Guest guest Posted September 25, 2001 Report Share Posted September 25, 2001 Dee- That group (ossg-insurancehelp) is dominated and controlled by a bunch of RNY Nazis who have no clue about the DS other than what the insurance companies that deny it say. I posted something criticizing the moderator's comments about Steve's request for assistance for his insurance denial and they refused to post it. They love the RNY because they're saddled with pain and frustration forever which meets their pathetic and sadomasochistic needs. This is a perfect example of why censorship should not be a part of these groups. Their comments are that the RNY is the " gold standard " and the DS is " experimental. " Are they shills for the insurance companies? Their jealousy of our ability to lose more and keep it off while eating a near-normal diet overcomes their good judgment and common sense. Their information goes back to the NIH which, at the time, was state of the art. A lot of water has passed over the dam since then. The doctors who make more money with more surgeries per day just don't want to have to hone their surgical skills and perform fewer of the superior surgeries. Can you tell that those idiots pushed my buttons? Best - Nick in Sage Dr. Keshishian 8/29/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2001 Report Share Posted September 25, 2001 LOL, I tried so hard not to name names! But I do agree with you about what you said about the group. It okay to be passionate and encouraging about the type of surgery done but calling people stupid and TELLING them not to fight for a DS goes way out of bounds. dee --- Nick wrote: > Dee- > > That group (ossg-insurancehelp) is dominated and > controlled by a bunch of > RNY Nazis who have no clue about the DS other than > what the insurance > companies that deny it say. I posted something > criticizing the moderator's > comments about Steve's request for assistance for > his insurance denial and > they refused to post it. They love the RNY because > they're saddled with > pain and frustration forever which meets their > pathetic and sadomasochistic > needs. This is a perfect example of why censorship > should not be a part of > these groups. > > Their comments are that the RNY is the " gold > standard " and the DS is > " experimental. " Are they shills for the insurance > companies? Their > jealousy of our ability to lose more and keep it off > while eating a > near-normal diet overcomes their good judgment and > common sense. > > Their information goes back to the NIH which, at the > time, was state of the > art. A lot of water has passed over the dam since > then. The doctors who > make more money with more surgeries per day just > don't want to have to hone > their surgical skills and perform fewer of the > superior surgeries. > > Can you tell that those idiots pushed my buttons? > > Best - > > Nick in Sage > Dr. Keshishian > 8/29/01 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2001 Report Share Posted September 25, 2001 Yeah, everyone's a doctor. They just don't have to do 10 years of gruelling training, or pay malpractice insurance premiums. Unfortunately, DS doesn't always work. Some people's systems just adapt to their malabsorptive intestines better and more quickly than others. This seems to ba happening to me. Despite increasing restrictions on all sugars, even fruit and milk, and increases in exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post op. I lost 30 lbs the first week, 15 the second, then went into a four lb/week pattern for a few weeks, then a two lb/week pattern, now nothing. I am advised to restrict calories some more, and exercise more heavily, i.e. running. We'll see how long I can keep that up. It's ironic that things keep coming back to the same thing with me, white-knuckle dieting and running. On the plus side, I have lost 60 lbs and my diabetes is WAY better. I am almost off the insulin. I am nervous though that I may start to gain again as my stomach gradually gets bigger. At least I don't have to drink those protein shakes any more. > > Dee- > > > > That group (ossg-insurancehelp) is dominated and > > controlled by a bunch of > > RNY Nazis who have no clue about the DS other than > > what the insurance > > companies that deny it say. I posted something > > criticizing the moderator's > > comments about Steve's request for assistance for > > his insurance denial and > > they refused to post it. They love the RNY because > > they're saddled with > > pain and frustration forever which meets their > > pathetic and sadomasochistic > > needs. This is a perfect example of why censorship > > should not be a part of > > these groups. > > > > Their comments are that the RNY is the " gold > > standard " and the DS is > > " experimental. " Are they shills for the insurance > > companies? Their > > jealousy of our ability to lose more and keep it off > > while eating a > > near-normal diet overcomes their good judgment and > > common sense. > > > > Their information goes back to the NIH which, at the > > time, was state of the > > art. A lot of water has passed over the dam since > > then. The doctors who > > make more money with more surgeries per day just > > don't want to have to hone > > their surgical skills and perform fewer of the > > superior surgeries. > > > > Can you tell that those idiots pushed my buttons? > > > > Best - > > > > Nick in Sage > > Dr. Keshishian > > 8/29/01 > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2001 Report Share Posted September 25, 2001 Dunno, we'll see. The trend has been steady ever since the operation. Let's hope you're right. I am making a point of not getting too bent about it, to wait and see. As I said, I am enjoying vastly improved blood sugar situation, which was the primary reason for getting WLS in the first place. I won't deny that the idea of being buff and thin again was appealing, but I decided a long time ago that people could kiss my ass if they didn't approve of the way I looked. > > Re: Angry Moderators > > > > exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post op. I lost > > 30 lbs the first week, 15 the second, then went into a four lb/week > > pattern for a few weeks, then a two lb/week pattern, now nothing. > > ..and you're sure it's not simply a plateau? 60 lbs is a really large 2 > month loss. > > I'm sorry you're having difficulties. > > alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 , Do we get to kiss yer arse if we approve of how you look? Laughing.... Hang in there, Theresa > > > > Re: Angry Moderators > > > > > > > exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post op. I > lost > > > 30 lbs the first week, 15 the second, then went into a four > lb/week > > > pattern for a few weeks, then a two lb/week pattern, now nothing. > > > > ..and you're sure it's not simply a plateau? 60 lbs is a really > large 2 > > month loss. > > > > I'm sorry you're having difficulties. > > > > alyssa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 Just a question here - WHEN is NIH going to update their info and include the DS???? The info they have is several years old at this point. Anyone know???? Hugs Betsy Nick wrote: Dee- That group (ossg-insurancehelp) is dominated and controlled by a bunch of RNY Nazis who have no clue about the DS other than what the insurance companies that deny it say. I posted something criticizing the moderator's comments about Steve's request for assistance for his insurance denial and they refused to post it. They love the RNY because they're saddled with pain and frustration forever which meets their pathetic and sadomasochistic needs. This is a perfect example of why censorship should not be a part of these groups. Their comments are that the RNY is the " gold standard " and the DS is " experimental. " Are they shills for the insurance companies? Their jealousy of our ability to lose more and keep it off while eating a near-normal diet overcomes their good judgment and common sense. Their information goes back to the NIH which, at the time, was state of the art. A lot of water has passed over the dam since then. The doctors who make more money with more surgeries per day just don't want to have to hone their surgical skills and perform fewer of the superior surgeries. Can you tell that those idiots pushed my buttons? Best - Nick in Sage Dr. Keshishian 8/29/01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 I know how you feel . My body seems determined to fight this surgery every single step of the way. I am on the plateau from hell 4 weeks now. I can't help but think thats all she wrote as far as weight loss is concerned. I went to My Surgeon yesterday got my labs back. My labs are perfect with the exception of my cholesterol and triglicerides (sp) which are almost normal. I am just joined a gym but I cant help but think that this isnt going to be smooth sailing for me. Now that I have whined I should add- I feel good though. So no the scale aint moving and yeah I still looking chunky but man oh man I can run up and down stairs walk uphill and not feel like I am going to pass out. Lisbeth wrote: Yeah, everyone's a doctor. They just don't have to do 10 years of gruelling training, or pay malpractice insurance premiums. Unfortunately, DS doesn't always work. Some people's systems just adapt to their malabsorptive intestines better and more quickly than others. This seems to ba happening to me. Despite increasing restrictions on all sugars, even fruit and milk, and increases in exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post op. I lost 30 lbs the first week, 15 the second, then went into a four lb/week pattern for a few weeks, then a two lb/week pattern, now nothing. I am advised to restrict calories some more, and exercise more heavily, i.e. running. We'll see how long I can keep that up. It's ironic that things keep coming back to the same thing with me, white-knuckle dieting and running. On the plus side, I have lost 60 lbs and my diabetes is WAY better. I am almost off the insulin. I am nervous though that I may start to gain again as my stomach gradually gets bigger. At least I don't have to drink those protein shakes any more. > > Dee- > > > > That group (ossg-insurancehelp) is dominated and > > controlled by a bunch of > > RNY Nazis who have no clue about the DS other than > > what the insurance > > companies that deny it say. I posted something > > criticizing the moderator's > > comments about Steve's request for assistance for > > his insurance denial and > > they refused to post it. They love the RNY because > > they're saddled with > > pain and frustration forever which meets their > > pathetic and sadomasochistic > > needs. This is a perfect example of why censorship > > should not be a part of > > these groups. > > > > Their comments are that the RNY is the " gold > > standard " and the DS is > > " experimental. " Are they shills for the insurance > > companies? Their > > jealousy of our ability to lose more and keep it off > > while eating a > > near-normal diet overcomes their good judgment and > > common sense. > > > > Their information goes back to the NIH which, at the > > time, was state of the > > art. A lot of water has passed over the dam since > > then. The doctors who > > make more money with more surgeries per day just > > don't want to have to hone > > their surgical skills and perform fewer of the > > superior surgeries. > > > > Can you tell that those idiots pushed my buttons? > > > > Best - > > > > Nick in Sage > > Dr. Keshishian > > 8/29/01 > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 It is not the NIH per se, it is the National Institute for Diabetes, Digestive and Kidney Disease. What needs to be done is to bombard them with e-mail, phone calls, and/or Congressional Inqueries. That seems to be the only way the get political attention inside the DC Beltway. The email address for the director (Dr. Spiegel) of the NIDDK is as3s@... Phone: address: Building 31, Room 9A52 : 31 Center Drive, MSC 2560 : Bethesda, land 20892-2560 IC: NIDDK fax: The email address for the Acting Director of the NIH is: Mail addressed to rk25n@... will be forwarded to kirschsr@... email: kirschsr@... name: Ruth Kirschstein alias: rk25n IC: od lastname: Kirschstein verified_by_user: 22 Nov 1995 17:47:23 Bob > >Reply-To: duodenalswitch >To: duodenalswitch >Subject: Re: Angry Moderators >Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:45:52 -0700 (PDT) > > > Just a question here - WHEN is NIH going to update their info and include >the DS???? The info they have is several years old at this point. Anyone >know???? > >Hugs > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 , Sounds to me like you may have had some unrealistic views of what surgery was like and what to expect afterwards. I am not trying to be mean, I just think there are many who don't know about how hard this surgery is. You are right when you said we need to express that this isn't easy by any means nor does weight " just fall off " . I am two months out and I feel like I am doing great, but I do work at it. I am very careful about my food choices and I am very good about taking all my vitamins. What I do like about this is that I can eat whatever I want and I don't feel deprived. I make sure I make high protein choices and eat those first, and then I let myself have something with carbs or sugar. By the time I get to those, I am pretty full and I don't eat more than 2 bites. I had a lot of surgery depression during my first 6 weeks. I felt like the scale was going down, but I didn't see it in a mirror. I finally did start to see changes, but not as fast as I wanted. Now I still see that problem stomach and I don't look at how much better other parts are doing. You really need to give yourself more time. If restricting sweets isn't working to break the plateau, try another approach. Some people find that eating a donut or something else sugary and fatty kick starts things. Others find that eating more helps. I know I lose more when I force more water down. I hope some of this helps. Kathy M. DS 7/19/01 213 pre-op 163 today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 beth,' I am in the same boat as you. Plateau hell. My 3 month labs were excellent. I hope we both get things rolling along. I would like to be one of those people who at 6 months have lost 100lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 Thanks Kathy. Your example could be me, so I suppose I should not conclude anything yet. It was discouraging to hear some people go on and on about " eating whatever I want and watching the pounds just fall off " . I hear so much of the good things about DS and so little about the bad. Right off the bat, recovery was far more grueling and uncomfortable that I had expected. And now the weight loss is slower, even stopping at times. These sort of aspects ought to get more press. Lay enthusiasts of certain procedures tend to toot up all the positives, and forget to mention the risks and negatives. Not sure why, maybe they crave self-validation. Like most other topics, all points of view should be examined. A whole lot of physicians hold RNY in very high regard, and after my own research, I understand why. I wish people would stop spewing such opinionated absolutes about a topic for which they lack professional credentials. There is the potential for tremendous harm to be done. > > ..snip.. > > > > Unfortunately, DS doesn't always work. Some people's systems just > > adapt to their malabsorptive intestines better and more quickly than > > others. This seems to ba happening to me. Despite increasing > > restrictions on all sugars, even fruit and milk, and increases in > > exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post op...snip.. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 , You make a very good point in your message. It seems almost sacriligeous to say anything negative about the surgery. I have seen folks turned on when they were caught in a slump or pain. As a preop, those letters serve me best. Also, all of the folks who support and reinforce those stuck in a slump really provide a tremendous service. Not only to those hurting, but those of us who are preop and are...oh, terrified! The bottom line is that for most peeople, the DS has been a life saver. There are grave risks attached and those who share them really do keep the rest of us with our feet on the ground. As for the RNY, although that surgery is not for me....I know so many people who have had that surgery, who are extremely successful, and who are wonderful and sharing people. I would hate to have surgery and find out afterwards that the risks I willingly took could have been avoided by a different or newer surgery. Seem reasonable? We are all brothers and sisters in obesity....sounds corny as shite, but its true, and we really need to support each and everyone one of us! , I am sure things will be turning around for you, and I really appreciate your sharing your frustrations and fears. Thanks so much. Theresa (2) > > > ..snip.. > > > > > > Unfortunately, DS doesn't always work. Some people's systems just > > > adapt to their malabsorptive intestines better and more quickly > than > > > others. This seems to ba happening to me. Despite increasing > > > restrictions on all sugars, even fruit and milk, and increases in > > > exercise, my weight loss has stopped. I am two months post > op...snip.. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2001 Report Share Posted September 26, 2001 Don't let yourself get discouraged. Because I've been on this list for almost a year, I've seen a wide range of post-op issues. However, I believe most of the people here are pre-ops or new post-ops. You might try subscribing to this list to hear (and get help for) some of the problems people have post-op: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DS_PostOp_Problems In regards to pain in recovery, I believe that it is nearly impossible to prepare someone adequately for the amount of pain without totally terrifying them. And different people tolerate pain differently. I was sort of prepared because I've given birth to 3 children, 2 of them by natural childbirth and watched both my parents recover from major abdominal surgery. But I was still not totally prepared. My mindset was different than most because I *had* to have surgery. WLS was secondary to having a giant ovarian cyst removed. So I had no choice. Couldn't of backed out even if I wanted too. Well, now I'm rambling. The point I'm trying to get to is that even though people do write about their problems, they tend to try to not emphasize it too much because overall they are very happy they had the surgery and don't want to unduly discourage someone. Please continue to write whenever you feel discouraged and we'll do our best to help. Just keep focusing on protein, water and exercise! I'm sure you'll see some progress soon. KathleenF Open DGB/DS Dr. Rabkin/Dr. Jossart 01/02/01: 374# 09/26/01: 247# http://www.webniche.com/wls > ..snip.. > > It was discouraging to hear some people go on and on about " eating > whatever I want and watching the pounds just fall off " . I hear so much > of the good things about DS and so little about the bad. Right off the > bat, recovery was far more grueling and uncomfortable that I had > expected. And now the weight loss is slower, even stopping at times. > These sort of aspects ought to get more press. > > Lay enthusiasts of certain procedures tend to toot up all the > positives, and forget to mention the risks and negatives. ..snip.. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2001 Report Share Posted September 27, 2001 In a message dated 9/26/01 10:18:49 PM, duodenalswitch writes: << It was discouraging to hear some people go on and on about " eating > whatever I want and watching the pounds just fall off " . I hear so much > of the good things about DS and so little about the bad. Right off the > bat, recovery was far more grueling and uncomfortable that I had > expected. And now the weight loss is slower, even stopping at times. > These sort of aspects ought to get more press. >> : There have been people on the list who have had problems, some of them pretty severe, and have vocalized them. Look in the archives and you will see this. I'm only 8 months post op and I can remember many, many cases where people experienced difficulties of some sort or another and shared it on this list. I was not one of them -- my recovery has truely been really smooth. But, I remember those with diahhrea (quite severe), problems eating/throwing up, blockages which resulted in second surgeries, some pretty difficult and long recoveries (including extended hospital stays). Many have said that the first few weeks were a big adjustment for them. Others were still struggling with some issues (oily discharge, diahhrea, nausea, throwing up, being unable to eat) a longer time out than that. Still others discussed various mental/emotional changes that they are dealing with as post-ops. There were long threads about diahhrea, orange oily discharge, nausea and various remedies. There have been REPEATED discussions (and I've initiated and participated in these) about slow/non-existant weight loss and fears that one's 'plateau' will last forever. I may be able to 'eat whatever I want', but the pounds HAVEN'T always been 'just falling off me'! When I'm on a plateau, I'm stuck for awhile and it's discouraging. I just got off a great roll where I lost quite a bit but now I've gained two pounds and know I'm in for the long haul. There is even a list 'post-op problems' to discuss such things in detail and get help/support. As to whether there is a bias against negativity here --- I honestly am torn on that one. People have expressed their frustration (even rage), uncertainty, pain and have gotten positive responses. Others may post once and or twice every once in awhile and are not frequent (perhaps because they are dealing with the problems and aren't online as much). I'm sure there are some who felt 'slighted' and decided to leave for whatever reason or decided not to post again on this list. That is their decision and I honestly have NOT seen any extreme bias or attempt to 'shut them up' because they expressed their post-op lifestyle was less than ideal. I think they are dealing with other emotional issues related to their situation and it would be difficult to console them no matter how hard anyone tried (especially in a rather impersonal online forum rather than a face-to-face or more personal exchange). I have noticed that there may be less post-op 'regulars' on the list actively posting.. People do move on and they may be reading but not responding as often. Many people experience difficulties in the first few months, share it with the group and then the problems work themselves out and they are not as vocal anymore. I think there are more pre-ops on the list right now but I anticipate when the next 'wave' of surgeries occur you will hear more about people's adjustments/problems/concerns immediately post-op and beyond. all the best, lap ds with gallbladder removal january 25, 2001 Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC eight months post-op and still feelin' fabu! preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45 now: 217 (ouch -- another plateau is on the way!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2001 Report Share Posted September 27, 2001 Gwen, This plateau hell is frustrating. I just wanted to get to 50 lbs by the 6 month mark there is a part of me that feels like I never going to get rid of this 100 lbs I know I am half way there but. I feel my body fighting to retain all these damn pounds. I think and I am not sure that one of the reasons that I am on this plateau is because I am consuming more carbs so I am going to cut back on them and see how that goes. We will both get to goal Gwen I know we will *hugs* Lisbeth --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2001 Report Share Posted September 27, 2001 > Lay enthusiasts of certain procedures tend to toot up all the > > positives, and forget to mention the risks and negatives. Not sure > > why, maybe they crave self-validation. Sometimes I think there is a reason that many of us post ops forget the negatives. In fact an acquantance who recently had surgery accused (not in a mean way) me and other post ops of not telling of the whole truth of the post op recovery period and adjustment. They also wondered if our satisfaction with food, the amounts we eat and that " we can eat anything " was just because the surgery was so traumatic initially on our digestive track that our perception had changed so much that we weren't REALLY eating normal. (I don't know if you understand) Or basically that we had put our bodies through such abuse (the surgery) that anything would seem wonderful in comparison. (still don't know if I am getting it across here). Well, the reason new post ops might be able to accuse us of this is this. It is similar to when women go through the birth of their first child. During the labor and delivery, the pain, agony, discomfort, etc. are horrible. However, recovery is quick and the reward splendid and you quickly forget the horribleness of the experience. And in the case of childbirth the reward is much quicker than with WLS. With wls you wake up very injured and still morbidly obese. It takes a good long while to see the rewards. In general, I always tell people that the first month is NASTY. If you have an absolute smooth recovery things will progress in a noticeable way after that. However, there is a significant percentage that it takes 3 months to get over the NASTY period. Then there is the rare percentage that have major complications, and although almost all overcome them, it takes them even longer to get over the hump. I know another tough psychological hurdle is feeling like you are not losing weight or that the surgery is not working. I think (as I have said before) is that your body doesn't have all the symptoms and feeling of weight loss like any successful (if any could be called that) diet before. This is because your stomach has been reduced so it does not need to have an empty feeling in order for you to be losing weight. Also you don't have to exercise for 2-4hours a day (I did that in the past) and have extremely fatigued muscles to be losing weight. You don't have to have that pit in your stomach hungry feeling. Sometimes I think this reduces our confidence in our ability to lose weight because our mind was conditioned to those old signals that even became a self esteem booster that at the moment we were in control. Finally I think (and I do) that you have to look at the pounds lost as not only the pounds you actually lose but the future pounds you will not gain. I have lost 102 pounds (76% of my excess weight) but really consider it to be 152 to 202 pounds. My weight was only going to continue to climb from 267 to 319 to 369 etc. Dawn--South Suburban Chicago area Dr. Hess, Bowling Green, OH BPD/DS 4/27/00 www.duodenalswitch.com 267 to 165 5' 4 " size 22 to size 10 have made size goal no more high blood pressure, sore feet, or dieting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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