Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. Thank you for any answers and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm sorry your are facing so many problems. Someone correct me if am wrong but asimming that develoment and progress are in the normal state plagio is simply a cosmetic thing snd won't affect anything behaviorally, just esthetics. It sounds like after all your tests the consensus is that developmentally all is ok (asiming there is macrocephaly) so I am puzzelld on why you would need surgery when a band would work for the shape aspect. From: "mattpieczynski" Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:37:27 -0000<Plagiocephaly >Subject: New here and have lots of questions Hello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. Thank you for any answers and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm sorry about the typeos. I meant to say assuming there is NO macrocephaly. Sorry.From: "mattpieczynski" Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:37:27 -0000<Plagiocephaly >Subject: New here and have lots of questions Hello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. Thank you for any answers and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Right I think it would be just cosmetic if there is no macrocephaly. We are just meeting with the suergon first because he is local. Then if he thinks the band would work we have to go to another state and they would want a detailed ct and since she also wants an mri we are going to see if we can do both at the same time so we only have to put him under once. > > I'm sorry about the typeos. I meant to say assuming there is NO macrocephaly. Sorry. > New here and have lots of questions > > > Hello, > > My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. > > When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? > I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. > Thank you for any answers and support. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Welcome to the group- Out of curiosity, I checked my son's head measurements as a form of comparison and he was 50 3/4 cm at one year old, so larger than your son's and it was never mentioned as a problem. At 9 months old, he was 48.5 cm, so again larger than your son's, by a lot. So is the issue for your son that his head grew so fast from 9 to 12 months? Or that his head is proportionately larger than his his height and weight (my son has been consistently greater than 90th percentile in all three: height, weight and head circumference, mostly 95th and 98th+ for head, and I remember the doctor mentioning that he was just big all over). Also, if it makes you feel any better, my son didn't crawl (on hands and knees) until he was 11 months old and didn't walk until he was 16.5 months old, so if gross motor milestones are concerning you, I wouldn't worry too much about it yet. (I've heard you shouldn't worry about non-walkers until 18+ months). In any case, hopefully the MRI will show there is no macrocephaly and it will just be an issue of correcting his plagio. First of all, surgery is really invasive and really shouldn't be an option unless there is craniosynostosis (premature fusing of the skull sutures/plates) involved (it sounds like it isn't). A helmet/band can help a lot, if not completely correct the plagio, and is much less invasive. When do you see the neuro? Assuming there are no other underlying issues, time is of the essence with regard to banding at his age. Banding over one year of age is not ideal, but is doable (it just takes longer). My son wasn't banded until he was 17 months old and we saw a lot of correction (he wore 2 bands for almost 8 months). I would not wait longer to see if things round out, many of us were told they would and they didn't, that's why I prolonged banding so long, and I would do anything to go back and do it sooner. Unfortunately, if there is macrocephaly involved, I'm not really sure how that is handled. I can't think of anyone else on the board that has had to deal with that (only a couple I can remember had it ruled out). Also, where are you located? It might be good to get some references of good helmet companies in your area, just to be prepared in case you do move in that direction, it will save you some time. Good luck! Please keep us posted. Jake-2.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08) Jordan-5 P.S. I just checked my daughter's head circumference measurements for the heck of it: at 9 months she was 47.5 and at 12 months she was 48 3/4. So maybe re: your son it is the issue of jumping 6 cm in 3 months? > > Hello, > > My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. > > When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? > I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. > Thank you for any answers and support. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Devastating is putting it lightly isn't it? I'm sorry you have to go through this but you'll find plenty of support here!  Why would they be considering surgery when banding can still be effective? I'd take a list of questions like this with me to ask the doctors.  Did they give you any of his measurements so you can better understand the degree of plago and/or brachey he may have?  As for plagio and brachey being purely cosmetic, most here disagree. If the plagio is bad enough to cause facial asymmetry (generally when you're talking banding that's a yes) there are other complications that can develop. ENT issues from misshapen sinus cavities, issues stemming from jaw misalignment like TMJ, sight issues and so on. There's not a lot in the way of studies done on the subject, but there are a few good ones out there that show a correlation. Check the files section here as most are posted there. Then there's the more cosmetic reasons like fitting glasses and bike helmets.  I hope the tests rule out macrocephaly all together for you!  Elaine (twin A) tort & plagio, 9mos old, 2nd helmet since 1/5/09  On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 2:37 PM, mattpieczynski <mattpieczynski@...> wrote: Hello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history.When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. Thank you for any answers and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 HI - My 1st question would be - Where are you located? If there is no water then I would definatley try the banding route 1st before surgery. It's ALOT less invasive. Also, If you post what state you are in others may have experience with your location and can help you out more. Jen and Luli - 3 years old Left tort - Right Plagio - Hanger Band Grad - CA http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/jens5th/ New here and have lots of questions Hello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. Thank you for any answers and support. Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi, My daughter had a big head. She was 50th percentile at birth, but 95th by 6 mo. In her case they were worried about hydrocephaly, but it wasn't a problem. Hopefully your little one just has a big head too. As for " rounding out " on its own, it just doesn't happen in many cases. I think your ped is ignorant about this, and it doesn't indicate any problem other than plagio. Once the flat spot is there you need to direct the growth to the flat area to correct it. Also if the baby gets used to sleeping on the flat spot (especially if there is torticollis) then it will continue to get worse. If there is no fluid problem, then I think a band will help correct the headshape. Please keep us posted. -christine sydney, 3 yrs, starband grad > > Hello, > > My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. > > When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? > I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. > Thank you for any answers and support. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Actually, if he did not start crawling until 11 months, then development is not moving along normally (at least with gross motor skills). There's no way to know whether this is related to the head. I don't understand the effect of any fluid, even if it's normal with large heads. I do know that 's soft spot was already closed at 12 months and our doc was worried, but our neurosurgean said that this is normal with small heads (we had 43 cm at 15 months). So, there may not be any effect at all. I'm not sure what to advise because surgery is a route that most of us have not taken. At 13 months, it's not too late for a helmet, but I would want to get your son started on that process ASAP because the longer you wait, the less improvement you'll get. I can say that the experts say there is no developmental impact from the shape of the skull itself as long as there isn't something else going on. If the neurosurgean suspects possible fluid around the brain, that will probably need to be ruled out before you can consider a helmet. I'm so sorry that no one followed up with you sooner than they did. The same happened to us, but we didn't need to wait to rule out medical issues before proceeding. Maybe someone else will have more information and advice on which direction to take. , mom to , 18.5 months 15.5 weeks in STARband plus CST land New here and have lots of questionsHello, My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history.When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally?I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems.Thank you for any answers and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 ---well was surgery an option, my son has been in a band for 4 months and plagio looks worse than before In Plagiocephaly , " christineashok " <christineashok@...> wrote: > > Hi, > My daughter had a big head. She was 50th percentile at birth, but 95th by 6 mo. In her case they were worried about hydrocephaly, but it wasn't a problem. Hopefully your little one just has a big head too. As for " rounding out " on its own, it just doesn't happen in many cases. I think your ped is ignorant about this, and it doesn't indicate any problem other than plagio. Once the flat spot is there you need to direct the growth to the flat area to correct it. Also if the baby gets used to sleeping on the flat spot (especially if there is torticollis) then it will continue to get worse. If there is no fluid problem, then I think a band will help correct the headshape. Please keep us posted. > > -christine > sydney, 3 yrs, starband grad > > > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is . My son is 13 months old. I guess I will start off with our history. > > > > When he was about four months old he developed a flat spot and his head measured on the large side. We figured it was due to his position he would lay in. At 6 months we did xrays and figured out his sutures were fine but they saw something else. So we did a CT. They though he might have agenisis of the corpus collusm. We met with a neurologist. She measured mine and my husbands head and we both have large heads. Large head also run in my family. The CT did show some fluid but she said that was common in babies with large heads. The left side of his corpus collusum was small but she thought that was due to the flat spot on the head. So we decided to wait it out and see how his head rounded out after he was up and mobile. Now he is 13 months. He started crawling at 11 months, has not started walking. At his 9 month appt his head circumfrise was 43 cm. At his 12 month it was 49.7. So we went back to the neurologist today. She said she wants to do an mri just to make sure there is no fluid aroudnt he brain. (macrocephaly) but she also said his head should have rounded otu more then what it has. So now she is sending us to a neuro seurgon to see if surgery would be an option to help his skull or if we need to go the helmet route. The only reason we are doing a seurgon first is because he is local and we would have to travel to a different state to see a crianology team. So I guess I am confused, shocked, sad, etc about all this. It is hard to find info on the web if having a plagiocephaly has long term effects, if the helmet is the best way to go, what does the surgery intail, etc. I was just wondering if anyone here has done surgery or how their kids do with the helmet. Has anyone opted otu of not doign anything at all and running the risk of their kids head never developing normally? > > I hope I am making since right now, it is stilla ll so fresh. I was really thinking we woudl go into the doc today and she would tell us his head is looking better and it will get better over time and that he will just have a large head like us. but now it seems that we are dealing with two different problems. > > Thank you for any answers and support. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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