worry free

[Guest guest]

I am 2 yrs out and 128 down. 10 from goal. When I got to the 1/2 cup stage in

the beginning of this journey, I stopped there. I do 1/2 cup 5X a day. I

never have to worry about overeating or stretched stomas I keep hearing everyone

fret about. How do you stretch a stoma any way if you take tiny bites and chew

each bite to liquid?

I use moderation eating which means I do not deny myself anything. I have

never been sugar-free. If it is the naughty foods I want then it is a heaping

tablespoon and eat it slowly like it was the last taste of food on earth.

I had an endoscopy done for acid check and had them take a pix of the pouch.

My surgeon tells me it is barely bigger than when he first made it.

My tummy tells me when I have had enough and that usually is 1/2 cup. Listen

to your body signs. I can tell when I get close to the 3-4 hour eating time

for I get a sensation, not the hunger pangs of yore, that signals it is time to

refuel. Food has become fuel to me. Doesn't mean it can't taste

wonderful...just it is the fuel to keep my inner furnace burning.

The same thing when I eat. As soon as I feel the sensation, I stop and I may

have a bite or two left. Doesn't matter...I stop. It works for me. I hear

people say they are looking for that full feeling to happen. When it doesn't

they

keep eating. That full feeling was from the old you. After wls that person is

changed.

I wish it worked for everyone for there is no grazing or cravings with eating

every 3-4 hours. Most times I have to force myself. I keep cubes of cheese &

grapes for sugar on hand at all times. Plan my meals the night before to

eliminate the guess work each day. Becomes second nature after a while.

After hearing the many stories about overeating still, grazing and

craving...it makes me sad for those who have not changed their old habits. I

retrained

my brain, you can make it as easy or as hard depending on how willing you are

to want to change, to accept this new way of eating for there isn't any kind of

food in this world that would make me go back to 282 lbs.

Sandi

[Guest guest]

You measure EVERY thing you eat to be sure its no more than 1/2 cup?

This is at every meal? Do you literally take out the 1/2 cup measure and put

everythign in it and thats how you eat?

And when its gone its gone?

Thanks

Post Lap RNY 2/21/02

-130#

[Guest guest]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dave, for inserting some much-needed balance

into this debate.

Carol A

---------------------------------------

In a message dated 7/29/2003 7:32:42 AM Central Daylight Time,

YahooDave@... writes:

>

> Sandi,

>

> The stoma, according to my surgeon, has a natural tendency to become as

> large as the piece of intestine that is attached to the pouch. The " hole "

> wants to become as large as the " pipe " it's attached to.

>

> With all due respect, I don't believe anyone who is MO can " re-train " their

> brain. The surgery and all of the complex notional feedback, hormones, new

> plumbing helps re-train the brain. If you can re-train the brain, why have

> surgery?

>

> I am thrilled your surgery is successful. Mine is very successful as well;

> I have no problem with regain and am in better shape than the vast majority

> of 50 year olds I know and see.

>

> Your post has an " edge " to it......that people who are struggling just don't

> have the moral fiber that more successful people have, and that reeks of the

> old " push away from the table " mentality that makes many people feel like

> crap about themselves all over again.

>

> From reading these posts for many years or now, some people have better

> results than others, and I don't think any of us know for sure why that

> happens. Probably many reasons.

>

> I get a HUGE kick out of being appreciative of the " grace " present in my

> life that has given me relief. The only credit I take is enjoying the hell

> out of it.

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's important to remember that we are all different. I cannot eat

ANY sugar or I get out of control with carb and sugar cravings. It just

isn't worth it to me. I don't dump, I just hate the carb monster.

I find that I can sometimes get self-righteous about the sugar thing, but

then I have to remember that everyone is not as sensitive to sugar as I am.

I have maintained my weight loss at 130 for two years. I am still learning

what works and doesn't work, and that changes over time as my body adjusts

and tries to compensate for the changes.

I notice you don't mention anything about protein and vitamins. For me,

that is the key. If I slack off on either of those things, I feel horrible,

my labs look bad, I'm hungry all the time and I have trouble maintaining my

weight.

Also, as far as I know, there is no correlation between stuffing oneself and

having a relaxed stoma. It is more related to the surgery than to the

patient.

I think it's great that you have found a way that works for you. Everyone's

surgery is different, and every person's body is different.

Best wishes for you continued success.

Barbara Jean

worry free

> I am 2 yrs out and 128 down. 10 from goal. When I got to the 1/2 cup stage

in

> the beginning of this journey, I stopped there. I do 1/2 cup 5X a day. I

> never have to worry about overeating or stretched stomas I keep hearing

everyone

> fret about. How do you stretch a stoma any way if you take tiny bites and

chew

> each bite to liquid?

> I use moderation eating which means I do not deny myself anything. I have

> never been sugar-free. If it is the naughty foods I want then it is a

heaping

> tablespoon and eat it slowly like it was the last taste of food on earth.

> I had an endoscopy done for acid check and had them take a pix of the

pouch.

> My surgeon tells me it is barely bigger than when he first made it.

> My tummy tells me when I have had enough and that usually is 1/2 cup.

Listen

> to your body signs. I can tell when I get close to the 3-4 hour eating

time

> for I get a sensation, not the hunger pangs of yore, that signals it is

time to

> refuel. Food has become fuel to me. Doesn't mean it can't taste

> wonderful...just it is the fuel to keep my inner furnace burning.

> The same thing when I eat. As soon as I feel the sensation, I stop and I

may

> have a bite or two left. Doesn't matter...I stop. It works for me. I hear

> people say they are looking for that full feeling to happen. When it

doesn't they

> keep eating. That full feeling was from the old you. After wls that person

is

> changed.

> I wish it worked for everyone for there is no grazing or cravings with

eating

> every 3-4 hours. Most times I have to force myself. I keep cubes of cheese

&

> grapes for sugar on hand at all times. Plan my meals the night before to

> eliminate the guess work each day. Becomes second nature after a while.

> After hearing the many stories about overeating still, grazing and

> craving...it makes me sad for those who have not changed their old habits.

I retrained

> my brain, you can make it as easy or as hard depending on how willing you

are

> to want to change, to accept this new way of eating for there isn't any

kind of

> food in this world that would make me go back to 282 lbs.

> Sandi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/2003 3:39:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tuesdynite@... writes:

> In addition to the seratonin issue, there is also the insulin resistance --

>

> which sends those " feed me " signals all the time. Those who don't have it

> have

> no idea what it's like to try and ignore it. I suspect the gal who retrained

>

> her brain so easily probably had neither that nor the food addiction.

>

>

Many scientist believe the message never gets from our stomach to our brain

that we are full. Nature demands that we eat, breathe, drink fluids, blink our

eyes etc. If our brain does not know we are full, it demands us to eat just

like it demands us to breathe. It is our choice what we eat and what we

breathe. Nature does not demand that we breathe cigarette smoke nor eat and

overabundance of carbs. We do the carbs because we believe it will calm the

beast.

I do love a heated discussion.

Fay Bayuk

**300/168

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

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[Guest guest]

Amen on this one!

I think of it this way: at least an alcoholic doesn't need to consume alcohol

to survive. We do need to eat some amount of food to get the basic needs just

to live. Once the door is open, control becomes a big issue. There are days

when I look back and can't even remember what or how much I ate-just lost

track....who knows. It is a lifetime occupation to stay on our toes and fight

the battle. NOT the easy way out, to be sure, and definitely challenging-but

worth it.

Sue in AK

Re: worry free

>

> > After hearing the many stories about overeating still, grazing and

> > craving...it makes me sad for those who have not changed their

> old habits.

> I retrained

> > my brain, you can make it as easy or as hard depending on how

> willing you

> are

> > to want to change, to accept this new way of eating for there

> isn't any

> kind of

> > food in this world that would make me go back to 282 lbs.

>

> None of us want to go back. You need to understand that there is a big

> difference between just changing a habit and breaking an

> addiction. For

> those of us who are truly addicted to food, it's not as simple as

> you make

> it sound. And to make it sound like it is that simple lays a guilt

> trip on

> those who can't just stop.

>

> I will say it again and keep saying it -- food addiction is not

> simply over

> eating, and has nothing to do with the taste of food or the love

> of food. It

> is a psychological AND physical addiction, just like alcohol.

> drugs, or

> smoking. Eating releases seratonins. In some of us, it releases a

> lot of

> them, and we use this to relieve stress, to get over emotional

> highs and

> lows, just to cope. Leaving food alone becomes " not an option, "

> because then

> the seratonin drops and we are back in the emotional pit. It is

> the same

> physical reaction as that next drink the alcoholic doesn't need,

> the next

> hit off a joint, that cigarette that is so desperately needed

> after the

> nicotine of the last one starts to wane. It's complex, and

> frightening, and

> for all of us our greatest fear is that we will out-eat our tools

> and go

> back to our old weights.

>

> If I could train myself to eat 1/2 cup of food a given number of

> times a

> day, I would never have seen 415 pounds. I'm glad you can do this.

> But it's

> not possible for everyone, at least not without years of therapy and

> probably antidepressants.

>

> ~~ Lyn G

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/30/2003 1:01:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,

nanpug@... writes:

> I think the physical probably came first and then REALLY screwed

> up the mental

Absolutely, . Years ago my Doc was at a meeting where a Doc was proving

with charts that depression caused arthritis. The charts showed the high

percentage of arthritis suffers who are depressed. Another doc stood and said

yes, people with arthritis GET depressed.

Fay Bayuk

**300/168

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

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[Guest guest]

................and when you DO all that, and you STILL don't lose, then what

???..........

Carol A

------------------------------

In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:15:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

packederm@... writes:

> >So, the responsibility falls back on me. I MUST diet to lose or

> >maintain. I must stay away from my cycle/binge foods, I must take my

> >supplements and each meal must have a beginning and an end, I must

> >drink enough water and eat protein first. I must not drink with

> >meals and I MUST (GASP)EXERCISE daily for 40-50 minutes.

> >

> >Just my experience and 2cents.

> >

> >Rita

> >Open Proximal RNY 3/31/94

[Guest guest]

Les~

I can only speak for me. I have suffered depression my entire life. Coming

from and abusive background...that was the beginning. Gaining weight

certainly didn't help my depression, but was not the main cause of it. I also

have a

strong family history of bi-polar disease....and severe depression problems.

Whether it was environmental, or genetic...well, I think it was probably both.

When I gained all the weight...it was the death knell to my mental health.

But certainly was NOT the main reason for my depression. We are living in

times, too, that are very conducive to depression. Mine was Clinical, or major

depression, not something to be messed with. I don't think everyone that goes

through feelings of sadness or feelings of being down now and then should be

medicated. I think this should be done only for people that have the chemical

imbalance, and have it long term. I think we need to keep an eye on the

charlatans and snake oil salesmen that are selling pills...and ask ourselves is

this truly necessary? Why am I being prescribed antidepressants? Do I spend

most of my life in the dumps, or even circling the drain that sucks us down into

the pit of mental illness? Or, do I just have the blues? Everyone has the

blues from time to time, and this doesn't warrant medications, in my not so

humble opinion. While obesity can bring on depression...I think there are more

underlying causes than just our body size.

Regards~

Jacque

> When I first started actively researching WLS, I was amazed at the

> number of people on depression meds. I still believe theses meds are

> dispersed far to easily, which leads to my question...Are we fat

> because we're depressed or are we depressed because we're fat?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nobody could have said it better! 10 years post op from a distal, I agree.

Sue in AK

Re: worry free

> I read this email and knew things would start flying...

>

> I really don't want anyone who has had success in the wt loss and

> retraining themselves to leave the list nor do I want anyone having

> real issues with wt regain or losing too much wt to leave. WE have a

> ton of lurkers here, preop and new post ops who need to know this

> stuff.

>

> Me? I am not one of the fortunate few. I have had no problems

> physically but gads my old demons came back after the 2nd year post

> op. The dramatic size changes stopped, the big losses and all of a

> sudden everyone around me had better things to do than to notice the

> new me. It was now the norm. What do we do when everydayness sets

> in??? For me it was back to the old comfort to handle things. Food,

> and guess what, even if you graze on healthy foods the wt will come

> back. Many of us have had a rude awakening.

>

> So, the responsibility falls back on me. I MUST diet to lose or

> maintain. I must stay away from my cycle/binge foods, I must take my

> supplements and each meal must have a beginning and an end, I must

> drink enough water and eat protein first. I must not drink with

> meals and I MUST (GASP)EXERCISE daily for 40-50 minutes.

>

> Just my experience and 2cents.

>

> Rita

> Open Proximal RNY 3/31/94

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Then you blame your parents. LOL. But I'm only slightly kidding.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this (very hot) thread is

genetics. I refuse to believe that retraining your brain is the be

all end all to weight loss. I was overweight from birth, was put on

my first medically supervised diet at 8 years old, dieted and

struggled to stay under 200 pounds all through high school. Spent a

ton of money and damn near killed myself exercising in my mid

twenties so that I wouldn't be fat for my wedding. I got down to a

135# size 8 and within 4 years, after my 1st son was born, I was at

260....and I fought to keep it that low. If I'm not retrained after

all of that...it ain't happenin! I know how to eat. I know what's

healthy. I was not brought up in an environment where unhealthy

eating habits were encouraged. I have fat genes and a sluggish

metabolism and I cannot eat a " normal " amount of food. I maintain my

current weight (within 5 pounds)on less than 1200 calories a day.

That is not a " normal " amount of food and I'm still 20 - 25 pounds

from goal.

My mother is skinny. My sister was skinny (until late 20's when hit

with thyroid disease and PCOS). My brother is skinny (different

father). My father is MO, his father was MO, his brother is obese,

his mother is obese, his sister is obese (she yo-yo's badly and is

currently overweight but not obese). There is not a thin person on

that side of the family. I was raised by my mother who, after

putting the whole family on Weight Watchers when I was 8 because I

had to do it, still follows the WW plan even though she doesn't need

to. We were always on a diet because of me and she just got used to

it.

Now after having 2 children, it has become very obvious that it is

possible for the evil fat genes to be selective and not blanket every

child. My first son looks like his father and has his genes. He's

tall and thin (9 years old) and will probably never have a problem.

My (almost) 7 month old is me all over...even down to the blonde hair

(I was tow headed as a baby but my husband has black hair and olive

skin). He's a chub! He's falls in the 95 percentile for height but

is off the charts for weight at almost 23 pounds at 6 months. He has

a normal eating schedule and is very active. He will have a

problem. Do you know how heart breaking it is to feel like you

should be restricting the food intake of an infant! The DR keeps

telling me not to worry about it but the DR has never been MO and

probably wasn't a fat kid that came home a cried every day because he

was teased!

No, I could not have gotten MO without food and I did not restrain

myself from overeating, but until the " experts " can explain why 2

sibling with the same parents and the same food presented to them can

be so vastly different I will continue to place a least partial blame

on genetics.

Thanks for hanging on if you got this far.

Debbie in VA

> ...............and when you DO all that, and you STILL don't lose,

then what

> ???..........

>

> Carol A

> ------------------------------

>

> In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:15:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

> packederm@g... writes:

>

> > >So, the responsibility falls back on me. I MUST diet to lose or

> > >maintain. I must stay away from my cycle/binge foods, I must

take my

> > >supplements and each meal must have a beginning and an end, I

must

> > >drink enough water and eat protein first. I must not drink with

> > >meals and I MUST (GASP)EXERCISE daily for 40-50 minutes.

> > >

> > >Just my experience and 2cents.

> > >

> > >Rita

> > >Open Proximal RNY 3/31/94

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe that those of us who are fat and depressed and on meds are

" neurologically challenged " . I came to this conclusion with the

assistance of my therapist, so I'm not just pulling this out of my

hiney. Maybe she did, but hey...

The main function of many anti-depressants is to correct deficiencies in

serotonin release/reuptake.

Eating carbs (a lot of ppl's drug of choice) releases serotonin in the

body, making you feel better/numbing up whatever stress is bugging you

at the time. And making you fat in no time flat, esp if you are insulin

resistant at the same time.

Soooo... theoretically, if you get on the right meds, and get your

serotonin on track it can be helpful.

Breaking a lifetime of habits though is a whole other story... I'm

living through this right now. I feel a ton better on

Prozac/Wellbutrin, but I still struggle not to fall back into old habits

when the pressure is on!

Re: worry free

When I first started actively researching WLS, I was amazed at the

number of people on depression meds. I still believe theses meds are

dispersed far to easily, which leads to my question...Are we fat

because we're depressed or are we depressed because we're fat?

[Guest guest]

Couldn't agree with you more! Even with my Wellbutrin & Serzone, I

have days that life, work, people, etc...try their best to ruin my

good intentions. I wanna snag a big ol' bag of chips and veg out.

Not so easy some days to toss those old habits out the window!

Reba

> Breaking a lifetime of habits though is a whole other story... I'm

> living through this right now. I feel a ton better on

> Prozac/Wellbutrin, but I still struggle not to fall back into old

habits

> when the pressure is on!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Debbie, our stories are somewhat similar. I, too, was a fat child,

and my only sibling, my sister, was always skinny. My first diet

memories were of being put on amphetamines at 8 years old and telling

my mother they made me feel funny and made my hands shake.

It wasn't until I was started researching WLS at 45 years of age that

I had an epiphany which cemented my decision to have WLS. My mother

told me a story about when I was 2 years old, and we had stopped for

dinner at a restaurant. She ordered me the child's platter which, in

those days, consisted of a hamburger, FF, lettuce, tomato, pickles,

cole slaw, you name it. Well, this baby ate the entire thing, every

damned edible morsel on that plate! My mother said the waitress even

made a comment about it. Well, what this told me was that whatever

signal is supposed to go from the stomach to the brain saying " I'm

full " or even " I'm no longer hungry " is either broken or just plain

missing. This is when I finally knew that it wasn't my fault, that

there's something not working here, and although most of us have more

willpower in our little fingers than thin people could ever hope to

have, we will never feel sated or full eating small or " normal " size

portions without either drug therapy or sugical intervention.

I also know when I hear newbies complain about never having

that " full " feeling that they, too, probably have this same chemical

imbalance. And, what those of us who don't feel full are forced to

learn in its place, is to accept the feeling that we are simply no

longer hungry. It's a very different feeling than satiety, but with

the surgical negative reinforcement (aka throwing up), we force

ourselves to understand the signals, most of the time. The problem

is that when we don't feel satisfied, we are forced to just " push

away from the table " in order to not throw up. That's why it's so

very hard to stop eating when something is really good, and often, I

don't, and suffer the consequences. But, without the surgery, I

would never be able to stop at the " no longer hungry " feeling

forever. It is simply not a realistic expectation when a typical

meal doesn't satisfy the hunger.

Whew! Did any of that make sense?

in NJ

******************************

>>

> No, I could not have gotten MO without food and I did not restrain

> myself from overeating, but until the " experts " can explain why 2

> sibling with the same parents and the same food presented to them

can be so vastly different I will continue to place a least partial

blame on genetics.

>

> Debbie in VA

[Guest guest]

Wow. what is it about our childhood? It can't be all environment or poor

eating habits. There has to be something genetic there too. Look at the

number of twins separated at birth who are both obese.

I know I was chubby as a child but also I can remember going to my aunt's

house and when she left the room sneaking bread and butter into my mouth...

just stuffing it in. And she caught me and I was so ashamed. This was

before kindergarten so the oldest I could have been was 4.

I have always thought that is a combination of different factors. One factor

that I think has something to do with it for me ... is an oral fixation.

(Freud would have a field day with this) When I was newborn my mother tried

to breast feed me but was unable to produce enough milk. Everyone kept

telling her no bottles, no water, etc. Apparently she developed a sore from

my vigorous sucking and I got very sick. I will spare you the details of

what this 6 week old baby was doing...

At that point the doctor said I was literally starving to death and put me

on formula. When I reached that age where babies throw their bottles so

someone will pick it up, my mom took mine away thinking I didn't want it

anymore and put me on the cup. She said I was about 6 months old. In my

mind, a baby still needs to be sucking at that stage. My brother did

something similar and both of us developed the habit of subconsciously

" sucking " on our tongues when we were tired. (and boy were we made fun of)

The other two boys were on the bottle longer and never developed the habit.

Since WLS it seems I always want to have something to drink and I am always

drinking through a straw. I swear the old sucking instinct is still there.

That's one reason it has been so hard for me to go through eating without

drinking for 1/2 hour. I want that drink.

I think it is all so complicated with many factors but I do believe that

further research is going to reveal more and more something in our genes.

BE. from NJ

Re: worry free

> Debbie, our stories are somewhat similar. I, too, was a fat child,

> and my only sibling, my sister, was always skinny. My first diet

> memories were of being put on amphetamines at 8 years old and telling

> my mother they made me feel funny and made my hands shake.

>

> It wasn't until I was started researching WLS at 45 years of age that

> I had an epiphany which cemented my decision to have WLS. My mother

> told me a story about when I was 2 years old, and we had stopped for

> dinner at a restaurant. She ordered me the child's platter which, in

> those days, consisted of a hamburger, FF, lettuce, tomato, pickles,

> cole slaw, you name it. Well, this baby ate the entire thing, every

> damned edible morsel on that plate! My mother said the waitress even

> made a comment about it. Well, what this told me was that whatever

> signal is supposed to go from the stomach to the brain saying " I'm

> full " or even " I'm no longer hungry " is either broken or just plain

> missing. This is when I finally knew that it wasn't my fault, that

> there's something not working here, and although most of us have more

> willpower in our little fingers than thin people could ever hope to

> have, we will never feel sated or full eating small or " normal " size

> portions without either drug therapy or sugical intervention.

>

> I also know when I hear newbies complain about never having

> that " full " feeling that they, too, probably have this same chemical

> imbalance. And, what those of us who don't feel full are forced to

> learn in its place, is to accept the feeling that we are simply no

> longer hungry. It's a very different feeling than satiety, but with

> the surgical negative reinforcement (aka throwing up), we force

> ourselves to understand the signals, most of the time. The problem

> is that when we don't feel satisfied, we are forced to just " push

> away from the table " in order to not throw up. That's why it's so

> very hard to stop eating when something is really good, and often, I

> don't, and suffer the consequences. But, without the surgery, I

> would never be able to stop at the " no longer hungry " feeling

> forever. It is simply not a realistic expectation when a typical

> meal doesn't satisfy the hunger.

>

> Whew! Did any of that make sense?

>

> in NJ

> ******************************

>

>

> >>

> > No, I could not have gotten MO without food and I did not restrain

> > myself from overeating, but until the " experts " can explain why 2

> > sibling with the same parents and the same food presented to them

> can be so vastly different I will continue to place a least partial

> blame on genetics.

> >

>

> > Debbie in VA

>

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me too.

Barbara Jean

Re: worry free

> Carol~

> I believe within myself that this is a definite possibility. Why would

your

> body work to get nutrients that it is already getting? Makes a lot of

sense

> to me. And doing this cannot hurt in any way...so why not bath your body

in

> nutrients...and see. We need more anecdotal evidence that this is

true....but

> so far...I'm a believer!

>

> Regards~

>

> Jacque

> > Is there any truth or possibility that the body creates regeneration

> > because it is not getting the essential norishment it needs. Is it

> > possible to stop the body from compensating so much by drinking more

> > protein shakes and/or taking excellent sources of vitamins and

> > minerals? Does it even aid in hindering regeneration to give the

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol A didn't lose because of a documented mechanical problem with her

surgery. She did everything right. That is mightly frustrating to say the

least.

Barbara Jean

Re: worry free

> Then you blame your parents. LOL. But I'm only slightly kidding.

> One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this (very hot) thread is

> genetics. I refuse to believe that retraining your brain is the be

> all end all to weight loss. I was overweight from birth, was put on

> my first medically supervised diet at 8 years old, dieted and

> struggled to stay under 200 pounds all through high school. Spent a

> ton of money and damn near killed myself exercising in my mid

> twenties so that I wouldn't be fat for my wedding. I got down to a

> 135# size 8 and within 4 years, after my 1st son was born, I was at

> 260....and I fought to keep it that low. If I'm not retrained after

> all of that...it ain't happenin! I know how to eat. I know what's

> healthy. I was not brought up in an environment where unhealthy

> eating habits were encouraged. I have fat genes and a sluggish

> metabolism and I cannot eat a " normal " amount of food. I maintain my

> current weight (within 5 pounds)on less than 1200 calories a day.

> That is not a " normal " amount of food and I'm still 20 - 25 pounds

> from goal.

>

> My mother is skinny. My sister was skinny (until late 20's when hit

> with thyroid disease and PCOS). My brother is skinny (different

> father). My father is MO, his father was MO, his brother is obese,

> his mother is obese, his sister is obese (she yo-yo's badly and is

> currently overweight but not obese). There is not a thin person on

> that side of the family. I was raised by my mother who, after

> putting the whole family on Weight Watchers when I was 8 because I

> had to do it, still follows the WW plan even though she doesn't need

> to. We were always on a diet because of me and she just got used to

> it.

>

> Now after having 2 children, it has become very obvious that it is

> possible for the evil fat genes to be selective and not blanket every

> child. My first son looks like his father and has his genes. He's

> tall and thin (9 years old) and will probably never have a problem.

> My (almost) 7 month old is me all over...even down to the blonde hair

> (I was tow headed as a baby but my husband has black hair and olive

> skin). He's a chub! He's falls in the 95 percentile for height but

> is off the charts for weight at almost 23 pounds at 6 months. He has

> a normal eating schedule and is very active. He will have a

> problem. Do you know how heart breaking it is to feel like you

> should be restricting the food intake of an infant! The DR keeps

> telling me not to worry about it but the DR has never been MO and

> probably wasn't a fat kid that came home a cried every day because he

> was teased!

>

> No, I could not have gotten MO without food and I did not restrain

> myself from overeating, but until the " experts " can explain why 2

> sibling with the same parents and the same food presented to them can

> be so vastly different I will continue to place a least partial blame

> on genetics.

>

> Thanks for hanging on if you got this far.

> Debbie in VA

>

>

> > ...............and when you DO all that, and you STILL don't lose,

> then what

> > ???..........

> >

> > Carol A

> > ------------------------------

> >

> > In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:15:24 AM Central Daylight Time,

> > packederm@g... writes:

> >

> > > >So, the responsibility falls back on me. I MUST diet to lose or

> > > >maintain. I must stay away from my cycle/binge foods, I must

> take my

> > > >supplements and each meal must have a beginning and an end, I

> must

> > > >drink enough water and eat protein first. I must not drink with

> > > >meals and I MUST (GASP)EXERCISE daily for 40-50 minutes.

> > > >

> > > >Just my experience and 2cents.

> > > >

> > > >Rita

> > > >Open Proximal RNY 3/31/94

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I haven't seen mentioned in this (very hot) thread is genetics.

-----------------------------------------------

I usually don't watch shows about obesity. Maybe just another way to

avoid the problem. However, I did catch a bit of a show on the Learning

Channel or Discovery Channel about two months ago and they were

interviewing a psychiatrist after a segment on an extremely obese man.

What she said really hit home and I won't ever forget it, because, to

me, I think she hit the nail on the head.

She said that " genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the

trigger "

Personally, I've always felt it was a combination of the two. There was

a thread last week about people's height and ideal weight. I'm 5'6 and

my ideal weight would be anywhere from 160-180, where someone else who

is 5'6 may have an ideal weight of 120-130. My frame was not meant for

120 lbs. Definitely not in my genetic gene pool. Though I don't remember

my birth mother, I apparently inherited the big ass, short legs and

chubby thighs from my Italian grandmother on my father's side of the

family. : ) Also, my mother (adoptive one) very rarely cooked. She was

overweight and I remember eating Mc's, pizza and TV dinners all

week long. She used to brag about only cooking twice a year, Easter and

Thanksgiving. Though I loved her very much, my poor eating habits

growing up along with my genetic make-up, made for a very large child

and even larger adult.

JMHO.

Regina

[Guest guest]

Wow! She sure did hit the nail on the head!

in NJ

***************************

>>

>

> She said that " genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the

> trigger "

[Guest guest]

Didn't I hear that there's a new governmental committee being

established to fight obesity? I would like to invite them all to

monitor this list. I think they would learn more about this disease

here than anywhere else. But, they'd first have to ignore everything

they've been taught, and approach this disease with an open mind,

eliminating prior prejudices, practices and preconceived notions.

Sadly, most of the medical community suffers from a huge dose of

ignorance.

in NJ

************************

> You know guys, this thread is extremely interesting to me.....

>

> I think that we can glean something really valuable from it. From

a medical standpoint, we all are saying something that bears

investigating...

>

> It seems that all of us in early childhood had a broken switch. We

did not know when to stop eating. We searched for the " full "

feeling. Early on, we ate from head hunger but not for the reasons

that " normal people " eat. Shame and guilt were constant companions

and we all had knowledge of how to ear healthy. I find it ironic

that this broken switch was not fixed until wls.

> Also, to throw another factor into the pot, how many of us pre-wls,

have gone to the doctor with a valid medical complaint that needed

investigating only to be told if we just " lose some weight "

everything would be fine? I know that I have. The fact that I

needed to lose weight was true and very obvious. The other medical

conditions, unless they were major co-morbs, were for the most part,

ignored or dismissed.

>

> I gained a sense of self respect with the weight loss. I also

began to demand that other medical complaints be taken seriously.

Something I could not do before. I take more responsibility for my

health and have learned that there are issues that have to do with

the mechanics of my body and I cannot be blamed for them. I feel

that it is imperative for the medical community to look at the

evidence. More than one person on this list alone, is demonstrating

the same disorders, the same symptoms. What is this saying? How can

we alert others? What do we need to investigate and document for

future potential wls patients? The re-training the brain needs

> go farther than just wls patients. What is it that is being

overlooked?

>

> Just my thoughts!

> Carol

> Richmond, VA

> Open RNY 10/31/97