Re: Re: 12mg dosage too high - 4th round always gets you

[Guest guest]

Hi Suzanne,

That's a good point about the fourth round. I had to

take a couple weeks off two or three times after a

third or fourth round at 3mg or 6mg. So even at these

dosages I think there is the caveat that side effects

may creep up and that some longer breaks may be

necessary.

To address some other comments on this issue from

Homme, I don't think the consensus on this

board is that " DMSA

doesn't even increase total excretion very much (since

it increases

only urinary, not bilary excretion) " . In my case I

have been almost completely cured from some pretty

severe stuff with 25 rounds of DMSA alone. Suffice to

say you will piss mercury, and if you piss enough of

it, there won't be any left in extracellular spaces.

Now that I am adding in ALA, I am having symptoms

again, so of course the mercury is still in

intracellular areas and will make me sick when

mobilized. That said, I went from being unable to

climb the stairs without having a dangerous allergic

attack to being able to bike 30 miles with no symptoms

- entirely due to DMSA and some sweating.

Also wrote, " The posts about using a low

enough dose so that you don't feel any side effects

are interesting, but I wonder if it's possible. "

Unless the pharmacodynamics of DMSA are somehow

different at very low doses (calling Andy, calling

Andy...), there is every reason that it should

gradually remove mercury the same way it does at

higher doses.

And we all know that increases in excretion are not

linear with higher doses, unlike side effects. So at

12mg you might expect to see 4 times the side effects

of 3mg with less than twice the excretion. Why make

yourself feel four times sicker than normal to get

chelation done twice as fast? At low doses I got well

in only 25 rounds, which seems on the short side, and

I was really, really sick. So I even wonder whether

chelating with side effects really slows things down

dramatically by messing up really key stuff like you

digestion, adrenals, thyroid, etc.

The reason I tried using such low doses to start is

that I heard so many adverse effects stories from

people on this board that 12mg seemed like something

that should scare a reasonable person. One woman had

the same liver problems as me and ended up having

major complications requiring surgery. It seemed as

if it was taken for granted that there should be side

effects, even really serious side effects. I'm also

sure there are some people who are so sick that they

will have issues at any dose. But I wouldn't be

surprised if there are some people who would do OK (or

make it through) at lower doses who are suffering

needlessly or not making it at the recommended

starting doses.

I tried low dosing because it seemed prudent, and I

can tell you for sure that as far as DMSA is

concerned, it worked. I was taking 35mg of DMSA with

no side effects at all two weeks ago. Now that I have

added in ALA, I am definitely feeling after round

effects (psychological and mild physical) at 3mg ALA

and 35mg DMSA. So I will continue ALA at this level

until the side effects go away. That took 5 or 10

rounds at 3 and 6mg DMSA. If it takes 30 rounds for

ALA, I think that would be the most prudent approach.

The only way we will really know for sure how well

this will work for other people is if they try it!

The same goes for my end of round hydration protocol.

This is 4-6 liters of liquids consumed during the 6

hours following the last dose of a round. So far I

have tested two round with hydration (no side effects

whatsoever), and two without hydration (noticeable

effects). I am hoping to hear from others who are

testing this while using low doses. It has really

helped me.

Good luck chelators, and get well!

Dave

--- petshopgirl6 wrote:

> Dave,

>

> Just wanted to say that I totally agree with what

> you said, and think

> you broke it down perfectly... start very low (lower

> than what a lot

> of people may start with), then follow Dean's rule

> of doing 4 rounds

> with no side effects before raising the dosage (and

> even then, bump

> it up slowly).

>

> You wrote: " The side effects can creep up on you

> after a couple

> rounds and then hit so hard it takes weeks to

> recover. "

>

> Yes, this has been true for me too, to some extent.

> I started

> chelation about 3 weeks ago (DMPS), with what I

> thought was a safe,

> low dosage -- 10mg. Although I had some side

> effects from this

> dosage from the get-go, they were tolerable -- but

> what I didn't

> realize at the time was that they were gradually

> creeping up on me so

> that by the 4th round, I felt terrible. I have

> since then had to

> take a small break, and when I resume for the 5th

> round, I will cut

> back to 5mg. This is probably the ideal dosage I

> should've *started*

> with.

>

> I agree that the board should consider revising

> (lowering) its

> starting dosage recommendations, as you wrote:

>

> " I think this board should advocate 3-6mg as

> a starting dose for a person weighing 165, and then

> raising doses only as " almost no symptom " status is

> achieved for 4 rounds. "

>

> After all, if a person does well on this initial low

> dosage, they can

> always increase it soon afterwards. That's better

> than starting off

> too high, feeling lousy later, and then reverting

> back to a lower

> dose later, as what I'm doing. (BTW, I'm not

> necessarily complaining

> about what happened to me, as it's been educational

> to me as a newbie

> as to what chelation can do to me, as well as what

> effects different

> dosages have on me... now I know firsthand what

> people here in the

> group were talking about when they discussed side

> effects, etc!)

>

> My recommendation for newbies is the same as what

> you wrote, and I

> agree that the board should consider revising its

> starting dose

> recommendations (start at 3-6mg, and only increase

> after 4 rounds of

> virtually no side effects) -- eg. in the TK file,

> etc.

>

> Suzanne