Re: Collagen/Joint problems.

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " seashell_555 " seashell_555@... seashell_555

Tue Jul 1, 2008 5:26 pm (PDT)

>>Ya, actually. It's not like I know a lot about this, but I know

that sulfate is used by the body to make collagen. There can be one of two

problems here. You could be low sulfate, in which case taking sulfate (epsom

salts) and taking epsom salt baths could help give you the sulfate you need to

make the collagen. The other possible problem is that you have enough sulfate,

but the biochemical step in processing the sulfate is blocked. In that

case, Andy suggests making bone broths and using that as the source of stufyou

need for the collagen.

-----------------------

>This has been a huge problem of mine for years and it has gotten

worse. A couple of years ago I had dmps injections -- I know BAD! --

and I felt alot better intially. My joints especially seemed to

connect better and my thinking was clearer. But it only lasted for

about an hour. Anyway, the doctor said " well maybe you just needed

the sulfur/sulfite ...I can't remember which it was.

It sounds like he was treating you randomly, without a clear idea of what needs

to be done.

_You_ should be clear that sulfur is different from sulf_a_te and that both of

those are different from chelation.

>I'm thinking I have a problem with sulfur(can't tolerate msm,alot

of ala, etc)

That's a reasonably good conclusion. You might want to try a " sulfur exclusion

diet " , but it's likely that you are right. So, are you on a low sulfur diet?

>but all my reading says that sulfur is needed for

joints/tendons/collagen all of which is a huge problem for me.

Sulfur is needed for all functions of the body. The point is that some of us

have kidneys that retain it (so the small amounts you would get in a sulfur

exclusion diet would be sufficient) and some have kidneys that dump it (in

which case you would need to consume high sulfur foods and maybe even

supplement).

As for collagen, what I know is that it is produced from _sulfate_. So, my

suggestion was that either (1) you do not have enough sulfuate or (2) you are

not using the sulfate you have. In the case of (1) you can take or bathe in

sulfate. In either case (1) or (2) you can consume bone broths.

>So is my body just not distributing it to where it needs to go?

>Also, since sulfur is essential for health, won't eliminating it be

unhealthy? This is so confusing - also, what is sulfite and if I'm

low can I safely supplement it?

Clear now?

>Thanks...

>Val

Dave.

[Guest guest]

In addition to Dave's insight (which I value), I would like to share

that collagen synthesis is dependant on many factors (not just sulfur

status). Some other agents (all that can be supplemented) which

promote collagen production include silica (I like liquid Biosil),

vit.C, amino acids (the most important one's to supplement with are

proline, lysine, and, somewhat less so, glycine - or you can take

hydrolyzed collagen protein e.g. Knox unflavored gelatin), and

proanthocyanidins (good sources include hawthorn berry extract, grape

seed extract, and pine bark extract).

Also, if you experience no side effects from betaine HCL

supplementation (taken mid-way through, especially, protein

containing meals, it would be wise to do so - you want to assess how

many capsules (which are preferable to tablets here) you can use

without producing a mild warm or burning sensation in your stomach.

The list of problems that can occur from hypochlorhydria (stomach

acid deficiency) is long, and results, largely, from nutrient

malabsorption...rendering supplementation and a good diet largely

innefective. It's amazing how many people have reversed various

health problems with HCL supplementation.

>

> Posted by: " seashell_555 " seashell_555@... seashell_555

> Tue Jul 1, 2008 5:26 pm (PDT)

>

> >>Ya, actually. It's not like I know a lot about this, but I know

> that sulfate is used by the body to make collagen. There can be one

of two

> problems here. You could be low sulfate, in which case taking

sulfate (epsom

> salts) and taking epsom salt baths could help give you the sulfate

you need to

> make the collagen. The other possible problem is that you have

enough sulfate,

> but the biochemical step in processing the sulfate is blocked. In

that

> case, Andy suggests making bone broths and using that as the source

of stufyou

> need for the collagen.

>

> -----------------------

>

> >This has been a huge problem of mine for years and it has gotten

> worse. A couple of years ago I had dmps injections -- I know BAD! --

> and I felt alot better intially. My joints especially seemed to

> connect better and my thinking was clearer. But it only lasted for

> about an hour. Anyway, the doctor said " well maybe you just needed

> the sulfur/sulfite ...I can't remember which it was.

>

> It sounds like he was treating you randomly, without a clear idea

of what needs

> to be done.

>

> _You_ should be clear that sulfur is different from sulf_a_te and

that both of

> those are different from chelation.

>

> >I'm thinking I have a problem with sulfur(can't tolerate msm,alot

> of ala, etc)

>

> That's a reasonably good conclusion. You might want to try

a " sulfur exclusion

> diet " , but it's likely that you are right. So, are you on a low

sulfur diet?

>

> >but all my reading says that sulfur is needed for

> joints/tendons/collagen all of which is a huge problem for me.

>

> Sulfur is needed for all functions of the body. The point is that

some of us

> have kidneys that retain it (so the small amounts you would get in

a sulfur

> exclusion diet would be sufficient) and some have kidneys that dump

it (in

> which case you would need to consume high sulfur foods and maybe

even supplement).

>

> As for collagen, what I know is that it is produced from

_sulfate_. So, my

> suggestion was that either (1) you do not have enough sulfuate or

(2) you are

> not using the sulfate you have. In the case of (1) you can take or

bathe in

> sulfate. In either case (1) or (2) you can consume bone broths.

>

> >So is my body just not distributing it to where it needs to go?

>

> >Also, since sulfur is essential for health, won't eliminating it

be

> unhealthy? This is so confusing - also, what is sulfite and if I'm

> low can I safely supplement it?

>

> Clear now?

>

> >Thanks...

> >Val

>

> Dave.

>