Re: Abdominal pain

[Guest guest]

>

> I am wondering if anyone else seems to have almost constant vague

abdominal pain like I do.

Actually, no I haven't really had pain problems, but I've had

other GI symptoms.

> It never goes away, just sometimes diminishes a bit. It feels as if

my intestines are constantly clenched tightly like a fist.

Since you say " intestines " , I am guessing this pain is in the lower

abdomen? Any other symptoms - constipation, diarrhea, bloating,

gas, nausea, anything else?

> I had thought that maybe the mercury is causing either the nerves or

the muscles themselves to cramp constantly, similar to the way my jaw

constantly clenches, whether I am awake or asleep.

If it is a muscular issue, taking enough magnesium should help to

relax the muscles. (Magnesium will cause loose stools if you take

too much - your tolerance may increase over time, so start slowly

with small doses 3-4 times per day and increase gradually.)

GABA can also be relaxing.

> I did some research and mercury does seem to have this effect on

muscle tissue but I can't say for sure that's why my gut is sore. It

got temporarly better while taking Flagyl so I am not sure what is

Flagyl is both antibacterial and antiprotozoal. Since it helped,

it certainly suggests you have a problem with one of those pathogens.

Did your symptoms stay improved for awhile after you stopped the

Flagyl, or did they come back right away?

1) what are you doing for GI support - how much probiotics? what

type of diet? enzymes? hcl? any anti-pathogen agents, natural or Rx?

anything else for your gut?

2) have you ever had a stool analysis to check for pathogens? if

you can't solve this fairly easily and quickly with more/different

probiotics, change in diet (see the diet file), and/or GSE or some

other natural agent (to where your gut feels and functions normally),

then I would encourage you to get one. The comprehensive stool

analyses available from several labs (DDI, Metametrix, Genova) are

good baseline testing and could identify other problems in addition

to pathogens.

> going on there, as that would indicate a bacterial infection.

Anyone get this symptom?

My problems have always been more in the nature of nausea,

constipation, bloating. I certainly sympathize with vague but

intrusive GI symptoms.

My understanding is that SCD is a good diet for people prone

to bacterial problems. If you have a bacterial problem and it is

not real bad, a trial of that diet might be pretty informative.

--

p.s. I couldn't find your hair test, but Dave's interpretation

says you have an all low test - Andy has said this type of test

suggests a need for more stomach acid and other support for

digestion/absorption (eg digestive enzymes). I had an all low

test and it improved dramatically after I added hcl (enzymes

helped with symptoms, but didn't improve the hair test).

Also noticed your posts about joint problems. If you are low

sulfate, this can contribute to joint problems and (I think)

gut problems too. Probably wouldn't directly help with a pathogen

problem, but would support any needed healing after correcting the

pathogen problem.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: Abdominal pain

--->

>

> >

> > I am wondering if anyone else seems to have almost constant vague

> abdominal pain like I do.

>

>

It has always seemed like a pathogen to me, especially considering

the Flagyl works so quickly, but no test has ever picked up any

pathogen so my doctor thinks its IBS which doesn't make sense to me

since Flagyl shouldn't improve IBS. I had thought that maybe the

pathogen wasn't in my gut per se, but in my liver and affecting my

gut indirectly like a chinese liver fluke but I don't know how you

would test for that.

KAI: ---, the Flagyl is most probably killing the Salmonellas, Shigella,

E-Coli, etc

and as Dr says, self-reinfection is SO easy. Have a look at this and see

if you resonate with it.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/drclarknetwork/low_back_pain.html

The small intestine leads into the colon at your lower abdomen on the right

side. At the junction is the ileocaecal valve that prevents backwash, and the

appendix. The ascending colon goes up your right side then becomes the

transverse colon that crosses your abdomen at the belly button level. The colon

descends on your left side, leading into the sigmoid.

Fig. 19 Colon.

E. coli and Salmonella and Shigella are " enteric " (they live in your

bowel) bacteria that can give you severe abdominal distress and pain. In fact,

you can become a chronic sufferer. They can live on hands and under your

fingernails, so reinfection from yourself is the most important source. Never,

never touch your fingers to your lips. Most importantly, don't try to stop your

frequent bowel movements. They will stop on a dime when your parasites and

bacteria are dead and gone.

Other sources of E. coli are personal water bottles, other people's

hands, hands that have changed baby diapers or cleaned bathrooms.

Hands do everything. To eliminate their threat of reinfection, cut out the

section on hands (page 203) and paste it on your refrigerator.

Is mercury illness and parasites related at all?

Dr certainly believes there is an interdependant relationship between

certain bacteria and certain metals.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/drclarknetwork/metals.html

Our intestines are always full of bacteria, dead and alive, good and bad,

feeding on the leftovers of our digestion. As they die, nickel is left behind,

to be picked up by their successors. Gold, in the case of Salmonellas, is

recycled the same way. Competitors can snatch away metals left by others. Prions

and the HIV virus snatch their daily requirement of gold away from Salmonella

this way.

So just by the very act of harboring other creatures in us, we become a

repository of all their natural metals. The harm that is done by nickel alone,

besides inviting infection, is major. It consumes our iridium and it turns us

southerly! Iridium levels fall very low wherever nickel deposits are seen. A

tumor, due to its stockpile of nickel, cannot salvage its iron deposits and make

it usable again. There is an iridium shortage. Yet, the iron ferrite, Fe203,

deposits must be cleared away somehow to get the tumor zone back to a northerly

polarization.

Many thanks,

[Guest guest]

A couple of things to rule out would be appendicitis and Crone's disease.

Flagyl kills almost everything (bacterial) so it is important to take

probiotics and supplements to build up your own normal flora after a

course of it (not related to the pain, but you wouldn't want some

aggressive invader to come along and take over).

J

>

> I am wondering if anyone else seems to have almost constant vague

abdominal pain like I do. It never goes away, just sometimes

diminishes a bit. It feels as if my intestines are constantly

clenched tightly like a fist. I had thought that maybe the mercury is

causing either the nerves or the muscles themselves to cramp

constantly, similar to the way my jaw constantly clenches, whether I

am awake or asleep. I did some research and mercury does seem to have

this effect on muscle tissue but I can't say for sure that's why my

gut is sore. It got temporarly better while taking Flagyl so I am not

sure what is going on there, as that would indicate a bacterial

infection. Anyone get this symptom?

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I am wondering if anyone else seems to have almost constant vague

> abdominal pain like I do. It never goes away, just sometimes

> diminishes a bit. It feels as if my intestines are constantly

> clenched tightly like a fist. I had thought that maybe the mercury is

> causing either the nerves or the muscles themselves to cramp

> constantly, similar to the way my jaw constantly clenches, whether I

> am awake or asleep. I did some research and mercury does seem to have

> this effect on muscle tissue but I can't say for sure that's why my

> gut is sore. It got temporarly better while taking Flagyl so I am not

> sure what is going on there, as that would indicate a bacterial

> infection. Anyone get this symptom?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Lower abdomen mostly but it can be stomach or liver area and large

> bowel as well. Its a vague pain so its a little hard to locate. I

> have all the typical IBS symptoms, as you mentioned above. My

> digestion seems to slow down as well, and then things will go back to

> normal for a month or so after a week of Flagyl, and it is quite

> amazing how quickly things go back to normal after taking the Flagyl,

> literally within hours.

I still think if Flagyl helps, a pathogen seems likely. If there

is a bile flow problem as Nanciwell suggested, it could be because

the pathogen is somehow blocking bile flow. Yeast and parasites can

apparently get into the liver and cause trouble. If Flagyl directly

improves bile flow, I expect other people who have used it would

report this and it would be a known effect of the drug (maybe it

is, I don't know).

Other antibiotics haven't had any effect at

> all, but the Flagyl seems to always work. Curiously, 24 hours after

> taking Flagyl, I get this horrendous borborygmus for an hour or so,

> really loud and lots of movement. After that, things seem to go back

> to normal. Its so bizarre. O & P tests have all come back normal even

> doing three tests on different days. I am curious about doing the

> tests you mention. Are they more accurate than the typical O & P test?

They are probably reasonably accurate for pathogens in your colon,

but not the small intestine, or stomach, or liver, etc. I think it

is worth doing them once, but probably not repeatedly.

You might want to look into SIBO (small intestine bacterial

overgrowth). This is supposed to be a common cause of IBS. Try

searching for " Mark Pimental IBS SIBO " or similar. I think SCD

(specific carbohydrate diet) is especially helpful for this problem.

There is a hydrogen breath test for SIBO, but you could also just

try the diet and see if it helps. There are a number of websites

for SCD, here is the one I remember:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/

The comprehensive GI tests I suggested actually give a lot of other

information about the state of your gut, not just pathogens. They

are not absolutely necessary for everyone, but I'd say it is worth

more consideration for someone with an all low hair test. The ones

I'm talking about are Metametrix GI Effects, DDI CSA, and Genova CDSA.

The Metametrix test is relatively new and supposed to be very

sensitive for identifying pathogens because it uses DNA analysis.

> > Did your symptoms stay improved for awhile after you stopped the

> > Flagyl, or did they come back right away?

>

> It depends. First time symptoms went away for about a year. Second

> time a few weeks, third time a month. Very weird! Flagyl also has

> immunomodulogical effects, so I was thinking it may be changing how

> my immune system is reacting (to Hg maybe?).

I didn't know Flagyl had immunomodulating effects - that's

interesting. It's nice that the benefit persists for awhile.

I wonder if it is actually the improved immune function that

persists, or if it just takes some time for the imbalanced flora

to develop again to the point that it causes symptoms.

> > 1) what are you doing for GI support - how much probiotics? what

> > type of diet? enzymes? hcl? any anti-pathogen agents, natural or

> Rx?

> > anything else for your gut?

>

> I take VSL twice a day as a probiotic, take Betaine on occasion, have

Your hair test says to take betaine hcl regularly. Digestive enzymes

can also help to digest stuff better before it goes lower in your gut

where it can feed the bad pathogens.

> taken anti-parasitic herbal medications, dewormers, GSE etc. If its

> a parasite, its a pretty hardy one.

With some parasites I think you do have to be very persistent with

treatment because you have to get the existing critters and the ones

that hatch later.

You don't say if you actually got any improvement from using these.

They won't help if the parasite is not in the gut (at least I don't

think the herbal/natural things work systemically, not totally sure).

You might need a systemic anti-parasitic drug - maybe the flagyl is

addressing this to some extent but not completely eradicating the

problem.

> Not sure what SCD is but again, if was diet related then I would have

> thought that when I was asymptomtic that I could have triggered the

> symptoms with diet, but I can't.

Maybe it takes a few weeks on your existing diet for the flora to

become sufficiently imbalanced to cause symptoms.

> would test for that. Is mercury illness and parasites related at all?

Mercury screws up the flora imbalance in our guts in various ways.

It screws up immune function which can allow the bad flora to

proliferate, (I think) it can directly kill the good flora, it can

reduce stomach acid which normally kills the pathogenic stuff that

comes in with food, it can cause reduced adrenal function which

impairs the body's ability to fight infections, and perhaps other

effects, too.

So parasites and other pathogen problems are not an uncommon problem

in people with mercury problems.

--

[Guest guest]

Maybe the flagyl has a side affect of increasing bile flow.

Having darker stools would be a sure sign of that.

I always feel better with chelation.. as it too improves my

digestion. I think I read that ALA improves bile flow as

well.. I am quite sure my ecoli infection is improving as with

my last chelation my symptoms have improved. No problems this

time with my kidneys , bladder and my lower bowel feels improved/

I shall keep you posted after I have finished this round..

Nanci

[Guest guest]

Only if I eat foods that don't agree with me. But the gut can be a

sensitive thing with mercury poisoning. Some of us have gut yeast we

have to treat daily. Others have bacterial problems, parasites etc.

The fact that it got better on flagyl kind of indicates something is

going on....maybe there's more bacteria...

Are you on any probiotics? I would add those first, then move to

digestive enzymes. It might also be worth testing for

bacteria/parasites. There are natural herbs for them if they are present.

Also muscle contractions/spasms can be eased with magnesium. (this

sounds like spasms)So it makes sense to be sure your getting enough of

this.

Constant jaw clenching..you need zinc! I find that if I don't take my

zinc, this problem comes back. I need 50mg a day.

>

> I am wondering if anyone else seems to have almost constant vague

abdominal pain like I do. It never goes away, just sometimes

diminishes a bit. It feels as if my intestines are constantly clenched

tightly like a fist. I had thought that maybe the mercury is causing

either the nerves or the muscles themselves to cramp constantly,

similar to the way my jaw constantly clenches, whether I am awake or

asleep. I did some research and mercury does seem to have this effect

on muscle tissue but I can't say for sure that's why my gut is sore.

It got temporarly better while taking Flagyl so I am not sure what is

going on there, as that would indicate a bacterial infection. Anyone

get this symptom?

>

>