questions---new to chelation

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I am currently living in Switzerland, am here for Lyme treatment. My doc here

has started

me on a chelation protocol. I didn't know much about chelation when I started,

still don't-

-am now collecting info. Since starting this chelation protocol (L-Methionine,

zinc,

selenium, Alfen-Algen-Chlorella mix) I have felt really awful; horrible

headaches, vision

disturbances that are really scary, weird emotional things where the pain in my

head hits

and then I just dissolve into an emotional mess, isolation/depression---massive

weird

need to avoid all people, etc. Have ordered Cutler's book but delivery here is

sometimes

very slow as I'm in a small village (no street addresses).

My doc here had me tested for heavy metals (DMPS test) which sent me into a

total tailspin

the day of the test and indicated to him I had a lot of mercury in my brain.

According to

that test I am high in mercury, copper (nearly three times the 'high' number)

and

Palladium, but he's not worried about the copper. My arsenic levels are also

higher than

he'd like. They didn't test for lead but I spent every spring when I was a kid

scraping and

repainting my dad's boat with 'good' bottom paint, stuff my dad got that had

been

declared illegal--I'm sure it was lead paint. I spent hours every May on my back

scraping

and sanding.

I've read the introductory stuff on the site but my comprehension is not the

best. I think I

remember reading somewhere that L-Methionine might not be a good thing but can't

find

the post, or know why it wasn't good--if I read it right. Or remember it

correctly. I asked

my doctor but he said L-Methionine was fine, a good thing, a natural amino acid

or

something that doesn't cause any problems. Yet when I stop taking it, the

headaches are

better and more importantly the weird eye stuff goes away.

I had all my amalgam fillings (7) replaced in April at the clinic here in

Switzerland. They

used a high powered suction/vacuum system and replaced them with composite

filings. I

still have a porcelain crown, a relatively new installation that replaced an old

gold crown.

I'm not sure if there was metal underneath it, will check when I get back to the

States in

July. I don't have any root canals, do have all my wisdom teeth (fully emerged,

viable).

I got really sick again with Lyme about three years ago, right after having the

crown

redone and a couple of fillings replaced with amalgam--my longterm dentist not

so gently

implied I was an idiot for being worried about the safety of amalgam. Around the

same

time I went to Egypt, got a bunch of travel shots, and also got bit by something

while on

the Nile. After I hit the wall I found a doc that finally figured out the Lyme

part of the

picture (original bite at 15, the same time I got five of the original amalgams

in one visit,

my first cavities). I'm beginning to suspect the mercury stuff is as big a part

of things as

the Borrelia.

Any help/info appreciated.

in Switzerland

[Guest guest]

Comments below.

(If you dont' understand something, please post again. We would be happy to

respond.)

Posted by: " revdahn " teresaluttrell@... revdahn

Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:59 pm (PDT)

Hello,

>I am currently living in Switzerland, am here for Lyme treatment. My doc here

has started me on a chelation protocol. I didn't know much about chelation when

I started, still don't- -am now collecting info. Since starting this chelation

protocol (L-Methionine, zinc, selenium, Alfen-Algen-Chlorella mix) I have felt

really awful; horrible headaches, vision disturbances that are really scary,

weird emotional things where the pain in my head hits and then I just dissolve

into an emotional mess, isolation/depression---massive weird need to avoid all

people, etc. Have ordered Cutler's book but delivery here is sometimes very

slow as I'm in a small village (no street addresses).

- this is _exactly_ what happens when you chelate improperly. Look, the

point of chelation is to move neurotoxins (our of your body). Anything that

moves neurotoxins is inherently dangerous. You _must stop now_ if you want to

avoid permanent neurological damage. I mean it, go to onibasu.com, search on

the autism-mercury list and this list, and you will find long lists of stories

like this. All of your symptoms are mercury poisoning symptoms from this

ignorant and highly dangerous approach that you doctor is using.

>My doc here had me tested for heavy metals (DMPS test) which sent me into a

total tailspin the day of the test and indicated to him I had a lot of mercury

in my brain.

What it should have indicated to you is that this man has no compunction

against injuring you.

>According to that test I am high in mercury, copper (nearly three times the

'high' number) and Palladium, but he's not worried about the copper. My arsenic

levels are also higher than he'd like.

This test will tell you nothing. There are no norms, for one thing, and the

result isn't even reliable unless it was a 24 hour collection and you checked

to make sure that the creatinine level was right. You will need to see p.176

of Andy's book for the table of creatinine levels.

What _is_ clear from your reaction to methionine and chlorella, is that you are

highly mercury toxic. Neither of these are chelators, but they _will_ do a

good job of moving mercury around, provoking mercury poisoning symptoms, and

causing neurological damage.

>They didn't test for lead but I spent every spring when I was a kid scraping

and repainting my dad's boat with 'good' bottom paint, stuff my dad got that

had been declared illegal--I'm sure it was lead paint. I spent hours every May

on my back scraping and sanding.

>I've read the introductory stuff on the site but my comprehension is not the

best. I think I remember reading somewhere that L-Methionine might not be a

good thing but can't find the post, or know why it wasn't good

It is a mono-thiol (SH). A chelator is a di-thiol (two SH groups). The former

will move mercury around the body without removing it. The second has a chance

to remove it.

>--if I read it right. Or remember it correctly. I asked my doctor but he said

L-Methionine was fine, a good thing, a natural amino acid or something that

doesn't cause any problems. Yet when I stop taking it, the headaches are better

and more importantly the weird eye stuff goes away.

Your speak of a lack of comprehension, but your comprehension is rather a damn

sight better than your doctor's.

>I had all my amalgam fillings (7) replaced in April at the clinic here in

Switzerland. They used a high powered suction/vacuum system and replaced them

with composite filings. I still have a porcelain crown, a relatively new

installation that replaced an old gold crown. I'm not sure if there was metal

underneath it, will check when I get back to the States in July.

Do not do anything but supportive treatments until you are certain that _all_

amalgam has been removed. In the mean time you can go to directlabs.com and

order a hair test. You want the " Hair elements " test, _not_ the " Toxic hair

elements " test. You can also begin to put your supplements in place (see

below).

>I don't have any root canals, do have all my wisdom teeth (fully emerged,

viable).

>I got really sick again with Lyme about three years ago, right after having

the crown redone and a couple of fillings replaced with amalgam--

While it's possible that you had lyme, this is a disease that is vastly

over-diagnosed. Given the proximity to your dental work, I would suppose it

more likely that you were reaction to the mercury that you were exposed to when

the work was done.

>my longterm dentist not so gently implied I was an idiot for being worried

about the safety of amalgam.

Just as your doctor implied you were an idiot for your very well founded

worries about what he was doing and your concern about the resulting symptoms.

>Around the same time I went to Egypt, got a bunch of travel shots,

That's when it happened to me - when I went to India as a kid and got a dozen

shots in a couple of months.

>and also got bit by something while on the Nile. After I hit the wall I found

a doc that finally figured out the Lyme part of the picture (original bite at

15, the same time I got five of the original amalgams in one visit, my first

cavities).

I'm finding this more likely to be amalgam illness by the minute.

> I'm beginning to suspect the mercury stuff is as big a part of things as the

Borrelia.

Maybe more of problem.

>Any help/info appreciated.

> in Switzerland

Here is the supplement list you want to get started on. The critical ones are

zinc, magnesium, as much vitamin C as you can take, vitamin E, CoQ10, Cod liver

oil or flax oil, and some liver support like milk thistle. ( " mcg " is

" micrograms " (1/1,000,000), not milligrams (1/1,000). " mg " is milligrams.)

B50 or B100 once or twice /d

Buffered C, 4g/d

Mg, 100mg 4x/d and increase to 200 in a few weeks

Mg Supps is done by taking 100-200mg (adult) with each meal and possibly at

bedtime. The amount used is adjusted to the max level that is not laxative.

Ca should also be givven so the ratio of Ca to Mg intake from all sources

(food & pills) is somewhere between 1:2 and 2:1.

Vit E, 400-1000IU/d

CoQ10, 75-200mg/d

Zinc, 20mg + 1mg/lb

Flax Oil, 10+g/d (1-2 tbsp)

Borage oil, 1+g/d (1-2 tsp)

Milk thistle, 1-2 cap/meal

Folic acid, 400-800mcg/d

Make sure any selenium is in some form like selenomethionine or selenium yeast.

50-300mcg a day total.

Try Lecithin, Choline & B12 to see how you respond.

.... and don't forget to order that hair test.

Dave.

[Guest guest]

Hi there!

Absolutely NO CHLORELLA ALLOWED!!!!!!! Andy is very particular about

this one - also no Cilantro in any form. I have no idea about

L-Methionine but if you feel better without it you should stop it.

Selenium should be preferably in the selenomethionine form.

DO NOT start chelation if you are not sure of any more presence of amalgams in

your mouth, under crowns, bridges etc. It will make you horribly sick instead -

nerve damage etc! I am sure others with even more specific knowledge and

experience will add their advice. PLEASE be careful, not all doctors are

vigilant. Also, not all can tolerate DMPS Challenge tests.

Hang in there, you will get safe advice here.

Good luck.

>

> Hello,

>

> I am currently living in Switzerland, am here for Lyme treatment. My

doc here has started

> me on a chelation protocol. I didn't know much about chelation when

I started, still don't-

> -am now collecting info. Since starting this chelation protocol

(L-Methionine, zinc,

> selenium, Alfen-Algen-Chlorella mix) I have felt really awful;

horrible headaches, vision

> disturbances that are really scary, weird emotional things where the

pain in my head hits

> and then I just dissolve into an emotional mess,

isolation/depression---massive weird

> need to avoid all people, etc. Have ordered Cutler's book but

delivery here is sometimes

> very slow as I'm in a small village (no street addresses).

>

> My doc here had me tested for heavy metals (DMPS test) which sent me

into a total tailspin

> the day of the test and indicated to him I had a lot of mercury in

my brain. According to

> that test I am high in mercury, copper (nearly three times the

'high' number) and

> Palladium, but he's not worried about the copper. My arsenic levels

are also higher than

> he'd like. They didn't test for lead but I spent every spring when I

was a kid scraping and

> repainting my dad's boat with 'good' bottom paint, stuff my dad got

that had been

> declared illegal--I'm sure it was lead paint. I spent hours every

May on my back scraping

> and sanding.

>

> I've read the introductory stuff on the site but my comprehension is

not the best. I think I

> remember reading somewhere that L-Methionine might not be a good

thing but can't find

> the post, or know why it wasn't good--if I read it right. Or

remember it correctly. I asked

> my doctor but he said L-Methionine was fine, a good thing, a natural

amino acid or

> something that doesn't cause any problems. Yet when I stop taking

it, the headaches are

> better and more importantly the weird eye stuff goes away.

>

> I had all my amalgam fillings (7) replaced in April at the clinic

here in Switzerland. They

> used a high powered suction/vacuum system and replaced them with

composite filings. I

> still have a porcelain crown, a relatively new installation that

replaced an old gold crown.

> I'm not sure if there was metal underneath it, will check when I get

back to the States in

> July. I don't have any root canals, do have all my wisdom teeth

(fully emerged, viable).

>

> I got really sick again with Lyme about three years ago, right after

having the crown

> redone and a couple of fillings replaced with amalgam--my longterm

dentist not so gently

> implied I was an idiot for being worried about the safety of

amalgam. Around the same

> time I went to Egypt, got a bunch of travel shots, and also got bit

by something while on

> the Nile. After I hit the wall I found a doc that finally figured

out the Lyme part of the

> picture (original bite at 15, the same time I got five of the

original amalgams in one visit,

> my first cavities). I'm beginning to suspect the mercury stuff is as

big a part of things as

> the Borrelia.

>

> Any help/info appreciated.

>

> in Switzerland

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. no chlorella. This made me feel the way you describe. It

moves mercury but doesn't remove it from the body. So you get sicker.

selenium is helpful to some people. Not in my case, zinc is fine. I'd

skip the methionine too. Andy does not recommend it:

" Methionine makes homocysteine and then cysteine after it gives up

it's methyl group. Elevated homocysteine causes atherosclerosis. You

can get methyl groups from other sources, usually adequate from most

diets, If you really need it, take it as SAMe directly. Methionine is

no more a mercury chelating agent than cysteine and can be very

harmful if used as one " page 159 Amalgam Illness

Don't do anymore dmps tests. As you see, they are not good

(see www.dmpsbackfire.com).

Those vaccines you had would also contribute to your mercury load.

Most of them contain thimerosal mercury preservative.

I would stop the chelation this guy gave you. He does not seem to

understand safe chelation. It's really quite common, most doctors

don't. No matter what country your in.

There are supplements you can take to help you feel better while you

wait for Andy's book. I would not proceed with any further attempts at

chelation until you know what his protocol is, and then you can try

this low dose, frequent dose attempt.

I am mercury/Lead/Cadmium toxic. Chlorella did a number on me, and

it's what led me to Andy's protocol.

It's fine to treat the lyme, and you should.

Ironic he's not worried about high copper. Copper can be poisonous too

if there's too much. Many of us that are mercury toxic have too much

copper because copper is part of amalgam. Amalgams placed in the 80's

through now, are high copper amalgam, which contains more copper than

the older amalgam used before the 80's. This formula also happens to

leak more mercury than the earlier one. So some of us are full of

copper and mercury. I'm sure you have Lead too, just from what your

telling me.

Chelation would be done with dmsa/ala. By weight. Beginning at a very

low dose and given every three hours during the day and four hours at

night. For three days, then you take at least four days off. You can

begin with just dmsa to lower your body levels of mercury before

adding alpha lipoic acid.

However, before doing any of that: you want to be on certain vitamins

and minerals. (see below)

Supplements for Chelation by weight:

Calcium: 5-20 mg/pound divided into four doses over the day

Essential Fatty Acid (fish oil or flax, see notes above) 1 to 3 tbsp/day

Magnesium: 10 mg/pound divided into four doses over the day

Milk Thistle: 1/4-1 cap (20-80 mg) per dose/ 4 times a day

Molybdenum: 5-20 mcg/pound divided into four doses over the day

Selenium: 1-2 mcg/pound/divided into four doses over the day

Vitamin A: 5 RDA's/day. Be sure to consider if your EFA is a source

Vitamin B: 12.5-25 mg/4 times a day

Vitamin C: 5 to 20 mg/pound per dose/4 times a day

Vitamin E: 500 IU/day

Zinc: 1 mg per 2 lbs + 20 mgs divided into four doses over the day.

Andy Cutler also suggests in some cases that glycine, taurine,

lecithin, carotenes and lycopenes be considered as supplements. Note

that Pangborn suggests that taurine be in place before a number of

these recommended supplements are taken. (these are optional)

Also begin one supplement at time to watch for reactions or

intolerance. Have them in place two weeks before beginning chelation.

Of course making sure there's no amalgam under that crown....

While you await the book and do more reading....these vitamins might

help you feel better. As well as stopping those detox supplements.

Also that dentist who implied you were an idiot..he was an idiot for

installing mercury into people's skulls and thinking it's ok.

And it's probably not a coincidence that you got lyme around the same

time you got amalgams or mercury vaccines. Mercury lowers your immune

function making it hard to fight off infection and bacteria.

-- In frequent-dose-chelation , " revdahn "

wrote:

>>

> Since starting this chelation protocol (L-Methionine, zinc,

> selenium, Alfen-Algen-Chlorella mix) I have felt really awful;

horrible headaches, vision

> disturbances that are really scary, weird emotional things where the

pain in my head hits

> and then I just dissolve into an emotional mess,

isolation/depression---massive weird

> need to avoid all people, etc. Have ordered Cutler's book but

delivery here is sometimes

> very slow as I'm in a small village (no street addresses).

>

> My doc here had me tested for heavy metals (DMPS test) which sent me

into a total tailspin

> the day of the test

> I think I remember reading somewhere that L-Methionine might not be

a good thing but can't find the post

>

[Guest guest]

First off--thank you, thank you, thank you to all who responded to my

situation. And I have a few more questions/comments/clarifications:

> Do not do anything but supportive treatments until you are certain

> that _all_

> amalgam has been removed. In the mean time you can go to

> directlabs.com and

> order a hair test. You want the " Hair elements " test, _not_ the

> " Toxic hair

> elements " test.

No more L-Methionine or chlorella stuff for me.

I tried ordering this test online a few times, it keeps telling me

there's been an error in the code, gives me a bunch of microsoft code

stuff as explanation that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it can't be

ordered internationally?

> It (L-Methionine) is a mono-thiol (SH). A chelator is a di-thiol

> (two SH groups). The former

>

> will move mercury around the body without removing it. The second

> has a chance

>

> to remove it.

>

" The second has a chance to remove it " ---what improves that chance? I

imagine it needs to bind with something...sorry I don't have the book

yet, I'm sure this is answered there, a quick answer here would help

me a lot however! I think I remember it binds with C from some of the

reading I've done, is that correct? The supplements you list---are

they things that bind the mercury too?

> Here is the supplement list you want to get started on. The

> critical ones are

>

> zinc, magnesium, as much vitamin C as you can take, vitamin E,

> CoQ10, Cod liver

>

> oil or flax oil, and some liver support like milk thistle. ( " mcg " is

>

> " micrograms " (1/1,000,000), not milligrams (1/1,000). " mg " is

> milligrams.)

>

I am already on a lot of this, will add in Vit E and restart the milk

thistle. My doc took me off that after muscle testing the supplements

I was on when I came to the clinic, which surprised me. Thanks for

giving specifics re how much of what to take and how often.

> This test (DMPS) will tell you nothing. There are no norms, for one

> thing, and the

>

> result isn't even reliable unless it was a 24 hour collection and

> you checked

>

> to make sure that the creatinine level was right. You will need to

> see p.176

>

> of Andy's book for the table of creatinine levels.

>

They didn't do a 24 hour collection. Just one, 50 minutes after the

DMPS injection. I felt okay for about 20 minutes after giving the

urine sample, then completely crashed. The test results state

creatinine levels in a couple different places. Are they supposed to

be checked before or concurrently?

> Make sure any selenium is in some form like selenomethionine or

> selenium yeast.

>

> 50-300mcg a day total.

>

I can't tell from the package what kind of selenium this is. Should I

stop taking it until I get some of the right stuff when I'm back in

the States?

> Try Lecithin, Choline & B12 to see how you respond.

>

Will do that in July. Most supps here not available to just buy--have

to go through a doc, and I'm not feeling very confident at the moment

with the one I'm using. :-) They are also doing treatments on my

kidneys to support/stimulate them, I know milk thistle is for liver,

any suggestions for kidney support?

My doc in the States also diagnosed adrenal failure, Hashimoto's

Thyroiditis, a trashed immune system, Epstein Barr infection (both

past and current infection), Candida (shows on blood tests, not on

stool tests) and hormone dysregulation. When I can get the directlab

order to work should I get any other tests that you find helpful as

far as getting the whole picture? Docs have put me on a bunch of

different things and I've gotten a bit better but improvement is

really slow. Cortisol didn't seem to make any difference in how I

felt, whether it was compounded or the traditional stuff. Ditto the

thyroid meds.

Okay, that's it I think...thanks again for all your help. In a weird

way I almost hope mercury is the main issue, at least that's

something that can be treated and solved, right? Even though it can

be along road? Which brings up one last question--how long might it

take to detox all the mercury once I start?

in Switzerland

[Guest guest]

I am not sure where you live, but call the Lab...

they are most helpful and can probably get it to you.

The supplements don't bind mercury, only dmsa, ala or dmps can do

that. Those are sulphur based thiols. What improves the chance is

proper dosing and timing. The mercury will bind to the chelator. No

doubt there. Vitamin C is just a good antioxidant that helps protect

the body from mercury. It does not bind it. However, the supplements

replace all the things your body is not getting enough of due to

mercury interfering or disrupting them. They also provide antioxidants

to reduce the oxidative damage mercury is causing.

You don't need to redo those tests at all. It's fine to run basic

blood work ups and check creatinine and liver function if you feel the

need. A regular physician can do that. But many of us don't. I don't

know why he would take you off milk thistle. You need it to protect

and heal your liver from the mercury. Another reason to stop seeing

this guy.

Yes, unless you can verify the selenium, get a different one. It

should say seleniomethionine on it, it might also say " not derived

from yeast or yeast free " . Other selenium supplements are made from

yeast, which mercury toxic people don't need any more of. If you can't

get selenium there right now, eat a few brazil nuts every day.

Kidney support, lots of water! Kidney damage is not usually a factor

in chronic mercury poisoning. Only in acute poisoning, so I " m not sure

why they feel your kidneys' need all this help.

I would not be confidant with this doctor/clinic either. Consider not

wasting any more money on them. They are not going to cure you.

As for the thyroid/adrenals, sometimes this depends on what you take

and how often. If they put you on synthetic T4, you may not have felt

better. Armour or Natural Thyroid usually yields better results. If

you have Hashi's meaning they found thyroid antibodies, you need to be

on something or your body will destroy your thyroid. A good place to

do some reading about endocrine is www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

You may need more hormones than just cortisol and thyroid. Some of us

need progesterone, or testosterone, or DHEA, etc. saliva hormone

panels are useful for figuring out what you need. Diagnose Tech or ZRT

labs for that. Not sure but you may need to wait till you get home.

Epstein Barr as I have read it is from vaccinations. Antiviral

protocols can be helpful with this. Something to look at for a later

date. Mom's on Autism-Mercury could help you with this. How did they

diagnose you with Epstein Barr? Did they do a antibodies testing?

Most of us have candida issues. We have to actively treat it with

antifungals. You can use natural ones. Immune dysregulation is also a

by product of mercury and vaccination. there are supplements to boost

immune function as well. Removing mercury certainly helps that.

How long does it take to detox...3-5 years. Some very few lucky people

can do it in a year. But honestly, it usually takes longer. We are on

2 years here, and gradually improving. Also doing hormones, yeast

treatment, supplements etc. It's worth it entirely..and yes, you can

recover from it. Andy recovered himself. I myself am 100 times better

than I was before I began all this.

>

> First off--thank you, thank you, thank you to all who responded to my

> situation. And I have a few more questions/comments/clarifications:

>

> I tried ordering this test online a few times, Maybe it can't be

> ordered internationally?

> " The second has a chance to remove it " ---what improves that chance?

I imagine it needs to bind with something...

> restart the milk thistle. My doc took me off that after muscle

testing the supplements

>> >>The test results state creatinine levels in a couple different

places. Are they supposed to be checked before or concurrently?

> I can't tell from the package what kind of selenium this is.

Should I stop taking it until I get some of the right stuff when I'm

back in the States?

> > I'm not feeling very confident at the moment

> with the one I'm using. :-) They are also doing treatments on my

> kidneys to support/stimulate them, I know milk thistle is for liver,

> any suggestions for kidney support?

> > My doc in the States also diagnosed adrenal failure, Hashimoto's

> Thyroiditis, a trashed immune system, Epstein Barr infection (both

> past and current infection), Candida (shows on blood tests, not on

> stool tests) and hormone dysregulation. When I can get the

directlab order to work should I get any other tests that you find

helpful as far as getting the whole picture?

[Guest guest]

Three words: & nbsp; Find another dentist!!!

I was made to feel like an idiot/hypochondriac;fourteen years ago when I had

amalgams placed in my mouth. Here I am, mercury toxic, with all the symptoms you

mentioned.

You have to be proactive and seek out wise guidance--which you'll find here.

Good luck,

Robyn

~~~~~~~~

>> my longterm dentist not so gently implied I was an idiot for being worried

about the safety of amalgam.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Do I recall correctly that you're from Seattle? Just making sure you're the

person I'm thinking of. The reason I mention it is because I went to a

really great nurse practitioner named who has worked closely

with Cutler and is very versed in helping people with chelation. She also

states that she is versed in treating Lyme, though I can't attest to that

personally. I live in Texas and last month flew up to see her. So far I'm

thrilled with the results. Here's her web site: http://www.npjulie.com

<http://www.npjulie.com/> . Some other people in this group have seen her

and have given good reports as well. Also, Rosner (lymebook.com) uses

her as his only health practitioner and went through Cutler's protocol with

her help.

Take care,

Dana B