too much adrenaline being produced, is this

the same thing?

> Also the same question for thyroid? 

> Kenny

Adrenal fatigue means the body is not producing enough cortisol. I

had a saliva test done and it showed that I was at a point where I

needed to take hydrocortisone because other gentler supplements

didn't, and wouldn't, work for me. I am told that when the body is

low on cortisol, it produces too much adrenaline. I actually seem to

feel better when I'm producing more adrenaline, it had been happening

for quite a while. You can get hooked on adrenaline.

Not sure what you are asking about thyroid. I am taking Armour for

hypothyroidism. Hperthyroidism is when there are too many thyroid

hormones in your bloodstream. I don't know much about that because

most of the people I talk to are hypo to some degree.

HTH,

.

[Guest guest]

Do I read correct that you started your 3 day round with 12,5 mg DMSA doses

and later in the same round reduced your dose to 6 mg DMSA ?

Did you take your dose every 4 hours and none later ?

Did you finish the 3 days ?

Kai

--------------------------------------------------

Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM

To: <frequent-dose-chelation >

Subject: Re: Adrenal support and chelation

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for your post. I had to stop the 12.5mg doses of DMSA because

> even stress dosing HC with every DMSA dose wasn't enough to support

> my adrenals. It was pretty crazy.

>

> I took several doses at 6mg but immediately felt worse. I've felt

> very bad today; I think I've hammered my adrenals yet again. > .

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Do I read correct that you started your 3 day round with 12,5 mg

DMSA doses

> and later in the same round reduced your dose to 6 mg DMSA ?

> Did you take your dose every 4 hours and none later ?

> Did you finish the 3 days ?

> Kai

Hello Kai,

Yes I messed this one up. I dose every 4 hours with DMSA. Managed

this until 10pm on day 2, then at that point decided I'd hammered my

adrenals enough. The next 2 doses I took were 6mg. This morning I

felt like I'd been hit by a train. I think switching dosages down in

the middle of a round was a mistake. I've been reading links and old

posts by Andy here and I think that is what he would say. So I guess

I only managed about half a round this time. I'm feeling OK this

afternoon at least, but then I also increased my afternoon steroid

dose a little because my cortisol has been getting low in the

evenings. Seems to have been a good move.

I am going to wait 3 days and then try again, properly. And see how I

feel after the round. I'm worried about my adrenals but I need to

find out first if I'm getting benefits from chelation.

Many thanks,

.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm not honestly sure what Algin is made of. It's sold at the other

mercury forum I belong to and a lot of people there use it. I trust

them to know about its contents. I never noticed it doing anything

for me one way or the other; they claim that it helps absorb mercury

in the gut so that it doesn't get re-absorbed by the body there.

I got my adrenals optimised about 6 weeks ago, with the medrol.

Ramping up on Armour has been a little hard on them but tolerable;

apparently many people doing this need to take more HC during the

process, and then when they optimise their thyroid hormones they find

their cortisol needs drop off again. What you saw of me here was a

sudden strain on my adrenals with the DMSA. My body isn't going to be

able to cope naturally with that while I'm on the medrol, so I was

having to stress dose. I needed quite a lot of HC and that still

wasn't quite enough. My basal temperature this morning was unusually

low, so the strain was showing there too.

As far as hormones go, I know I'm low in DHEA. I tried progesterone

cream for 2 months without results either way. At the moment I am

waiting for my appointment with an endocrinologist next week because

if I'm going to supplement hormones, I'd like a doctor's support, and

I'd like proper tests. I may be doing all these other things on my

own but I'll take the help when I can get it.

I'm not sure if we are narrowing the problem down, but it's been

great talking with you and I'm reassured that I'm doing a lot of

things right.

I'm not sure if I want to try DMPS. I think I'd like to stick with

the DMSA. That comes from the US too, via my parents, who can send me

a box that doesn't get caught in customs (it's cheaper from there).

Presumably DMPS is hard on the adrenals too -- presumably all these

chelators are. I know ALA was.

Don't eat grapefuit or drink fruit juice . . . don't have

caffeine . . . I am a sugar addict but at the moment I've

been " clean " for a week. That wasn't a factor in my struggle with the

DMSA at least.

By the way, do you know about hair test analyses here? I sent my

results to the recommended analysis site in NZ. Do they post here?

Thanks again ,

.

[Guest guest]

--------------------------------------------------

Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:43 PM

To: <frequent-dose-chelation >

Subject: Re: Adrenal support and chelation

>

>>

>>

>> Do I read correct that you started your 3 day round with 12,5 mg

> DMSA doses

>> and later in the same round reduced your dose to 6 mg DMSA ?

>> Kai

>

>

> Hello Kai,

>

> Yes I messed this one up. I dose every 4 hours with DMSA. Managed

> this until 10pm on day 2, then at that point decided I'd hammered my

> adrenals enough.

KAI ====== This is where you should have stopped your round.

The next 2 doses I took were 6mg. This morning I

> felt like I'd been hit by a train. I think switching dosages down in

> the middle of a round was a mistake.

KAI =====It sadly was a huge mistake . This is not part of Andy's

protocol. We would hate you hurting yourself and then think it is the

protocol that doesn't work. It sure would have affected your adrenals , and

not in a good way.

I've been reading links and old

> posts by Andy here and I think that is what he would say. So I guess

> I only managed about half a round this time. I'm feeling OK this

> afternoon at least, but then I also increased my afternoon steroid

> dose a little because my cortisol has been getting low in the

> evenings. Seems to have been a good move.

>

> I am going to wait 3 days and then try again, properly. And see how I

> feel after the round. I'm worried about my adrenals but I need to

> find out first if I'm getting benefits from chelation.

KAI ======Please read TK's General Rules on Chelating before you start a

new round and follow it carefully when you do start. I would suggest you

start with 6mg DMSA and stick to it for a couple of rounds before upping it.

My experience and many others is that chelation cannot be taken lightly. You

have to prepare yourself well by reading exactly what can and cannot be

done. Wishing you a " no-side-effect " next round. It is possible.;-)

>

> Many thanks,

> .

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>