Families...

[Guest guest]

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone. All

started when she said she wouldn't be doing Xmas this year; Dad was going

away for New Year, Sheila was busy, she had a visitor all over the period

and then would be away straight after so she wasn't doing any family

celebration.

Oh poor you - I do sympathise - she may well have absolutely no idea how you

feel about this though. Did you mange to explain on the phone? Also - if

this is the first Christmas without she may be dreading it more than

you imagine. Perhaps saying she's 'not doing Christmas is just her way of

coping

((

If I were you I'd just say - 'we are having Christmas day at home together (the

three of you) and any family who wish to do so are welcome to join us' end of

story. It's up to them then.

Hannah, 28

Mum to Bethany 71/2, Lawrence nearly 6, Verity 3 1/2, Alfie 9 months

Visit me on the web at :-

http://hannahshome.20m.com

[Guest guest]

Oh Anneliese - poor you.

Sorry, I've no advice but sending (((hugs)))

Todman

Treasurer, Stansted Branch (R5)

Mum to , 3¾

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone. All

started when she said she wouldn't be doing Xmas this year; Dad was

going away for New Year, Sheila was busy, she had a visitor all over

the period and then would be away straight after so she wasn't doing

any family celebration.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the

phone.

Oh we always start awful arguments about christmas at least 3

months before the event - especially with 3 families who expect

you to be there (my 2 parents remarried and his family). Our

main thing this year is that we are stuck with MIL again as both

Dh's sisters have decided to escape the family thing and go

abroad for Christmas and New Year...I find it hard for one day

with MIL - but the whole festive season with her tagging along to

everything (even to my brothers on Christmas day) *plus* being

37 weeks pg on Christmas Day will send me over the edge!!!

So I do know a bit of this frustration - I was even tempted book a

hotel meal for christmas day and boxing day so we didn't have to

get involved in family politics.

I suggest you do a lovely family christmas for you , DH and TIm

and just let the others know what a lovely time you had - it's their

problem if they don't want to join in.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Help!

Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone. All started

when she said she wouldn't be doing Xmas this year; Dad was going away for New

Year, Sheila was busy, she had a visitor all over the period and then would be

away straight after so she wasn't doing any family celebration.

This really hurt me. I felt like all the time I'd been either single or half of

a childless couple I'd been prevented from hosting family Christmas celebrations

(and yes I had tried; when Mum was still alive I said I wanted her and Dad to

come to me. She understood but when she raised it with my sister was told " oh

what's the point in that, we're cooking, come to us " so she said to me " looks

like we've been told, never mind, another time " I insisted that we have Xmas

eve together in that case, planned the menus etc. SHe never came - onset of

cancer. The next time I planned Xmas as host I spent about half an hour on the

phone pussyfooting round and leading up to the issue and got my sister to agree

that I would do the main family meal. Five minutes after putting the phone down

she rang back and said " Graham says isn't our turkey good enough then? " . So I

caved in again. Her statement that she didn't feel that there was much point in

family Christmases any more just came across to me as " I no longer have any

interest so you can do what you like, it's unimportant now so you're welcome to

be the host " . I know this all looks/ sounds stupid, but after years of being

patronised (not deliberately but still...) as the guest I was looking forward to

a celebration centred on my child, my home, my style. But now family

celebrations are an irrelevance.

Yes, I know she has a dead child. I have a dead nephew. We both had him last

CHristmas too. We have both had a dead mother for 9 years, but that

(apparently) doesn't matter as much to me as it does to her and Dad. My mother

never saw my husband or my son. My grandfather never saw my son walk or talk.

My father finds major calendar milestones painful since my mother's death. Yup,

Tim will never know the wonderful, all-involving family Christmases that his

cousins did (and don't mention my inlaws, they'll probably never make the

journey down here again, they're trying not to put any strain on their health so

they'll have another few years left to sit in front of the TV rather than make

the journey down to enjoy their lovely Grandson).

I know this is selfish as hell but it hurts like mad that my family don't want

to celebrate with us and Tim. I also know that I will have to eat humble pie to

the most self-obsessed woman I know. She's my sister and I don't want to lose

her but I know that she will never admit that I had the slightest bit of reason

for saying what I did.

Sorry, rant over but I had to get this off my chest. FlyLady has gone to rats

tonight but I am going to clean my hairbrush in a minute... meant to do

clarinet practice yesterday or today but too upset.

If ANYONE can advise me on where to go from here I'm all ears.

Anneliese and Toddler Tim who's been lovely for a couple of days if you

discount the shredded library books...

[Guest guest]

Anneliese - families can be the pits can't they?

I hosted my first (and hopefully last) family Christmas last year

(parents, in-laws and 3 sisters in addition to the 4 or us) and I spent

most of my time either trying to pour oil on troubled waters or hiding

in the kitchen with a HUGE drink and pretending to be busy. I think it

is just such a stressful time of year - everyone has such high

expectations of what the 'ideal' Christmas should be like - that we are

bound to fail somewhere along the line. It must be particularly hard

for you all it being the first year after your nephew died.

I can't think of any 'magic solution' but try to concentrate on having a

special family day with Tim and Robin rather than worrying about

everyone else - if they want to join you then fine - that would be

lovely, if not don't let them ruin your day.

P.S. We have no plans for Christmas - will probably have pasta for lunch

as I refuse to cook a meal I know my children are going to refuse to

eat, as I'll only get cross!!

Anneliese Handley wrote:

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone.

[Guest guest]

> Help!

>

Anneliese, poor you. Take some time out to care for yourself.

Christmas and Families are always such a nightmare - they both seem

to bring out the worst in people, and the combination of both can be

lethal!

I agree with Hannah (?), have a wonderful family christmas just the

three of you. DO what you want, how you want and if the others want

to join you then that would be great, if they don't then it is their

loss not yours!

I will not even go into the row that has happened in this family over

Xmas this year - a summary is that we are now aLL going to my mums,

accompanied by MIL and FIL courtesy of the extreme selfishness

exhibited by BIL and SIL - 'nuff said!!

Take care

Beverly

PS Thank you so much for the wonderful link re - I posted it

on to her mum (who assured me that she had not written it!) and

printed it off to send to - when are we going to get together

for that ballet trip?!!!

[Guest guest]

Anneliese wrote:

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone. All started

> when she said she wouldn't be doing Xmas this year; Dad was going away for

> New Year, Sheila was busy, she had a visitor all over the period and then

> would be away straight after so she wasn't doing any family celebration.

>

If my memory serves me right your sister still has a son? so in some way she

is going to have to do Christmas whether she likes it or not.

What is your dad going to do for Christmas?

Maybe Christmas is just too raw for her remembering that last year she still

had her son and maybe it is just too difficult for her. Would she consider a

Christmas meal together the weekend before? even if it is just a chance for

you to exchange presents.

Even if you do manage to change her mind she might sulk through Christmas and

spoil it for you anyway. So maybe this year you have a lovely Christmas with

a child who is able to understand a little what all the presents are for, and

just please yourselves what you do. Sometimes I dream that it will be just

" us " with no family involvement but in reality that will never happen for

years to come.

There will be other Christmas celebrations but you do only have that one

sister.

(PS not that I am siding with her I think she should make some effort - from

what I can remember of her son from your emails loved life and would hate to

see his mum not celebrating).

Trisha

SAHM to 3 boys

Jack 8, 6 and Isaac 2

[Guest guest]

>I know this is selfish as hell

NO!!!! I don't think you are being selfish at all.

>but it hurts like mad that my family don't want to celebrate with us and Tim.

I'll bet it does.

We've encountered these kinds of issue as a family over the years -

and now I have my own family.

We were always expected to go to my paternal grandparents. And my

mother still grieves for the one sad little comment my maternal

grandmother made (and after all *she* was widowed when I was two)

that she'd never seen us open our Christmas presents. I wish my

mother had tried to do something about it rather than have to live

with that sadness - though my father can be pretty intransigent and I

am absolutely sure it would have meant a row and a half. Sometimes

due to the nature of his job, he had to work and he would sulk

through Christmas, despite my mother doing a really good one. Ack.

My cousin who was also subjected to this announced when he married

that he would be spending all his Christmasses at home in future -

because he had *never* had one. And the family seemed to think *he*

was being the funny one! Circumstances have changed since and I think

it would be appropriate for him to reconsider it as a blanket policy

- you can't spend the rest of your life trying to make up for/extract

revenge for wrongs that were done to you - but I can definitely

understand where he's coming from.

I love having everyone here for Christmas and there have been various

reasons why it has happened here a lot over recent years, but I feel

keenly that we should not get into a rut of doing it that way because

if and when people get really fed up of it, it will be more painful,

perhaps not be well expressed - and we won't know how to do it

without the usual crowd. My grandparents were like your sister - they

wanted everyone there ('cos they like little children (and admittedly

as a Minister he wasn't going to be able to go elsewhere himself) but

once the grandchildren had grown up, they went to the other,

downbeat, extreme. (But not quite downbeat enough not to inflict a

little bit of guilt and expect others to host their downbeatness!)

So that's why I have known all year that we should offer our presence

to 's family this Christmas - and it turns out that this is the

year they want to do a vast get together (25 in an average sized

house for Christmas dinner -including a Granny with Alzheimer's, a 3

month old baby and some rather disparate cultures, let alone

parenting styles). Could be a complete nightmare! (I'm thinking

they'll feed turkey and booze to my babies and smack them if they are

naughty...)

And next year might be interesting since all being well I'll have a

niece or nephew of my very own, and my sister will be living

somewhere more feasible for a big get together.

Incidentally, my Dad has mellowed quite a bit (with some firm

guidelines about appropriate behaviour from me, eek!) and I am really

impressed with how well we all get on at Christmas/New Year.

>I also know that I will have to eat humble pie to the most

>self-obsessed woman I know. She's my sister and I don't want to

>lose her but I know that she will never admit that I had the

>slightest bit of reason for saying what I did.

>

>Sorry, rant over but I had to get this off my chest. FlyLady has

>gone to rats tonight but I am going to clean my hairbrush in a

>minute... meant to do clarinet practice yesterday or today but too

>upset.

>

>If ANYONE can advise me on where to go from here I'm all ears.

Here's a suggestion - I suspect you will have to give up a wider

family Christmas this year (which would be quite enough humble pie to

my mind) and concentrate on making the most of a more intimate

Christmas than you would have chosen, but you could make the

arrangements *now* (or early in the New Year, perhaps things are too

raw right now) for everyone to be there next year. It will also be

further down the line from 's death - not that it won't hurt

of course, but they'll have a long time to get used to the idea that

little sister can do Christmas. Doesn't sound as if this approach is

guaranteed to work with your family, but might be worth a go?

--

jennifer@...

Vaudin

[Guest guest]

Thanks for moral support , Caroline, , Hannah, Beverley. I

have spoken to stepmother and Dad (who, star that he can be just said " I'm

sure things were said that shouldn't have been, but you never know when

you're going to need each other " and agreed that I should allow a bit of

cooling off and write a letter apologising (but as another friend said,

explaining what I feel, irrational though it may be).

The thing is, though, the whole point was that I wanted everybody to be

here! Not on Christmas day cos Berrie and Sheila can't do that anyway, but

some time over the period. I actually really really enjoy our festive get

together day, even while resenting that I'm not the hostess (which I don't

resent at the time anyway). I think it's so sad that it's kind of been

written off now. And died at the beginning of last December so it's

not even the first Christmas. Still a bit tearful about it all. Perhaps I

could break the habit of a lifetime and go to my Dad's for Christmas - but

then that'll put us in bad odour with Robin's parents (and probably Robin

too). Oh dear, need a few days still to sort myself out. Am I the only one

here who actually WANTS a big family traditional Christmas? (well not even

all that big actually! Robin finds my dad a very easy guest, luckily, but

Berrie and co could just come over for tea and mince pies if they want -

which she was probably going to suggest anyway but she didn't SAY that she

just said they wouldn't be having any family celebrations which made me

assume that we weren't welcome or needed).

Happier things, Beverley, my friend and I are going to " Onegin " on

December 1st. Robin is feeling a bit left out so we've tentatively

suggested that we all go up and have lunch and do some shopping in the

afternoon. Anyone got any tips on London plus toddler... EEEK! I THINK

we're also going to see something including Marguerite and Armand in Jan or

Feb but I'm not sure - 's being a bit lax in her bookings at the

moment.

Oh well, at least work has settled down.

Thanks everyone,

Anneliese and Toddler Tim

Re: Families...

Anneliese - families can be the pits can't they?

I hosted my first (and hopefully last) family Christmas last year

(parents, in-laws and 3 sisters in addition to the 4 or us) and I spent

most of my time either trying to pour oil on troubled waters or hiding

in the kitchen with a HUGE drink and pretending to be busy. I think it

is just such a stressful time of year - everyone has such high

expectations of what the 'ideal' Christmas should be like - that we are

bound to fail somewhere along the line. It must be particularly hard

for you all it being the first year after your nephew died.

I can't think of any 'magic solution' but try to concentrate on having a

special family day with Tim and Robin rather than worrying about

everyone else - if they want to join you then fine - that would be

lovely, if not don't let them ruin your day.

P.S. We have no plans for Christmas - will probably have pasta for lunch

as I refuse to cook a meal I know my children are going to refuse to

eat, as I'll only get cross!!

Anneliese Handley wrote:

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone.

[Guest guest]

> Help!

>

> Had awful major row with my sister this afternoon on the phone. All

started when she said she wouldn't be doing Xmas this year; Dad was

going away for New Year, Sheila was busy, she had a visitor all over

the period and then would be away straight after so she wasn't doing

any family celebration.

><snip>

I have been struggling with this, as Christmas isn't something we do,

but have been trying to equate it with Passover/Rosh Hashanah and all

our family based celebrations. The problem is, that we don't just

have one major bash, like Xmas, we have quite a few Jewish holidays

throughout the year, so there's always another one coming along, a bit

like a bus!

Tammy and fought over us this Rosh Hashanah, squabbling over who

should have us for the first night, which is the most prestigious.

But we have so many other days, there isn't only one, like Xmas.

My gut feeling is to go with Hannah. You can't force your sister to

want to come to you, or vice versa. But will you mind being just you

this year, or would you want to invite someone else instead of your

sister to make it more lively?

To say " isn't our turkey good enough for you? " is a blatant lack of

sensitivity. Why can't it be a " one yr I'll do it, one yr you'll do

it " agreement so that it's fair all round? I have a sister in law,

Judy, who is a well known " hogger " . She hogs all the visitors etc,

but even she knows that she has to release them sometimes, even if it

is for the less prestigious meals.

I guess my input isn't much use as our experiences are so different.

My sympathy is with you tho, it's sad if this festive time of year is

a source of aggro and rift.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

It must be a difficult time for you all Anneliese, especially coming up to

the beginning of December. I can see how important Christmas time is to you

as well. I love family Christmases and would be very sad if we didn't get

together. Actually my PIL have phoned this evening to say they might not

come (their flights are booked and paid for but they'll just lose the money

if they don't come), and while I will miss them, I'll feel terrible that

they're miles away and on their own (DH's brother lives in Oz). Maybe this

year, just plan it for you but do the whole works at your house. Then in a

few days time, send your sister a nice note explaining how you feel and

telling her that she's very welcome to join you if she'd like to. Maybe

with the anniversary of 's death coming up, she can't face making the

arrangements? Plus what do her husband and other son think or want? I

guess you don't know, but does your Dad? And if they can't/don't come, have

you got some friends you could invite instead? I know it's not the same as

having family, but we've had Christmases with various friends and it's been

lovely.

Hope you get something sorted out.

Will be thinking of you over the next few days/weeks.

Hannah

Re: Families...

Thanks for moral support , Caroline, , Hannah, Beverley. I

have spoken to stepmother and Dad (who, star that he can be just said " I'm

sure things were said that shouldn't have been, but you never know when

you're going to need each other " and agreed that I should allow a bit of

cooling off and write a letter apologising (but as another friend said,

explaining what I feel, irrational though it may be).

The thing is, though, the whole point was that I wanted everybody to be

here! Not on Christmas day cos Berrie and Sheila can't do that anyway,

but

some time over the period. I actually really really enjoy our festive get

together day, even while resenting that I'm not the hostess (which I don't

resent at the time anyway). I think it's so sad that it's kind of been

written off now. And died at the beginning of last December so

it's

not even the first Christmas. Still a bit tearful about it all. Perhaps

I

could break the habit of a lifetime and go to my Dad's for Christmas - but

then that'll put us in bad odour with Robin's parents (and probably Robin

too). Oh dear, need a few days still to sort myself out. Am I the only

one

here who actually WANTS a big family traditional Christmas? (well not

even

all that big actually! Robin finds my dad a very easy guest, luckily, but

Berrie and co could just come over for tea and mince pies if they want -

which she was probably going to suggest anyway but she didn't SAY that she

just said they wouldn't be having any family celebrations which made me

assume that we weren't welcome or needed).

[Guest guest]

And died at the beginning of last December

Ah - that's why I haven't heard of this before. I'm still quite new

here - if you don't mind my asking, what happened to ? What

a shame for you all to have the death of a child to cope with at any

time, especially Christmas. It's been magical for us since we

discovered my pregnancy in October '93, a baby or pregnancy at

Christmas is wonderful - I can't imagine coping with something like

this. Thinking of you all.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> And died at the beginning of last December

>

> Ah - that's why I haven't heard of this before. I'm still quite new

> here - if you don't mind my asking, what happened to ?

I was wondering what happened to too. So sorry to hear about

this. (as someone who has also lost a son, albeit grown up ( )

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

And died at the beginning of last December so it's

> not even the first Christmas.

Anneliese - quite probably, although they have got through one

Christmas (which must have been just awful last year) - they are

coming up to the first anniversary of his death and must be feeling

very emotional about that/or in denial about it, which is perhaps

colouring things?

thinking of you

Caro

[Guest guest]

> Am I the only one

>here who actually WANTS a big family traditional Christmas?

I like big family Xmases but I also like small ones, as long as we don't

spend all day on our own.

Last year's with friends in Australia was v unconventional for me and I

really enjoyed it.

--

Sue

[Guest guest]

I enjoy both too. We never spend Christmas with my family - there's no way

I could spend 2 days cooped up with them, and with no real traditions or

spiritual focus, my family Christmasses are not something to remember.

Christmas with my inlaws is much better, although last year we told them

that we would prefer to stay in our own house as it was much easier on the

children. They were fine with this as this is exactly what they did when

dh was a child. So last year, we stayed at home and did the full Delia

(well, as much as I could with the lack of ingredients). This may sound

mad, but I'm perfectly happy to host everyone at Christmas - I guess I like

to be in control.

This year, we are going to the inlaws, but it is an exception rather than a

new tradition of alternating. BIL has recently had a baby and since they

are going for Christmas, this is our only opportunity to see them. We are

quite lucky in the US in that we have Thanksgiving a month before

Christmas, which is basically a family reunion. There aren't really any

traditions associated with it, outside of the meal. So next week we are

loading everyone into the car and heading 260mi north (from balmy Indian

summer - 71deg today - into the land of lake effect snow, brrrrr).

Joyce

ps: I wrote a piece about our Christmas experiences in the US for an NCT

newsletter. If anyone wants to use it (probably too late now), they are

welcome to -

http://www.ameriscot.com/nct/christmas.htm

-----Original Message-----

From: Sue Woollett [sMTP:sue.ol@...]

I like big family Xmases but I also like small ones, as long as we don't

spend all day on our own.

[Guest guest]

Sue Woollett wrote:

> I like big family Xmases but I also like small ones, as long as we don't

> spend all day on our own.

Part of me is dreading spending the whole of Christmas Day on our own. My

ILs - who live 5 miles away haven't issued any sort of invitation yet, I

think they are waiting for one from us, but there's no way I'm going to bust

a gut at 8+ months pregnant. Maybe I'll pluck up the courage to invite

ourselves round for afternoon tea on Christmas day.

http://www.foxstitch.co.uk/

SAHWM to (4) and Kitty (2) with new arrival in January.

[Guest guest]

We decided a couple of years ago that we were going to start a tradition of

having Christmas Day on our own, just me, dh and the boys, on the basis that

children get soooooo excited about Christmas anyway and the introduction of

other people to the equation just increases the levels of excitement and, more

pertinently, noise. We always meet up with the rest of the family on other days

over the holiday period.

However, only a couple of years and we may have to forget that idea for this

year. Dh's family consist of his mum, his sister and her daughter. SIL has

been invited to spend Christmas with friends and doesn't want to accept because

this would leave MIL by herself, so muggins stepped in and said that we would

have MIL this year, so that SIL and daughter can go and enjoy themselves

elsewhere. Where do you get those zips for mouths?

Alison

Part of me is dreading spending the whole of Christmas Day on our own. My

ILs - who live 5 miles away haven't issued any sort of invitation yet, I

think they are waiting for one from us, but there's no way I'm going to bust

a gut at 8+ months pregnant. Maybe I'll pluck up the courage to invite

ourselves round for afternoon tea on Christmas day.