Re: Urine Test Results after challenge test..

[Guest guest]

After I recieve that

> back, I will start DMSA. He is alittle worried that I may be really

> sensitive to it though. Any thoughts.

He gave you 500 mg over 7 h. Starting off on Andy's protocol we

recommend trying 12.5 mg per dose (or less), so that would be about 25

mg in a similar time period. That is 500/25 = 20x.

Imagine the difference between taking 2 tylenol every 4 h for chronic

pain and 20 x as much, which would be 40 tylenol every 4 h.

Doctors in general don't understand proper chelation and end up giving

people way too much chelator at once.

The challenge results are not all that helpful. An essential elements

hair test would be more helpful. We can tell that you have some

toxicity judging by your reaction.

J

>

> Hi all. I did a DMSA urine challenge test(500 mg over 7 hrs) and I

> received the results today. I did the test through Genova

> Diagnostics. I know urine challenge tests are not recommended but I

> needed the doctor for labs.

> The test came back as follows:

>

> Mercury- no DL

> Lead 2.3 ref 1.4

> Cesium 12.1 ref 12.1

> Gadolinium 2.2 ref .019 Had an MRI with contrast a month ago(should

> this still be showing up?)

>

> Rubidium 3.361 ref 2.263

> Thallium .385 ref .298

>

>

> All amalgams removed. Tingling and numbness started in my head and

> face when I first had amalgams removed last fall. After challenge

> two days later tingling on left arm and left leg from knee to foot.

> I think I redistributed the mercury to cause the tingling in my arm

> and foot. I have been to a neurologist - tried to explain about

> mercury(clueless). My current dr agrees to not give me anymore

> challenges that I am very sensitive and will help with labs and

> treatment. I know I should have listened to the group but ... I

> didn't. He is not totally positve I have mecury issues but suguested

> I see another neurologist to do a nerve connection study. He had me

> do a RBC test before I left his office today. After I recieve that

> back, I will start DMSA. He is alittle worried that I may be really

> sensitive to it though. Any thoughts. I don't think it is

> concidental that I had tingling and numbness two days after I did the

> challenge. I am trying to have an open mind( at least for my husband

> in case it is not mercury but some other issue) Thanks for all your

> help. Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all. I did a DMSA urine challenge test(500 mg over 7 hrs) and I

> received the results today. I did the test through Genova

> Diagnostics. I know urine challenge tests are not recommended but

I

> needed the doctor for labs.

> The test came back as follows:

TK--- challenge tests are not informative and can be very dangerous

causing more damage and side effects sometimes severe and permanent.

>

> Mercury- no DL

> Lead 2.3 ref 1.4

> Cesium 12.1 ref 12.1

> Gadolinium 2.2 ref .019 Had an MRI with contrast a month ago

(should

> this still be showing up?)

>

> Rubidium 3.361 ref 2.263

> Thallium .385 ref .298

TK--- we do not use challenge tests for diagnosis - please do

youreself a big favor and do a DDI Hair Elements Analysis which we

can then help you with. Links section

>

>

> All amalgams removed. Tingling and numbness started in my head and

> face when I first had amalgams removed last fall.

After challenge

> two days later tingling on left arm and left leg from knee to

foot.

> I think I redistributed the mercury to cause the tingling in my arm

> and foot.

TK--- correct - which is one of the reasons we do not use them.

My current dr agrees to not give me anymore

> challenges that I am very sensitive and will help with labs and

> treatment. I know I should have listened to the group but ... I

> didn't.

He is not totally positve I have mecury issues

TK--- most people aren't unless it is obvious

but suguested

> I see another neurologist to do a nerve connection study. He had

me

> do a RBC test before I left his office today. After I recieve that

> back, I will start DMSA. He is alittle worried that I may be

really

> sensitive to it though. Any thoughts.

TK--- the only way to know is to try it - start with small dosages

using the protocol correctly as suggested, 12.5mg or less.

I don't think it is

> concidental that I had tingling and numbness two days after I did

the

> challenge.

TK--- it isn't - you redistributed Hg

I am trying to have an open mind( at least for my husband

> in case it is not mercury but some other issue)

TK--- which it can be - you need to do the correct testing to find

out.

Thanks for all your

> help. Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

I did a hair test prior and I did not meet the counting rules but had

deranged minerals. The feeling in my arm has went away hopefully the

same will happen with my left leg. I am going to start with 12.5mg

of DMSA in a few weeks as soon as I get my RBC test back. Do you

think I should go ahead and take the supplements now? I am chelating

my 6 year old daughter on Andy's protocol with the help a dr out of

state. She tested high aluminum and mercury. Thanks again for your

help. Sheila

> >

> > Hi all. I did a DMSA urine challenge test(500 mg over 7 hrs) and

I

> > received the results today. I did the test through Genova

> > Diagnostics. I know urine challenge tests are not recommended

but

> I

> > needed the doctor for labs.

> > The test came back as follows:

>

>

> TK--- challenge tests are not informative and can be very dangerous

> causing more damage and side effects sometimes severe and

permanent.

>

>

>

> >

> > <snip>

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " thedyes " threebabygirs@... thedyes

Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:45 pm (PDT)

>Hi all. I did a DMSA urine challenge test(500 mg over 7 hrs) and I

received the results today. I did the test through Genova

Diagnostics. I know urine challenge tests are not recommended

They are dangerous.

Luckily, it seems you got away with it, but I wouldn't suggest rolling the dice

again.

>but I needed the doctor for labs.

?? I'm not clear what you mean here - do you need the labs for some reason?

Why? You do know that the results tell you basically nothing, right?

>The test came back as follows:

>Mercury- no DL

Means nothing. There are people with even recent poisoning who have nothing in

their urine even on challenge.

>Lead 2.3 ref 1.4

May mean something, I don't know. I haven't looked into challenge tests for

lead.

>Cesium 12.1 ref 12.1

>Gadolinium 2.2 ref .019 Had an MRI with contrast a month ago(should

this still be showing up?)

Probably. I don't know.

>Rubidium 3.361 ref 2.263

>Thallium .385 ref .298

>All amalgams removed. Tingling and numbness started in my head and

face when I first had amalgams removed last fall. After challenge

two days later tingling on left arm and left leg from knee to foot. I think I

redistributed the mercury to cause the tingling in my arm

and foot.

So maybe you didn't quite get away with it. Does this mean you have done more

than one challenge test?

> I have been to a neurologist - tried to explain about mercury(clueless). My

current dr agrees to not give me anymore challenges

No, it is you who has to take control. Don't be begging him/her - _tell_ him.

" I will not allow you to put any sulfur into my veins and I will not take any

chelators on anything but a physiologically appropriate dosing protocol. "

Practice it in front of a mirror, if you need to, but don't give in to the

intimidation that comes from their training and/or degrees.

>that I am very sensitive and will help with labs and treatment.

You are not " very sensitive " . It has happened to many of us, it could have

happened to any of us, and he is wrong to have done it. Calling you " very

sensitive " is his way of saving face. You need to get this clear - he is doing

things that are _dangerous to your health_. Don't let him do it any more.

>I know I should have listened to the group but ... I didn't.

Why not, what kind of power does this doctor have over you?

>He is not totally positve I have mecury

It is not him who needs to be convinced. It is you - and once you are, you can

detox on your own; you have absolutely no need for him.

>issues but suguested I see another neurologist to do a nerve connection study.

Which will also tell you absolutely nothing, but it will enrich him and his

buddies.

>He had me do a RBC test before I left his office today.

This will also tell you nothing. These guys make their money from testing,

don't waste your time here.

>After I recieve that back, I will start DMSA.

You don't need it. If you have no more exposures (if you are _certain_ you

have no amalgams), you can start using it today. I would suggest getting your

supplement regimen in place (below), you might also want to do an elimination

diet and a sulfur exclusion diet, and a hair test will be useful (below) but

other than that, you can just go ahead. Make sure you understand what the

right protocol is - start at 1/8 mg per lb bodyweight, every 4 hours. You can

get 25mg DMSA from VRP, and you can divide doses by mixing with an acidic juice

(orange will do - make sure to mix well and don't keep for more than 12 hours).

Do a couple of rounds (5 or 6) and then see if the chelator has any effects.

If so, then you have mercury to deal with. If not, then you don't. This is

the right way to diagnose - symptoms in reaction to chelators ==> you are

moving metals.

If you want you can also do a hair test from Doctors' Data. They are available

directly from DirectLabs.Com. You want the " Hair elements " test, _not_ the

" Toxic Hair Elements " test. Call them, mention the autism-mercury list, and

you will get a discount. That test can give you some idea on the lead issue,

and it can give you some idea on other things that can help while you are

chelating - if the conclusion after the trial of chelation or after the hair

test is that this is what you need to do.

>He is a little worried that I may be really sensitive to it though. Any

thoughts.

You are looking to him for a solution, Sheila.

He is worried because he has some sense that he has no idea what to do.

Calling a patient " sensitive " is what they do when they want to say that you

are some kind of exceptional case. You are not, your reactions are quite

typical.

>I don't think it is concidental that I had tingling and numbness two days

after I did the challenge.

That sounds like you are thinking clearly.

>I am trying to have an open mind ( at least for my husband in case it is not

mercury but some other issue)

Don't confuse having an open mind from not following what is sensible to you.

>Thanks for all your help.

Ask any questions you need to. The basic thing you need to know is that when

it comes to using chelators, the advice you will get here is the most

conservative and lowest dose, protocol there is. So if you are going to use

them, and it seems you have already made this decision, then this is the place

to be to learn what needs to be done to use them safely.

>Sheila

Here is the supplements that you should have in place:

B50 or B100 once or twice /d

Buffered C, 4g/d

Mg, 100mg 4x/d and increase to 200 in a few weeks

Mg Supps is done by taking 100-200mg (adult) with each meal and possibly at

bedtime. The amount used is adjusted to the max level that is not laxative.

Ca should also be givven so the ratio of Ca to Mg intake from all sources

(food & pills) is somewhere between 1:2 and 2:1.

Vit E, 400-1000IU/d

CoQ10, 75-200mg/d

Zinc, 20mg + 1mg/lb

Flax Oil, 10+g/d (1-2 tbsp)

Borage oil, 1+g/d (1-2 tsp)

Milk thistle, 1-2 cap/meal

Folic acid, 400-800mcg/d

Make sure any selenium is in some form like selenomethionine or selenium yeast.

AIp. 162: 50-300mcg a day total.

Try Lecithin, Choline & B12 to see how you respond.

[Guest guest]

Sheila - meeting counting rules and deranged minerals are the same ...

What do you expect the RBC test to tell you?

I would suggest getting started on supplements as soon as you can. Also

dietary interventions like the " sulfur exclusion diet " (search on onibasu.com)

and the elimination diet to look for food reactions.

Why don't you post the hair tests here? We can give some feed-back:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

There is a lot more in the hair test than just disordered minerals.

Dave.

-------

Posted by: " thedyes " threebabygirs@... thedyes

Fri Jun 6, 2008 4:22 pm (PDT)

I did a hair test prior and I did not meet the counting rules but had

deranged minerals. The feeling in my arm has went away hopefully the

same will happen with my left leg. I am going to start with 12.5mg

of DMSA in a few weeks as soon as I get my RBC test back. Do you

think I should go ahead and take the supplements now? I am chelating

my 6 year old daughter on Andy's protocol with the help a dr out of

state. She tested high aluminum and mercury. Thanks again for your

help. Sheila