Re: Off the Subject- Immunizations

October 30, 2005

I'm on the fence about immunizations, also. It's so hard to know what is

really accurate information and what is propaganda. Something I did read

recently sort of made sense though. Immunization advocates say the rate of

disease has dropped dramatically since the use of shots began...but this article

suggested that the rate of disease dropping coincided with better education and

sanitation regarding diseases in the first place. Duh, like wash your hands and

cover your mouth when you cough, stuff. We learned how to reduce the spread of

infections thus reducing them with out medication/vaccines.

It seems there is no real clear cut evidence for either side as the studies done

about the shots are generally government funded and the gov and the Rx companies

walk hand in hand. I also read that in America it is basically too late to

have a study because if a true non-biased study was done and found devistating

(accurate) results that shots are harming our kids, well our gov. and Rx

industries would have to admit they'd screwed up at the risk of billions of

dollars of law suits, etc. to cover damages to the kids that were harmed. So

who do you trust?

I agree, a shot for chicken pox is kind of over-kill. Polio was fairly wiped

out with good sanitation. This article said the polio vaccine did produce bad

results in the beginning so they split polio in to three catagories and

vaccinated accordingly to hide the evidence it produced bad results. But my Q

is do we really need a polio shot in this day and age? Is chicken pox the end

of the world? Most of us older folks here had the pox, wasn't that big of a

deal. Yet we're frightened in to getting the shots for our kids. The school

threatens us, the public threatens us - we're pegged as irresponsible freaks if

we choose not to immunize and we're bullied in to it despite our basic rights to

refuse if we choose.

I think flu shots as the norm are scarey. I've never had one myself. I don't

trust them. Influenza is a serious illness but it's not really the deadly

illness it was fifty years ago where so many people died from it. I'll take my

chances with the flu right now over the risk of these fly by night flu shots.

There's a certain amount of common sense you know - use good sanitation and

keep your body's immune system built up with good nutrition and rest. I think

people can weaken their immune system with too much germ-killing, too much

protection, too much antibiotics and anitbacterial soap, etc. The average ear

infection will clear itself up in 7 to 10 days with out antibiotics (or with

them), for example. I've had doctors prescribe antibiotics for my kid's cold,

knowing full well you cannot cure a cold with antibiotics! Germs are becoming

immune to antibiotics, so I wonder if the risk isn't there for germs to become

immune to our vaccines, too, mutating them in to diseases our bodies cannot

handle anymore. With a reasonable amount of exposure on a normal life basis, we

fight off diseases we never know we have - or if we get them they are generally

minimal. But if our body has no natural immunity built up through normal

exposure, it kicks our ass. It's like the Europeans who brought small pox

over to the American Indians who'd never been exposed before and thus had no

immunity and dropped like flies while the Europeans were largely unaffected in

comparrison.

I read the amount of germs your body recieves from an infection (say the pox

or polio for example) is only a small fraction compared to what it gets exposed

to via the vaccine and thus the shot can throw the system in to sort of a shock.

So all in all I suppose this is a long winded answer to say about all you can do

is follow your own instinct here. The information available is both biased

and confusing.

My 1st reaction is to not vaccinate - yet the fear-factor tells me to. Not just

the fear of my kids getting sick but the fear of social service people accusing

me of neglect if I don't and taking my kids from me. The whole thing is screwed

up.

s.

Off the Subject- Immunizations

I am having a really tough time deciding if I am going to continue

having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1 year shots. He has

not received the MMR yet. My concern is its (immunizations,

particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge... articles, seminars,

communication with dr.s and special needs panels, etc.. were all

leaning towards no relation between autism and immunizations.

However, when it comes to my son and many recent correlations between

the two- I am stuck.

I have read testimonies from parents stating their beliefs are that

the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism) in their small

children. I have also heard that with relation to the Chicken Pox

vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10 years which

corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last decade.

I guess I am just looking for opinions.

Any one with similar experiences to what I have expressed.

Thanks,

Stacie

October 31, 2005

Angel, Well I don't have all the answers, heck I probably hardly have any.....

I agree with the theory of vaccines, sure I think the motives are great and if

we can fight diseases that is great...I'm just not convinced vaccines on the

whole are as safe as they could be / should be. That's really my own personal

sticking point with them. My own reading suggests most studies are fairly out

of date and the findings (using more modern techniques of study) could be much

different if done today by a modern research lab that had nothing to gain either

way. With something as emotionally charged as vaccinations there is always

going to be the hysteria involved on both sides, so that's why I find it so hard

to really believe one way or the other - I think the emotionalism jades the

opinions and facts.

s.

Off the Subject- Immunizations

I am having a really tough time deciding if I am going to continue

having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1 year shots. He has

not received the MMR yet. My concern is its (immunizations,

particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge... articles, seminars,

communication with dr.s and special needs panels, etc.. were all

leaning towards no relation between autism and immunizations.

However, when it comes to my son and many recent correlations between

the two- I am stuck.

I have read testimonies from parents stating their beliefs are that

the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism) in their small

children. I have also heard that with relation to the Chicken Pox

vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10 years which

corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last decade.

I guess I am just looking for opinions.

Any one with similar experiences to what I have expressed.

Thanks,

Stacie

October 31, 2005

I have to agree with Faith. The studies they have done regarding

autism and vaccines had to do with the mercury in the vaccines. They

have eliminated the mercury from the vaccines as of 1998 (if I

remember correctly).

I am having a really tough

time deciding if I am going to continue

> having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1 year shots. He

has

> not received the MMR yet. My concern is its (immunizations,

> particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

> As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge... articles,

seminars,

> communication with dr.s and special needs panels, etc.. were all

> leaning towards no relation between autism and immunizations.

> However, when it comes to my son and many recent correlations

between

> the two- I am stuck.

> I have read testimonies from parents stating their beliefs are

that

> the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism) in their small

> children. I have also heard that with relation to the Chicken Pox

> vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10 years which

> corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last decade.

> I guess I am just looking for opinions.

> Any one with similar experiences to what I have expressed.

> Thanks,

> Stacie

>

October 31, 2005

I take a different approach to a lot of the opinions

on this recieved so far but my children receive all of

their immunizations with the exception of the flu

vaccine. I realize that I had chicken pox and don't

really remember it but I still feel that if I can

prevent my children from suffering that, then I will

certainly give it a try (I also developed shingles

when I was pregnant with my oldest which is from the

chicken pox virus and the pain of that is very fresh

in my mind). We don't really see these diseases any

more but I believe that is because we immunize against

them. There is a rising number of people in our area

that do not immunize their children and there is also

a rising number of children that are catching whooping

cough. I do not believe that there is a coincidence

here.

I guess it comes down to, as in all things, that we

all have to make the best decisions that we can as

parents for our children whatever those may be. I try

to research what I can to be able to give my children

every advantage that I can. For me, that includes

immunizations.

Jenni

--- jordybirdmum wrote:

> I am having a really tough time deciding if I am

> going to continue

> having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1

> year shots. He has

> not received the MMR yet. My concern is its

> (immunizations,

> particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

> As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge...

> articles, seminars,

> communication with dr.s and special needs panels,

> etc.. were all

> leaning towards no relation between autism and

> immunizations.

> However, when it comes to my son and many recent

> correlations between

> the two- I am stuck.

> I have read testimonies from parents stating their

> beliefs are that

> the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism)

> in their small

> children. I have also heard that with relation to

> the Chicken Pox

> vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10

> years which

> corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last

> decade.

> I guess I am just looking for opinions.

> Any one with similar experiences to what I have

> expressed.

> Thanks,

> Stacie

>

Jenni-

Mom to (10/31/01) and Kelsey (11/7/03)happy girl in DBB nights only for

left clubfoot.

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

October 31, 2005

Just FYI-

I read in the paper last week that there is a group of Amish people

in Minnesota with recently confirmed cases of polio. I can't

remember how many cases were diagnosed thus far- I think 6 or 9, and

it was between members of two different families. The article said

it was encouraging other members of that Amish community to immunize

their children.

>

> I'm on the fence about immunizations, also. It's so hard to know

what is really accurate information and what is propaganda.

Something I did read recently sort of made sense though.

Immunization advocates say the rate of disease has dropped

dramatically since the use of shots began...but this article

suggested that the rate of disease dropping coincided with better

education and sanitation regarding diseases in the first place. Duh,

like wash your hands and cover your mouth when you cough, stuff. We

learned how to reduce the spread of infections thus reducing them

with out medication/vaccines.

>

> It seems there is no real clear cut evidence for either side as

the studies done about the shots are generally government funded and

the gov and the Rx companies walk hand in hand. I also read that

in America it is basically too late to have a study because if a

true non-biased study was done and found devistating (accurate)

results that shots are harming our kids, well our gov. and Rx

industries would have to admit they'd screwed up at the risk of

billions of dollars of law suits, etc. to cover damages to the kids

that were harmed. So who do you trust?

>

> I agree, a shot for chicken pox is kind of over-kill. Polio was

fairly wiped out with good sanitation. This article said the polio

vaccine did produce bad results in the beginning so they split polio

in to three catagories and vaccinated accordingly to hide the

evidence it produced bad results. But my Q is do we really need a

polio shot in this day and age? Is chicken pox the end of the

world? Most of us older folks here had the pox, wasn't that big of

a deal. Yet we're frightened in to getting the shots for our kids.

The school threatens us, the public threatens us - we're pegged as

irresponsible freaks if we choose not to immunize and we're bullied

in to it despite our basic rights to refuse if we choose.

>

> I think flu shots as the norm are scarey. I've never had one

myself. I don't trust them. Influenza is a serious illness but

it's not really the deadly illness it was fifty years ago where so

many people died from it. I'll take my chances with the flu right

now over the risk of these fly by night flu shots.

>

> There's a certain amount of common sense you know - use good

sanitation and keep your body's immune system built up with good

nutrition and rest. I think people can weaken their immune system

with too much germ-killing, too much protection, too much

antibiotics and anitbacterial soap, etc. The average ear infection

will clear itself up in 7 to 10 days with out antibiotics (or with

them), for example. I've had doctors prescribe antibiotics for my

kid's cold, knowing full well you cannot cure a cold with

antibiotics! Germs are becoming immune to antibiotics, so I wonder

if the risk isn't there for germs to become immune to our vaccines,

too, mutating them in to diseases our bodies cannot handle anymore.

With a reasonable amount of exposure on a normal life basis, we

fight off diseases we never know we have - or if we get them they

are generally minimal. But if our body has no natural immunity built

up through normal exposure, it kicks our ass. It's like the

Europeans who brought small pox over to the American Indians who'd

never been exposed before and thus had no immunity and dropped like

flies while the Europeans were largely unaffected in comparrison.

>

> I read the amount of germs your body recieves from an infection

(say the pox or polio for example) is only a small fraction compared

to what it gets exposed to via the vaccine and thus the shot can

throw the system in to sort of a shock.

>

> So all in all I suppose this is a long winded answer to say about

all you can do is follow your own instinct here. The information

available is both biased and confusing.

>

> My 1st reaction is to not vaccinate - yet the fear-factor tells me

to. Not just the fear of my kids getting sick but the fear of

social service people accusing me of neglect if I don't and taking

my kids from me. The whole thing is screwed up.

> s.

>

> Off the Subject- Immunizations

>

> I am having a really tough time deciding if I am going to continue

> having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1 year shots. He

has

> not received the MMR yet. My concern is its (immunizations,

> particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

> As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge... articles,

seminars,

> communication with dr.s and special needs panels, etc.. were all

> leaning towards no relation between autism and immunizations.

> However, when it comes to my son and many recent correlations

between

> the two- I am stuck.

> I have read testimonies from parents stating their beliefs are

that

> the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism) in their small

> children. I have also heard that with relation to the Chicken Pox

> vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10 years which

> corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last decade.

> I guess I am just looking for opinions.

> Any one with similar experiences to what I have expressed.

> Thanks,

> Stacie

>

October 31, 2005

ee,

I somewhat agree with you about the shots, but it is not true - and has been

shown - that sanitation alone would or could eradicate many of these diseases.

First, we all know that children are not sanitary, and children are the primary

hosts of many of these diseases. Also ... think E. Coli ....

Second, polio was virtually eradicated ALL OVER THE WORLD - even in developing

countries that do not have the same sanitation standards as we do. Further,

recently there was a large - and still travelling - polio outbreak across

several countries (still going strong, getting worse) because Islamic scholars

convinced the general public that the US was using the vaccines as a way of

sterilizing people and infecting them with HIV. This was in Nigeria. People

quit allowing the vaccinations and now the outbreak has spread to at least one

country (Yemen) which was previously polio free.

http://ww3.komotv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3332979

Here is another article about an outbreak amongst Amish children in Minnesota.

It does well to describe the double-edged sword of the polio vaccine - the

strain the children were infected with originated with the OPV (which is no

longer used in the US) but which most children are immune to thanks to the

vaccines (go figure).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301733.\

html

The same can be said for the MMR and the DTaP. Do we even know what diptheria

is??

By the same token, sanitation DOES work for some things. Has there been a

cholera outbreak in the US recently?

I DO think that immunizations have gone a bit wild - why are we vaccinating

children who are not a risk for Hep B? Prevnar is more of a convenience thing

for most of the population. But, there are also tons more vaccines out there

that we dont use - that only those travelling overseas use, or that are only

given to high risk people. I do believe that these vaccines are made with only

the best of intentions.

Angel

Off the Subject- Immunizations

I am having a really tough time deciding if I am going to continue

having my son immunized. He has had up to his 1 year shots. He has

not received the MMR yet. My concern is its (immunizations,

particularly the MMR) possible relation to autism.

As a former Preschool Director, my knowledge... articles, seminars,

communication with dr.s and special needs panels, etc.. were all

leaning towards no relation between autism and immunizations.

However, when it comes to my son and many recent correlations between

the two- I am stuck.

I have read testimonies from parents stating their beliefs are that

the MMR vaccine caused autism (or forms of autism) in their small

children. I have also heard that with relation to the Chicken Pox

vaccine, as it's life on the market is about 10 years which

corresponds to the recent rise in autism in the last decade.

I guess I am just looking for opinions.

Any one with similar experiences to what I have expressed.

Thanks,

Stacie

October 31, 2005

I do agree with you about the safety and that findings may well be different if

they were re-visited. There is alot we have yet to learn, and I think some of

the vaccines pose unnecessary risks.

I am also not a die-hard vaccine person. I try to make my choices based on the

needs and risks of each child. My 4 y.o. has never had a flu vaccine, or

anything else beyond the basic required except the Chicken Pox vaccine - which

gave her the chicken pox. My 8 y.o. has asthma and a weak immune system and is

very small, has no fat stores, etc. She doesnt get a little sick ... she gets a

cold and ends up with pneumonia, she gets strep and ends up with scarlet fever.

She has had flu shots for 3 years now, as well as the Hep A shot because her

body just cannot withstand sickness. Kai falls about halfway between the two

.... I dont know if he will get that vaccine this year or not, but I am leaning

to no since he is basically healthy and has never suffered the devestating

sickness his sister has.

Anyway, my point is that I look with skepticism at anything that is going to be

given to my children and try to make my own conclusions based on the evidence.

I do not think parents who do not vaccinate their children are bad or doing

something wrong, I simply chose to go the other way :-)