Re: question about new Markell shoes

[Guest guest]

>

>That said, I am no expert here but our orthotist has said that she

>perfers to NOT order the newer model of Markell shoes and just cut

>the hole herself on the rear side (as shown on cfpics) of the shoe

>instead. I had wondered if there was a chance that the Pre-cut hole

>on the new model had contributed at all to those nasty sores that

>Isabella had. Seems to me that if a foot were to slip in the shoes at

>all, this could be an added issue.

Could you explain more why the hole may cause this? Because I'm not

exactly sure what you're seeing here that I'm not. Did you send pics

to CFPics of the hole she cuts? I didn't find them in recent posts

so if you did, could you re-send for me? I'm very interested in

seeing this because I'm not really picturing which area of the heel

you're referring to. Whatever the case, the fact that your orthotist

cuts the heels out and isn't screaming *it'll ruin the

shoe!*... she's a gem and you should absolutely share her! I say,

whatever works... works. If it's a hole in the side, for whatever

reason... go for it. I am sure she knows more than I do about this

if she's working with CF babes regularly.

I think... with that long drawn out rehash of our first few

weeks... what I was trying to convey (publicly - for everyone

following the thread) is that a hole for prevention is simply a

window. Which is what Markell has provided with the holed

shoe. Holes made to let a sore heal and stay in the shoes (avoiding

healing casts) are a different thing and should be put wherever the

sore is located when you finally have the foot completely down. I

may have forgotten to mention that we did mark where he sore was by

opening the shoe and making an impression into the

heel. See... when we did that her heel was pressed firmly into the

shoe where it should have been all along. So that's where he cut,

and what we saw was the sore nowhere near the hole's center, in fact

it was up near the top right edge (hummm... maybe there's some kind

of correlation here... her sore was slightly off to the outside just

a bit, nowhere near where Isabella's were though).

Trust me, I'm not arguing real *knowledge as fact* about anything

here because I don't know for sure much at all about the new shoes

having never seen them personally. But imagining what they are,

based on Markell's PDF and now, the pics of Isabella in her shoes

where we got a peek at the hole a bit, I see that the hole itself is

actually the heel pocket area on the other model without the

hole. I'm only guessing here when I say that I feel that the hole

was not a contributing factor in this case but I really don't think

so being that the counter in the shoe designed to press into the

upper heel area is still there and fully functional because the hole

is so low. Not having leather in the lower heel area where no

pressure sores have been reported being even near, PLUS the well

known fact that the heel in a freshly corrected foot is not even

formed well yet... I dunno... just not so sure the hole had

anything to do with it. So many of us have done exactly what her

parents did (I hate talking about them like that... we don't even

know their names! lol) and not *FORCED* the foot deeply into the shoe

before tightening. Once the bugger is in there, without that window

we don't know a darn thing. I like the hole though. I wish I could

do some more in depth work with it so I could talk about it

intelligently lol.

>I realise that the parent needs to get the foot into the shoe

>properly in the first place and this would prevent most

>sores/blisters from forming. But when you see sore's like that, you

>just want to DO something and it brought to mind our ortho's feelings

>about the new shoes and where the hole was.

yeah, now you're me and you'll think about these thing at night when

you're trying to go to sleep lol! Welcome to my world :~} We need

more help with all this so please, please don't think anything you

bring to the discussion isn't important or anything just because we

kinda got some of this figured out already. Nothing is foolproof,

and nothing can't be amended to and improved upon. Certainly this

stuff which with more parents out there like you who THINK about this

so deeply... well someday we WILL have it figured out pretty darn good!

>This hole in the rear side of the shoe really dosen't have any direct

>contact with the foot. Even the super cute fat feet are really mostly

>fat in the fore part of the foot. I would think it better to have a

>hole in an area of the shoe that would have minimal contact with the

>feet in case of any slippage etc. That's all I was trying to convey.

oh, ok I think I'm getting what you're talking about now... I see

what you're saying, yes. It wouldn't there would it? ok, well

either way I think both kinds would be effective as a window. how

far can you see inside this way? can you actually see the heel in

the back? I know that there were a couple times when I would notice

Darbi's foot coming up but I could only tell this from the little

change in the distance from the bottom of her heel to the lower edge

of the hole. I honestly don't know what the heel rising would look

like from the side. Oh, I gotta see your pics! The hole she cuts is

in the lower edge right? at the sole?

Thanks so much for offering this up ! Got my gears

turning... I would love to experiment more with these shoes and

holes... lol! Darbi's like almost 3 though! not a baby anymore :~{

Kori

> & Grace

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > >

> > > > I need to order the new Markells for Keira right away as she

>just

> > >has her

> > > > tenotomy done on Thursday. When you say cut a hole in the heel,

>I

> > >have a

> > > > hard time picturing it as there is already an opening in the

>heel

> > >of the new

> > > > shoe style. Sorry to sound so daft but I want to be able to know

> > >what I am

> > > > talking about when I see the orthotist.

> > > >

> > > > Also, we weren't sure she'd have her tenotomy last week as he

> > >thought she

> > > > may have needed one more cast so we weren't really thinking

>about

> > >ordering

> > > > the shoes. In any case, if I'd known that she'd have it done

>last

> > >week, I

> > > > would have stopped at the store that orders Markell's and have

>them

> > >measure

> > > > her foot while out of the cast. There are shoes available

>through

> > >the

> > > > hospital but they are the old style and in any case, they didn't

> > >have any

> > > > there last week to size her with.

> > > >

> > > > So, I guess we'll just have her non-clubfoot measured but I

> > >wondered if this

> > > > would be a problem. Her clubfoot is a wee bit smaller but I

>guess

> > >she'll be

> > > > wearing them on both feet not just the clubfoot and I imagine

>that

> > >in most

> > > > cases, you order one size for both feet.

> > > > Any advice would be great as I would like to order right away

>since

> > >they'll

> > > > take a week or two to arrive.

> > > >

> > > > Also, my doctor, who I've been very pleased with, is a " Ponseti-

> > >purist " and

> > > > has been recommended by Dr. Pirani, said that sometimes he

>leaves

> > >the

> > > > tenotomy cast on for only two weeks. He said that he has had

>great

> > >results

> > > > and no concerns about it but he knows that Ponseti says three

>weeks

> > >and it

> > > > is our choice. Any ideas about this? Perhaps it is better to

>leave

> > >it on

> > > > three weeks. My husband figures we should just go with the two

> > >weeks as he

> > > > suggested.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks very much for any feedback you might have.

> > > >

> > > > Have a great weekend!

> > > >

> > > > Halley

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The new Markell shoes

> > > >

> > > > Hey all,

> > > >

> > > > I was thinking of sending an email to Jay regarding his new

> > >shoes...I

> > > > think that having a hole cut in the heel's of the shoes is a

>great

> > > > great idea. Our orthotist (who has a rcf also) has been doing

>this

> > >for

> > > > a couple of years now. I actually didn't even realise that they

> > >didn't

> > > > come that way. But she cuts the hole in the rear inside of the

> > >shoe,

> > > > it's right where the heel comes down but not where the heel

>would

> > >have

> > > > any chance of rubbing.

> > > >

> > > > She says that she cuts the hole's there so that there wouldn't

>be

> > >any

> > > > chance of the heel rubbing the outside edges of the hole and

> > >causing

> > > > blisters or sores hmmmmm. Makes me really wonder if this is what

> > > > happened with Isabella's poor heels.

> > > >

> > > > Would like to get some feedback from you all though before I

>send

> > >the

> > > > email.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > & Grace

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

and Kori,

I'd like to chime in on this again, I just have lots of jumbled ideas

about the holes and the shoes etc.

Let's see, first, , I saw the holes your orthotist puts in the

shoes, have you ever posted these before? I swear I've seen this

before because that's what gave me the idea -- this is exactly what I

did for Sammy's original Markells (only I used a drill instead of a

punch).

The heel rubbing on the edge of the big hole is the exact reason that

Dr. Dobbs said that he didn't like the hole in the heel of the 1645

Markells.

I think the hole in the heel is often mistaken for a sore prevention

hole, but in reality it can really only serve as a window so that

parents can see if the heel is down. Sammy's sores were much higher

up, it has to do with the heel rubbing and/or being compressed on the

heel counter or plastizode more so than anything.

Here's what I am wondering - Kori, in the P/M's the foot actually sits

inside the rubbery part - is this the part that is more " molded " , i.e.

taken from the foam imprints? Except for the problem you had with the

heel counter, the P/M's are usually pretty much sore free, right?

Also, Dobbs' AFO's uses a soft plastic insert that is molded to the

shape of the baby's foot, these too have been virtually sore free.

What if there was a soft plastic/rubbery material that could be molded

to the shape of baby's foot and inserted in the Markell's - it would

stick up above the edge of the shoe, maybe about 1/2 inch I think -

esp. for this first pair when their foot is just fresh out of casts?

They probably wouldn't even need it as they got older and their foot

gets bigger, more solid, etc. But you would put it on the foot first

similarly to the Dobbs' brace and then put the foot into the Markell

shoe, you might need a size bigger shoe, and obviously you would still

need to be sure the heel was down...small holes in shoe like

has and even holes in the rubber insert as in the P/M's...

Okay, enough rambling, do you think this would do any good? Would it

work? What are your thoughts?

>

> Whatever the case, the fact that your orthotist

> > cuts the heels out and isn't screaming *it'll ruin the

> > shoe!*... she's a gem and you should absolutely share her! I say,

> > whatever works... works. If it's a hole in the side, for whatever

> > reason... go for it. I am sure she knows more than I do about this

> > if she's working with CF babes regularly.

>

>

>

> Yes she is great (has a rcf as well, I think that this makes it a

> passion for her), she has worked closely with Dr. Pirani with his cf

> babies for a number of years. We are very lucky to have her!

>

> I

> > may have forgotten to mention that we did mark where he sore was by

> > opening the shoe and making an impression into the

> > heel. See... when we did that her heel was pressed firmly into

> the

> > shoe where it should have been all along. So that's where he cut,

> > and what we saw was the sore nowhere near the hole's center, in

> fact

> > it was up near the top right edge (hummm... maybe there's some kind

> > of correlation here... her sore was slightly off to the outside

> just

> > a bit, nowhere near where Isabella's were though).

>

>

>

> This is what I was wondering...if the edge of the hole could cause

> any issues with the foot coming into contact with it and if it rubbed

> at all well that wouldn't be a good thing. But it isn't a good thing

> for the foot to rub anywhere in the shoe.

>

>

> >

> > Trust me, I'm not arguing real *knowledge as fact* about anything

> > here because I don't know for sure much at all about the new shoes

> > having never seen them personally. But imagining what they are,

> > based on Markell's PDF and now, the pics of Isabella in her shoes

> > where we got a peek at the hole a bit, I see that the hole itself

> is

> > actually the heel pocket area on the other model without the

> > hole. I'm only guessing here when I say that I feel that the hole

> > was not a contributing factor in this case but I really don't think

> > so being that the counter in the shoe designed to press into the

> > upper heel area is still there and fully functional because the

> hole

> > is so low. Not having leather in the lower heel area where no

> > pressure sores have been reported being even near, PLUS the well

> > known fact that the heel in a freshly corrected foot is not even

> > formed well yet... I dunno... just not so sure the hole had

> > anything to do with it. So many of us have done exactly what her

> > parents did (I hate talking about them like that... we don't even

> > know their names! lol) and not *FORCED* the foot deeply into the

> shoe

> > before tightening. Once the bugger is in there, without that

> window

> > we don't know a darn thing. I like the hole though. I wish I

> could

> > do some more in depth work with it so I could talk about it

> > intelligently lol.

>

>

> I totally agree, there needs to be a hole there so that you can see

> where the foot/heel is! When you look at the new 1645 model though,

> the hole is large and stitched. I wondered if the top stitched edge

> may cause some problems.

>

>

>

> >

> > oh, ok I think I'm getting what you're talking about now... I see

> > what you're saying, yes. It wouldn't there would it? ok, well

> > either way I think both kinds would be effective as a window. how

> > far can you see inside this way? can you actually see the heel in

> > the back? I know that there were a couple times when I would

> notice

> > Darbi's foot coming up but I could only tell this from the little

> > change in the distance from the bottom of her heel to the lower

> edge

> > of the hole. I honestly don't know what the heel rising would look

> > like from the side. Oh, I gotta see your pics! The hole she cuts

> is

> > in the lower edge right? at the sole?

>

>

>

> I will send another pic to the list. Our orthotist will be punching

> this hole for all our shoes. Parents could request this for their

> older kids too, the orthotist should have a punch right there in the

> office. I always like to see where Grace's heel is, even now.

>

> Ya know, as long as the hole in the new shoes isn't causing any

> probs, it's all good! If there are no issues, then great =) but it

> does make me wonder, that top stitched part of the hole in the

> 1645's...Something to keep an eye out for. I won't bother Jay cus

> really the hole is great if it isn't causing any problems =)

>

>

>

> > Thanks so much for offering this up ! Got my gears

> > turning... I would love to experiment more with these shoes and

> > holes... lol! Darbi's like almost 3 though! not a baby anymore :~

> {

>

>

> This group (with you leading the way!) is the reason that the 1645's

> are now available! Pat yourself on the back girl!

>

>

>

> > Kori

>

[Guest guest]

,

I think that this is just a fanatastic idea!! I would guess that

is super busy and I know that the wait for the 's can be

frustrating for parents (especially those who have had their kids in

a lot of casts - Hang in there =).

I wonder if Jay would be recptive to this? Who does the actual

impressions for Dr. Dobbs shoes? Is it him or an orthotist that he

works closely with?

Just thinking what would be the best way to go about it...if it could

be done by the orthotist, Jay could just sell a kit of some sort so

that there wouldn't be a waiting period for the impressions to be

sent off, then made, then shipped back but maybe that would be the

way it would need to be done hmmm, wonder if an orthotist would be

able to provide this service. Maybe the kit could be simplified

enough so that the parent could even do the impression and then take

to the ortho for the fitting.

Very interesting idea ! If done right, you can see how this

could help a lot of little feet!

& Grace

> >

> > Whatever the case, the fact that your orthotist

> > > cuts the heels out and isn't screaming *it'll ruin the

> > > shoe!*... she's a gem and you should absolutely share her! I

say,

> > > whatever works... works. If it's a hole in the side, for

whatever

> > > reason... go for it. I am sure she knows more than I do about

this

> > > if she's working with CF babes regularly.

> >

> >

> >

> > Yes she is great (has a rcf as well, I think that this makes it a

> > passion for her), she has worked closely with Dr. Pirani with his

cf

> > babies for a number of years. We are very lucky to have her!

> >

> > I

> > > may have forgotten to mention that we did mark where he sore

was by

> > > opening the shoe and making an impression into the

> > > heel. See... when we did that her heel was pressed firmly

into

> > the

> > > shoe where it should have been all along. So that's where he

cut,

> > > and what we saw was the sore nowhere near the hole's center, in

> > fact

> > > it was up near the top right edge (hummm... maybe there's some

kind

> > > of correlation here... her sore was slightly off to the

outside

> > just

> > > a bit, nowhere near where Isabella's were though).

> >

> >

> >

> > This is what I was wondering...if the edge of the hole could

cause

> > any issues with the foot coming into contact with it and if it

rubbed

> > at all well that wouldn't be a good thing. But it isn't a good

thing

> > for the foot to rub anywhere in the shoe.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Trust me, I'm not arguing real *knowledge as fact* about

anything

> > > here because I don't know for sure much at all about the new

shoes

> > > having never seen them personally. But imagining what they

are,

> > > based on Markell's PDF and now, the pics of Isabella in her

shoes

> > > where we got a peek at the hole a bit, I see that the hole

itself

> > is

> > > actually the heel pocket area on the other model without the

> > > hole. I'm only guessing here when I say that I feel that the

hole

> > > was not a contributing factor in this case but I really don't

think

> > > so being that the counter in the shoe designed to press into

the

> > > upper heel area is still there and fully functional because the

> > hole

> > > is so low. Not having leather in the lower heel area where no

> > > pressure sores have been reported being even near, PLUS the

well

> > > known fact that the heel in a freshly corrected foot is not

even

> > > formed well yet... I dunno... just not so sure the hole had

> > > anything to do with it. So many of us have done exactly what

her

> > > parents did (I hate talking about them like that... we don't

even

> > > know their names! lol) and not *FORCED* the foot deeply into

the

> > shoe

> > > before tightening. Once the bugger is in there, without that

> > window

> > > we don't know a darn thing. I like the hole though. I wish I

> > could

> > > do some more in depth work with it so I could talk about it

> > > intelligently lol.

> >

> >

> > I totally agree, there needs to be a hole there so that you can

see

> > where the foot/heel is! When you look at the new 1645 model

though,

> > the hole is large and stitched. I wondered if the top stitched

edge

> > may cause some problems.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > oh, ok I think I'm getting what you're talking about now... I

see

> > > what you're saying, yes. It wouldn't there would it? ok, well

> > > either way I think both kinds would be effective as a window.

how

> > > far can you see inside this way? can you actually see the heel

in

> > > the back? I know that there were a couple times when I would

> > notice

> > > Darbi's foot coming up but I could only tell this from the

little

> > > change in the distance from the bottom of her heel to the lower

> > edge

> > > of the hole. I honestly don't know what the heel rising would

look

> > > like from the side. Oh, I gotta see your pics! The hole she

cuts

> > is

> > > in the lower edge right? at the sole?

> >

> >

> >

> > I will send another pic to the list. Our orthotist will be

punching

> > this hole for all our shoes. Parents could request this for their

> > older kids too, the orthotist should have a punch right there in

the

> > office. I always like to see where Grace's heel is, even now.

> >

> > Ya know, as long as the hole in the new shoes isn't causing any

> > probs, it's all good! If there are no issues, then great =) but

it

> > does make me wonder, that top stitched part of the hole in the

> > 1645's...Something to keep an eye out for. I won't bother Jay cus

> > really the hole is great if it isn't causing any problems =)

> >

> >

> >

> > > Thanks so much for offering this up ! Got my gears

> > > turning... I would love to experiment more with these shoes

and

> > > holes... lol! Darbi's like almost 3 though! not a baby

anymore :~

> > {

> >

> >

> > This group (with you leading the way!) is the reason that the

1645's

> > are now available! Pat yourself on the back girl!

> >

> >

> >

> > > Kori

> >

>