Re: Staying true to SCD tm

[Guest guest]

Becky, what a fabulous, even minded answer, not something you see on

pecanbread lately

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: <pecanbread >

>Subject: Staying true to SCD tm

>Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:33:54 -0400

>

>I've been following the various posts about this concern in several

>threads. I can really see points on both 'sides' of the issue, both

>'s points and Carol's.

>

>Carol said: > I am not too busy for SCD, I'm too busy preserving it. Why

>do we need

> > other perspectives

> > on SCD when the book has been written and the research done? To change

>it,

> > authenticate

> > it further or please tell me what.

>

>I really, really understand Carol's deep commitment to preserving SCD

>and not allowing it to be 'bastardized' (my word-not hers, I apologize,

>but it fits). Elaine Gottshall is gone, and we are left with several

>people who knew her well and are keeping the torch burning. A sincere

>thank you is due to those people.

>

>I pose a question though:

>

>If in Dr. Haas' day and age, what if Elaine didn't pursue the more

>thorough research to answer the questions that were left unanswered by

>Dr Haas? Where would we be now? Elaine Gottshall expanded and researched

>her way to a more refined, better understood diet that lived on after

>Dr. Haas' original work.

>

>It would be shortsighted to ever believe that this diet is at it's end

>point. Life is a dynamic process, even if the diet is refined to the Nth

>degree, perfection, if you will, that still would not mean that further

>research, reflecting the day and age in which we live, will not be

>needed to promote the most optimal healing SCD promoted. Our environment

>is different, our food is not the same as it was 50 years ago, even 20

>years ago.

>

>I would be surprised if in the future, SCD remains a static entity,

>never to evolve with future knowledge and research not yet know in the

>time of Elaine Gottshall. I think this was the point was trying

>to make. Confusing to newbies, yes. Valid, and worth consideration by

>the vets of SCD and Elaine's daughter Judy, absolutely.

>

>

>Becky

>mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

>SCD a mere 3 months

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>

>> >If in Dr. Haas' day and age, what if Elaine didn't pursue the more

> >thorough research to answer the questions that were left unanswered by

> >Dr Haas? Where would we be now? Elaine Gottshall expanded and researched

> >her way to a more refined, better understood diet that lived on after

> >Dr. Haas' original work.

What if Ferdinand and Isabella didn't bankroll Columbus and what if my

grandparents

stayed in the old country?

If proper scientific research indicates changes and enhancements of SCD are in

order I am

sure they will be implimented, One of the problems in gaining acceptance for SCD

was a

lack of formal trial studies and dependence on anecdotal evidence. It is very

good and

strong anecdotal evidence but not always acceptable to mainstream medics.

Elaine's

foundation has research as its mission.

Everything nowadays-- especially the really toxic stuff-- gets labeled " New and

Improved. "

Sometimes it is, sometimes not.

SCD will not be improved by unscientific experimentation that could bring harm

in my

opinion. I have always said I would accept results proven by science.

Elaine was a scientist and a very good one and I doubt she would argue with

valid science.

We spent four hours discussing this with an orthomolecular PHD. who attended the

same

university at the same time as Elaine. Yet they had never met before.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

That's it Becky!...

This is not a kingdom... there is no heir apparent... Elaine evolved SCD... so

will others... it's a good thing... let's be joyful that educated professionals

and smart parents are interested. This diet and this world is very dynamic...

SCD is hardy and not static.

Thank God Pecanbread has already advanced the diet ( the concept of the

stages, nut free, egg free, casein free, etc. no saccharine)

Agape,

Becky Grant-Widen wrote:

I've been following the various posts about this concern in several

threads. I can really see points on both 'sides' of the issue, both

's points and Carol's.

Carol said: > I am not too busy for SCD, I'm too busy preserving it. Why

do we need

> other perspectives

> on SCD when the book has been written and the research done? To change

it,

> authenticate

> it further or please tell me what.

I really, really understand Carol's deep commitment to preserving SCD

and not allowing it to be 'bastardized' (my word-not hers, I apologize,

but it fits). Elaine Gottshall is gone, and we are left with several

people who knew her well and are keeping the torch burning. A sincere

thank you is due to those people.

I pose a question though:

If in Dr. Haas' day and age, what if Elaine didn't pursue the more

thorough research to answer the questions that were left unanswered by

Dr Haas? Where would we be now? Elaine Gottshall expanded and researched

her way to a more refined, better understood diet that lived on after

Dr. Haas' original work.

It would be shortsighted to ever believe that this diet is at it's end

point. Life is a dynamic process, even if the diet is refined to the Nth

degree, perfection, if you will, that still would not mean that further

research, reflecting the day and age in which we live, will not be

needed to promote the most optimal healing SCD promoted. Our environment

is different, our food is not the same as it was 50 years ago, even 20

years ago.

I would be surprised if in the future, SCD remains a static entity,

never to evolve with future knowledge and research not yet know in the

time of Elaine Gottshall. I think this was the point was trying

to make. Confusing to newbies, yes. Valid, and worth consideration by

the vets of SCD and Elaine's daughter Judy, absolutely.

Becky

mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

SCD a mere 3 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Becky, what a fabulous, even minded answer, not something you see on

> pecanbread lately

>

> ,

You have engaged my curiosity. What changes would you like to see in SCD if they

had

scientific validation. What do people have to say about it on your list? I am

not a member.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

>

> That's it Becky!...

> This is not a kingdom... there is no heir apparent... Elaine evolved SCD...

so will

others... it's a good thing... let's be joyful that educated professionals and

smart parents

are interested. This diet and this world is very dynamic... SCD is hardy and not

static.

> Thank God Pecanbread has already advanced the diet ( the concept of the

stages, nut

free, egg free, casein free, etc. no saccharine)

> Agape,

" The Stages " is not accepted SCD protocol and is a table of guidelines compiled

on parents

reports. Elaine didn't like it because it could not include every food and

people who took

The Stages left out good foods because of that. We negotiated with her to let it

stay

because many found it helpful.

But many others said it was difficult to learn all the ins and outs of SCD and

also have to

follow the stages. Even with a disclaimer that it is not a mandatory protocol,

some felt

obligated. Elaine specifies how to introduce new foods in BTVC and makes it

simple and

free of constraint.

Next, casein. This is the Big Bad Wolf in the suitcase brought over here from

GFCF.

Antoinette explained it well.

Some people are totally casein intolerant. Elaine told them to forget the dairy

as helpful as

yogurt is as nutritious as DCCC is, as delicous as SCD Cheesecake (page 130) is!

Some people have super sensitive immune systems that raise red flags and do it

inconsistently. These are types that can tolerate the gradual introduction of

dairy in small

amounts when they could not tolerate it before.the same applies to nuts and

eggs. Within

SCD one size may not fit all but outside stuff neither fits nor belongs.

No sccaharine? I have chemical snesitivities yet am able to use saccahrin

liberally. One

taste of sugar, stevia or aspartame sets me spinning except in the very

occasional diet

ginger ale. Saccharin got a clean bill of health. The thing with rats and

bladder cancer has

been dismissed as not applicable to humans. if you chooose still not to give it

to kids, I

accept that.

Eggs--I wrote an cranky email to our egg marketing board because they promoted

eggs

so vigorously. Two weeks into SCD I was poaching and scrambling away and buying

two

dozen at a time so I could have an egg each and every day.

This may not apply to others but it does for many.

As to " no heir apparent, " Elaine's daughter holds the legal and exclusive rights

to SCD.

And as to celebrating the changes Mimi allegedly made to the diet it was with

much

consulation and Elaine's approval that it was done.

, i think you have a few mistaken ideas about the diet and about

Pecanbread and it

serves neither well to continue insisting on things that may not be so.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

>

> And that is exactly what I'm agreeing with. That's all from me, Happy

> Memorial Day

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: pecanbread

> >To: <pecanbread >

> >Subject: RE: Re: Staying true to SCD tm

> >Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 20:56:09 -0400

> >

> >I was not suggesting through my post that SCD change for the sake of

> >changing with shoddy science or no science at all. Quite frankly, I

> >don't have anything in particular that 'I' think needs changing with

> >SCD.

> >

> >My entire point which seems to be missed is that it is foolish to

> >believe that one person had all the answers to solving these puzzles.

> >BTVC is the best that is known at this point in time. Elaine Gottshall

> >dedicated her life to the knowledge that is here for us to benefit from.

> >If she knew every nook and cranny to be explored in the area, then she

> >could not possibly have been human. But we all knew she was and an

> >amazing one at that.

> >

> >I don't know about this other book mentioned, and whether or not it is

> >valid to BTVC or not. I just don't think it's realistic to think that

> >SCD is static. Should this be discussed someplace other than pecanbread?

> >Yes. It is very confusing to newcomers I'm sure.

> >

> >I was just trying to help others see this from both sides, not get into

> >an argument.

> >

> >

> >Becky

> >mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

> >

> > > When others try to change things, and blindly improve things, with out

> > > looking at all angles, we REPEAT HISTORY...not improve the future.

> > >

> > > This is what I see happening after reading " Management of Celiac

> >Disease "

> > > By Dr. Haas, the book Elaine used for BTVC book. It is very

> >interesting

> > > to see how they came up with the original Specific Carbohydrate Diet,

> >that

> > > worked. And to find out that in Dr. Haas's time, many of the same

> > > experimentation that DID NOT WORK then, still continues to this day.

> >When

> > > will we ever learn? History repeats it self sometimes.....when we

> >don't

> > > look back and see what others knew, and proved to be true...we slow

> > > progress not improve SCD tm.

> >

>

It's nice to know after an entire day of debate and discussion that we are

finding areas of

understanding and agreement. That's the way it should be if we want to get our

children

and ourselves well.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

" Thank God Pecanbread has already advanced the diet ( the concept of

the stages, nut free, egg free, casein free, etc. no saccharine) "

I want to comment on this.

Pecanbread.com has not CHANGED SCD. We have not recommended ANYTHING

that is against Elaine's recommendations.

We are not recommending amaranth or illegal probiotics or removing an

entire subset of foods like nuts, eggs or casein for every individual.

SCD is a diet that is flexible within the confines of the parameters.

No one has to follow a specific guideline that requires them to

consume a pre-determined meal plan.

But in order to be called SCD, the diet cannot consist of foods and/or

probiotics that Elaine specifically forbade, such as bifidus.

So, for an individual with a true nut allergy, SCD would have to be a

nut-free diet. For the individual with a dairy allergy, SCD would

have to be a dairy-free diet.

BUT

This is very different from saying that pecanbread.com is recommending

a nut-free or egg-free version of SCD. For people who cannot consume

those foods, SCD can still be done. But there is no reason to exclude

them if they are not a problem.

So rather than " advancing the diet " to exclude or include things that

were not originally part of SCD, I think that pecanbread.com has

allowed people to see that SCD can be done even if certain allowable

foods have to be restricted based on an indviduals inability consume

those foods.

And in regards to the stages chart, Elaine did not feel the need for

people to follow it as a requirement. But in theory she did agree

that whole nuts and beans should be introduced much later than

something like applesauce. She did not categorize all of the foods

that are found on the chart. The categorization was done based on

people's personal experience with SCD and what was easier/harder for

those people to tolerate. It was created as a guideline to help

people get a feel for what others have found to be the easiest and

hardest to digest.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

[Guest guest]

>

> " Thank God Pecanbread has already advanced the diet ( the concept of

> the stages, nut free, egg free, casein free, etc. no saccharine) "

>

>

> I want to comment on this.

So do I. Thjere is nothing wrong with offering suggestions about easily digested

foods

based on the experience of others to help people who are unsure or lack

confidence in

choosing foods to introduce beyond the intro.

However, despite well placed disclaimers that The Stages is not part of SCD.

newcomers

continue to think it is and are inhibited and worry they are breaking yet

another rule if

they don't follow it.

I actually received an email today from a scientist who complained to Elaine

about having

that as the only objection to Pecanbread. I have ragged about this from Day One

and

finally came to the conclusion that if it helped more than it hurt, I'd stifle.

(as Archie

ordered Edith Bunker to).

But I also decided each time someone felt they went astray because they didn't,

couldn't or

wouldn't follow The Stages, I'd do my little spiel. Now to have someone think

this is a

significant advance in the science of SCD will provoke my little mantra each and

every .

time.

See page 60, BTVC (edition 10) for Elaine's tactful handling of the matter.

As long as people realize The Stages are not part of the diet as Jody stated,

I'll walk softly

an carry a big carrot curl!

Carol F.