So Many Questions

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2003 10:30:04 AM Mountain Standard Time,

mmmbeer@... writes:

My hope is that I will be able to go out to eat, have a few drinks

with friends, and generally try to live a normal life.

You'll be able to go out and eat--low fat, low protein foods, high carbs and

NO ALCOHOL!! You should limit your fat intake to no more than 20 gm a day

(read labels and serving sizes), eat lots of fruits and vegetables, stay away

from

red meat of any kind, and eat small meals during the day rather than three

large ones. Heidi calls it grazing. Fish and shellfish, so long as they aren't

cooked in oil or butter, are probably okay, but beware of things like butter,

margarine (both have about 5gm fat per tablespoon), vegetable oil, and other

cooking fats.

If you want to stay relatively healthy with a minimum of flare ups, you're

going to have to change your eating habits dramatically and avoid alcohol at all

costs. Nyquil and other OTC cold preparations contain alcohol, as does

non-alcoholic beer, and even innocuous things such as vanilla extract and

vanilla

beans. You can always order a " virgin " cocktail, and still enjoy the social

aspect of dinner and a drink. Diluting alcohol won't work, as it's still

alcohol.

Spicy foods don't bother me, but red meat absolutely sets me off. Even a

teeny amount. Also, people with pancreatitis are encouraged to quit smoking as

that can also be a trigger and cause pain.

You should really find a way to have a doctor. If for no other reason than to

be able to prescribe enzymes to aid digestion and help the pancreas out, and

to make sure you have access to prescription pain meds. Many of us have had

many surgeries, stents to drain pancreatic ducts, and many other procedures that

you might face if you don't live, breathe and eat a strict low fat, low

protein, high carb diet. And if you continue to consume alcohol, you'll almost

surely put yourself in a near death situation. And if you develop diabetes (most

of us will eventually), alcohol again is forbidden.

You might wonder why some people can drink all the alcohol they want, eat

whatever they want throughout their lives with no pancreatic problem. No one

knows why some people develop pancreatitis, and others don't. A lot of it may

have

to do with heredity. Do you have anyone in your family that says they have

ulcers? They might really have pancreatitis. Not all attacks require

hospitalization, but the more frequent they are, the more damage to the

pancreas, and the

more likely you will be hospitalized.

Unfortunately, pancreatitis becomes a way of life. Very rarely is it cured,

so it's important to continue to eat properly and avoid alcohol, stress, and

heavy physical excercise to keep your pancreatitis in check.

Marcy in Colorado

[Guest guest]

Three months ago I was admitted to the ER with a pancreatitis attack

(first and hopefully last) and due to lack of health insurance (and

the fact that my doctor assumed I was a drunk), he didn't give me the

time of day let alone answer any questions I may have had.

Thankfully the patient in the bed next to me was in for the same

thing, so I took the snippets of medical advice that his doctor gave

him (at least what I could remember through the Demerol fog).

First of all, I have a hard time believing that mine is alcohol

related. Ten to fifteen years ago, I was a heavy drinker. For the

past few years, my alcohol consumption has dropped dramatically. I

only consume beer (I don't know if that makes any difference at all),

and then very rarely more than 2 or 3 in a sitting. I wasn't

drinking every day like the hospital assumed (they even wanted to

give me Valium to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms!). My friends

even laughed at me for being a " lightweight " .

My hope is that I will be able to go out to eat, have a few drinks

with friends, and generally try to live a normal life. Without the

luxury of a medical professional, I'm trying to figure this out on my

own. Unlike what I've be reading, after my attack, the pain didn't

magically go away after a few days, so I'm guessing that I'm leaning

more towards chronic than acute. The pain is manageable (to the

point that I can't really afford to see a doctor to prescribe

something for it), but I don't really feel like living the remainder

of my days in pain (I plan to be here quite a long time!).

In any event, here are a list of questions that I've been stewing

over and haven't really found answers for:

1) How long does it take to eat something before it " hits " the

pancreas?

2) How long does it take to drink something before it " hits " the

pancreas?

3) Can alcohol be diluted by drinking lots of water so its effect on

the pancreas is less severe (or is this just a pipe dream?)?

4) Do excessively spicy foods have any effect (I used to consume a

bottle of hot sauce every two weeks, in addition to jalapenos and

giardinierra on everything. Now that's good eatin'!)? Since my

attack, I've been avoiding hot stuff just in case, but if I can

eat 'em, I'd like to know!

5) Will drinking a lot of water " flush out " the pancreas or is it

just making the pancreas work harder?

6) I've also seen that many websites suggest eating diets high in

carbs and low in fat which is in direct conflict with a diet for

diabetics (a possible " complication " of CP). Correct me if I'm

wrong, but the thought behind not eating large meals and fatty foods

is so the pancreas doesn't have to work as hard. Since the pancreas

secretes insulin to turn the carbs into fat, wouldn't an excessive

amount of carbs also make the pancreas work hard?

Oh well, that's all the questions I could remember off the top of my

head. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Guest guest]

MMBeer,

If you value your life, and plan to live a long time, as you said,

you need to leave alcohol in your past life. It's that simple.

Once you have pancreatitis, alcohol consumption can be deadly.

Although you may be able to go out with friends and have that

lightweight beer or two and feel no ill effects, what's happening to

that alcohol in your damaged pancreas will eventually kill you.

Statistically, the highest amount of fatalities with chronic

pancreatic patients are due to continuance of alcohol consumption.

It's not from acute attacks, nor complicated surgeries....it's from

alcohol. Ask yourself whether the risk is worth it.

Now to answer your other questions:

> 1) How long does it take to eat something before it " hits " the

pancreas?

The digestive process actually starts at the smell of food.

Receptors initiate production of saliva, and once the food hits the

mouth, the process is already under way. I believe the food " hits "

the pancreas, where the amylase, lipase and protease enzymes are

stored, in less than 30 minutes.

> 2) How long does it take to drink something before it " hits " the

pancreas?

I think it's a safe assumption that a clear liquid would pass through

a little faster, less than 10 minutes.

> 3) Can alcohol be diluted by drinking lots of water so its effect

on the pancreas is less severe (or is this just a pipe dream?)?

That's a pipe dream.

> 4) Do excessively spicy foods have any effect (I used to consume a

> bottle of hot sauce every two weeks, in addition to jalapenos and

> giardinierra on everything. Now that's good eatin'!)? Since my

> attack, I've been avoiding hot stuff just in case, but if I can

> eat 'em, I'd like to know!

Low fat foods are best for chronic pancreatitis. Since the

pancreatic enzymes (amylase, lipase and protease) produced by the

exocrine system are damaged by the disease, digestion of fats and

proteins is compromised. Trying to make the pancreas " work " to

digest high fats and protein causes additional pain and stress on the

organ. Individual tolerance of spicy foods is something that is best

left to the individual to determine. Some patients can handle them,

others can't. You need to determine your own triggers cautiously by

experimentation.

> 5) Will drinking a lot of water " flush out " the pancreas or is it

> just making the pancreas work harder?

The pancreas becomes dehydrated very easily, so water consumption is

very important. It is recommended that you consume at least an

amount that would be half your body weight in ounces. Example: Body

weight of 150: half of that would be 75 = 75 ounces of water needed

daily. Not only is this healthy for your pancreas, it also promotes

good colon and intestinal health.

> 6) I've also seen that many websites suggest eating diets high in

carbs and low in fat which is in direct conflict with a diet for

diabetics (a possible " complication " of CP). Correct me if I'm

wrong, but the thought behind not eating large meals and fatty foods

is so the pancreas doesn't have to work as hard. Since the pancreas

secretes insulin to turn the carbs into fat, wouldn't an excessive

amount of carbs also make the pancreas work hard?

While your last sentence is true, the recommended diet for chronic

pancreatitis IS low fat, low protein and high carb. Being a person

with chronic pancreatitis, and a type 1 diabetic, the CP diet

contradicts healthy diabetic diet recommendations. It's a Catch-22

for some of us. But non-diabetic persons with CP are advised to eat

low fat, protein and high carb. Go figure!

I hope this information helps you. Please post again with any

questions. Check out the library at the following website for some

excellent reference information:

http://www.top5plus5.com/

With hope and prayers,

Heidi

Heidi H. Griffeth

South Carolina

SC & SE Regional Rep.

PAI, Intl.

Note: All comments or advice are personal opinion only, and

should not be substituted for professional medical consultation.

>

> Oh well, that's all the questions I could remember off the top of

my

> head. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Hi!

First of all, I am so sorry that you are being neglected, both

because you don't have insurance and because of some weird

uncalled for prejudice against people who drink! I work in health

care, and I assure you, I would never treat someone poorly or

deny him medical care because I suspect he is a drinker! We

are suppose to be non-judgmental. And anyways, research is

being reported that alcohol may not cause pancreatitis but just

exacerbate a pre-existing case of chronic pancreatitis that arose

from other reasons. The reason that some groups believe this

is that there are many more heavy drinkers out there without

pancreatitis than with.

As far as your questions:

> 1) How long does it take to eat something before it " hits " the

> pancreas?

For me, all I have to do is think about food and it hits me - either

like a kick in the stomach by a clydesdale horse hoof, or a slow

achy, boring build-up. Then I get another " peaK' about a half

hour after I eat. Does not seem to be related to the type of food I

eat. Sometimes just water will do it.

2) How long does it take to drink something before it " hits " the

> pancreas?

When I had a drink this summer before I knew I had pancreas

problems, I had severe problems a few hours after I had a

margarita. Now I DO NOT DRINK any alcohol, at all, period.

> 3) Can alcohol be diluted by drinking lots of water so its effect

on the pancreas is less severe (or is this just a pipe dream?)?

No Idea - suspect it is a pipe dream(?)

> 4) Do excessively spicy foods have any effect

No idea - for me it doesn't seem to matter - I eat hot pepper

flakes on lots of my food.

I cannot speak to your other questions - sorry.

I wish you good luck and I hope that you can get medical care

through your local social services. You really deserve to have

your questions answered by a personal physician!

Laurie

[Guest guest]

Hi, You didn't give your name, so I don't know how to address you.

I know you've heard from several others regarding your questions, but

here's my two cents worth if they'll help you.

1. How long something hits the pancreas varies per person depending upon

how quickly your intestinal system work. I can usually tell if something

is bothering my pancreas within about 15 min-1/2 hour after I've taken

my first bite of food. Some days, it doesn't matter if I eat at all, the

pain is just plain bad.

2. If I drink or eat anything with alcohol, I'll know in 15 minutes and

the pain is really bad with just one sip or one bit. Because of this I

can't even cook with alcohol. Many of those who have said that no

alcohol is the way to go. They are right. Once you've had pancreatitis,

your pancreas becomes sensittive to all the causes of pancreas and you

are more likely to have a reoccurance than someone who's never had

pancreatitis. The more cases you have, the worst your pancreas reacts.

Evem if you don't have pain when you drink, the alcohol is damaging the

pancreas. Unfortunately, the doctors don't have an explanation for why

this occurs, they just know it does by many years of research.

Pancreatitis is one of the most complicated illness and there is much

that the doctors still don't know. So, the rule of thumb for anyone

with pancreatitis is NO ALCOHOL, EVER. That means you even have to check

things like cough medicine to make sure it doesn't have any alcohol.

3. Alcohol can't be diluted by water or anything else. Like I said, I

can't even cook with the stuff and usually that's supposed to be cooked

off. Sorrry, but drinking any alcohol at this point onward is pretty

much a pipe dream, unless you want to either die right away or spending

many years dieing a very slow and very painful death. Your job now is

to minimize the amount of damage to your pancreas. I'd check out the

following website as it is very informative on what's going on with your

pancreas and what your options are.

http://www.hopkins-gi.org/pages/latin/templates/index.cfm?pg=disease1 & organ=4 & di\

sease=24 & lang_id=1

If the link doesn't work, copy and paste the whole string, including

any that may have wrapped to the line below and put it in your browser

window. It's the Hopkin's GI website. I'd also suggest reading as

many of the links listed on the Yahoo board site for this group. Many of

them are very good sources of information.

4. Spicy foods is dependent upon the person.; Some people can handle

spices and some can't. What food can be eaten is very dependent upon the

person's individual system. Sorry, it's going to be trial and error for

that. The only given about food, is no fried food and as low/no fat as

you can get. Fat is another trigger for pancreatitis, just like alcohol is.

5. Water won't flush out the pancreas. It's only real function with

pancreatitis is to keep the body hydrated. Your pancreas's main function

is to help you digest food, but food doesn't actually ever enter the

pancreas. Your pancreas sends out enzymes into your stomach and

intestinal tract to digest your food. With pancreatitis, those enzymes

get trapped in the pancreas and they become active inside the pancreas

(not supposed to happen) and start to digest your own pancreas.

Usually, once you are having an attack, standard treatment is to stop

all food intake, even ice chips. That's why most people are admitted to

the hospital. So that they can get nutrients via IV, instead of eating.

Then, it just waiting for your pain to either go away, or at least calm

down enough for your normal dose of pain meds can deal with the pain.

6. The diet of high carbs and low fat is the one that works the best.

This is because with chronic pancreatitis, the first enzymes to have

trouble are those enzymes that digest protein. That's why it makes it

harder for the pancreas to digest meat, because the body isn't getting

those enzymes, either because they are trapped, or for some, they have

problems producing them. Usually, people have more problems with animal

fat at first over vegetable fat. Eventually, over time, even carbs will

become hard to digest and eating anything causes pain, swelling,

sometimes infection. Pancreatitis isn't a very pretty disease. Many of

us, at some point or other, have to go on TPN,(Total Parental Nutrition

- basically sugar direct entered into the bloodstream) because we have

problems getting the food by digesting them, so they put it into the

bloodstream. If you want more detail information on how the pancreas

deals with protein and carbs, your best bet is to do a search online

regarding those issues and read the articles that come up. Just a

warning, most of the articles use highly technical medical terms, so you

might want to invest in a medical dictionary. Tabers is usually one of

the better ones.

--

Kimber

Vallejo, CA

hominid2@...

Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed

physician or health care professional.