RE: Can I offload this? very, very long, sorry...

[Guest guest]

Vicki,

How absolutely dreadful for you and your DH.

My first thought (and possibly only thought..although it is

percolating thru my head and I might come up with others) on reading

this, is that your SIL is suffering some kind of mental illness; after

all it is genetic. It might not have to be Alzheimers. She certainly

seems irrational enough for that to be considered. What one would

*do* about it is another matter, if she refuses to acknowledge

anything is wrong it is difficult to get her diagnosed let alone

treated.

Her behaviour might be some kind of breakdown after looking after your

MIL. Maybe she would consider that more favourably than an illness.

Suggest to her (get your DH or someone more neutral to do it) that she

really has done such a sterling job of looking after her mother that

it has depleted her own resources and maybe a checkup is in order?

Then tip a wink to whoever the doctor seeing her, that he should look

for more than just physical disorders.

Just an idea, I'm probably way off beam!

Ruthie

> Well, we're back from our holiday (had a lovely, lovely time): and

here's a

> howdy do! Since we're on the subject of difficult in-laws, we're

having a

> complete nightmare with my sister in law. What on *earth* do we do

about

> this?? Please bear in mind that I'm going to try to be objective in

all

> this, and I do acknowledge that she's a deeply unhappy woman.

However, she

> is now sorely testing my patience and temper and the limits of my

tact (not

> great at the best of times!)

>

> Some history: DH's family is father, mother, him (no. 1)

(no. 2)

> died of leukaemia aged 11 and SIL. His SIL has always suffered from

low

> self-esteem, in DH's view - and never really left home. FIL runs a

pub just

> outside Wakefield, and the kids went to different schools - the boys

to one

> and SIL for some unknown reason, to another. The family didn't

handle

> 's death at all well - FIL insisted that all photos and

memorabilia

> were out of sight. All his clothes/toys were burnt, and he is never

talked

> about. They never received any kind of help, and DH has only just

> discovered where his brother is buried.

>

> SIL now claims to have been bullied at school, but DH says the first

he ever

> heard of this was last year, when she had a big fit about how it was

his

> fault she was bullied, because he never beat the bullies up (they

were at

> different schools, remember.) Not that he would have, anyway but

that's by

> the by. DH went to Bradford uni and got a computing degree - was

first in

> his family to get a degree - and moved to London to work. SIL went

to

> Bradford uni and went home every weekend. Got a history degree,

went back

> home and trained as a primary school teacher. Claims to have been

unable to

> get a permanent job and did supply teaching for a couple of years

(this in

> the face of teacher shortages, in an area of very high social and

economic

> deprivation where teacher turnover is phenomenally high), all the

while

> living at home.

>

> Tragically, MIL got Alzheimers at the age of about 52, and SIL was

her prime

> carer (FIL too busy running the pub!) As MIL got worse, SIL gave up

any

> pretence of a teaching career, and stayed at home to care for her

mother.

> There is absolutely no doubt that SIL had a really shitty deal in

this: her

> Dad gave her very little support, preferring to pretend that his

wife would

> recover and therefore ignoring many of SIL's sacrifices and paying

little

> attention to her needs. We offered as much help as we could, but we

do have

> small children and couldn't take on the full-time care burden of

MIL. DH

> now says he wouldn't have wanted to take on full-time care even

without the

> kids, and that if he'd been single, he wouldn't have moved home to

help.

> This isn't heartlessness - though it may be cowardice! - MIL knew

she would

> get this disease - her mother and 5 out of 6 of her siblings all had

it, all

> young. She talked about it often and always said she didn't want to

be a

> burden on her children and wanted to be put in a home as soon as she

was

> ill. At the same time, she was very frightened. Still, we offered

to help

> as much as we could. Most of our help was rejected, often curtly,

and

> whenever we offered support or assistance, SIL told us in no

uncertain terms

> that she was coping fine, and didn't need us. It was plain, and has

become

> plainer, that this is far from the truth. Initially, we visited

every

> weekend or two, but over time our visits appeared to be unwelcome -

I have

> always been ignored by SIL to the extent that she won't even say

hello to me

> unless DH prompts her, and wouldn't dream of extending hospitality

even in

> the form of a cup of tea! The children are much fawned over,

however, but

> in an odd way (I can't define 'odd', here, but it makes me

uncomfortable).

> I had been in touch with the local Alzheimers Society, who had got

Social

> Services in touch with the family, which resulted in a psychiatric

nurse

> visiting, and MIL was given a home visit from a respite worker twice

a week,

> and taken to a day centre once a week, which meant that SIL got a

break 3

> days a week. DH had been in touch with MIL's GP and got regular

updates on

> her condition from him (neither SIL nor FIL have ever phoned us when

MIL's

> condition changes. Or for any other reason, for that matter. The

phone

> lines work strictly one way!) We had some time before invited SIL

to pick a

> day of the week and come over here on a regular basis, to get away

from her

> family and spend time with DD1 and the bump that was to be DS. She

came

> twice.

>

> When we'd been married about a year and a half, and Josh was about 6

months

> old - so maybe 3 years ago, DH got a letter out of the blue from

SIL, saying

> that I was a complete bitch; not good enough for him; patronising to

her;

> that I conspire to keep her away from the baby (DS) as much as

possible;

> that she's spent more time with her cousin's baby than her brother's

(her

> cousin lives two streets away, we live 2 hours away by car. Go

figure!);

> and on and on. He immediately went over to see her, and spent and

evening

> being bathed in vitriol about how he'd deserted her and he'd never

> understand what she was going through, and I was patronising

(because I'd

> been in touch with Alzheimers Soc., as it turned out), and she would

never

> have children and couldn't bear being deprived of his children, and

their

> family is cursed and nothing ever goes right and so on.

>

> So, after that, we resumed going over every other weekend - by this

time MIL

> barely knew me or the kids, but was always very pleased to see DH -

and DH

> went on his own every Wednesday night, to take SIL out and give her

a break.

>

> Then, the following xmas, our DD2 was born by c/s (3 Dec) so we

announced

> that we would be having xmas at home, and the ILs were all welcome

to come

> on xmas day, which they all did and even MIL seemed pleased to be

here,

> though she was usually very distressed away from home. By this time

she was

> multiply incontinent, unable to feed herself, not always able to

walk,

> recognising very few people and still living at home under SIL's

care.

> Social Services were pressing SIL to have her put in a home, and SIL

> refused - to the point where Social Services rang DH and said they

were

> concerned about SIL's refusal to let go of her mother, and could he

> intervene. He tried - unsuccessfully.

>

> Anyway, about a week after xmas we got another letter, saying she

was going

> to kill herself because nobody loved her and she felt terribly let

down by

> DH who hadn't been there for her and he was to consider her dead

from that

> day on. So, he rushed over again, and that seemed to resolve things

for a

> while.

>

> Then about a month later, we began to get phone calls at 2, 3 in the

> morning. If I answered the phone, she'd say " I don't want to talk

to you "

> and hang up. If he answered the phone, she'd be silent for up to

half an

> hour, and then begin screaming vitriol at him. If he hung up, we'd

start

> all over again. This went on for about 3 weeks - at a time when our

DD2 was

> also having problems and difficult to settle, so the net result was

very

> little sleep for us.

>

> Eventually, SIL was persuaded to put MIL into a home - by this time,

MIL had

> become rather violent and it was apparent even to SIL that she could

no

> longer cope alone. For a while, things seemed to improve - no

letters, no

> phone calls. We went over when we could and DH and SIL seemed to be

getting

> on reasonably OK. Then she discovered email

>

> So, to skip a few beats, in the last two weeks, she's emailed DH

twice (at

> work!): the first time when she knew I'd be away and he'd have no

one to

> talk to at home, either (one of her big things is that he can find

" comfort

> in the arms of your wife " while she has no comfort because he's

deserted

> her). In this one, she said that DH is a huge disappointment to

her; that

> he will never understand what she's been through looking after their

mother;

> that

> he's destroyed her faith in human nature and in the family; that all

she

> ever wanted was for him to love her and he's let her down badly;

that nobody

> loves her; that he was never there for her when she needed him; that

she

> lies awake at night crying because he doesn't love her; that he

spends more

> time with my family than with her (if this is true, it's marginal -

my

> family is geographically very scattered, and we see little of them,

though

> we do have lots of phone contact); and f*** him. Then, today, he

gets back

> into work after his holiday to find another one. This time, she

hates him

> with a passion; she wishes he'd died and not ; she never wants

to see

> him again; he's not even 10% of the person she thought he was; he's

no kind

> of son to his mother; and she obviously thought far more of him than

he ever

> thought of her. Oh, and she hopes he had a nice holiday.

>

> So, apart from get very cross that this woman is hurting my lovely,

gentle

> husband and doesn't seem to be about to stop, what can I do about

this? He

> thinks she's dreadfully depressed and needs help - which I think is

partly

> true: she obviously is dreadfully something but I think it's gone

beyond

> depression, almost - and how do we help her if she won't acknowledge

there's

> anything wrong? She says she's fine and coping well and the

problems are

> all his.

>

> Has anybody else been through anything like this?? What did you do??

Please

> give me some ideas, somebody! DH thinks he wants to go on ignoring

her, as

> he thinks going over to see her makes her think she's in control,

and he

> thinks he can cope, but I don't see how such poison can fail to have

an

> effect, do you?

>

> Anyway, this is too long - sorry!

>

> Vicki Portman

>

> http://www.plushpants.co.uk

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ruthie - I don't think you're off beam at all. I will suggest this

to DH but neither of them have great faith in the medical profession - not

surprising, I suppose, given that the docs have failed to cure first their

brother and then their mother (I'm not saying this is a reasonable opinion,

mind!) so I can almost anticipate his anticipation that she won't see one.

I know I shouldn't - and I won't - but I feel so hurt and protective for DH

and the DKs that I'm tempted to send FIL a copy of all the letters and ask

him to intervene. After all, it's about time he took some responsibility

for his family!

Vicki Portman

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

[Guest guest]

> Thanks, Ruthie - I don't think you're off beam at all. I will

suggest this

> to DH but neither of them have great faith in the medical profession

- not

> surprising, I suppose, given that the docs have failed to cure first

their

> brother and then their mother (I'm not saying this is a reasonable

opinion,

> mind!) so I can almost anticipate his anticipation that she won't

see one.

>

> I know I shouldn't - and I won't - but I feel so hurt and protective

for DH

> and the DKs that I'm tempted to send FIL a copy of all the letters

and ask

> him to intervene. After all, it's about time he took some

responsibility

> for his family!

>

> Vicki Portman

>

> http://www.plushpants.co.uk

I understand. But even if she won't see one (and I think it does

depend on how it's put, right now I am guessing that she feels

martyred by her caring role and feels that no one is validating how

hard she worked... so saying that there may be some kind of rest

therapy which will do wonders may help..) even if she doesn't agree

to see one..sometimes knowing that she may be mentally unwell rather

than being deliberately horrid would help you and your DH to cope. I

really don't think it should be anyone in your immediate family who

suggests seeing a doctor to her, she will take it personally. If

someone feel " put upon " by her family the last thing she want to hear

from that very same family is that she need to see a doctor. But

hearing it from someone neutral may make her seriously consider the

idea.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Oh Vicki

How I feel for you and your family, I have no practical advice to offer

but I agree with Ruthie that there appears to be something very wrong

with your SILs mental health. It's very difficult being on the receiving

end of someone's anger and bitterness -especially when you are well

aware that you have tried *very* hard over the years to offer all the

support and help you are capable of. I do hope you get something

resolved soon.

((((hugs)))))

Claire

Mum to 8, 6, Kate 3 and 1

[Guest guest]

Vicki, I'm so sorry - what a sad history. No, I don't have personal

experience of this kind of thing (thankfully), but I do agree with you.

That sort of poison, dripped slowly over a long period of time, is bound to

have an effect. I *do* think she is ill though. Trouble is, that you

cannot make her seek help unless she wants it. Is her GP the same as the

one for your MIL, so therefore the one that your DH has had contact with?

If so, can your DH speak to him/her? Even make an appointment to see that

GP if necessary? Although I still think the GP probably can't make SIL go

in for an appointment. I'm no expert but I imagine a lot of this still

stems from things in childhood and possibly/probably 's death, which

should have been dealt with/spoken about? I know everyone deals with things

differently, but he should have been " remembered " IYKWIM, although that is

not going to rectify anything now. It all sounds very deep seated, and from

what you say, seems to be getting worse. It's not going to go away by just

ignoring it, or by your DH going off to see her everytime she gets really

bad.

Oh dear, I'm rambling now. I hope someone can come up with a sensible idea

that would help all of you - you, DH and her - because you can't carry on

like this.

Thinking of you and very pleased you had a good time away on holiday.

Hannah

xx

-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Portman

Sent: 03 September 2001 14:52

Has anybody else been through anything like this?? What did you do??

Please

give me some ideas, somebody! DH thinks he wants to go on ignoring her,

as

he thinks going over to see her makes her think she's in control, and he

thinks he can cope, but I don't see how such poison can fail to have an

effect, do you?

Anyway, this is too long - sorry!

Vicki Portman

[Guest guest]

Vicki,

Much like the others there does seem to me to be a deep mental problem here.

Could it be early onset of Alzheimers + unresolved grief and a " strange "

belief/attachment to your DH? She appears to have some very odd expectations of

her brother.

Sorry I don't have any suggestions as to how anyone 'helps' your sil, my only

dealings have been with people when they are so far down that even they have

recognized that their behavior is bizarre.

Caroline

Jersey

> Has anybody else been through anything like this?? What did you do?? Please

> give me some ideas, somebody! DH thinks he wants to go on ignoring her, as

> he thinks going over to see her makes her think she's in control, and he

> thinks he can cope, but I don't see how such poison can fail to have an

> effect, do you?

>

> Anyway, this is too long - sorry!

>

> Vicki Portman

Germain

Jersey

British Channel Islands

[Guest guest]

> What does your FIL think about her behaviour?

Jo - I was going to say the same thing . The FIL is her next of kin

and therefore needs to be doing the enquiries/permission giving

if the the Mental Health people need to get involved - he would be

responsible for signing her over to them if she refuses to

co-operate (sounds a bit harsh - hopefully you will KWIM)

My best friend has been through an identical situation with her sil

(so similar it's frightening) and she turned out to have Manic

Depression.

Really hope something gets resolved soon.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

This sounds completely dreadful - I have a sense of de je vu though,

when I was ill with post-natal elation/depression I had a bout of

blaming everyone else and being totally irrational. My Dr referred

me to a Psychologist who was very calm and listened and although he

understood all that I was saying and didn't 'blame' me for thinking

it he was able to persuade me that I needed help. He was (and still

is) incredibly helpful and so gentle too, I don't think I would have

come through it if it wasn't for him. Ask your Dr to help, and he

can talk to her Dr too (I think). Show him the letter you posted

here. Try to keep calm, she sounds extremely ill and your DH will

need you to support him as you are already doing by the sounds of

things. Don't be hurt (if you can help it), it sounds to me as if

you are coping magnificently with a difficult situation - but you do

need professional help for her IMO.

Good luck.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> My best friend has been through an identical situation with her sil

> (so similar it's frightening) and she turned out to have Manic

> Depression.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what I was thinking - my aunt has

manic depressive problems and it's the same story again. Difficult

childhood (but then all 9 of them did) followed by nursing mother

through illness, although not as single-handedly as she'd like

everyone to think. It all happened a long time ago now though, so I'm

not sure how the family handled it. I know she has been in and out of

institutes for donkey's years and although now mostly out is

distinctly strange and none of the family has much to do with her

apart from her sons (they were/are exempt from the vitriol because

they're her golden boys). My uncle divorced her some years back. It's

too late to phone now, but I'll call my mum tomorrow and ask if she

knows/remembers how it was handled.

Kerry

[Guest guest]

Vicki,

I’m so sorry It sounds like a dreadful situation for

everyone and your SIL sounds very disturbed. Even if you

can’t get her some help (or *especially* if you can’t!) you

might get DH and even you into some help where you can talk

about the situation and figure out what to do with the help

of a neutral third party. Even if your DH seems to be

taking it placidly, he probably still has plenty of

‘issues’ with his family buzzing around inside him, and his

sister sounds like a hornets nest unto herself.

Phyllis

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Oh Vicky - what a tragic story. Thank you for sharing - I hoped it

helped you to write it down.

I can't begin to imagine what a dreadful time you are all having. I

do hope it improves for you all.

((hugs)) to you and your DH

Todman

Treasurer, Stansted Branch (R5)

Mum to , 3½

> Well, we're back from our holiday (had a lovely, lovely time): and

here's a

> howdy do! Since we're on the subject of difficult in-laws, we're

having a

> complete nightmare with my sister in law. What on *earth* do we do

about

> this?? Please bear in mind that I'm going to try to be objective in

all

> this, and I do acknowledge that she's a deeply unhappy woman.

However, she

> is now sorely testing my patience and temper and the limits of my

tact (not

> great at the best of times!)