Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Does anyone on here feel like they are going through (or have already gone through) an extreme makeover, like the ones on TV? Ppl have already referenced this to me (which is a little rude! but I can certainly understand=) ~ not only will my facial structure change but I think there will be some other changes in my life for the better. Speaking of that show ~ I have seen SO MANY contestants who desperately needed jaw surgery but they all end up getting chin implants and veneers etc. It's sad! I think a lot of veneers look fake ~ especially when they plunk thick ones on top of really crooked teeth. I mean dentures would look better LOL In another thread there was a discussion about spotting ppl who need the surgery, and celebrities who could use it. I mainly find myself spotting " real " ppl rather than celebrities b/c let's face it, in order to be a famous actor/actress you need a decent bite and smile above everything else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 actually, it's none of your business... as much as we want to help others, most people don't want our advice.... what i find horrific is that this woman's orthodontics did not mention the surgery to correct her bite...i suspect he did, and she wasn't interested... the only thing that would be acceptable is to mention to the women that your bite could not simply be fixed by orthodontics and that you required surgery becuase you're bite was too extreme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I know it's not my business to mention this to people as a means of teaching them about it, but I asked the question because it seems SO FEW people have ever even heard of this or know it exists! I only learned about it because my boyfriend is a research hound and he was trying to figure out why I snored and what the deal was with my overbite. When I first started visiting orthodontists, the two I met with were both highly regarded and I learned later, teachers at NYU dental school. I knew to ask about the procedure because of the research we had done. The first orthodontist told me she could tell just by looking at my face that I was not a candidate for this surgery. She also tried to convince me my top center line was off. (My bottom center line was off... not the top.) The second orthodontist said it was possible that I was a candidate for the surgery but he would not be able to tell without full molds, x-rays, an eventual consult from the OS and a full sleep study. I eventually got the braces and the surgery. I am pretty certain neither of them (certainly not the first) would have told me about the surgery unless I asked. So when I became friends with this woman in her 30's, wearing braces for the 3rd time and with a seriously, seriously weak chin, I could not BELIEVE she had never even HEARD of the surgery! They had pulled healthy teeth from the top of her mouth so they could bracket them and yank them back to meet her recessed bottom ones, and her teeth simply refused to stay in that position so she just kept getting braces to " train " her teeth. It made me very sad - and rather angry- that no-one- and she had obviously met with many " professionals " in 35 years- had bothered to tell this woman about the procedure! Now, when I meet people that seem like they might be dealing with similar issues, I will tiptoe towards the issue and see if they have even heard the word " orthognathic " . 8 out of 10 have not. It's just sad and odd... you see every kind of disfiguring & /or heroic surgery on TV but I've never, ever seen anything on anything like this. Just those quick, cosmetic fixes... Am I wrong and just ranting? T. > > > > > > I know a few people whom I figure could benefit from this surgery > > (underbites are the easiest to tell), but I would never, ever tell > > them. > I agree with the member here that says it's really not > your business. > > ## On the other hand, there are people who could benefit that may > not know about it and may not otherwise find out. I'm actually a > perfect example of this. My family dentists over the years have had > to see how off my bite is, but none of them has ever mentioned it. > I've had work done, I've had x-rays and nobody ever even recommended > orthodontia, let alone surgery. When I decided on my own to see an > orthodontist about slight crowding, I found out that surgery was an > option to permanently fix my bite. Until I saw that orthodontist, I > didn't even know I have a problem with my bite! I don't think I'd > have been offended or upset if someone had suggested tactfully to me > that I might look into surgery for my problem. I think I might have > appreciated knowing about this years ago. > > Sharon > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 i guess it all comes down to culture... we all want to help others, but some cultures don't intrude on other's personal boundries, regardless if we feel our help is for their benefit... again, i find it incredibly hard to believe this woman's ortho or dentist has not suggested ortho surgery... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I am having my upper jaw surgery next week. I've been in upper braces for 16 months and lowers for 11 months. I first started noticing that I would grind my teeth at night about 15 years ago; and I have had a bite guard since 1994. My referral to the orthodontist was made (thru my dentist) by my hygienist. Her kids go to the same orthodontist. I would have liked to know that I could have benefited from oral surgery 10 years ago before I spent nearly 10 grand replacing a lot of my teeth with crowns. I'm a private payer since my insurance doesn't cover this procedure. Braces were $5700 and the surgery is $5450. If my OS didn't have such a sweet deal with the hospital (and my being a private payer) I'd probably be billed 8-10K for this surgery. I have TriCare and Premera Blue Cross and neither one covers any part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I had a very close friend who was against any sort of cosmetic surgery as well. Our other good friend said it best to her. She said that there are varying degrees one will go to to improve themselves. On the one end, there is make up. At the other end, there is cosmetic surgery. The friend against cosmetic surgery went on to say she thought it was wrong and you shouldn't change what God made, blah, blah. My friend then went on to ask her, " Did God give you blond hair? " After that, my friend against cosmetic procedures never said another word. > > > > > > > > Does anyone on here feel like they are going through (or have > > > > already gone through) an extreme makeover, like the ones on > TV? Ppl > > > > have already referenced this to me (which is a little rude! > but I > > > > can certainly understand=) ~ not only will my facial structure > > > > change but I think there will be some other changes in my life > for > > > > the better. > > > > > > > > Speaking of that show ~ I have seen SO MANY contestants who > > > > desperately needed jaw surgery but they all end up getting chin > > > > implants and veneers etc. It's sad! I think a lot of veneers > look > > > > fake ~ especially when they plunk thick ones on top of really > > > > crooked teeth. I mean dentures would look better LOL > > > > > > > > In another thread there was a discussion about spotting ppl who > > > need > > > > the surgery, and celebrities who could use it. I mainly find > > > myself > > > > spotting " real " ppl rather than celebrities b/c let's face it, > in > > > > order to be a famous actor/actress you need a decent bite and > smile > > > > above everything else! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hi Tova, I am one of the people who apparently had a major problem with my jaw but I never had a clue until a few weeks ago. I have had regular dental visits 2x/year forever. I have NEVER EVER heard anything about this. When our old dentist retired, the new dentist immediately informed me of the problem. I had all these symptoms, but had no clue they were related to an underlying condition. He knew the first time he saw me. Before I opened my mouth! I thought maybe he was mistaken, even though when I tipped my head back and looked in a mirror, I could see what he was talking about. And though I DO now know people eat usually with food IN their mouth not from their cheeks (I swear I didn't know you are supposed to eat with food actually IN your mouth), but the orthodontists I have since been to (so far - I still have 2 more consults to go), agreed as soon as they looked at me when they walked in the room. Apparently it is the length of my face from where my nose meets my face to the chin above the chin pad that tips them off. Now I see it with other people too! All the time! I must admit I don't see see people with as small of lower face length as I have. But now I notice the bite patterns you have been mentioning here on the board too! And I see this everywhere. I had no idea this was such a common problem. Why don't people know about this? How can you go half a century without hearing this at some point and time? I am 51 and have had some non-related surgeries that are relatively unknown and yet have a lot of symptoms for older women. Whenever I am around one or a few women my age, I will start talking about my experiences. I don't usually mention to them that they might have this problem (sometime I am more rigerous if it is mentioned on a web site related to this type of discussion), but I talk about the SYMPTOMS I had. If they make no comment immediately like " gee I do that too!! " , I let it go. No one really likes to hear about someone else's surgery if it doesn't obviously impact them in some way! hahaha But if they do say " gee that sounds like me " , I mention a few more symptoms. You can usually tell if you are talking to someone who should be hearing what you are saying. If they are, I do go into quite a lot of detail about it. But I never mention that they should do something about it. That is for them to decide for themselves. I just tell them about my own situation and recovery from those symptoms. I may tell them about a few other people I have talked to who then also had the surgery, and if they are interested, they will ask me who I went to to have it checked. THEN I tell them about the process. This works for me because I am really really open about anything I have done, cosmetically or functionally. I don't mind embarassing myself by talking about what is usually a private matter if in doing so someone will get an idea of something to help their own situation. But I also don't tell them initially I think they may have the same problem. If out of the blue, someone mentions symptoms that I KNOW are related and should be looked at promptly, I simply ask them if they have ever discussed this with a professional. If they have, I don't need to say more. If they haven't I will give them more information. If they seem really open, I will tell lots of details and tell them they should see a professional to check it out. But I still don't tell them THEY have a problem! They can decide that for themself when they talk to their professional. Usually telling them your symptoms lets them identify with you and makes them start thinking. If it is someone you know well, it will come up more than once over a period of time as they start thinking about it. If it is someone you don't know well and it is an obvious problem, you might be a little more aggressive with your explanation. This is just a suggestion. I think it would have been soooooooooo much better to have done this years ago, like you said, before you had spent money fixing dental work that now is worthless. And I would have liked to have extra years of enjoying what it is going to be like having a functional mouth for the first time in my life! If the person has a more minimal problem though, I would take a much easier approach. It is a difficult call to share this kind of information, but I think it is kinder to do SOMETHING, even if it is wrong or taken badly. That said, if you are mentioning your own SYMPTOMS or the symptoms of someone you know who has a similar problem to the person you are talking with, you can navigate without appearing overly intrusive. I love this post! Fran > > > > > > I know a few people whom I figure could benefit from this surgery > > > (underbites are the easiest to tell), but I would never, ever tell > > > them. > I agree with the member here that says it's really not > > your business. > > > > ## On the other hand, there are people who could benefit that may > > not know about it and may not otherwise find out. I'm actually a > > perfect example of this. My family dentists over the years have had > > to see how off my bite is, but none of them has ever mentioned it. > > I've had work done, I've had x-rays and nobody ever even recommended > > orthodontia, let alone surgery. When I decided on my own to see an > > orthodontist about slight crowding, I found out that surgery was an > > option to permanently fix my bite. Until I saw that orthodontist, I > > didn't even know I have a problem with my bite! I don't think I'd > > have been offended or upset if someone had suggested tactfully to me > > that I might look into surgery for my problem. I think I might have > > appreciated knowing about this years ago. > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Fran, " How can you go half a century without hearing this at some point and time? " One reason, Fran, is that the technologies have become so vastly improved, even in the last 10 or 15 years, that the procedures are more generally available than they once were. When surgeons had to use open incisions, and keep people in the hospital for a week or more, infection was a huge threat. They were more likely to reserve these procedures for people whose needs were severe. Now, with the development of rigid internal fixation with titanium screws and plates (or, experimentally, even resorbable polymers) the surgeries are easier -- for both docs and patients -- and the procedures are more widely available to resolve problems that are less severe. They can now do the whole thing with either almost or totally incisions within the mouth, so one doesn't have those great gaping incisions. They are also easier and much less risky. At least so i have been told. (If you know anybody who's had a laparascopic gall bladder procedure, and anybody who had one done the old-fashioned way, you'll see what I'm talking about. Same is true with hernia repair, and removal of kidney, and probably a lot of other procedures, too.) In addition, back when I had ortho in the 1950s, orthodontists didn't understand as much as we know now about the importance of matching the jaws. Both my ortho and my surgeon told me they understood exactly what my first ortho had done, in pulling my front teeth back from the overjet, and raking them in. " I'd have done the same thing, " both of them told me. " Back then, we just unravelled things and said 'we're done,' " my surgeon said. (Actually, back then, if he was more than a twinkle in his papa's eye, he was in diapers, but never mind that -- increasingly that's true of all my docs, and Judith Viorst has a very funny poem about turning her life over to a bunch of kids with initials behind their names. Thing is, these " kids " are much more knowledgeable, more communicative, more likely to involve their patients in their own care, etc., etc. Much better deal for both patients and docs, I think!) Regards, cammie > > Hi Tova, > I am one of the people who apparently had a major problem with my > jaw but I never had a clue until a few weeks ago. I have had > regular dental visits 2x/year forever. I have NEVER EVER heard > anything about this. When our old dentist retired, the new dentist > immediately informed me of the problem. I had all these symptoms, > but had no clue they were related to an underlying condition. He > knew the first time he saw me. Before I opened my mouth! > > I thought maybe he was mistaken, even though when I tipped my head > back and looked in a mirror, I could see what he was talking about. > And though I DO now know people eat usually with food IN their mouth > not from their cheeks (I swear I didn't know you are supposed to eat > with food actually IN your mouth), but the orthodontists I have > since been to (so far - I still have 2 more consults to go), agreed > as soon as they looked at me when they walked in the room. > Apparently it is the length of my face from where my nose meets my > face to the chin above the chin pad that tips them off. Now I see > it with other people too! All the time! I must admit I don't see > see people with as small of lower face length as I have. But now I > notice the bite patterns you have been mentioning here on the board > too! And I see this everywhere. I had no idea this was such a > common problem. Why don't people know about this? How can you go > half a century without hearing this at some point and time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Fran, Thanks for posting your story... That is how I go about mentioning it to others... gauging what they wanna hear by their interest and questions. I am also more than happy to share all the gory details with anyone who'll hear them. I am only 8 days post-op and returned to work yesterday. Everyone wanted to know what happened and I just sat and told all the details until they told me they could not listen to to my mumbling for another minute... I think they were nervous something in my mouth would break. Unless it was my bad breath... (Any hints on how to deal with THAT??) About 2 years ago,, right after I got on my braces, I went out to drinks with a friend, her boyfriend, and a friend of his. The friend was nice and we chatted for a while. I have a boyfriend so it was just casual conversation. He was a 27 year old Criminal Trial Attorney (imagine how much self-confidence THAT requires!) who grew up in NY and had been orthodontically treated for his underdeveloped jaw by having his top teeth yanked back. He had beautifully straight, white teeth which were all very recessed from where they should have been. I did mention the surgery to him (as my own situation) and he listened... he'd never heard of it and didn't ask too many questions but listened. We said goodnight and I've never seen him since (my friend no longer dates his friend) Since my surgery, I can't get this guy out of my head. He was so nice- not arrogant or cocky- and probably would benefit greatly from the surgery. I have day dreams of running into him in the street with my post-surgery face and seeing if he ever looked into it. I know I'm not the world's savior, but I feel like I've discovered something here that is like a gold-mine no-one knows about! -Tova > > Fran, > > " How can you go half a century without hearing this at some point and > time? " > > One reason, Fran, is that the technologies have become so vastly > improved, even in the last 10 or 15 years, that the procedures are > more generally available than they once were. > > When surgeons had to use open incisions, and keep people in the > hospital for a week or more, infection was a huge threat. They were > more likely to reserve these procedures for people whose needs were > severe. > > Now, with the development of rigid internal fixation with titanium > screws and plates (or, experimentally, even resorbable polymers) the > surgeries are easier -- for both docs and patients -- and the > procedures are more widely available to resolve problems that are > less severe. They can now do the whole thing with either almost or > totally incisions within the mouth, so one doesn't have those great > gaping incisions. They are also easier and much less risky. At least > so i have been told. > > (If you know anybody who's had a laparascopic gall bladder procedure, > and anybody who had one done the old-fashioned way, you'll see what > I'm talking about. Same is true with hernia repair, and removal of > kidney, and probably a lot of other procedures, too.) > > In addition, back when I had ortho in the 1950s, orthodontists didn't > understand as much as we know now about the importance of matching > the jaws. Both my ortho and my surgeon told me they understood > exactly what my first ortho had done, in pulling my front teeth back > from the overjet, and raking them in. " I'd have done the same thing, " > both of them told me. " Back then, we just unravelled things and > said 'we're done,' " my surgeon said. (Actually, back then, if he was > more than a twinkle in his papa's eye, he was in diapers, but never > mind that -- increasingly that's true of all my docs, and Judith > Viorst has a very funny poem about turning her life over to a bunch > of kids with initials behind their names. Thing is, these " kids " are > much more knowledgeable, more communicative, more likely to involve > their patients in their own care, etc., etc. Much better deal for > both patients and docs, I think!) > > Regards, > > cammie > > > > > > Hi Tova, > > I am one of the people who apparently had a major problem with my > > jaw but I never had a clue until a few weeks ago. I have had > > regular dental visits 2x/year forever. I have NEVER EVER heard > > anything about this. When our old dentist retired, the new dentist > > immediately informed me of the problem. I had all these symptoms, > > but had no clue they were related to an underlying condition. He > > knew the first time he saw me. Before I opened my mouth! > > > > I thought maybe he was mistaken, even though when I tipped my head > > back and looked in a mirror, I could see what he was talking > about. > > And though I DO now know people eat usually with food IN their > mouth > > not from their cheeks (I swear I didn't know you are supposed to > eat > > with food actually IN your mouth), but the orthodontists I have > > since been to (so far - I still have 2 more consults to go), agreed > > as soon as they looked at me when they walked in the room. > > Apparently it is the length of my face from where my nose meets my > > face to the chin above the chin pad that tips them off. Now I see > > it with other people too! All the time! I must admit I don't see > > see people with as small of lower face length as I have. But now I > > notice the bite patterns you have been mentioning here on the board > > too! And I see this everywhere. I had no idea this was such a > > common problem. Why don't people know about this? How can you go > > half a century without hearing this at some point and time? > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hi Tova and Cammie, Thank you both for replying. Tova, I love the story about dinner with your friend's friend. It is funny how little moments like this stick in our mind and can even influence how we speak to others in the future. I have had that with another procedure I have had, and when you spark a light in someone, you have to wonder if they make the same life changing decision as you have made. It is a type of empathy I think. We know what a change it can or has made for us, and we hope they will have a similar positive situation in their life. I hope you do run into him sometime. Even if he hasn't taken this up for himself, perhaps seeing you might get him going! Thank you Cammie for sharing the information about the changes in this field. I am really new to this, and that goes a long way to explaining why it was never brought up before. I have never had orthodontia and my teeth are straight and even. This is a jaw problem, and probably wouldn't have been a candidate even though it is a real problem for me. But it wouldn't be so serious that I would consider open incisions and all! I do think though, that some of our initial care providers, our regular dentists, may not all have a good idea of what to do for unusual jaw situations either. For me, I guess it was lucky for me that my new dentist is able to address it now, and some of the problems I have can be alievitated. Thank you again! Fran > > > > > > Hi Tova, > > > I am one of the people who apparently had a major problem with my > > > jaw but I never had a clue until a few weeks ago. I have had > > > regular dental visits 2x/year forever. I have NEVER EVER heard > > > anything about this. When our old dentist retired, the new dentist > > > immediately informed me of the problem. I had all these symptoms, > > > but had no clue they were related to an underlying condition. He > > > knew the first time he saw me. Before I opened my mouth! > > > > > > I thought maybe he was mistaken, even though when I tipped my head > > > back and looked in a mirror, I could see what he was talking > > about. > > > And though I DO now know people eat usually with food IN their > > mouth > > > not from their cheeks (I swear I didn't know you are supposed to > > eat > > > with food actually IN your mouth), but the orthodontists I have > > > since been to (so far - I still have 2 more consults to go), agreed > > > as soon as they looked at me when they walked in the room. > > > Apparently it is the length of my face from where my nose meets my > > > face to the chin above the chin pad that tips them off. Now I see > > > it with other people too! All the time! I must admit I don't see > > > see people with as small of lower face length as I have. But now I > > > notice the bite patterns you have been mentioning here on the board > > > too! And I see this everywhere. I had no idea this was such a > > > common problem. Why don't people know about this? How can you go > > > half a century without hearing this at some point and time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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