Re: New to group, husband has kidney pain - Dean.

[Guest guest]

>>>I know Andy does not believe that low back pain is kidney related,

>>But he does. The kidneys are responsible for keeping electrolyte balance. He

>>is saying that _toxic induced kidney damage_ is not painful.

>Andy says that low back pain is unlikely to be kidney related,

Well, I'll repeat that that's inconsistent with his recognition that

electrolytes are involved - clearly, that would indicate that the kidneys are

involved (along with the adrenal hormones managing electrolytes). His focus

has been on rebutting those who suggest that chelation caused back pain is a

signal the the kidneys are dying from mercury poisoning, due to the liberation

of mercury by the chelator.

>while I observe that it is almost always kidney related (well chronic low back

pain). I know this because when people start the kidney cleanse the back pain

resolves in most cases.

I don't know what a " kidney cleanse " is or what it does.

>>>but I can tell you that when people are put on the kidney cleanse the

>>>pain resolves a few weeks in 95% of them.

>>What pain are we talking about here?

>The kidney pain.

You described, " Kidney pain is wider, lower and softer, with most of the pain

in the morning. It is much easier to live with than adrenal referred pain. "

Ok, so this is not the lower back pain that we were talking about with Cari's

husband? ... Ah, maybe I get it, you see two basic kinds of back pain. One

related to kidneys and the other related to adrenals. Because his pain was

throughout the back, you believe that it was related to the adrenals radiating

pain from T12 throughout the whole back, rather than the kidneys. Is that it?

Ok, so am I understanding that you see chelation as causing damage to organs,

particularly the adrenals, the thyroid and the kidneys, and that this potential

damage needs to be diverted by adrenal support, thyroid support and " kidney

cleanses " ? (I still don't know what that last one is.) If I'm understanding,

you also believe, in a sort of chiropractic way, that in the face of chelation,

those organs will lead to back problems in the area of the nerves that enervate

the organs. Am I right?

If so, perhaps there is something to this, I don't know. I'd just urge that it

not become the only lens through which to see things. So:

(1) Andy's suggestion of the use of electrolytes, which is related to both

kidneys and adrenals, might not be inconsistent with your view. The only

difference is that from his perspective, mercury is causing _centrally

mediated_ failure of the organs to function (the organs are fine, the problem

is in the brain), so until chelation has progressed, supporting the organs

themselves can have some effect, but depending on the situation it might be

minimal. That's why, for example, many of us find ACE does not work and needed

to introduce isocort or HC. The adrenals _just won't make any more HC_, no

matter how you support them, since the brain signal is not there. Same for

thyroid.

(How a " kidney cleanse " might help with the kidney's ability to manage

electrolytes, I don't know, since I don't know what a kidney cleanse is yet.)

(2a) Just from my personal experience, and as I mentioned in a previous post,

my pain around T12 which was very much like what you were describing as

" adrenal pain " and which I mistook for such over a long period of time, was

stomach/digestion related. If I had thought about it differently, I might have

resolved it earlier.

(2b) My lower back pain was what the doctors call " spondylosis " , a degenerative

disk problem and often associated with mercury poisoning. I only found out

years after that spondylosis is an _auto immune problem_! So, looking at this

as a kidney problem (this was not chelation induced, so Andy's suggestion of

electrolytes was not an issue here) would not be sufficient to recognize the

(possibly mercury induced) immune issues that may be involved in back pain.

Dave.