Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I noticed that most people are here for mercury chelation and I would like to use Andy's protocol for arsenic. I just want to make sure I'm in the right place and someone might be able to offer guidance as to some slight modifications and if they would be a good idea. Since I'm not dealing with an Hg issue, can I go straight to using 12.5 mg of ALA with 12.5 mg of DMSA? I have had 2 hair analysis done, but only one was from DD and I can post the results if anyone wants to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation buckigym wrote: I noticed that most people are here for mercury chelation and I would like to use Andy's protocol for arsenic. I just want to make sure I'm in the right place and someone might be able to offer guidance as to some slight modifications and if they would be a good idea. ---------Yes, you're in the right place, but you are correct that the majority of people here are dealing with mercury. I have mercury and arsenic. Did you ever identify your source of exposure to arsenic? Mine was in my well water.--------Jackie Since I'm not dealing with an Hg issue, can I go straight to using 12.5 mg of ALA with 12.5 mg of DMSA? ---------So I assume you mean you have no amalgam fillings in your mouth? Because you cannot take any chelators if you still do. That includes checking under crowns and root canals. Otherwise, if you do only have arsenic and have had no recent exposure to mercury, then you could start with ALA right away, and actually, you could use it by itself. In Andy's Hair test book, he's says ALA is the best chelator for arsenic, with DMPS being a better accessory chelator than DMSA in this case. But if you tolerate ALA alone, then that's all you need for arsenic. There wouldn't be anything wrong with using DMSA with the ALA, but it might not be necessary. If you may have had any lead exposure in your life time, then using DMSA would be wise, because it is the best chelator for lead. And lastly, we never recommend starting two chelators at the same time, because then you can't tell which one is giving you what side effects. Some people feel better on ALA alone, and some people feel better with both, and most do DMSA alone for awhile first, and then add in ALA. But in your case, I would suggest trying just one chelator at a time, to see how you react to each. If you truly only have arsenic to deal with, and if you tolerate ALA alone, then that is all you will need.----------Jackie I have had 2 hair analysis done, but only one was from DD and I can post the results if anyone wants to see them. -----------It's always interesting to see the hair tests, so yes, please post it! And you may want to get Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book, because he covers all the metals, including arsenic, much more thoroughly than in Amalgam Illness. It would be interesting to see if your symptoms match up.--------Jackie http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 > > I noticed that most people are here for mercury chelation and I would > like to use Andy's protocol for arsenic. I just want to make sure I'm > in the right place and someone might be able to offer guidance as to > some slight modifications and if they would be a good idea. > > ---------Yes, you're in the right place, but you are correct that the majority of people here are dealing with mercury. I have mercury and arsenic. Did you ever identify your source of exposure to arsenic? Mine was in my well water.--------Jackie ***Thank you so much for your reply. I have read Andy's book on hair mineral analysis. I bought it after the first analysis came back with arsenic levels of .481 and the only source I have determined as the likely culprit was also well water. My dad drilled a new well about 10 years ago but that was 5 years before I moved out so I had quite a few years of chronic low dose exposure before the deeper well was put in. > > > > Since I'm not dealing with an Hg issue, can I go straight to using > 12.5 mg of ALA with 12.5 mg of DMSA? > > ---------So I assume you mean you have no amalgam fillings in your mouth? Because you cannot take any chelators if you still do. That includes checking under crowns and root canals. > > Otherwise, if you do only have arsenic and have had no recent exposure to mercury, then you could start with ALA right away, and actually, you could use it by itself. In Andy's Hair test book, he's says ALA is the best chelator for arsenic, with DMPS being a better accessory chelator than DMSA in this case. But if you tolerate ALA alone, then that's all you need for arsenic. ***Right, I've never had a filling or even a cavity, but I did have one tooth capped after taking a nasty spill and bite of concrete. My sister is a hygienist and has assured me that the composite used for this purpose is safe. > > There wouldn't be anything wrong with using DMSA with the ALA, but it might not be necessary. If you may have had any lead exposure in your life time, then using DMSA would be wise, because it is the best chelator for lead. > > And lastly, we never recommend starting two chelators at the same time, because then you can't tell which one is giving you what side effects. Some people feel better on ALA alone, and some people feel better with both, and most do DMSA alone for awhile first, and then add in ALA. But in your case, I would suggest trying just one chelator at a time, to see how you react to each. If you truly only have arsenic to deal with, and if you tolerate ALA alone, then that is all you will need.----------Jackie > > > > I have had 2 hair analysis done, but only one was from DD and I can > post the results if anyone wants to see them. > > -----------It's always interesting to see the hair tests, so yes, please post it! And you may want to get Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book, because he covers all the metals, including arsenic, much more thoroughly than in Amalgam Illness. It would be interesting to see if your symptoms match up.--------Jackie > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html ***Thank you for the advice, I will try ALA first. Here are my hair test results from DDI only. Aluminum 2.8 < 7.0 Antimony 0.031 < 0.050 Arsenic 0.074 < 0.060 Beryllium < 0.01 < 0.020 Bismuth 0.011 < 2.0 Cadmium 0.026 < 0.10 Lead 0.11 < 1.0 Mercury 0.14 < 1.1 Platinum < 0.003 < 0.005 Thallium < 0.001 < 0.010 Thorium < 0.001 < 0.005 Uranium 0.046 < 0.060 Nickel 0.02 < 0.40 Silver 0.04 < 0.15 Tin 0.11 < 0.30 Titanium 0.48 < 1.0 Calcium 231 300-1200 yellow low Magnesium 35 35-120 green low Sodium 44 12-90 white high Potassium 55 8-38 yellow high Copper 10 12-35 yellow low Zinc 140 140-220 green low Manganese 0.08 0.15-0.65 red low Chromium 0.60 0.20-0.40 yellow high Vanadium 0.078 0.018-0.065 yellow high Molybdenum 0.13 0.028-0.056 red high Boron 1.3 0.30-2.0 green high Iodine 2.9 0.25-1.3 yellow high Lithium 0.008 0.007-0.023 green low Phosphorus 183 160-250 green low Selenium 1.1 0.95-1.7 green low Strontium 1.8 0.50-7.6 green low Sulfur 51600 44500-52000 green high Barium 0.17 0.26-3.0 yellow low Cobalt 0.004 0.013-0.050 red low Iron 12 5.4-14 green high Germanium 0.032 0.045-0.065 yellow low Rubidium 0.059 0.007-0.096 green high Zirconium 0.14 0.02-0.42 green high I've been supplementing with MSM (1000mg/day) and 3g of vitamin C a day as well. Also daily taking 50mg of B vitamin complex and a multi-vitamin. I also take a couple drops of Lugol's 5% iodine every 3 or 4 days which I think is what stirred everything up in the first place. I appreciate hearing about any experience others might have with arsenic chelation. Thanks again Jackie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation buckigym wrote: > > I noticed that most people are here for mercury chelation and I would > like to use Andy's protocol for arsenic. I just want to make sure I'm > in the right place and someone might be able to offer guidance as to > some slight modifications and if they would be a good idea. > > ---------Yes, you're in the right place, but you are correct that the majority of people here are dealing with mercury. I have mercury and arsenic. Did you ever identify your source of exposure to arsenic? Mine was in my well water.--------Jackie ***Thank you so much for your reply. I have read Andy's book on hair mineral analysis. I bought it after the first analysis came back with arsenic levels of .481 and the only source I have determined as the likely culprit was also well water. My dad drilled a new well about 10 years ago but that was 5 years before I moved out so I had quite a few years of chronic low dose exposure before the deeper well was put in. =====Did you ever have the well water tested? My arsenic level was .30, so yours was quite high, but I think in HTI, Andy has a couple examples higher than that. But I agree, chronic low dose exposure is enough to do it. Your hair test below shows a much lower level, how much time was in between tests and what did you do during this time?--------Jackie > > > > Since I'm not dealing with an Hg issue, can I go straight to using > 12.5 mg of ALA with 12.5 mg of DMSA? > > ---------So I assume you mean you have no amalgam fillings in your mouth? Because you cannot take any chelators if you still do. That includes checking under crowns and root canals. > > Otherwise, if you do only have arsenic and have had no recent exposure to mercury, then you could start with ALA right away, and actually, you could use it by itself. In Andy's Hair test book, he's says ALA is the best chelator for arsenic, with DMPS being a better accessory chelator than DMSA in this case. But if you tolerate ALA alone, then that's all you need for arsenic. ***Right, I've never had a filling or even a cavity, but I did have one tooth capped after taking a nasty spill and bite of concrete. My sister is a hygienist and has assured me that the composite used for this purpose is safe. ========I would make absolutely sure there is no amalgam underneath this. It is sometimes used to " build up " the tooth for the crown or cap to fit. Your sister is right that the composite wouldn't have any mercury, its whether any was used underneath it.----------Jackie > > There wouldn't be anything wrong with using DMSA with the ALA, but it might not be necessary. If you may have had any lead exposure in your life time, then using DMSA would be wise, because it is the best chelator for lead. > > And lastly, we never recommend starting two chelators at the same time, because then you can't tell which one is giving you what side effects. Some people feel better on ALA alone, and some people feel better with both, and most do DMSA alone for awhile first, and then add in ALA. But in your case, I would suggest trying just one chelator at a time, to see how you react to each. If you truly only have arsenic to deal with, and if you tolerate ALA alone, then that is all you will need.----------Jackie > > > > I have had 2 hair analysis done, but only one was from DD and I can > post the results if anyone wants to see them. > > -----------It's always interesting to see the hair tests, so yes, please post it! And you may want to get Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book, because he covers all the metals, including arsenic, much more thoroughly than in Amalgam Illness. It would be interesting to see if your symptoms match up.--------Jackie > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html ***Thank you for the advice, I will try ALA first. Here are my hair test results from DDI only. Aluminum 2.8 < 7.0 Antimony 0.031 < 0.050 Arsenic 0.074 < 0.060 ======It looks like your arsenic is only slightly elevated now, so that's a big improvement over your first test of .481. Again, how much time has passed in between these two tests? And you haven't done any chelation yet?-------Jackie Beryllium < 0.01 < 0.020 Bismuth 0.011 < 2.0 Cadmium 0.026 < 0.10 Lead 0.11 < 1.0 Mercury 0.14 < 1.1 Platinum < 0.003 < 0.005 Thallium < 0.001 < 0.010 Thorium < 0.001 < 0.005 Uranium 0.046 < 0.060 Nickel 0.02 < 0.40 Silver 0.04 < 0.15 Tin 0.11 < 0.30 Titanium 0.48 < 1.0 Calcium 231 300-1200 yellow low Magnesium 35 35-120 green low Sodium 44 12-90 white high Potassium 55 8-38 yellow high ========It's easier to read with the actual color test, but with your cal and mag low, and your sodium and pot. up, this could be a sign of possible adrenal problems. You might want to do some reading about that, and consider a saliva test, if you fit the symptoms.----------Jackie Copper 10 12-35 yellow low Zinc 140 140-220 green low Manganese 0.08 0.15-0.65 red low Chromium 0.60 0.20-0.40 yellow high Vanadium 0.078 0.018-0.065 yellow high Molybdenum 0.13 0.028-0.056 red high Boron 1.3 0.30-2.0 green high Iodine 2.9 0.25-1.3 yellow high Lithium 0.008 0.007-0.023 green low Phosphorus 183 160-250 green low Selenium 1.1 0.95-1.7 green low Strontium 1.8 0.50-7.6 green low Sulfur 51600 44500-52000 green high Barium 0.17 0.26-3.0 yellow low Cobalt 0.004 0.013-0.050 red low Iron 12 5.4-14 green high Germanium 0.032 0.045-0.065 yellow low Rubidium 0.059 0.007-0.096 green high Zirconium 0.14 0.02-0.42 green high ======12 in the green and white (middle) misses a counting rule by one, and also 3 in the red misses by one, so this technically meets counting rule number 5 for deranged mineral transport for possible mercury poisoning. (Missing two rules by one count is rule number 5 in HTI.) Are you sure you haven't had any mercury exposure? Vaccines? You can read about other exposures in AI and HTI. Your low hair mercury probably indicates that you are a poor excretor, and that chelation would be a good idea, whether its for arsenic or mercury. There are also things that can be gleened from the ratios on the hair test, so it would be nice to see those too.---------Jackie I've been supplementing with MSM (1000mg/day) ========I would stop this NOW. MSM is very sulfury, and is a single thiol, which will only mobilize metals, but not chelate them out of your body. Do some reading about this in AI, and especially page 199, where Andy explains single and double thiols. I'm sure this is also covered in the ANDY INDEX and the onibasu.wiki.-----------Jackie and 3g of vitamin C a day as well. ========This is good, and should be spread out throughout the day. Some of us even take much more than that. You could try increasing your dosage to bowel tolerance, and then back off a bit from that. (Bowel tolerance is the amount that gives you loose stools.)--------Jackie Also daily taking 50mg of B vitamin complex and a multi-vitamin. =======Zinc, magnesium, and Vit E, besides Vit C, are Andy's top 4. The B complex is good too, and should be divided throughout the day also. Make sure your multi doesn't have anything bad in it for you. Many need to avoid things like copper and iron. And some multi's now have ALA.-----------Jackie I also take a couple drops of Lugol's 5% iodine every 3 or 4 days which I think is what stirred everything up in the first place. ========If the Lugol's is making you feel worse, then stop taking it. Others have said that they think iodine has stirred things up, but Andy says it doesn't chelate, and in your case, I would much more highly suspect the MSM, which we know is sulfury and can cause problems.---------Jackie I appreciate hearing about any experience others might have with arsenic chelation. Thanks again Jackie! ========You're welcome. And like I said, I have arsenic and mercury. I chelated with DMSA only for a long time, and when I finally got DMPS, it certainly felt different, so I assume it's pulling the arsenic that the DMSA didn't touch. I need to try ALA again. The last time I did, it knocked me on my butt, telling me I still have mercury, or arsenic, or both.-------Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 My dad drilled a new well about > 10 years ago but that was 5 years before I moved out so I had quite a > few years of chronic low dose exposure before the deeper well was put in. > > =====Did you ever have the well water tested? My arsenic level was .30, so yours was quite high, but I think in HTI, Andy has a couple examples higher than that. But I agree, chronic low dose exposure is enough to do it. Your hair test below shows a much lower level, how much time was in between tests and what did you do during this time?--------Jackie %%%I didn't have the water tested, but my dad claims to have had it tested and he said everything came back fine, but I doubt he specifically had arsenic testing. My dad is the type of person who thinks that what he doesn't know won't hurt him... %%%The only things I was taking during the time between the tests was iodine. I was eating more brazil nuts though so I suppose that is considered extra selenium, but I attribute the difference in ranges in the 2 different places that did the test (somewhat). Test #1 done May 17 was by Body Balance which is not comprehensive at all, and test #2 was done on July 10 by DDI. > ***Right, I've never had a filling or even a cavity, but I did have > one tooth capped after taking a nasty spill and bite of concrete. My > sister is a hygienist and has assured me that the composite used for > this purpose is safe. > > ========I would make absolutely sure there is no amalgam underneath this. It is sometimes used to " build up " the tooth for the crown or cap to fit. Your sister is right that the composite wouldn't have any mercury, its whether any was used underneath it.----------Jackie %%%My sis has access to all my dental records, including X-rays so I'll have her make sure. > > Aluminum 2.8 < 7.0 > Antimony 0.031 < 0.050 > Arsenic 0.074 < 0.060 > > ======It looks like your arsenic is only slightly elevated now, so that's a big improvement over your first test of .481. Again, how much time has passed in between these two tests? And you haven't done any chelation yet?-------Jackie > > > Beryllium < 0.01 < 0.020 > Bismuth 0.011 < 2.0 > Cadmium 0.026 < 0.10 > Lead 0.11 < 1.0 > Mercury 0.14 < 1.1 > Platinum < 0.003 < 0.005 > Thallium < 0.001 < 0.010 > Thorium < 0.001 < 0.005 > Uranium 0.046 < 0.060 > Nickel 0.02 < 0.40 > Silver 0.04 < 0.15 > Tin 0.11 < 0.30 > Titanium 0.48 < 1.0 > > Calcium 231 300-1200 yellow low > Magnesium 35 35-120 green low > Sodium 44 12-90 white high > Potassium 55 8-38 yellow high > > ========It's easier to read with the actual color test, but with your cal and mag low, and your sodium and pot. up, this could be a sign of possible adrenal problems. You might want to do some reading about that, and consider a saliva test, if you fit the symptoms.----------Jackie %% will do > > > Copper 10 12-35 yellow low > Zinc 140 140-220 green low > Manganese 0.08 0.15-0.65 red low > Chromium 0.60 0.20-0.40 yellow high > Vanadium 0.078 0.018-0.065 yellow high > Molybdenum 0.13 0.028-0.056 red high > Boron 1.3 0.30-2.0 green high > Iodine 2.9 0.25-1.3 yellow high > Lithium 0.008 0.007-0.023 green low > Phosphorus 183 160-250 green low > Selenium 1.1 0.95-1.7 green low > Strontium 1.8 0.50-7.6 green low > Sulfur 51600 44500-52000 green high > Barium 0.17 0.26-3.0 yellow low > Cobalt 0.004 0.013-0.050 red low > Iron 12 5.4-14 green high > Germanium 0.032 0.045-0.065 yellow low > Rubidium 0.059 0.007-0.096 green high > Zirconium 0.14 0.02-0.42 green high > > ======12 in the green and white (middle) misses a counting rule by one, and also 3 in the red misses by one, so this technically meets counting rule number 5 for deranged mineral transport for possible mercury poisoning. (Missing two rules by one count is rule number 5 in HTI.) Are you sure you haven't had any mercury exposure? Vaccines? You can read about other exposures in AI and HTI. Your low hair mercury probably indicates that you are a poor excretor, and that chelation would be a good idea, whether its for arsenic or mercury. %%%I had a tetanus shot on April 18 which was why I decided to have the first test. Plus I've had a flu shot once a year for maybe 3 of the last 5 years. That's all that jumps out at me... > > There are also things that can be gleened from the ratios on the hair test, so it would be nice to see those too.---------Jackie %%%ratios Ca/Mg ratio 6.6 expected 4-30 Ca/P ratio 1.26 expected 1-12 Na/K ratio .8 expected .5-10 Zn/Cu ratio 14 expected 4-20 An/Dd ratio >9999 expected >800 > > I've been supplementing with MSM (1000mg/day) > > ========I would stop this NOW. %%% I'll definitely stop taking this. > > Also daily taking 50mg of B vitamin complex and a > multi-vitamin. > > =======Zinc, magnesium, and Vit E, besides Vit C, are Andy's top 4. The B complex is good too, and should be divided throughout the day also. Make sure your multi doesn't have anything bad in it for you. Many need to avoid things like copper and iron. And some multi's now have ALA.-----------Jackie > > > > I also take a couple drops of Lugol's 5% iodine every > 3 or 4 days which I think is what stirred everything up in the first > place. > > ========If the Lugol's is making you feel worse, then stop taking it. Others have said that they think iodine has stirred things up, but Andy says it doesn't chelate, and in your case, I would much more highly suspect the MSM, which we know is sulfury and can cause problems.---------Jackie %%% I actually feel really good taking the iodine and it's the only thing I've been doing consistently supplement wise since I had my first hair test. I've only taken the MSM for 2 weeks or so. > > I appreciate hearing about any experience others might have with > arsenic chelation. Thanks again Jackie! > > ========You're welcome. And like I said, I have arsenic and mercury. I chelated with DMSA only for a long time, and when I finally got DMPS, it certainly felt different, so I assume it's pulling the arsenic that the DMSA didn't touch. I need to try ALA again. The last time I did, it knocked me on my butt, telling me I still have mercury, or arsenic, or both.-------Jackie > %%Good luck with everything! I hope I answered all your questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.