Re: Hot Debate, Need Some Opinions

[Guest guest]

I suppose the first point I can make is that its irrelevant whether

or not the surgery is cosmetic. Its your body, your future and your

choice. I'd say almost allcases are part functional and part

cosmetic as the cosmetic problem has a root cause in a functional

problem. Cure one and cure both. So I'd say relax about his opinion.

Maybe he is a little insecure about your future life direction and

doesn't want you to change. Just ask yourself what you want and go

for it.

>

> My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to do

surgery

> is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer

to my

> surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part of

it is for

> cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw function

and

> speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't think

it is a

> severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job market and

he

> should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> suporting myself).

>

> Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

matter of

> what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I don't

> understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on what

> basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind of

> reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic surgery "

and

> since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be better

than

> anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas

has

> lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He also

says

> that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

hospital

> fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't think

it make

> sense!!!

>

> I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

surgery "

> as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when

he says

> that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of " high

> demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the higher

> price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

experience in

> Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much was your

> cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

because

> of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should I

believe in

> what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I deal with

him.

>

> Sandy

[Guest guest]

Straight from a guy who's had jaw surgery and genioplasty twice.

Yes, it's functional, but good grief, what is wrong with wanting to

look better? Almost everyone (there are exceptions and I work

with some of them), cares about what they look like. His

rationale about Las Vegas is completely unfounded and

ridiculous. I certainly don't think Las Vegas is a haven for plastic

surgery, let alone jaw surgery. Tell him to read this board,

research orthognathic surgery, etc. etc. and if he won't do it, then

that is a pretty good sign he's not a good keeper.

> >

> > My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my

jaw

> > surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to

do

> surgery

> > is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always

refer

> to my

> > surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part

of

> it is for

> > cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw

function

> and

> > speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't

think

> it is a

> > severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job

market and

> he

> > should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100%

financially

> > suporting myself).

> >

> > Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

> matter of

> > what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons

and get

> > surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I

don't

> > understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him

on what

> > basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he

kind of

> > reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic

surgery "

> and

> > since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be

better

> than

> > anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las

Vegas

> has

> > lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He

also

> says

> > that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

> hospital

> > fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't

think

> it make

> > sense!!!

> >

> > I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

> surgery "

> > as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when

> he says

> > that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of

" high

> > demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the

higher

> > price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

> experience in

> > Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much

was your

> > cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

> because

> > of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should

I

> believe in

> > what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I

deal with

> him.

> >

> > Sandy

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy,

I am sorry that you are having arguements with your boyfriend about the

surgery. My boyfriend's support of my decision really helped to make a

difficult decision and time a little easier. I am no therapist, but it

does sound like your boyfriend has some issues about you wanting to

make yourself feel better about yourself- like maybe once you get the

surgery you will be too hot for him and he is scared to take that

chance...

As for suggesting Vegas, Is he saying that if you do it in Vegas, he

will change his mind and be there to support you? Sounds like he is

looking for a chance to get get something out of this himself... I

don't think his opinion that " they do cosmetic things more in Vegas so

it's cheaper " really makes sense... at least not for this surgery.

Maybe if it was something like a nose job which they dole out by the

billions in LA I would be able to see his point... but this IS a

medical surgery and I would go to the place that is best qualified to

deal with this particular issue. Besides, if you go someplace that is

focussed on cosmetic results, they will probably just slap in a jaw

implant or tell you to redo your teeth- it makes me so upset when I see

them do that to people on TV for the sake of the show and not really

FIX the problem.

I'm in NY and just had my surgery. My dr. is a big fancy guy in the

field of maxillofacial deformities (his website is

www.FacesThatSmile.com). I know my insurance covered $16,000 of it and

as far as I was told, the only out of pocket money I had to pay was the

$500 deductible. I only had lower jaw advancement but I am reading

crazy bill costs on the posts and starting to get nervous that a

$30,000 bill is gonna show up in my mailbox but I'm just gonna wait and

see. Also, keep in mind, you may not want to travel too far for your

surgery because then you have to travel BACK. I am staying with my

boyfriend who lives on a 4th floor walk-up and they were worried about

me climbing the 3 flights of stairs - I doubt they would have let me

get on a plane!

One more thing... and I'm sorry if I am overstepping your question ...

after surgery you will look ugly. You will feel crappy and you will not

want anyone who does not love you to be around you. My boyfriend also

comments on hot women and usually it doesn't really bother me because I

felt and still do feel confident with how I look. When I first saw my

big, swollen face after surgery, I thought he would definitely tease me

me and I would feel bad. He did not tease me and he has been waiting on

me hand and foot for the last 6 days. Think about in advance who you

want to spend the time with after your surgery. Physically, you will

feel bad. Emotionally, you will want people who will make you feel

good.

I hope some of what I said helps and I'm sorry if I offered too much

advice. I hope things work out for you!

Best, Tova

>

> My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> surgery.  Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to do

> surgery

> is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer to my

> surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. "   I would admit that part of it

> is for

> cosmetic purpose, but not all.  Some of it are for my jaw function and

> speech improvement.  Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't think it

> is a

> severe crime.  I need some self-confidence to enter job market and he

> should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> suporting myself).

>

> Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no matter of

> what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I don't

> understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on what

> basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind of

> reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic surgery " and

> since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be better than

> anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas has

> lots of gorgeous people  becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " )  He also says

> that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and hospital

> fees) would be lower than in IL???????  I definitely don't think it

> make

> sense!!!

>

> I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw surgery "

> as " a plastic surgery " :  to him, they are the same!!!!  But when he

> says

> that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of " high

> demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the higher

> price according to economic theory).  Anyone has surgery experience in

> Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada?  May I ask how much was your

> cost in total?  Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

> because

> of " high demand " ????????  Also can anyone tell me should I believe in

> what he say--what this guy is talking?????  How should I deal with

> him. 

>

> Sandy

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy ~ I can tell you that this surgery is certainly NOT

cosmetic because where I live (in Canada) it is covered by

healthcare ~ I'm sure the government would never consider paying for

a cosmetic procedure!=) Your boyfriend is basically insulting

orthognathic surgeons the world over by saying this ~ they are

highly skilled medical surgeons! I'm sure there are a lot of

cosmetic surgeons who are very good at what they do, but implants

and 'quick fixes' are very different.

May I ask what type of surgery you're having done? I will be having

upper and lower on Feb 16th. I won't lie and say that I am not

interested in the cosmetic enhancement this should have on my face,

but the major underlying reason for having this done is to have a

normal bite. Being able to speak easily and freely, being able to

chew properly and digest my food better, as well as having a

comfortable smile. Then there are the added benefits of not

constantly having tension in my jaws and headaches etc.

You mentioned the job market ~ ever since I graduated from

University I have been doing temp jobs because I lack confidence in

myself and find it difficult to communicate clearly, so I am not

very good at interviews! It's your life and you only get one, so you

need to go after your dreams and not waste your time worrying about

what other ppl want you to do. This surgery is a BIG DEAL, it isn't

a nose job, you will need support and understanding not only in the

hospital but in the months following while you recover. It's better

to have no one around you than to have someone who is stressing you

out and making the process more difficult.

I would suggest getting your boyfriend to look at some sites on the

internet about this kind of surgery. Most ppl don't understand how

much your bite has an effect on the rest of your health in the long

run. Both physically and emotionally. And ppl with normal bites

have no right to judge anyone for wanting a chance to be normal!

Good luck with everything, and remember we are all here for you ~ I

think most of us have dealt with similar situations.

>

> My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to do

surgery

> is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer

to my

> surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part of

it is for

> cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw function

and

> speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't think

it is a

> severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job market and

he

> should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> suporting myself).

>

> Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

matter of

> what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I don't

> understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on what

> basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind of

> reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic surgery "

and

> since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be better

than

> anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas

has

> lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He also

says

> that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

hospital

> fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't think

it make

> sense!!!

>

> I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

surgery "

> as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when

he says

> that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of " high

> demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the higher

> price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

experience in

> Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much was your

> cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

because

> of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should I

believe in

> what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I deal with

him.

>

> Sandy

[Guest guest]

Oh, Sandy.

This guy sounds like he's WAY outta line, to me. Not that I'm

pushing surgery, nor having it in any particular place.

I MIGHT try taking him with me to an appointment, so that the ortho

could explain why the surgery is important -- that is, if I were in

a very generous and understanding mood.

But the fact is, he sounds scary in his attempts to control you, to

me. (Abuse often follows such attempts at domination, I am told by

specialists in such. Think very, very carefully before you let this

relationship go further, I'd advise.)

You're not asking him to pay for it. And I think if you're wise, you

won't ask him to help care for you after the surgery -- get someone

else, if you have to hire a nurse or an aide to do it.

Right now, the surgery may seem " cosmetic. " (And if it is, what the

H--l business is it of his?) But in the long term, you may be saving

your joints and your teeth -- my periodontist tells me that changing

my " very destructive bite " has made all the difference in my mouth.

As for going to Nevada -- I have nothing against the state, and

there may be many splendid oral and maxillofacial surgeons there.

But I can tell you that from what I remember, anyhow, the posts from

that state on this board have reflected an almost universal

inclination to go elsewhere -- California, Arizona, Texas, best I

remember, to have the surgery.

In short, your fella is full of it. Tell him your ancient auntie

said so, not that such will matter to him. More important, he's

really, um, showing his a--, and his behavior makes me think that

perhaps he's not the guy for you. Although I admit that I don't

know, have never met either one of you.

What a creep! And I am not beginning to suggest that everyone should

have surgery, or needs surgery, or wants surgery. I'm no doc, don't

get anything out of anybody's decisions. But yuck! It should be up

to you and your docs. (And your insurance company, and maybe your

bankers!)

C.

>

> My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to do

surgery

> is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer

to my

> surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part of

it is for

> cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw function

and

> speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't think

it is a

> severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job market and

he

> should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> suporting myself).

>

> Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

matter of

> what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I don't

> understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on what

> basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind of

> reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic surgery "

and

> since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be better

than

> anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas

has

> lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He also

says

> that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

hospital

> fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't think

it make

> sense!!!

>

> I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

surgery "

> as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when

he says

> that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of " high

> demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the higher

> price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

experience in

> Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much was your

> cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

because

> of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should I

believe in

> what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I deal with

him.

>

> Sandy

[Guest guest]

Amen. And ask the guy how he'd feel about you if you gained, say, 75

pounds.... Whether he might think surgery a good idea to deal with

that... I'd bet you'll get a different answer about a " cosmetic "

procedure, although not about where to have it!

C.

> > >

> > > My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my

> jaw

> > > surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want

to

> do

> > surgery

> > > is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always

> refer

> > to my

> > > surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part

> of

> > it is for

> > > cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw

> function

> > and

> > > speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't

> think

> > it is a

> > > severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job

> market and

> > he

> > > should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100%

> financially

> > > suporting myself).

> > >

> > > Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

> > matter of

> > > what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons

> and get

> > > surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I

> don't

> > > understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him

> on what

> > > basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he

> kind of

> > > reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic

> surgery "

> > and

> > > since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be

> better

> > than

> > > anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las

> Vegas

> > has

> > > lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He

> also

> > says

> > > that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

> > hospital

> > > fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't

> think

> > it make

> > > sense!!!

> > >

> > > I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

> > surgery "

> > > as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But

when

> > he says

> > > that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of

> " high

> > > demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the

> higher

> > > price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

> > experience in

> > > Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much

> was your

> > > cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in

America

> > because

> > > of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should

> I

> > believe in

> > > what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I

> deal with

> > him.

> > >

> > > Sandy

[Guest guest]

I know this is a bit late, but I wanted to contribue since I live in

Las Vegas.

My surgery was done by an oral surgeon, not a plastic surgeon.

Covered by my medical insurance. I think that there are a lot of

average people in Vegas, we are not all showgirls or dancers that

have a lot of cosmetic procedures!

As for being cheaper out here, I don't think so. My hospital charges

were $44,000, and doctor charges were about $18,000. (all were

reduced in what they were actually paid due to being contracted

providers with the insurance)

Good Luck with your surgery, you have to do what is right for YOU,

not him!!

a

>

> My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to do

surgery

> is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer to

my

> surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part of

it is for

> cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw function

and

> speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't think

it is a

> severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job market and

he

> should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> suporting myself).

>

> Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no matter

of

> what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I don't

> understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on what

> basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind of

> reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic surgery "

and

> since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be better

than

> anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas has

> lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He also

says

> that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

hospital

> fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't think it

make

> sense!!!

>

> I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

surgery "

> as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when he

says

> that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because of " high

> demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the higher

> price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery experience

in

> Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much was your

> cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

because

> of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should I believe

in

> what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I deal with

him.

>

> Sandy

[Guest guest]

" Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin as self-negligence " WS

> >

> > My boyfriend and I were having a big argument regarding my jaw

> > surgery. Fisrt, he strongly believes that the reason I want to

do

> surgery

> > is purely cosmetic concerned. No matter of what, he always refer

to

> my

> > surgery plan as " a cosmetic surgery. " I would admit that part

of

> it is for

> > cosmetic purpose, but not all. Some of it are for my jaw

function

> and

> > speech improvement. Eventhough it is for cosmetic, I don't

think

> it is a

> > severe crime. I need some self-confidence to enter job market

and

> he

> > should pay some respect on my decision (I am a 100% financially

> > suporting myself).

> >

> > Second, when he learned that I am trying very hard to do, no

matter

> of

> > what, he was convincing me that I should seek surgeons and get

> > surgery in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am living in Illinois, and I

don't

> > understand why it has to be " Las Vegas? " When I asked him on

what

> > basis he pick that place and surgeons from that place, he kind

of

> > reasons that people overthere are doing lots of " cosmetic

surgery "

> and

> > since they do " it " all the time, the surgeon there must be

better

> than

> > anywhere (since we start to date, he kept saying that Las Vegas

has

> > lots of gorgeous people becuase of " cosmetic surgery. " ) He

also

> says

> > that since there is a high demand, supply (surgeon fees and

> hospital

> > fees) would be lower than in IL??????? I definitely don't think

it

> make

> > sense!!!

> >

> > I don't buy his ideas since I know that he percieve my " jaw

> surgery "

> > as " a plastic surgery " : to him, they are the same!!!! But when

he

> says

> > that the fees would be cheaper, I kinda tilt not because

of " high

> > demand " as he says (that is not true--the more demands, the

higher

> > price according to economic theory). Anyone has surgery

experience

> in

> > Las Vegas or somewhere in Nevada? May I ask how much was your

> > cost in total? Is it extreamly cheap than any where in America

> because

> > of " high demand " ???????? Also can anyone tell me should I

believe

> in

> > what he say--what this guy is talking????? How should I deal

with

> him.

> >

> > Sandy

[Guest guest]

Wow - that's a powerful quote!

>

>

>

> " Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin as self-negligence " WS

>