Re: OT-Antifungals was Re: 2-3 month die off question

[Guest guest]

Dear , I will remember this about clostridia not being starved out by

SCD...because they thrive on protein. I will research into this one. Because I

know that yeast can not survive with out the other bad guys....and can benefit

from sugars.....but when the bad guys die eating SCD....the yeast can't live

without their buddies. I will see if clostridia is " symbiotic " too, and get

back to you guys.

Thankfully clostridia hasn't been an issue in our ASD family. I highly doubt if

we are alone.

I only share my experience strength and hope....those who can not relate....I

can't help. I don't expect to help everybody either. This world is too big.

Yet, some can benefit from what has worked in for us and in many others. This

is why I continue to share what I have learned. We had miserable results using

anti-fungals and antibiotics. I realize that we are all unique to some degree.

We are new to SCD...but not new to trying to " break this vicious cycle " , with

other means that did not work. Thus, far this is the only thing that worked and

makes since.

Thank you for your constructive criticism, I have taken note of it.

Antoinette

[Guest guest]

Antoinette wrote:

<<I will remember this about clostridia not being starved out by SCD...because

they thrive on protein. I will research into this one. Because I know that

yeast can not survive with out the other bad guys....and can benefit from

sugars.....but when the bad guys die eating SCD....the yeast can't live without

their buddies. I will see if clostridia is " symbiotic " too, and get back to you

guys.>>

Elaine definitely did say that SCD can't get rid of clostridia.... that it would

require the proper antibiotics. There are probably quite a few posts over on the

Lyris list about clostridia, with comments from Elaine.

Patti

[Guest guest]

Patti wrote: Elaine definitely did say that SCD can't get rid of clostridia....

that it would require the proper antibiotics. There are probably quite a few

posts over on the Lyris list about clostridia, with comments from Elaine.

It was in the GAPS book that talks about how she believes that this " bad guy "

can not thrive if the gut is put back into symbiosis (balance). Yet does not say

in detail how this happens she just says that the SCDiet can do this.

I have also read in this book that it was the antibiotics that caused this

clostridia imbalance in the first place (of course their are many types of

antibiotics though). That when antibiotics are given frequently that this

kills the good guys that usually keep the " bad guys " in check...causing

clostridia overgrowth and candida overgrowth. I do realize that this is not

Elaine though. I look forward to researching this. Since I am a ELAINE

" Google scholar " lol!!!

Thank you for keeping us straight. I do not want to say anything that will harm

others. I am being careful these days. I do not know all lol! God has made

sure that I have learned this message in the last two years. lol! He gave me a

CELIAC FAMILY and a autistic daughter. Keeps anyone open to new

knowledge....but trying to interpret what is right or wrong....a true job for

any parent of an autistic! So far Elaine's ways have worked I would trust her

before anybody else.

Antoinette

[Guest guest]

There are particular antibiotics that specifically target clostridia. Then, of

course, after they're given, you need to rebuild the gut flora and continue with

SCD.

I can't speak to the GAPS book... having not read it. I suppose this might be

one area where Elaine has a slightly different opinion. I guess I have to say

that I prefer that we refer to Breaking The Vicious Cycle here on this list...

first and foremost.

Look on www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info , in the Knowledge Base, under

" Clostridium Difficile " ... several references there.

Patti, interim moderator

Re: OT-Antifungals was Re: 2-3 month die off question

Patti wrote: Elaine definitely did say that SCD can't get rid of

clostridia.... that it would require the proper antibiotics. There are probably

quite a few posts over on the Lyris list about clostridia, with comments from

Elaine.

It was in the GAPS book that talks about how she believes that this " bad guy "

can not thrive if the gut is put back into symbiosis (balance). Yet does not say

in detail how this happens she just says that the SCDiet can do this.

I have also read in this book that it was the antibiotics that caused this

clostridia imbalance in the first place (of course their are many types of

antibiotics though). That when antibiotics are given frequently that this

kills the good guys that usually keep the " bad guys " in check...causing

clostridia overgrowth and candida overgrowth. I do realize that this is not

Elaine though. I look forward to researching this. Since I am a ELAINE

" Google scholar " lol!!!

Thank you for keeping us straight. I do not want to say anything that will

harm others. I am being careful these days. I do not know all lol! God has

made sure that I have learned this message in the last two years. lol! He gave

me a CELIAC FAMILY and a autistic daughter. Keeps anyone open to new

knowledge....but trying to interpret what is right or wrong....a true job for

any parent of an autistic! So far Elaine's ways have worked I would trust her

before anybody else.

Antoinette

[Guest guest]

Anyone is susceptible to numerous infections when the intestinal flora is

altered and destroyed, such as after antibiotic use. The very foods we eat, can

have bacteria, yeasts and parasites, the very air we breathe can have molds that

can colonize as yeasts, the very tap water and other sources we drink can have

clostridia and other organisms. After antibiotic therapy, the intestine is wide

open to recolonization, whether good or bad in our opinion.

Summer

Bunce wrote:

Patti wrote: Elaine definitely did say that SCD can't get rid of

clostridia.... that it would require the proper antibiotics. There are probably

quite a few posts over on the Lyris list about clostridia, with comments from

Elaine.

It was in the GAPS book that talks about how she believes that this " bad guy "

can not thrive if the gut is put back into symbiosis (balance). Yet does not say

in detail how this happens she just says that the SCDiet can do this.

I have also read in this book that it was the antibiotics that caused this

clostridia imbalance in the first place (of course their are many types of

antibiotics though). That when antibiotics are given frequently that this

kills the good guys that usually keep the " bad guys " in check...causing

clostridia overgrowth and candida overgrowth. I do realize that this is not

Elaine though. I look forward to researching this. Since I am a ELAINE

" Google scholar " lol!!!

Thank you for keeping us straight. I do not want to say anything that will harm

others. I am being careful these days. I do not know all lol! God has made

sure that I have learned this message in the last two years. lol! He gave me a

CELIAC FAMILY and a autistic daughter. Keeps anyone open to new

knowledge....but trying to interpret what is right or wrong....a true job for

any parent of an autistic! So far Elaine's ways have worked I would trust her

before anybody else.

Antoinette

Summer's Family, SCD 08/04 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/openblooms/

---------------------------------

Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo!

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[Guest guest]

It is impossible to have a " clean " gut. A matter a fact if this was to happen

we would be come very very sick and the human species would have vanished if we

had a " sterile " gut. It is impossible to not have " some " bad guys in the gut.

The Bad guys are everywhere in our environment...and should not be feared, if we

are eating the way nature intended. Elaine said that this SCDiet mimics the

original diet of man kind. This is also one reasons to why SCD alone works so

well. We have only been eating grain, high starchy foods and refined sugar for

..5% of the time mankind has been on this earth. The rest of the time we have

been eating more " paleo " or SCD like!

What SCD does is it puts things in check, so that the good guys can now keep the

bad guys in order. This is why SCD works so well. After antibiotic treatment

or antifungal treatments it is very important to try to get the gut back into

balance with SCd. Many kids/people will easily slip back into problems and

appear to need these antibiotics and anti-fungals again, and again and again, if

this battle is not fought by implementing the BTVC book.

It has been my own personal experience with battling these " bad guys " that the

goat yogurt has been a GOD SEND in fighting this battle. It is full of so many

good guys that powder probiotics just can not compare. But we do eat bowl fulls

now, and not the advised teaspoon fulls. We built up the amount rather fast,

compared to suggestion from Pecan Bread. We pretty much did it by BTVC book.

I am not saying for others to move this fast. I am just saying what we did.

The die off was horrific, and not fun.....but much needed. My daughter was

starving in her own body, and we felt we had to move fast. It was an emergency

in our case. Our daughter was a mess. She looked like the social workers may

take her away because " we " where starving her.

After this, we did not have to use antifungals or antibiotics ever again. Much

of the strange behaviors vanished. She initially lost weight, but now gains

weight better than she has since 3 months old, when this all " failure to thrive "

started for her. Nock on wood the bad guys do not come back!

Hope this gives hope, Antoinette (SCD 2/06 entire family/celiac/asd/add/adhd

and more and healing when no other way worked)

[Guest guest]

Antoinette-

I have not read the GAPS books, but yes, you are right, it is actually

quite common knowledge in mainstream medicine that overuse of

antibiotics causes clostridia overgrowth.

had this, plus other bacteria and a nasty gut fungus as well as

yeast. Poor kid was a mess. It took 2 courses of antibiotics to finally

take care of the clostridia. We then started SCD as soon as meds were

done. I hope we are able to achieve the balance needed to prevent

reinfection.

He has had trophy poops for several days now, even with some raw fruits

and veggies. Yah!

Becky

mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

SCD 3 months

> I have also read in this book that it was the antibiotics that caused

> this clostridia imbalance in the first place (of course their are many

> types of antibiotics though). That when antibiotics are given

frequently

> that this kills the good guys that usually keep the " bad guys " in

> check...causing clostridia overgrowth and candida overgrowth. I do

> realize that this is not Elaine though. I look forward to

researching

> this. Since I am a ELAINE " Google scholar " lol!!!