Too much protein - high ammonia??

[Guest guest]

My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop after

yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is eating

the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is now

perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after having

been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in the am

like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are hitting a

wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

autism. SCD almost 2 months

[Guest guest]

Well, if she's eating a lot of protein.... and refusing other foods, yeah...

that could be a problem. SCD is supposed to be a balanced diet. It's important

to have the veggies and fruits in there.... she needs the carbohydrates.

Otherwise, she could actually end up in ketosis, which you don't want. You've

got to find a way to get some balance in. Can you do the sneaky pancakes or

muffins to force her to get veggies in with the meats and eggs? Or how about

fruit smoothies?

Patti

Too much protein - high ammonia??

My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop after

yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is eating

the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is now

perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after having

been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in the am

like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are hitting a

wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

autism. SCD almost 2 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Jenna;

We are having similar issues with our almost 4 yo. We've been dairy free

SCD for 4 months. Initially she had no problem eating her veggies, but now

she is refusing them and prefers meat (the last month or so she's been

refusing veg). I have to work really hard to disguise veg in her meals.

Sometimes she discovers the veg and refuses to eat. We are limiting her

fruit due to yeast issues (as recommended by her DAN doc) so it gets really

tricky to balance the protein and carb intake.

Some things she will eat reluctantly - the sneaky veg pancakes,

chicken muffins, zucchini noodles sprinkled with crumbled spinach cracker,

and ground beef with pureed veg mixed in (pureed to the consistancy of baby

food). Hopefully some of these items will be acceptable to your picky eater

too!

Kim

4 months dairy free SCD for

3.5 yo ASD, 2 yo w/beh'r & G.I issues

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Too much protein - high ammonia??

>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:06:33 -0000

>

>My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop after

>yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is eating

>the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is now

>perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after having

>been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in the am

>like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are hitting a

>wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

>autism. SCD almost 2 months

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well I have been avoiding the nuts - she got addicted to peanut

butter bread. This is the whole problem - every food creates

toxicity in her body so every food creates an overwhelming

addiction. Balance is key but she can not maintain balance because

her body is absolutely out of whack. I don't know how to get her

back in balance. She is stinking of ammonia in the am and her breath

seems stinkier too. Anyway, as I said trying to avoid nuts. I could

try meatloaf or meatball with pureed veggies but honestly how is that

going to reduce her ammonia levels - doesn't seem that high in

carbs?? She could be in ketosis for all I know. Fruit smoothies - I

can try. She likes fruit so I should be able to get more into her.

She actually is wierd about cold textures, but as I said I could try

again. We havent' done yogurt yet so what base? Watered down

juice? Do you steam the fruits and peel as per SCD? When we do the

egg we always add in fruit/veggie. Thanks for the help. Any more

input would be great.

>

> Well, if she's eating a lot of protein.... and refusing other

foods, yeah... that could be a problem. SCD is supposed to be a

balanced diet. It's important to have the veggies and fruits in

there.... she needs the carbohydrates. Otherwise, she could actually

end up in ketosis, which you don't want. You've got to find a way to

get some balance in. Can you do the sneaky pancakes or muffins to

force her to get veggies in with the meats and eggs? Or how about

fruit smoothies?

>

> Patti

> Too much protein - high ammonia??

>

>

> My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop

after

> yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is

eating

> the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is

now

> perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after

having

> been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in

the am

> like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are

hitting a

> wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

> autism. SCD almost 2 months

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read

the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read

the following websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here's the thing - before SCD she wasn't a picky eater. Ate lots of

different fruits and veggies. Did have strong carb cravings but was

very balanced. So what's the deal. Why is she becoming pickier on

this diet? It concerns me right now. Is she becoming more toxic or

working out toxicity? She, before SCD, did have times of eating less

amounts of food but the quality of her food was good - fruits,

veggies, etc. I know at times her appetite decreased but when she

ate well she ate a wide range. So what to do. I am feeling really

confused about it. Thanks. Jen

>

> Hi Jenna;

>

> We are having similar issues with our almost 4 yo. We've been

dairy free

> SCD for 4 months. Initially she had no problem eating her veggies,

but now

> she is refusing them and prefers meat (the last month or so she's

been

> refusing veg). I have to work really hard to disguise veg in her

meals.

> Sometimes she discovers the veg and refuses to eat. We are

limiting her

> fruit due to yeast issues (as recommended by her DAN doc) so it

gets really

> tricky to balance the protein and carb intake.

>

> Some things she will eat reluctantly - the sneaky veg pancakes,

> chicken muffins, zucchini noodles sprinkled with crumbled spinach

cracker,

> and ground beef with pureed veg mixed in (pureed to the consistancy

of baby

> food). Hopefully some of these items will be acceptable to your

picky eater

> too!

>

> Kim

> 4 months dairy free SCD for

> 3.5 yo ASD, 2 yo w/beh'r & G.I issues

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: pecanbread

> >To: pecanbread

> >Subject: Too much protein - high ammonia??

> >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:06:33 -0000

> >

> >My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop

after

> >yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is

eating

> >the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is now

> >perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after

having

> >been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in the

am

> >like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are hitting

a

> >wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

> >autism. SCD almost 2 months

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ya, I'm a little confused about the whole pickiness issue too. What I'm

*hoping* is happening with my daughter's vegetable refusal issue is that her

body is going through a detox phase and after this phase passes she will be

more tolerant to her vegetables.

I've read that certain bacteria that reside in the mouth (if in a state of

overgrowth) can make foods like vegetables really unpalatable. Don't know,

lots of different theories as to what could be happening.

I'm just going to keep plugging along and hopefully this phase will pass

QUICKLY. Try some of the veg/fruit sneak ideas to get some carbs into her -

that way you won't have to worry about ketosis. I think your daughter is

working out some toxins.

Think of it this way... if you discontinue with SCD what will you feed her?

She's probably eating a lot more healthfully on SCD than if she ate the SAD

or even GFCF. I know it's frustrating, but hang in there! I'm keeping the

faith that our daughters will heal and someday willingly eat a balanced

diet...

Kim

4 months dairy free SCD

3.5 yo ASD, 2 yo w/beh'r & G.I issues

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:35:31 -0000

>

>Here's the thing - before SCD she wasn't a picky eater. Ate lots of

>different fruits and veggies. Did have strong carb cravings but was

>very balanced. So what's the deal. Why is she becoming pickier on

>this diet? It concerns me right now. Is she becoming more toxic or

>working out toxicity? She, before SCD, did have times of eating less

>amounts of food but the quality of her food was good - fruits,

>veggies, etc. I know at times her appetite decreased but when she

>ate well she ate a wide range. So what to do. I am feeling really

>confused about it. Thanks. Jen

> >

> > Hi Jenna;

> >

> > We are having similar issues with our almost 4 yo. We've been

>dairy free

> > SCD for 4 months. Initially she had no problem eating her veggies,

>but now

> > she is refusing them and prefers meat (the last month or so she's

>been

> > refusing veg). I have to work really hard to disguise veg in her

>meals.

> > Sometimes she discovers the veg and refuses to eat. We are

>limiting her

> > fruit due to yeast issues (as recommended by her DAN doc) so it

>gets really

> > tricky to balance the protein and carb intake.

> >

> > Some things she will eat reluctantly - the sneaky veg pancakes,

>

> > chicken muffins, zucchini noodles sprinkled with crumbled spinach

>cracker,

> > and ground beef with pureed veg mixed in (pureed to the consistancy

>of baby

> > food). Hopefully some of these items will be acceptable to your

>picky eater

> > too!

> >

> > Kim

> > 4 months dairy free SCD for

> > 3.5 yo ASD, 2 yo w/beh'r & G.I issues

> >

> >

> > >

> > >Reply-To: pecanbread

> > >To: pecanbread

> > >Subject: Too much protein - high ammonia??

> > >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:06:33 -0000

> > >

> > >My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop

>after

> > >yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is

>eating

> > >the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is now

> > >perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after

>having

> > >been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in the

>am

> > >like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are hitting

>a

> > >wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old, dx

> > >autism. SCD almost 2 months

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jen,

Homemade coconut milk makes a good smoothie base. I would usually suggest

steaming the fruit... obviously you don't have to steam ripe banana if you're

using that... then freezing the fruit chunks and adding them to the blender with

the coconut milk. If she doesn't like cold stuff, you don't need to freeze

first. Nuts wouldn't add much carbs... so I wouldn't worry about that... but gee

whiz, you've got to find ways to get more veggies and fruits in.

Stinky breath *could* be from die-off... especially makes me think that b/c you

said she woke up cranky today. Are you supplementing with acidophilus, since

you're not using yogurt??

Seems like if you are still seeing self-limiting and " addiction " issues with

food, you've still got a lot of gut healing that needs to happen. I'm wondering

if you might want to try some behavioral intervention type tricks and use them

to do sort of a rotation schedule... not b/c I necessarily think a rotation diet

is needed for most people on SCD.... but in her case, just to get her to accept

more variety.

I'm thinking... maybe some sort of chart where you would show her the foods she

could choose from for that day? Something colorful and fun... and giving her

*some* choice. Then, rewards... stickers or something.... for compliance? I

know... I know... this might not work for her. Just a thought. I hate to see

power struggles going on over food... and everyone stressing out. That just sets

her up for potential eating disorders later. Lemme know if any of this makes

sense.

Patti

Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

Well I have been avoiding the nuts - she got addicted to peanut

butter bread. This is the whole problem - every food creates

toxicity in her body so every food creates an overwhelming

addiction. Balance is key but she can not maintain balance because

her body is absolutely out of whack. I don't know how to get her

back in balance. She is stinking of ammonia in the am and her breath

seems stinkier too. Anyway, as I said trying to avoid nuts. I could

try meatloaf or meatball with pureed veggies but honestly how is that

going to reduce her ammonia levels - doesn't seem that high in

carbs?? She could be in ketosis for all I know. Fruit smoothies - I

can try. She likes fruit so I should be able to get more into her.

She actually is wierd about cold textures, but as I said I could try

again. We havent' done yogurt yet so what base? Watered down

juice? Do you steam the fruits and peel as per SCD? When we do the

egg we always add in fruit/veggie. Thanks for the help. Any more

input would be great.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kim - I know you are right, it has just been really hard...

She made a lot of progress when the yeast died off, but then that

damned bacteria increased and caused some negative effects (biting

behaviors, etc), now the whole ammonia thing... it is so hard to

watch the toxins dominate her whole life. SUCKS! This is a vent

sorry! I am hoping that you are right that it is just some toxins

working their way out. I did just read that Vit C may help with

ammonia -so I will do that. And I will cut back on protein and

introduce more veggie/fruits in whatever way. Even if that means

more yeast - ugh - the viscious cycle continues...Good luck. Let's

keep in touch so we can encourage each other and compare notes.

Jen

> > >

> > > Hi Jenna;

> > >

> > > We are having similar issues with our almost 4 yo. We've been

> >dairy free

> > > SCD for 4 months. Initially she had no problem eating her

veggies,

> >but now

> > > she is refusing them and prefers meat (the last month or so

she's

> >been

> > > refusing veg). I have to work really hard to disguise veg in

her

> >meals.

> > > Sometimes she discovers the veg and refuses to eat. We are

> >limiting her

> > > fruit due to yeast issues (as recommended by her DAN doc) so it

> >gets really

> > > tricky to balance the protein and carb intake.

> > >

> > > Some things she will eat reluctantly - the sneaky veg pancakes,

> >

> > > chicken muffins, zucchini noodles sprinkled with crumbled

spinach

> >cracker,

> > > and ground beef with pureed veg mixed in (pureed to the

consistancy

> >of baby

> > > food). Hopefully some of these items will be acceptable to your

> >picky eater

> > > too!

> > >

> > > Kim

> > > 4 months dairy free SCD for

> > > 3.5 yo ASD, 2 yo w/beh'r & G.I issues

> > >

> > >

> > > >From: " jennaleeck " <superkempusa@>

> > > >Reply-To: pecanbread

> > > >To: pecanbread

> > > >Subject: Too much protein - high ammonia??

> > > >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:06:33 -0000

> > > >

> > > >My daughter now has issues with protein. Has seemed to develop

> >after

> > > >yeast has died down. Perhaps, bacteria has increased. She is

> >eating

> > > >the protein well and refusing someother foods so perhaps it is

now

> > > >perpetuating some toxic thing. Very upset this morning, after

> >having

> > > >been in great moods upon waking for sometime. Urine smells in

the

> >am

> > > >like ammonia. What have people done to help this. We are

hitting

> >a

> > > >wall. Need help fast!! Jen, mom to Evie almost 4 years old,

dx

> > > >autism. SCD almost 2 months

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Great suggestions! What is the coconut milk digestibility

like? Does it really have to be homemade? I've seen canned and

unsweetened (just asking...). How is it made homemade? Or point me

to the right direction to find out. I had to bring my BTVC book back

to the library -I've told too many people about it lately! HA! What

portions do you recommend for kids with this ammonia thing. Should I

do 1 protein, 2 fruits, 1 veggie kind of thing per meal? How do I

reduce that ammonia through the diet? I've been very discouraged

that she stopped eating veggies. She was such a good little veggie

girl (though raw). I should be able to get her back onto fruit. I

steamed a ton today before I went to work and hope the sitter served

them all! She is just so fickle about them, when before she seemed

quite eager about fruit and seemed to enjoy it. I will print this

out for reference. Nice suggestions! Jen Also what nut flour is best

for digestibility - is it pecan? What about nut butter?

Thanks!

>

> Jen,

>

> Homemade coconut milk makes a good smoothie base. I would usually

suggest steaming the fruit... obviously you don't have to steam ripe

banana if you're using that... then freezing the fruit chunks and

adding them to the blender with the coconut milk. If she doesn't like

cold stuff, you don't need to freeze first. Nuts wouldn't add much

carbs... so I wouldn't worry about that... but gee whiz, you've got

to find ways to get more veggies and fruits in.

>

> Stinky breath *could* be from die-off... especially makes me think

that b/c you said she woke up cranky today. Are you supplementing

with acidophilus, since you're not using yogurt??

>

> Seems like if you are still seeing self-limiting and " addiction "

issues with food, you've still got a lot of gut healing that needs to

happen. I'm wondering if you might want to try some behavioral

intervention type tricks and use them to do sort of a rotation

schedule... not b/c I necessarily think a rotation diet is needed for

most people on SCD.... but in her case, just to get her to accept

more variety.

>

> I'm thinking... maybe some sort of chart where you would show her

the foods she could choose from for that day? Something colorful and

fun... and giving her *some* choice. Then, rewards... stickers or

something.... for compliance? I know... I know... this might not

work for her. Just a thought. I hate to see power struggles going on

over food... and everyone stressing out. That just sets her up for

potential eating disorders later. Lemme know if any of this makes

sense.

>

> Patti

> Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

>

>

> Well I have been avoiding the nuts - she got addicted to peanut

> butter bread. This is the whole problem - every food creates

> toxicity in her body so every food creates an overwhelming

> addiction. Balance is key but she can not maintain balance

because

> her body is absolutely out of whack. I don't know how to get her

> back in balance. She is stinking of ammonia in the am and her

breath

> seems stinkier too. Anyway, as I said trying to avoid nuts. I

could

> try meatloaf or meatball with pureed veggies but honestly how is

that

> going to reduce her ammonia levels - doesn't seem that high in

> carbs?? She could be in ketosis for all I know. Fruit

smoothies - I

> can try. She likes fruit so I should be able to get more into

her.

> She actually is wierd about cold textures, but as I said I could

try

> again. We havent' done yogurt yet so what base? Watered down

> juice? Do you steam the fruits and peel as per SCD? When we do

the

> egg we always add in fruit/veggie. Thanks for the help. Any

more

> input would be great.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jen,

I have been reading this entire thing on your daughter. If I was you,

I would go to a metabolic specialist ASAP. Just to make certain that

there isn't something else going on here that you need to know. This

was also recomended to us, when our daughter seemed to be getting " too

much protein " . There are several metabolic disorders that cause high

amonia levels. Since her " body is out of whack " , it may be important

to know how it is " out of whack " , so that you don't do something that

could harm her health. Some kids with metabolic conditions have to

eat even more restricted than SCDiet. We where lucky. Our doctor

said that our little girl was " normal " metabolicly speaking. For us

it was something that was corrected by just teaching her to eat more

fruits, vegetables and adding more SCD allowed foods and less

protiens. We where told by our doctor that anything over 40% protien

is too much.

Sincerely, Antoinette (celiac) Kiki-2 (celiac ASD) SCD 2/06

[Guest guest]

<<What is the coconut milk digestibility

like? Does it really have to be homemade? I've seen canned and

unsweetened (just asking...). How is it made homemade?>>

Yes, it has to be homemade. It's not hard... recipe is on www.pecanbread.com in

the " Recipes " section... scroll down to where the recipes for nut milks are. You

use plain dried coconut. Canned coconut milk almost undoubtedly has some sort of

thickener added.

<<I had to bring my BTVC book back

to the library -I've told too many people about it lately! HA!>>

Oh... you GOTTA buy yourself a copy!

<<What portions do you recommend for kids with this ammonia thing. >>

I honestly don't know how to advise you on that. You could do what lots of other

parents here do.... go to www.fitday.com and set up and account. You can enter

your child's stats and find out exactly how many calories and grams of protein

and carbs they ought to be eating to have a balanced diet. This is not an SCD

site... just a general nutrition site. I have not used fitday myself... but I

seem to remember that depending on the child's age, you may have to fudge

something to get it to accept the data?? I can't remember what it is, though....

somebody?? Help?? Jody?

<<Should I do 1 protein, 2 fruits, 1 veggie kind of thing per meal?>>

Like I said... I don't exactly know... I mean, I think it's more of a

proportional thing. For example, I give my daughter a portion of veggies that is

two to three times the size of the portion of meat she gets for dinner. I think

that's a little more typical.

<<How do I reduce that ammonia through the diet?>>

Well... I think you just already knew that she was eating lots of meat... and

not much else. Right? So... there's the reason, and the solution is to normalize

that a bit more.

Many kids don't like cooked fruits and veggies based on a texture preference

issue. You might be able to get her to eat cooked fruit... if you do something

like steam apple slices till fairly soft, then lay them on a tray lined with

waxed paper and freeze them. Then see if she'll accept them frozen... like

little popsicles. Some kids just like the crunch thing.

Or... you can flat out make popsicles out of all kinds of different fruit (and

even veggie) purees...oh, but I can't remember if it was you that said your

child doesn't like cold things, maybe it was. Well, anyway, you'd be surprised

how easily you can hide a little bit of pureed squash (for example) in with

banana, applesauce, pureed cooked peaches..... whir it all up like you would for

a smoothie and then freeze it in a popsicle mold.

Some kids will go for fruit/veggie leather.... which is a little more work and

requires a dehydrator... but you can do creative puree combos.... pour them out

on plastic wrap in a dehydrator tray and in a few short hours have yummy leather

that can be rolled, cut into strips, or into stars, hearts or whatever shape it

takes to get her to eat them!

<<Also what nut flour is best

for digestibility - is it pecan? What about nut butter? >>

Yes, pecans are generally tolerated best by newbies.... hazelnut might run a

close second. You may have to make your own in a food processer.

Nut butters are tolerated before flours... b/c the particles are more finely

ground. If you can't find plain hazelnut, pecan (or macadamia is another good

one) butter at the natural food store, you can make your own. Just process the

nuts till very fine... add a little bit of vegetable oil until you get a smooth

butter-like texture.

Patti

[Guest guest]

She had a metabolic screening when she was almost 2, it didn't pick

anything up from what I recall. Would there be further testing to

do? I have been thinking about consulting with a specialist in

Cleveland because she tends to have low energy/increased fatigue.

There is a long wait though. I don't know if our local children's

hospital would do anything for her. This is all so intense!!

AAAHHH! Thanks for the input! I do appreciate it. Jen

>

> Dear Jen,

>

> I have been reading this entire thing on your daughter. If I was

you,

> I would go to a metabolic specialist ASAP. Just to make certain

that

> there isn't something else going on here that you need to know.

This

> was also recomended to us, when our daughter seemed to be

getting " too

> much protein " . There are several metabolic disorders that cause

high

> amonia levels. Since her " body is out of whack " , it may be

important

> to know how it is " out of whack " , so that you don't do something

that

> could harm her health. Some kids with metabolic conditions have

to

> eat even more restricted than SCDiet. We where lucky. Our doctor

> said that our little girl was " normal " metabolicly speaking. For

us

> it was something that was corrected by just teaching her to eat

more

> fruits, vegetables and adding more SCD allowed foods and less

> protiens. We where told by our doctor that anything over 40%

protien

> is too much.

>

> Sincerely, Antoinette (celiac) Kiki-2 (celiac ASD) SCD 2/06

>

[Guest guest]

Jen,

If nothing was found in a metabolic screening, they won't do any further

invasive testing. Been there.

I just think you have a very simple problem there... too much protein. Not

enough carbs. It's hard for their little bodies... the liver, the kidneys... to

deal with that much. On top of that, she may be detoxing who-knows-what kind of

toxins from dying bacteria.

Just get some good carbs into her and don't worry.

All your ped might do is run some bloodwork... and if it showed high ammonia,

they might re-run it. I bet they would ask you what she's eating... and

basically tell you the same thing we have. She needs more carbs and less

protein!

Patti

[Guest guest]

Yeah.. I think you are right. This afternoon her diaper was soaked

and again had the ammonia smell and around the time she urinated she

had a major meltdown. It was as if the toxins were leaving her body

behaviorally and physically. It was one of the worst meltdowns ever

so I couldn't help but think die-off. It got me thinking about

bacteria dieing off. Her ammonia was tested before (in blood) and

was just fine. But, I was reading about high lactose and low

protein (which as a toddler she loved milk and basically nothing

else...) causing ammonia issues, even ammonia in the brain and

staring spells as a sign of this. She has always had these staring

spells. Maybe her ammonia has been high in her gut and brain, but

not blood? Maybe now it is coming out?? She has also had some real

clarity today. For the first time she expressed on her face and

verbally (though limited) the emotion of sadness (she's usually

happy or mad) - her daddy and I drove past each other in our cars

and stopped, chatted but she didn't get to talk to him and she

wanted him since she saw him. Thanks for your help. I have been

decreasing protein and increasing fruits/veggies. Jen

>

> Jen,

>

> If nothing was found in a metabolic screening, they won't do any

further invasive testing. Been there.

>

> I just think you have a very simple problem there... too much

protein. Not enough carbs. It's hard for their little bodies... the

liver, the kidneys... to deal with that much. On top of that, she

may be detoxing who-knows-what kind of toxins from dying bacteria.

>

> Just get some good carbs into her and don't worry.

>

> All your ped might do is run some bloodwork... and if it showed

high ammonia, they might re-run it. I bet they would ask you what

she's eating... and basically tell you the same thing we have. She

needs more carbs and less protein!

>

>

> Patti

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried epsom salts baths to help her with die-off?

Might be helpful.

Patti

Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

Yeah.. I think you are right. This afternoon her diaper was soaked

and again had the ammonia smell and around the time she urinated she

had a major meltdown. It was as if the toxins were leaving her body

behaviorally and physically. It was one of the worst meltdowns ever

so I couldn't help but think die-off. It got me thinking about

bacteria dieing off. Her ammonia was tested before (in blood) and

was just fine. But, I was reading about high lactose and low

protein (which as a toddler she loved milk and basically nothing

else...) causing ammonia issues, even ammonia in the brain and

staring spells as a sign of this. She has always had these staring

spells. Maybe her ammonia has been high in her gut and brain, but

not blood? Maybe now it is coming out?? She has also had some real

clarity today. For the first time she expressed on her face and

verbally (though limited) the emotion of sadness (she's usually

happy or mad) - her daddy and I drove past each other in our cars

and stopped, chatted but she didn't get to talk to him and she

wanted him since she saw him. Thanks for your help. I have been

decreasing protein and increasing fruits/veggies. Jen --- In

[Guest guest]

--When we first started diet my kids had this to. But it went away.

We did not do any testing I just thought it was common with die off

and your body changing to with the new foods.

- In pecanbread , " Patti " wrote:

>

> Have you tried epsom salts baths to help her with die-off?

>

> Might be helpful.

>

>

>

> Patti

> Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

>

>

> Yeah.. I think you are right. This afternoon her diaper was

soaked

> and again had the ammonia smell and around the time she urinated

she

> had a major meltdown. It was as if the toxins were leaving her

body

> behaviorally and physically. It was one of the worst meltdowns

ever

> so I couldn't help but think die-off. It got me thinking about

> bacteria dieing off. Her ammonia was tested before (in blood)

and

> was just fine. But, I was reading about high lactose and low

> protein (which as a toddler she loved milk and basically nothing

> else...) causing ammonia issues, even ammonia in the brain and

> staring spells as a sign of this. She has always had these

staring

> spells. Maybe her ammonia has been high in her gut and brain,

but

> not blood? Maybe now it is coming out?? She has also had some

real

> clarity today. For the first time she expressed on her face and

> verbally (though limited) the emotion of sadness (she's usually

> happy or mad) - her daddy and I drove past each other in our cars

> and stopped, chatted but she didn't get to talk to him and she

> wanted him since she saw him. Thanks for your help. I have

been

> decreasing protein and increasing fruits/veggies. Jen --- In

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much this is very encouraging! Jen

> >

> > Have you tried epsom salts baths to help her with die-off?

> >

> > Might be helpful.

> >

> >

> >

> > Patti

> > Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

> >

> >

> > Yeah.. I think you are right. This afternoon her diaper was

> soaked

> > and again had the ammonia smell and around the time she

urinated

> she

> > had a major meltdown. It was as if the toxins were leaving her

> body

> > behaviorally and physically. It was one of the worst meltdowns

> ever

> > so I couldn't help but think die-off. It got me thinking about

> > bacteria dieing off. Her ammonia was tested before (in blood)

> and

> > was just fine. But, I was reading about high lactose and low

> > protein (which as a toddler she loved milk and basically

nothing

> > else...) causing ammonia issues, even ammonia in the brain and

> > staring spells as a sign of this. She has always had these

> staring

> > spells. Maybe her ammonia has been high in her gut and brain,

> but

> > not blood? Maybe now it is coming out?? She has also had some

> real

> > clarity today. For the first time she expressed on her face

and

> > verbally (though limited) the emotion of sadness (she's usually

> > happy or mad) - her daddy and I drove past each other in our

cars

> > and stopped, chatted but she didn't get to talk to him and she

> > wanted him since she saw him. Thanks for your help. I have

> been

> > decreasing protein and increasing fruits/veggies. Jen --- In

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes -we try to do this everyother day during her bath. I think it is

imperitive for her since her sulphation pathways seem way off (phenol-

sulphur tolrance issues). Jen

>

> Have you tried epsom salts baths to help her with die-off?

>

> Might be helpful.

>

>

>

> Patti

> Re: Too much protein - high ammonia??

>

>

> Yeah.. I think you are right. This afternoon her diaper was

soaked

> and again had the ammonia smell and around the time she urinated

she

> had a major meltdown. It was as if the toxins were leaving her

body

> behaviorally and physically. It was one of the worst meltdowns

ever

> so I couldn't help but think die-off. It got me thinking about

> bacteria dieing off. Her ammonia was tested before (in blood)

and

> was just fine. But, I was reading about high lactose and low

> protein (which as a toddler she loved milk and basically nothing

> else...) causing ammonia issues, even ammonia in the brain and

> staring spells as a sign of this. She has always had these

staring

> spells. Maybe her ammonia has been high in her gut and brain,

but

> not blood? Maybe now it is coming out?? She has also had some

real

> clarity today. For the first time she expressed on her face and

> verbally (though limited) the emotion of sadness (she's usually

> happy or mad) - her daddy and I drove past each other in our cars

> and stopped, chatted but she didn't get to talk to him and she

> wanted him since she saw him. Thanks for your help. I have

been

> decreasing protein and increasing fruits/veggies. Jen --- In

>

>

>