Re: Need to adjust diet -- too much fat

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's a lot of meat and nuts.

He's eating about as much meat in one day as my kids eat in 3-4 days.

And he's eating more nuts in one day that my kids probably eat in 3-4

weeks.

His weight is in the 75% for his height, which doesn't make him

overweight, but puts him far from being underweight.

As for how to fill him up, will he eat more veggies? I saw that you

said that they are pureed. Will he not accept them any other way?

I've seen recommendations for a 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs ratio

as well as 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbs.

But 60% fat is too much fat and he's not getting enough carbs.

I have no idea what he is eating nearly 1000 extra calories a day, but

that will put weight on him I'm pretty sure.

Has he been gaining weight?

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

[Guest guest]

Greetings;

If anything jumps out it is that massive protein intake. That is

almost 9g/kg, which is HUGE and can cause problems with hepatic

ammonia and body acidosis. There are some supplements that could

help with ammonia (probably not SCD legal so I won't discuss here)

and veggies will buffer the acids, but you might want to consider

reducing the protein first for other reasons. Case in point, several

physicians, most notably Yasko, believe that by-products of protein

catabolism (aminos in excess essentially) can cause neuroexcitation

in those with certain neurological difficulties. So, hyperactivity,

stimming, etc would be associated with that massive protein

intake. If you feel hyperactivity is the primary maladaptive

behaviour, reduction of neuroexciters is reasonable.

Carbs look good. Even with all that fructose, which is

preferentially converted to liver glycogen, that should be plenty of

glucose for the brain. The brain is the single largest organ

contributor to basal metabolic rate, coming in at around 400 kcal a

day, all of which will come from glucose if available. Even with

long term adaptation to ketosis the brain will still need at least

25% of its substrate from glucose. So, that looks fine. Note that

if carbs go lower you can negatively change the ratio of which aminos

get across the BBB, which can cause neurotransmitter imblances.

Why specifically do you feel there is too much fat? What nut are you

using for the nut butters, etc?

Regarding total calories, is he gaining weight? Gaining fat?

By the way, percentages are meaningless. Grams per kilo or pound is

a useful measure though.

My son is 8 yrs/ 2 mos., 50 inches tall and 61 pounds.

>I calculated a typical day's food for on fitday below:

>

>Totals:

>

>Cals/Fat/Carb/Prot

>3866/260/159/246

>

>

>----------

Inphoria Corporation

- J. Townsley II

-wt@...

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your quick response. I have included my responses

below.

Mom to , 8, ASD, SCD 2+ yrs. and

twin sister , NT

>

> Wow, that's a lot of meat and nuts.

>

Yes, eats a TON. He's on the move constantly which I guess

helps him burn it up. He has put on a little weight but not as much

as I would have expected. He takes Ritalin and Risperdal. I'm told

that many kids on Risperdal gain weight while those on Ritalin lose

weight so maybe that is a contributing factor.

> He's eating about as much meat in one day as my kids eat in 3-4

days.

> And he's eating more nuts in one day that my kids probably eat in

3-4

> weeks.

We buy 10 lbs. of gr sirloin each week and grill his burgers on

Sunday, then freeze for use that week. He will also eat chicken,

pork, lamb, steak, etc. which I bring in occasionally but as you

might guess our grocery bills are pretty high with his dietary needs.

Before SCD, was addicted to cow milk and then soy milk so I

was relieved when he adapted to nut milk -- first almond, then

hazelnut, now Brazil (it's cheaper). That is the only thing he

drinks. Likewise, he was addicted to rice flour pancakes so I was

glad when he adjusted to the nut butter pancakes.

He used to love yogurt (both cow and then soy) so I suspect he would

like the goat yogurt.

>

> His weight is in the 75% for his height, which doesn't make him

> overweight, but puts him far from being underweight.

>

He has always been lean and strong and incredibly cute but he has

developed a little bit of a belly.

> As for how to fill him up, will he eat more veggies? I saw that

you

> said that they are pureed. Will he not accept them any other way?

>

He will only eat veggies that are pureed. He will eat apple sauce

independently but to get him to eat the veggies I spoon feed them.

If I mix w/ applesauce he is more likely to eat them independently

but he'll always choose meat or p'cakes first. Like the beef we make

a huge batch of applesauce once a week and freeze them. His veggies

are mostly brocolli & gr beans with occasional spinach or squash.

He eats raw cucumbers and apples but it seems to be a sensory issue.

He chews but removes the skin and creates a mountain of debris. I

salvage what's left of the apples when he's done to make ap'sauce.

If I try to give him cooked gr beans or brocolli he bites and

discards in a similar fashion.

> I've seen recommendations for a 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs

ratio

> as well as 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbs.

>

> But 60% fat is too much fat and he's not getting enough carbs.

>

> I have no idea what he is eating nearly 1000 extra calories a day,

but

> that will put weight on him I'm pretty sure.

>

> Has he been gaining weight?

Just a little bit. Any suggestions you have would be greatly

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

i eat a lot of fat and am very trim

a bit of a belly can relate to insufficent b1

chromium gtf is a great help for metabolising fat

> >

> > Wow, that's a lot of meat and nuts.

> >

> Yes, eats a TON. He's on the move constantly which I guess

> helps him burn it up. He has put on a little weight but not as much

> as I would have expected. He takes Ritalin and Risperdal. I'm told

> that many kids on Risperdal gain weight while those on Ritalin lose

> weight so maybe that is a contributing factor.

>

>

> > He's eating about as much meat in one day as my kids eat in 3-4

> days.

> > And he's eating more nuts in one day that my kids probably eat in

> 3-4

> > weeks.

>

> We buy 10 lbs. of gr sirloin each week and grill his burgers on

> Sunday, then freeze for use that week. He will also eat chicken,

> pork, lamb, steak, etc. which I bring in occasionally but as you

> might guess our grocery bills are pretty high with his dietary

needs.

>

> Before SCD, was addicted to cow milk and then soy milk so

I

> was relieved when he adapted to nut milk -- first almond, then

> hazelnut, now Brazil (it's cheaper). That is the only thing he

> drinks. Likewise, he was addicted to rice flour pancakes so I was

> glad when he adjusted to the nut butter pancakes.

>

> He used to love yogurt (both cow and then soy) so I suspect he

would

> like the goat yogurt.

> >

>

>

> > His weight is in the 75% for his height, which doesn't make him

> > overweight, but puts him far from being underweight.

> >

> He has always been lean and strong and incredibly cute but he

has

> developed a little bit of a belly.

>

>

> > As for how to fill him up, will he eat more veggies? I saw that

> you

> > said that they are pureed. Will he not accept them any other way?

> >

> He will only eat veggies that are pureed. He will eat apple sauce

> independently but to get him to eat the veggies I spoon feed them.

> If I mix w/ applesauce he is more likely to eat them independently

> but he'll always choose meat or p'cakes first. Like the beef we

make

> a huge batch of applesauce once a week and freeze them. His veggies

> are mostly brocolli & gr beans with occasional spinach or squash.

>

> He eats raw cucumbers and apples but it seems to be a sensory

issue.

> He chews but removes the skin and creates a mountain of debris. I

> salvage what's left of the apples when he's done to make ap'sauce.

> If I try to give him cooked gr beans or brocolli he bites and

> discards in a similar fashion.

>

>

>

> > I've seen recommendations for a 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs

> ratio

> > as well as 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbs.

> >

> > But 60% fat is too much fat and he's not getting enough carbs.

> >

> > I have no idea what he is eating nearly 1000 extra calories a

day,

> but

> > that will put weight on him I'm pretty sure.

> >

> > Has he been gaining weight?

>

> Just a little bit. Any suggestions you have would be greatly

> appreciated.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your input. I've answered below.

Mom to , 8 ASD, SCD 2+ yrs.

and twin sister

>

> Why specifically do you feel there is too much fat?

Overall, I am concerned that he is not progressing. I was checking

internet sites to determine the recommended dietary intake. It

appeared to me that the fat was out of balance. I was also aware

that his protein intake was high.

> What nut are you using for the nut butters, etc?

I used to use almond butter exclusively but have started rotating

cashew and peanut butter over the last 2 months.

>

> Regarding total calories, is he gaining weight? Gaining fat?

>

He is gradually gaining weight but other than a slight belly he does

not appear overweight. He is slimmer and lighter than his twin

sister who eats a standard diet.

>

>

> My son is 8 yrs/ 2 mos., 50 inches tall and 61 pounds.

> >I calculated a typical day's food for on fitday below:

> >

> >Totals:

> >

> >Cals/Fat/Carb/Prot

> >3866/260/159/246

> >

> >

> >----------

>

> Inphoria Corporation

> - J. Townsley II

> -wt@...

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . I appreciate your input very much. I will look into

Chromium GTF and B1.

>

>

>

> i eat a lot of fat and am very trim

>

> a bit of a belly can relate to insufficent b1

>

> chromium gtf is a great help for metabolising fat

[Guest guest]

Hello;

As long as there are no signs of fat malabsorption he should be

fine. In terms of general health, the types of dietary fat consumed

are far more important than the total amount assuming no obesity is present.

In a healthy model, where there is not an overwhelming inflammation

or auto-immune issue, fat intake should be predominantly

monounsaturates with the rest split between polyunsaturates and

saturates. That assumes proper EFA intake and a reasonable ratio of

omega-6 to omega-3. Almonds are great as they are around 80%

monounsaturated fatty acids.

With hyperactivity presenting I would look to the protein intake. If

he reacts to MSG or aspartame, that means protein is a problem. It

is important to understand that any animal protein will produce

glutamate through catabolism of glutamine. There are some other

aminos implicated in these problems, as well.

You might also want to analyze the total phenol / salicylate load of

his diet.

Good luck.

At 09:29 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

>Thank you for your input. I've answered below.

>

>

>Mom to , 8 ASD, SCD 2+ yrs.

>and twin sister

>

>----------

Inphoria Corporation

- J. Townsley II

-wt@...

-

[Guest guest]

> Hello;

>

> As long as there are no signs of fat malabsorption he should be

> fine.  In terms of general health, the types of dietary fat consumed

> are far more important than the total amount assuming no obesity is

> present.

,

Just curious. Are you a health professional? Elaine stressed the

importance of " healthy " dietary fats in the diet. Because of the

obsession with weight loss diets, fat has gotten a bad name. Your

advice gives a good description of healthy fats. I use olive oil,

sunflower oil and butter aside from the fats found in other animal

proteins on SCD

>

Carol F.

Toronto, celiac, SCD 6 years

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I've seen recommendations for a 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs ratio

> as well as 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbs.

>

> But 60% fat is too much fat and he's not getting enough carbs.

>

There is an excellent free nutrition tracking program on the web where you can

monitor

these percentages, estomate the types of fats, and other nutrients and balance

meals.

www.fitday.com

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

Greetings;

Fat has definitely been unduly vilified, dietary cholesterol as well.

After all the marketing hysteria regarding dietary cholesterol in the

80s, current research indicates that every 100 milligrams of dietary

cholesterol accounts for about 1 point of circulating

cholesterol. Further, the key modulator of total cholesterol level

is total bodyfat, not dietary cholesterol intake. The type of

cholesterol though is highly correlated with the type of fat as

cholesterol is just part of the lipid delivery system. It should be

noted that a diet rich in antioxidants appears to ameliorate the

deleterious effects of dominant LDL. Genetics, of course, underlays

everything.

The fat phobia has led to extremely low fat diets which are unhealthy

and impair immune function and hormone synthesis, not to mention poor

quality of organ, skin, hair and nail tissue. As is known around

here, the short chain fatty acids have many anti-microbial

protperties. I don't think there are good minimum fat guidelines

established in the literature but something like 1g/kg is probably a

reasonable target, divided as stated previously.

What people don't want to accept is that total calories are the key

determinant of weight gain or loss, not voodoo diets.

There can be downsides to high fat diets. While carbohydrate and

protein is passed through the portal vein to the liver and dispensed

into circulation largely as determined by hepatic and pancreatic

homeostatic mechanisms, fats are actually passed through the lymph

system and only available when they reach the adipose cells where LPL

liberates them for storage or use as energy depending on the

metabolic state. So, when hypercaloric, fat tends to " go to fat " and

stay there, while carbs are free game for oxidiation or storage as

glycogen before following pathways that push glucose into

adipose. So for active athletic types, carbs can have an advantage

but the sessile or insulin resistant likely won't get that benefit.

Other confounds are that healthier fats are not particularly

toothsome to a palette conditioned to the SAD and optimal intake

requires a bit of a balancing act. The high monounsaturated sources

are basically limited to olive oil, certain nuts and seeds, avocado,

and oatmeal. Most polyunsaturated sources, excepting fish, flax,

etc, are mostly omega-6 which is very pro-inflammatory. Of course

while too little omega-3 is deleterious, too much omega-3 can reduce

inflammation to the point that the body can have difficulty mounting

an immune response. While saturated fat can create a more anabolic

environment and along with cholesterol is substrate for testosterone

synthesis it also tends to be pro-inflammatory as well as the fact

that with all its carbon bonds filled it is not particularly reactive

and can float around in the blood for an extended period of time.

Of course, diets like SCD and other diets that more closely resemble

the diet on which man evolved tend to take care of this balancing act

by default. One conundrum that seems to happen is getting caught in

the morass of replicating the old eating paradigm but with different

materials. Having said that, a legal SCD diet should have a fairly

good lipid profile as long as it does not have a preponderance of the

baked goods and frying (not attacking anyone, I have picky eaters to

deal with as well). For those with auto-immune disorders, skewing

polys towards omega-3 is probably appropriate.

I'm hungry after that rambling - I think I will go eat an avocado.

Because of the

>obsession with weight loss diets, fat has gotten a bad name. Your

>advice gives a good description of healthy fats. I use olive oil,

>sunflower oil and butter aside from the fats found in other animal

>proteins on SCD

> >

>Carol F.

>Toronto, celiac, SCD 6 years

>

>

>----------

Inphoria Corporation

- J. Townsley II

-wt@...

-

[Guest guest]

>

> Greetings;

>

> Fat has definitely been unduly vilified, dietary cholesterol as well.

>

> After all the marketing hysteria regarding dietary cholesterol in the

> 80s, current research indicates that every 100 milligrams of dietary

> cholesterol accounts for about 1 point of circulating

> cholesterol. Further, the key modulator of total cholesterol level

> is total bodyfat, not dietary cholesterol intake. The type of

> cholesterol though is highly correlated with the type of fat as

> cholesterol is just part of the lipid delivery system. It should be

> noted that a diet rich in antioxidants appears to ameliorate the

> deleterious effects of dominant LDL. Genetics, of course, underlays

> everything.

>

> The fat phobia has led to extremely low fat diets which are unhealthy

> and impair immune function and hormone synthesis, not to mention poor

> quality of organ, skin, hair and nail tissue. As is known around

> here, the short chain fatty acids have many anti-microbial

> protperties. I don't think there are good minimum fat guidelines

> established in the literature but something like 1g/kg is probably a

> reasonable target, divided as stated previously.

>

> What people don't want to accept is that total calories are the key

> determinant of weight gain or loss, not voodoo diets.

>

> There can be downsides to high fat diets. While carbohydrate and

> protein is passed through the portal vein to the liver and dispensed

> into circulation largely as determined by hepatic and pancreatic

> homeostatic mechanisms, fats are actually passed through the lymph

> system and only available when they reach the adipose cells where LPL

> liberates them for storage or use as energy depending on the

> metabolic state. So, when hypercaloric, fat tends to " go to fat " and

> stay there, while carbs are free game for oxidiation or storage as

> glycogen before following pathways that push glucose into

> adipose. So for active athletic types, carbs can have an advantage

> but the sessile or insulin resistant likely won't get that benefit.

>

> Other confounds are that healthier fats are not particularly

> toothsome to a palette conditioned to the SAD and optimal intake

> requires a bit of a balancing act. The high monounsaturated sources

> are basically limited to olive oil, certain nuts and seeds, avocado,

> and oatmeal. Most polyunsaturated sources, excepting fish, flax,

> etc, are mostly omega-6 which is very pro-inflammatory. Of course

> while too little omega-3 is deleterious, too much omega-3 can reduce

> inflammation to the point that the body can have difficulty mounting

> an immune response. While saturated fat can create a more anabolic

> environment and along with cholesterol is substrate for testosterone

> synthesis it also tends to be pro-inflammatory as well as the fact

> that with all its carbon bonds filled it is not particularly reactive

> and can float around in the blood for an extended period of time.

>

> Of course, diets like SCD and other diets that more closely resemble

> the diet on which man evolved tend to take care of this balancing act

> by default. One conundrum that seems to happen is getting caught in

> the morass of replicating the old eating paradigm but with different

> materials. Having said that, a legal SCD diet should have a fairly

> good lipid profile as long as it does not have a preponderance of the

> baked goods and frying (not attacking anyone, I have picky eaters to

> deal with as well). For those with auto-immune disorders, skewing

> polys towards omega-3 is probably appropriate.

>

> I'm hungry after that rambling - I think I will go eat an avocado.

>

>

>

>

> Because of the

> >obsession with weight loss diets, fat has gotten a bad name. Your

> >advice gives a good description of healthy fats. I use olive oil,

> >sunflower oil and butter aside from the fats found in other animal

> >proteins on SCD

> > >

> >Carol F.

> >Toronto, celiac, SCD 6 years

> >

> >

> >----------

>

> Inphoria Corporation

> - J. Townsley II

> -wt@...

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Greetings;

>

> Fat has definitely been unduly vilified, dietary cholesterol as well.

>

> Of course, diets like SCD and other diets that more closely resemble

> the diet on which man evolved tend to take care of this balancing act

> by default. One conundrum that seems to happen is getting caught in

> the morass of replicating the old eating paradigm but with different

> materials. Having said that, a legal SCD diet should have a fairly

> good lipid profile as long as it does not have a preponderance of the

> baked goods and frying (not attacking anyone, >

>

Elaine cautions on page 64, edition 10 against excess consumption of muffins

(nut flour)

Most people arrive on Pecanbread undernourished and underweight (yours truly is

an

exception). Discussion of weight loss and obesity is not very relevant to

frantic moms with

picky eaters. These children often appear to be starving themselves when they

reject the

intro diet. It is always uplifting to hear that after a time on the diet they

increase in both

weight and height.

The nice thing about SCD for me is it showed me " what " to do right away and I

had six

years to rummage around and find " why. "

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac