Re: siblings and new babies

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/10/01 07:12:07 GMT Daylight Time,

nct-coffee writes:

> I keep telling myself that. I just feel so sad, I had (naiively perhaps)

> envisaged this wonderful time with Mari involved with the baby and the 3 of

> us snuggling up together in the mornings but instead she is so angry at me,

> at the baby, at everyone, it really hurts to see her sad like this. She'd

> never hit before and now she hits me, pulls at Nia's legs when I've got her

> in the sling, runs away from me, screams at me - they are all new behaviours

> and it's getting to me

>

>

My DD2 was like this when I had DD3. My DS had accepted DD1 no problems

(18mnth gap) and DD1 had accepted DD2 no problems (25 mnth gap). DD2 was 2

yrs 9 mnths when DD3 was born and although she was fully involved before the

birth and full of how she was going to help etc. I was only in hospital for 8

hrs and she was quite happy when they first met but within a few weeks she

was atrocious.

She couldn't be left alone with the baby as she liked to poke her rather too

vigourously. She also bit her a few times (one of the few times I ever

smacked was following a bite) She was into naming parts of the body at the

time and one of her favourite things was to point at the babys eyes, ears,

nose etc but not stop at pointing IYSWIM. She also piled lots of things into

the crib on top of the baby, saying that she wanted them or she took

everything away saying they were hers/too big for baby/she wanted to play

with them for a bit.

She began to throw tantrums especially when we went out (very embarrassing)

and she had been dry but started either wetting or asking for help to use the

potty on the other side of the room every time I sat down to breastfeed.

Having said all this I don't know how much help I can be as I never came up

with any instant answers she eventually grew out of it (she loved her by the

time she was a few months old). I did try hard to spend time with her when

baby was asleep (older 2 were at school) and do things emphasising that only

big girls could do baking/painting/modelling and how lucky she was that she

was big and not still a baby. We also looked at her baby book with photos of

her in and talked about what she was like as a baby and how she used to

breastfeed and that she was getting bigger just like her brother and sister

did. In contrast we also played babies were she went back to being a

baby/wearing a nappy/pretending to BF until she decided she liked being a big

sister.

The hardest thing to deal with was her shouting that she didn't love me any

more when she was in a tantrum I knew she didn't mean it really but it still

hurt :-(

Looking at her personality now she is still fiercely independant, opinionated

and will argue black is white rather than admit she is wrong. She tends to

swing between being the most exasperating or the most loving girl about 10

times a week.

I'd say keep telling Mari how much you love her and that you will always love

her whatever she does (DD2 used to misbehave and then ask if I still loved

her Yes but I don't love your behaviour) and spend as much time as you can

with her. Does she go to nursery/playgroup and does she like it? Is this a

way of spending time with the new baby while she is occupied. Hope she

settles down soon :-)))

Donna

Mum to (17)

Kimberley(16), Kayleigh(14),

(11), Kara (4) [homebirth at last]

[Guest guest]

> I'd say keep telling Mari how much you love her and that you

will always love

> her whatever she does (DD2 used to misbehave and then ask

if I still loved

> her Yes but I don't love your behaviour) and spend as much

time as you can

> with her.

Sam (DS1) responded to this eventually - although his basic

approach was to completely ignore Joe (DS2) most of the time!

He would soon tell me if Joe was crying though...

'Mummy!!! Newbaby!!! Funnynoise!!!!'

It will be strange this time as they will be 7.5 and just over 5

years old - has anyone else had a gap like this? At least new

baby is male as well so they will be fascinated by his 'tinky' if

nothing else! and they can lend him their toys (thank goodness

the 'my first set' didn't go to the nearly new sale last

time)

Caroline

[Guest guest]

At least new

> baby is male as well so they will be fascinated by his 'tinky' if

> nothing else!

Depite everything, this list still makes me laugh!! I've never heard

of a " tinky " but it has to be a spin off from watching the

Teletubbies - poor Tinky Winky gets an awful lot of stick LOL!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I've got 9 1/2 years between DD1 and DS - an excellent gap. She was

basically interested, happy to hold, not at all bothered by new arrival and

went off babies totally, very quickly, so ignored him. Perfect scenario.

DS was 14 months when DD2 arrived and very quickly couldn't remember a time

without her. They're just beginning to bicker now, but basically are very

close. DD2 will be 2 in December, so I'm just beginning to think I should

be grateful that I haven't caught again, yet. She's a madam at the best of

times, and I don't anticipate that she will take kindly to a new arrival if

we're ever lucky enough to have one.

Vicki Portman

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

Re: siblings and new babies

>

>

> > I'd say keep telling Mari how much you love her and that you

> will always love

> > her whatever she does (DD2 used to misbehave and then ask

> if I still loved

> > her Yes but I don't love your behaviour) and spend as much

> time as you can

> > with her.

>

> Sam (DS1) responded to this eventually - although his basic

> approach was to completely ignore Joe (DS2) most of the time!

> He would soon tell me if Joe was crying though...

> 'Mummy!!! Newbaby!!! Funnynoise!!!!'

> It will be strange this time as they will be 7.5 and just over 5

> years old - has anyone else had a gap like this? At least new

> baby is male as well so they will be fascinated by his 'tinky' if

> nothing else! and they can lend him their toys (thank goodness

> the 'my first set' didn't go to the nearly new sale last

> time)

> Caroline

>

>

>

> *** NCT enquiry line - 0 ***

>

> Live chat http://www.yahoogroups.com/chat/nct-coffee

>

> Have you found out about all the other groups for the NCT online?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Caroline wrote:

It will be strange this time as they will be 7.5 and just over 5

> years old - has anyone else had a gap like this? >>>>>>

Mine were younger when my DS3 was born DS2 was almost 4 and DS1 was 5

3/4. They were totally fine with him, thought he was cute, happy

to entertain themselves. Not too much trouble to them until he

started to move and wreck their games. Now aged 2 he still wrecks

their games and is tolerated rather than played with. They do like to

do the big brother bit with him and DS1 is great at helping. Like

last weekend when I felt really grotty, DS1 (now 8)got him out of the

bath and ready for bed, made tea for him and read his bedtime story!

However the gap between DS1+2 was 21 months - that was good DS1 was

too young to realise that DS2 was something he could be upset about.

But now, they fight and bicker constantly. They drive me nuts

together but individually they are wonderful.

A friend had a large gap between her 1st two (all girls) 5 years and

the eldest really did have problems with her baby sister, even now

the eldest plays alone and the younger two (gap 18 months) play

together.

I think we did say before on this list that there is no ideal gap, it

depends on each child, and you cannot predict how the child will

react.

Trisha

SAHM to 3 boys

[Guest guest]

>I've got 9 1/2 years between DD1 and DS - an excellent gap. She was

>basically interested, happy to hold, not at all bothered by new arrival and

>went off babies totally, very quickly, so ignored him. Perfect scenario.

>DS was 14 months when DD2 arrived and very quickly couldn't remember a time

>without her. They're just beginning to bicker now, but basically are very

>close. DD2 will be 2 in December, so I'm just beginning to think I should

>be grateful that I haven't caught again, yet. She's a madam at the best of

>times, and I don't anticipate that she will take kindly to a new arrival if

>we're ever lucky enough to have one.

>

>Vicki Portman

>

>http://www.plushpants.co.uk

My mother claims to have had *no* problems with jealousy with us over

new arrivals (I was 5 when my brother was born and 9 when my sister

was born, the day before my brother's 4th birthday. My sister was, as

far as any of us can remember, the perfect baby and that was where I

acquired my taste for cloth nappies and becoming an HV! I was already

a home birth and breastfeeding supporter :-))

We didn't have any problems with DS1 who was 17 months when DS2 was

born. (I was a bit wary - as an HV my observation had been that the

18 month gap caused the greatest stress and most people seemed to be

fairly doom and gloom about it, apart from a lovely librarian who had

two girls even closer together and was very encouraging) He did shove

DS2 about when they were both a bit older - throwing something at

Limum seemed to be his way of saying he was tired and needed a nap

:-( It is quite a challenge to handle this hurting a defenceless and

innocent baby as one would wish!

I'm glad to have conceived again that quickly as I suspect it could

have been a different kettle of fish otherwise - and I console myself

about not having any more with the thought that DS2 wouldn't take

kindly to it just now, - and seems likely to make an *awful* middle

child! Part of the reason DH wanted a close gap was because his

parents had two girls with the same gap and then five years before he

was born and he didn't think that was good and he's very twitchy

about chromosomal disorders - so he's unlikely to relent when the

boys are older, even if we were able to beat the menopause.

--

jennifer@...

Vaudin

[Guest guest]

So far we've been lucky and had no jealously problems with any of ours.

Bethany was too young at 19 months to make much of Lawrie, and with the

younger two children the 'baby' has always been really thoughtful and

brought them wonderful presents to ease the meeting ;o)

They were particularly fortunate when Alfie was born as etoys had just

closed down and I'd stocked up on bargains. Might sound like bribery I

suppose but they were really looking forward to the birth because they knew

the baby would bring them toys and they have a very positive association

with their first meeting.

Hannah, 27

Mum to Bethany 7, Lawrence 5 1/2, Verity 3, Alfie 7 months

Visit me on the web at :-

http://hannahshome.20m.com

[Guest guest]

My sister brought me a Tiny Tears - I was convinced that was why Mum had

been so fat, what with a tiny baby and a 'big' doll in her tummy!

DS brought DD1 some roller blades. DD2 didn't bring DS anything as I didn't

think he'd get it at 14 months. He was a little cross with me for being in

hospital for a week, but loved the baby, and forgave me very quickly.

Vicki Portman

http://www.plushpants.co.uk

> So far we've been lucky and had no jealously problems with any of ours.

> Bethany was too young at 19 months to make much of Lawrie, and with the

> younger two children the 'baby' has always been really thoughtful and

> brought them wonderful presents to ease the meeting ;o)

[Guest guest]

Donna wrote:

> She couldn't be left alone with the baby as she liked to poke her rather too

> vigourously.

Behaviour sounds very similar. Mari likes to squeeze Nia until she squeals

- luckily she's a very passive babi. Difficult to deal with because I

don't want to stop Mari from touching Nia because of the implied rejection.

> She began to throw tantrums especially when we went out (very embarrassing)

I was almost reduced to violence last weekend - out shopping Mari screaming

- Gethyn and I studiously ignoring her whilst BP going through roof - and I

thought if one more person looks at me then at her I'm going to say:

" she's 3, she'll grow out of it what's your excuse? and punch them " !!

> Having said all this I don't know how much help I can be as I never came up

> with any instant answers she eventually grew out of it (she loved her by the

> time she was a few months old)

Hearing about such similar behaviours helps a lot, to know it's not

something that I've created and hearing it gets better is music to my ears -

I know it will but I need to hear it right now

> I did try hard to spend time with her when baby was asleep (older 2 were at

> school) and do things emphasising that only big girls could do

> baking/painting/modelling and how lucky she was that she was big and not still

> a baby.

> In contrast we also played babies were she went back to being a

> baby/wearing a nappy/pretending to BF until she decided she liked being a big

> sister.

Don't know how far to go with this one as Mari says " and I'm Mami's babi " ,

makes me unsure whether to emphasize the big girl thing, it's just such a

balancing act. But I think it's good news that she's finally decided she

wants to sleep with a big girls quilt (not in her baby sleeping bag) AND

just today she finally asked us to take the sides of her cot (it's a cot

bed) so maybe just maybe we've got a breakthrough

The BF thing is a major issue for Mari, given a chance she would start to

feed again and I'm just not prepared to do that but I think she picks up on

my nervousness when she's sniffing around my breasts (doesn't help that they

are really tender at the moment and she insists on 'throwing' herself onto

my lap).

> Looking at her personality now she is still fiercely independant, opinionated

> and will argue black is white rather than admit she is wrong. She tends to

> swing between being the most exasperating or the most loving girl about 10

> times a week.

Sounds like Mari too, I've always said she *is* 'the girl with the curl'!!

Oops seem to remember my father saying the same thing about me!

> Does she go to nursery/playgroup and does she like it?

She does go to nursery and really enjoys it but her behaviour is at its'

worst when she gets home from nursery tired and hungry.

> Hope she settles down soon :-)))

Thanks Donna

Jenni

Jenni & Gethyn

Mami & Dadi to:

17yrs - 6lbs - Hospital Birth

Mari 3yrs - 9lb 10oz - Home Birth

Nia 13/09/01 - 10lb 8oz - Home Water Birth

" If you don't know your options - you don't have any "

[Guest guest]

> She began to throw tantrums especially when we went out (very embarrassing)

>

> I was almost reduced to violence last weekend - out shopping Mari screaming

> - Gethyn and I studiously ignoring her whilst BP going through roof - and I

> thought if one more person looks at me then at her I'm going to say:

> " she's 3, she'll grow out of it what's your excuse? and punch them " !!

> Jenni & Gethyn

> Mami & Dadi to:

> 17yrs - 6lbs - Hospital Birth

> Mari 3yrs - 9lb 10oz - Home Birth

> Nia 13/09/01 - 10lb 8oz - Home Water Birth

Jenni

Last Easter in Carmarthen, DD2 () aged 7 threw a tantrum to beat all

tantrums. I had had to remove her from a shop because she was behaving very

badly - we had offered to buy her a toy but decided that it was not good

enough and wanted something else - when told no she started to make a scene so I

physically had to remove her from the shop. Not easy - I had her hand and she

threw herself to the ground, wailing 'Nooooo Mummeeee, pleeeease I didn't mean

it' I eventually picked her up, carried her up the stairs, we were in the

basement, and out of the shop where she promptly hurled her self on the floor

kicking and screaming. After ten minutes with this not working she picked

herself up and stood at the edge of the shop sniveling and giving me accusing

looks, several elderly welsh ladies walked past, and said " Oh dear poor little

girl " and looking at me in a fairly fierce manner to which I responded with " No

she isn't she is having a tantrum " I am pleased to say that!

is the last she has ever had, but then again I have also lost count of the

number she has had - She has always been a drama queen.

Caroline

Jersey

Whose DH has just gone out on a life boat shout and its gusting up to Force 9

Germain

Jersey

British Channel Islands

49º11'N

02º07'W

[Guest guest]

Caroline wrote:

> Last Easter in Carmarthen, DD2 () aged 7 threw a tantrum to

beat all tantrums. I had had to remove her from a shop because she

was behaving very badly

>

> Whose DH has just gone out on a life boat shout and its gusting up

to Force 9>>>>>>>>

Well, I could remove DS2 physically from a shop, but never DS1 he is

too big. Fortunately it is usually DS2 that had the tantrums -

something to do with 2nd children I think.

Hope your DDDH has a quick and safe shout and comes back to the fold

quickly and safely

Trisha

SAHM to 3 boys

[Guest guest]

Sorry DDDH should of course read DH.

I should not be rushing!

Trisha

[Guest guest]

Trisha wrote:

> Sorry DDDH should of course read DH.

>

> I should not be rushing!

> >>>>>

Now totally confused that the 1st message did not arrive but the 2nd

one did.

I must go and do some housework! and stop playing on the computer

Trisha