ACE HC balancing chelation and adrenals Re: Jackie's experience with HC taper

[Guest guest]

>

> It's not been long but I seem to be responding pretty well to the 5mg

> Cortef and 50mg ACE in the morning (and then dosing every three hours)

It's not clear to me what this means. Do you take 5 mg Cortef plus 50

mg ACE every 3 h for a total of 4 doses?

> but between 1PM and, say, 5PM, I'm a complete disaster regardless of

> these helpers. I get that exhausted broken glass feeling inside that

> is way beyond sleep.

>

> On my worst days, before chelation, although had CFS, I wasn't this

> bad and so I'm thinking that it's the metal coming out that's hurting

> me. I'm trying to find the balance between chelating metals and not

> burning out my adrenals so bad. Andy's supplement ideas are helping

> although I still can't figure out if suphur is hurting me.

>I drink

> these fabulous homemade bone broths throughout the day that are

> loaded with onions and other sulphurous things and it's hard to think

> that those and all the green vegs I eat are hurting me now but maybe

> so.

>

The bone broths are excellent for you. It is possible to make them

without any sulfurous things, and perhaps that is one thing that you

need to try to do. Try cutting out all of the foods on the high

sulfur food list (see the files section) and see if that helps.

> I respond well to the epsom salt baths so I know my body wants

> sulfate.

>

And magnesium.

> I also learned I definitely have a parasite/bacteria issue

> (miraculously showed up on the Metamatrix 2105 Microbial Ecology

> Profile (which is a great test IMO) and so plan to use Xifaxan for 3

> days and then, for another 3 days an herbal antiparasite tincture

> that he's fond of. I figure I'll stop chelating during that time.

>

Yes, and rest for a while after, take lots of probiotics and other

supplements to build yourself back up before starting to chelate again.

I'm not familiar with the parasite treatment, so am not commenting on

that particular treatment, only assuming that it will be hard on your

body and your own normal flora.

> I was so excited to add in the ALA but have decided to back it off --

> from 6mg to 3mg. If that doesn't work then go back to DMSA only or

> try the DMPS I have..

>

Why not just rest from chelation for a bit until your body isn't so

stressed.

> > ----------No. I did the taper and then have been on a

> > maintenance dose of HC ever since, 20mg/day, with stress-dosing

> > here and there. also had me on another adrenal product, but

> > I have switched to straight ACE which is much cheaper, and I'm

> > taking a higher dose now, which seems to help me keep my HC dose

> > down. --------Jackie

>

> Exactly how much ACE are you taking each day, Jackie? I know Andy's

> talked about it but as long as we're here? thanks.

>

Here's one post where Andy gives a dose for Thorne brand ACE:

http://onibasu.com/archives/fdc/5263.html

There are others to be found if you use onibasu.com and search

archives using the keywords andrewhallcutler and adrenal cortex or

whatever else you like.

J

> BTW after years of not being able to even THINK about taking DHEA I'm

> doing fine on 10mg timed-release in the morning so that's good.. I

> also added in TMG as per the list's suggestion. For methylation.

> Thanks. You'll make a chemist of me yet :-)

>

> ~robin

>

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation robin wrote:

> So my adrenals had taken some huge hits prior to going to see her

> and weren't responding to Isocort anymore, so I believe she felt I

> needed some serious adrenal help.------------Jackie

It's not been long but I seem to be responding pretty well to the 5mg

Cortef and 50mg ACE in the morning (and then dosing every three hours)

but between 1PM and, say, 5PM, I'm a complete disaster regardless of

these helpers. I get that exhausted broken glass feeling inside that

is way beyond sleep.

-------As asked, I'm not clear on how much in total you are taking each

day. Are you dosing Cortef and ACE every 3 hours, how many times?

I can still crash in the afternoon, even with all I do. But I seem to always

have some stressors that bring me back down and make things worse again. This

just may be your body telling you it needs rest. I think it's a protection

mechanism. Adrenal support helps, but you still need rest.--------Jackie

On my worst days, before chelation, although had CFS, I wasn't this

bad and so I'm thinking that it's the metal coming out that's hurting

me. I'm trying to find the balance between chelating metals and not

burning out my adrenals so bad.

----------Chelation is stress and is hard on your adrenals, but you must

remember Robin, that you have had alot of others stressors also, and it is all

cumulative.

The process of amalgam removal is stress, your long trip caring for your

parents---huge stress, especially right after amalgam removal, you moved

recently, and then all your legal and renting problems----more stress, and I

believe you were recently sick with a virus---more stress, and chelation on top

of all of that. That's alot of stress on your adrenals, whether you realize it

or not. It's not just the chelation.

And, how many months post amalgam removal are you? I think you're entering

the hump, possibly, if I remember right. So it is normal for you to feel worse

during this time, even if you are chelating.

So, lots of factors involved, and I think you just need to be kind to yourself

and don't push it. If your body wants to rest, then rest. (And I know this

isn't always possible, but do it as often as you can.)---------Jackie

Andy's supplement ideas are helping

although I still can't figure out if suphur is hurting me. I drink

these fabulous homemade bone broths throughout the day that are

loaded with onions and other sulphurous things and it's hard to think

that those and all the green vegs I eat are hurting me now but maybe

so.

--------It might be sulfur foods, or maybe just burnt out adrenals. As

said, you would have to exclude sulfur foods for a number of days, to see if

this helps.--------Jackie

I respond well to the epsom salt baths so I know my body wants

sulfate.

---------And/or magnesium, as said. But remember, you can be low

sulfate, and still have a problem with sulfur foods, because that has to do with

plasma cysteine levels, not sulfate levels.---------Jackie

I also learned I definitely have a parasite/bacteria issue

(miraculously showed up on the Metamatrix 2105 Microbial Ecology

Profile (which is a great test IMO) and so plan to use Xifaxan for 3

days and then, for another 3 days an herbal antiparasite tincture

that he's fond of. I figure I'll stop chelating during that time.

--------Yes, good plan to take a break from chelation. Hard to know what's

doing what when you do too many things at once, and it is all stress on the body

and adrenals, so don't overload yourself.---------Jackie

I was so excited to add in the ALA but have decided to back it off --

from 6mg to 3mg. If that doesn't work then go back to DMSA only or

try the DMPS I have..

----------Yes, it sounded like you had maybe too many symptoms with 6mg, so

good plan to back down to 3mg, or even wait awhile.---------Jackie

> ----------No. I did the taper and then have been on a

> maintenance dose of HC ever since, 20mg/day, with stress-dosing

> here and there. also had me on another adrenal product, but

> I have switched to straight ACE which is much cheaper, and I'm

> taking a higher dose now, which seems to help me keep my HC dose

> down. --------Jackie

-----------And just an added note, that I felt better after the taper, but

shortly after that, the stress level picked up again in my life, and I have had

some major stress again since the taper, so my adrenals are worn down again. So

I still need some major adrenal support, because life just doesn't let up for

me! So it would have been interesting to see how my adrenals would have done if

there would have been less stress in my life after the taper.---------Jackie

Exactly how much ACE are you taking each day, Jackie? I know Andy's

talked about it but as long as we're here? thanks.

----------A number of months ago, I started experimenting with raising my

dosage, and taking a dose in the morning and around noonish, and sometimes in

the afternoon also. I got as high as 900-1000mg total a day. It seems I could

tolerate this for a couple of days, and then it would feel like too much, and I

would have to back off.

So, currently, I have settled on taking 250mg in the am and at noon, so a

total of 500mg/day. I occassionally take another 250mg in the afternoon when

I'm really dragging, but I can't say that it has cured that either. So I should

probably play with my dosages again.

After my surgery in December, life was pretty quite for awhile, and I took a

break from chelation, it seemed the ACE and HC were helping alot. Then I

started chelating again in March and had alot of stress in early April,

emotional and physical, and this has knocked my adrenals back again. So I just

want to point out how fragile your adrenals can be, and just because you start

to feel better, doesn't mean that they are *all better* and healthy and strong.

It didn't take a whole lot to knock mine back down again.---------Jackie

BTW after years of not being able to even THINK about taking DHEA I'm

doing fine on 10mg timed-release in the morning so that's good..

----------- started me out on 25mg in the morning, and then after

retesting last fall, we increased it to 50mg total, 25 am and 25 at noon. Also,

25mg of pregnenolone am and noon.----------Jackie

I

also added in TMG as per the list's suggestion. For methylation.

Thanks. You'll make a chemist of me yet :-)

~robin