Re: Not Ready for Chelation?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am relatively new to the group and just finished having my

amalgams removed/replaced last week.

----- Good. You have a good start. I hope that you have recovered

from the stresses associated with amalgam removal.

----- I'm sure that you know, but just to remind you not to start

with ALA chelation until 3 months later.

It was done safely and I have no crowns or root canals so am

mercury free (in my mouth anyway). I plan to look into possible

cavitations in the future but do not know at this time if they are an

issue or not for me.

>

> A friend of mine swears by her alternative doctor and has been

begging me to see him as she is very worried about me. He practices

nutrition response testing and I figured it could not hurt to have

another opinion. Well now, of course, I am just so confused and

scared. I was prepared to start chelating 12.5 mg DMSA every 4 hours

for 3 days on and 4 days off.

He says that is way too aggressive for me and that my mercury levels

are really high (which I already knew).

----- I agree that 12.5 mg might be too much for you considering your

condition. It would likely be better for you to start with doses of

6.25 mg.

----- Andy always says that if anyone has trouble with a round, to

stop the round. Doses of 6.25 mg are so small that difficulties are

not likely, but you can always stop if you feel a need to.

----- Most of the most sensitive people in the group have been ok

with 6.25 mg. Some have had to decrease to 3 mg or so. Your body

will tell you in the first round.

----- The challenge test that you had does not give any reflection of

body burden. I know that doctors use those tests to tell patients

that their body burden is high - but they are misleading. Listen to

the interview with Andy Cutler and Mark Schauss in the links section,

or read the transcript of the interview in the files section. Andy

explains challenge testing very clearly in that interview.

He recommends treating more naturally (supplements, lymphatic

drains, ionic footbaths).

----- The supplements that some of these alternative doctors

recommend can be VERY harmful to us mercury poisoned folk. Please be

cautious. I have no experience with lymphatic drains, but would want

to hear what he means. Ionic footbaths do nothing to help remove

metals from the body.

This is completely opposite of what my doc says as he was

recommending IV DMPS chelation 1/wk for 8 weeks (which I told him I

would not do).

----- The doctor recommending IV DMPS clearly has no understanding of

how to make mercury poisoned people better.

I realize that this is normal to have conflicting views on how to

deal with mercury but I feel so unsure of how to proceed.

>

> I am very symptomatic. I was diagnosed with MS 12 years ago

------ My first MS symptoms started about 17 years ago. I have been

doing fairly well with the MS, but have big problems with pain and

fatigue, adrenal problems, heat intolerance.

and did well for 10 years and not so well the past 2 years

(depression, fatigue, anxiety, insomnia, dizziness, sleep apnea,

heavy right leg, bladder frequency/urgency, muscle cramps, tinnitus,

brain fog, fleeting numbness, etc.).

----- As you study Andy's 2 books, read the material in the files and

links, and talk to people in the group you will find supplements and

possibly diet interventions that will help with some of those

symptoms. In some cases people need some Rx medications to help with

symptoms.

Just prior to my first amalgam removal (and before I read AI), I

followed the advice in an IAOMT dental detox book and took 2 doses of

100 mg of ALA and have been numb up to my waist ever since. That was

a month ago. The numbness has shifted a bit from being heaviest in

my pelvic/buttocks area to now being heaviest in my calves and feet.

I hope the fact that the numbness shifted is at least a good sign

that my body is trying to deal with it and that it is not permanent.

It is somwhat painful and very uncomforable and makes walking very

difficult.

>

------ I lost feeling from my waist down in 1991. It did last for a

long time, but eventually got better. These things do take a long

time to heal, but having experienced recovery myself, I wouldn't call

them permanent. I know how scarey it can be. (When it first

happened I couldn't walk for a while).

> My doc (an MD who practices integrative medicine) is the one who

did an IV DMPS challenge test and diagnosed me with Mercury

poisoning.

----- I would stay away from him.

Of course now I would never agree to an IV challenge test like that

but I feel fortunate that it did not cause me problems. It is the 2

doses of ALA that caused my current problems. I hoped that was an

indicator that I might do okay with low, frequent dose DMSA chelation?

----- I think that your reaction to ALA could be considered a

positive test for metal poisoning.

----- Yes, you will do well with low, frequent dose DMSA chelation.

If DMSA doesn't agree with you, DMPS could be considered. ALA will

be needed to add eventually.

----- You have found the safe way to chelate in this group.

I do supplement (natural thyroid, PTC, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Omegas

3/6/9, zinc, multi-mineral, tryptophan, natural progesterone,

testosterone pellet).

>

---- I'm not sure what PTC is?

---- As you start to read some more you will find Andy's basic list

of supplements and starting on those will help. One of the big ones

that I see you are missing is magnesium. You will also find specific

supplements for specific problems.

> I am just not sure what to do now?

----- Start with rounds of 6.25 mg DMPS. If you find that dose too

high, try 3 mg rounds.

----- Work on getting the basic supplements on Andy's supplement list

and read through " Amalgam Illness " to find other supplements that

would be suitable for you.

----- Read the diet related material in the files and Andy's AI book

to see if diet modification might help with symptoms.

---- Ignore the doctors.

Should I wait a while before starting chelation?

----- There really is no need to. Chelation is what will ultimately

get you better, and the low doses recommended are really low. It is

of course up to you. Listen to your instincts (not fear).

I did have my doc order a Hair Elements Test through DDI last week.

Should I wait for those results?

----- It wouldn't hurt to do a round or two before you get the

results. We already know that you are metal toxic. There may be

some useful things in the hair test that will give you more things to

work on, but you already have lots to do!

I am just so scared and really need encouragment/advice from those

who have been in my position.

>

-----I can understand how scared you are. I wasted a whole year

after amalgams were removed because I started at 25 mg doses and

didn't know enough to lower the dose. You will be ok with 6.25 mg

and if you want you can start with 3 mg doses.

-----Best

-----

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation wrote:

Hi all,

I am relatively new to the group and just finished having my amalgams

removed/replaced last week. It was done safely and I have no crowns or root

canals so am mercury free (in my mouth anyway). I plan to look into possible

cavitations in the future but do not know at this time if they are an issue or

not for me.

------------Congratulations on being mercury free! That is an accomplishment

in and of itself! You now have the first big step behind you

----------Jackie

A friend of mine swears by her alternative doctor and has been begging me to

see him as she is very worried about me. He practices nutrition response testing

and I figured it could not hurt to have another opinion. Well now, of course, I

am just so confused and scared. I was prepared to start chelating 12.5 mg DMSA

every 4 hours for 3 days on and 4 days off. He says that is way too aggressive

for me and that my mercury levels are really high (which I already knew). He

recommends treating more naturally (supplements, lymphatic drains, ionic

footbaths). This is completely opposite of what my doc says as he was

recommending IV DMPS chelation 1/wk for 8 weeks (which I told him I would not

do). I realize that this is normal to have conflicting views on how to deal with

mercury but I feel so unsure of how to proceed.

----------Yes, unfortunately, there are many conflicting views. But I

honestly believe that Cutler understands this better than anyone, and I would

strongly advise you to follow his advice about supplements and chelation. I

don't know how many times I have heard people come on this board and say,

" Cutler was right " . His protocol just makes sense, and as long as you start

with really low doses, it is very safe to try. I have never heard of 12.5mg as

being " aggressive " . Most consider it too low. And the thing is, if you don't

like how you feel after one dose, or any dose, you can just end the round. And

you'll never know how you feel on it, unless you try it. Many people feel

better on round, when at the right dose. I felt great on round when I started

at 12.5mg of DMSA. And if you are really concerned, you could start even lower,

like 6mg.

And to play devil's advocate (I don't know these doctors, they may mean well),

these doctors won't make any money if you chelate yourself using DMSA. It

sounds like they are offering services that would keep you coming back. Most

people can do chelation without a doctor, and usually when one is needed, it is

for things like hormones that might require a prescription. So many of these

alternative doctors will claim to be experts in mercury toxicity, but as you

have already experienced with the ALA, their advice can be downright dangerous.

And I recall Andy saying something like " many of them know just enough to be

dangerous " , so that always sticks in my head, and I have experienced that

myself, also being given ALA with amalgams still in.

And I'm sure your friend means well, but what is she seeing this doctor for?

She needs to understand that mercury is nothing to fool around with, and must be

handled correctly. It isn't worth harming yourself further, just to not hurt

her feelings. She should understand that.----------Jackie

I am very symptomatic. I was diagnosed with MS 12 years ago and did well for

10 years and not so well the past 2 years (depression, fatigue, anxiety,

insomnia, dizziness, sleep apnea, heavy right leg, bladder frequency/urgency,

muscle cramps, tinnitus, brain fog, fleeting numbness, etc.).

---------Have you addressed any of the above things, such as the sleep apnea

and insomnia? Sleep is very important, and so is getting enough oxygen! And

some of them could be adrenal problems, have you ever had them tested? You can

do saliva hormone testing without a doctor.----------Jackie

Just prior to my first amalgam removal (and before I read AI), I followed the

advice in an IAOMT dental detox book and took 2 doses of 100 mg of ALA and have

been numb up to my waist ever since. That was a month ago.

------------Have you notified your dentist about this? It also wouldn't hurt

to report this to the authors, the Ziff's, because they really should be made

aware of this, and I guess to the IAOMT too, if they are promoting

it.---------Jackie

The numbness has shifted a bit from being heaviest in my pelvic/buttocks area

to now being heaviest in my calves and feet. I hope the fact that the numbness

shifted is at least a good sign that my body is trying to deal with it and that

it is not permanent. It is somwhat painful and very uncomforable and makes

walking very difficult.

--------- also has MS and pain in her legs, so hopefully she will

comment. I don't recall if she has had numbness. Her pain is better when she

is taking DMPS, so I would encourage you to try chelation and see if it

helps.-----Jackie

My doc (an MD who practices integrative medicine) is the one who did an IV

DMPS challenge test and diagnosed me with Mercury poisoning. Of course now I

would never agree to an IV challenge test like that but I feel fortunate that it

did not cause me problems. It is the 2 doses of ALA that caused my current

problems. I hoped that was an indicator that I might do okay with low, frequent

dose DMSA chelation?

---------A reaction to a chelator is confirmation that you have a heavy metal

problem, and chelation should help, as long as it's done properly.-------Jackie

I do supplement (natural thyroid, PTC, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Omegas 3/6/9,

zinc, multi-mineral, tryptophan, natural progesterone, testosterone pellet).

------------What is PTC? I see you are supporting other hormones, but have

you tested your adrenals? And I don't see magnesium, which is one of Andy's top

four, and could help with the muscle cramps you mentioned earlier. And there

are lots of other things you could try for your various symptoms. One basic one

I see missing is a B complex.----------Jackie

I am just not sure what to do now? Should I wait a while before starting

chelation? I did have my doc order a Hair Elements Test through DDI last week.

Should I wait for those results? I am just so scared and really need

encouragment/advice from those who have been in my position.

----------Between your symptoms and reaction to the ALA, and I also assume

your challenge test showed mercury, I don't think there's any doubt that you are

toxic and need to chelate. I don't think you need to wait for the results of

the hair test, but it is still good to do, as it can give lots of other valuable

information.

As far as when to start, of course that is up to you, and I would suggest you

do more reading here to get more comfortable with the idea. Remember, we

suggest much lower doses than other protocols, and some people choose to start

even lower, such as 6mg, just to be careful. And many people feel much better

while on round, so it can be a pleasant surprise, and you won't know until you

try it.

And as far as these other doctors, my experience has been that many of them

think they have to *fix* a bunch of things, before you begin chelation. Andy

says to work on the problems *as* you chelate, and some problems might not

correct until you have done some chelation, so spending lots of time trying to

fix things first can be a waste of time and money. And it looks like you have a

good start on supplements and hormones, so I think you have done some of this

prep work already. I know it's scary to do something new, but sometimes you

just have to bite the bullet and go for it! We're here to support you, and

starting at a low dose should be fine, and just stop if you don't like it.

Remember, we're talking way lower doses than those other protocols, and what you

had in your IV or the ALA experience. Good luck---------Jackie

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

Thank you both Jackie and for all of your answers to my concerns! I feel

in my heart that chelation is my only hope of getting better and I think I will

go with your suggestion of starting at 6.25 mg. The capsules I am getting are

12.5 mg and the pharmacy said they can't be split into smaller doses. I have

read that people break them apart and dissolve them in something acidic in order

to split the dose. The pharmacy said no, but I guess they just don't get it. I

bought some organic lemon nectar--do you think that would work?

PTC is phosphatidylcholine and you both recommended magnesium which I do take in

my multi-mineral. I may need to add more magnesium though. I understand that

multiminerals are not recommended since they often contain things we shouldn't

have. Mine does contain a small amount of copper (no iron) which is one of the

reasons why I wanted a Hair Elements Analysis since while I know Mercury is sky

high and lead and aluminum are elevated (from my challenge test), I know nothing

about copper levels. I will look into a B-complex vitamin too.

I do have a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea but I really hate it. I use it when

I can. It makes me feel very claustrophobic and I am often too congested at

night to use it. My insomnia is much better than it used to be and I do get a

lot of sleep (just full of interuptions so not super restful).

I did tell my dentist (3 times) about the ALA recommendation in the IAOMT book.

He kind of shrugged it off and said to make sure I get on a good multi-vitamin.

I did not feel like being confrontational since all 3 times he was getting ready

to drill out my fillings. I also called the IAOMT but did not get to talk to a

live person. I may still try to do that as I do think they should know that

their recommendations will cause harm to some.

Thanks again for all of your support and encouragement. I will keep you posted.