Re: Re: Hi Randy (Robin)

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Dear Robynn: Thank you for this post. I am going to copy and paste in to a Word .doc because I really connected with it. You have a nice way of writing and I appreciate it. Thanks! Love, Jenn Robynn VanPatten wrote: I think it's a good thing to think about the "whys",to "peel the layers of the onion". And I think youare absolutely right, Lilka...we reach for food forreasons that have nothing to do with real hunger. There are some good books that have been written onthat subject. One that comes to mind is called "LoveHunger". Often we are seeking to fulfill an emotionalneed, when in truth, all we are

doing is anesthesizingour emotions by getting a little serontonin (sp?) rush(or at least, some kind of rush) by getting someglucose in our veins.But, I really think alot of it is as simple as badhabits. I used to pooh pooh people who said that. Ithought they didn't understand the draw that food heldfor me. And, of course, there are times when that drwtowards food is based on any myriad of strongemotions...but more often than not, it is simply amatter of boredom and habitual behaviour that has mereach out for food when I'm not even hungry.I read once that in order to form a habit, you need todo something consistently for 21 days. I've triedthat with the "3 meals a day" thing, and you knowwhat? it works. Initially, you still get that 3 p.m.I need something to get me through the rest of the dayfeeling. After about a week or so, that subsides. Soon

thereafter, you don't even think about it.Now, if I willfully rab something anyway, that badhabit can start up again. It's like and herStarbucks. If she drinks one on Monday, Tuesday andWednesday...she's starting to form a psychologicalhabit already. If, on the other hand, she had one onMonday, and she said, "OK, no more this week." andstuck to it...she might be able to indulge in one ortwo a week without having this driving desire to goback to that evil empire again and again.There are two schools of psychology, as you know (withmany more offshoots). One is Freudian, which tends todelve into earliest childhood memories to discovertrauma, early influence and development, personalityforming experiences. The other is Jungian (correct meif I'm wrong about this, Lilka, it's been a LONGtime), and that really tends to focus on behaviour,and tools that you need to employ in

order to breakcertain behaviorial patterns. It doesn't get into thecomplexities of the whys. It's more of a "fake ituntil you make it" approach. You know, act like athin person, tell yourself that you are a thin person,and thus, you are not someone who eats between meals,that doesn't interest you...and then "JUST DO IT", or"JUST DON'T DO IT" as the case may be.To me, I think there is value in both approaches. But, as someone who has a tendency to contemplate myown belly button and dream and analyze my life away, Ihave found that the second approach is more empoweringfor me. I think some reflection is in order,ABSOLUTELY...but you can spend the next 20 yearsreflecting upon the whys...and still continue to dothe bad behaviour...digging that habit in deeper anddeeper and deeper.So. for me, after having spent many years on thewhys...I found donig the work hat Geneen

Rothadvocates in order to overcome compulsive overeatingvery useful. It's hard to really do it while you aretrying to lose your 10 percent...because essentiallyshe talks about how certain foods are so "taboo" thatthey hold a magnetic appeal. And if you permityourself to eat something if you genuinely craveit...but that you eat slowly and deliberately, and youenjoy it, and when your tastebuds are not longer beingthrilled by every bite, you stop. In essence, you eatuntil your craving stops, but not more than that. Andyou "count the calories" in that it isn't just alittle freeby. Rather, it i part of your daily total,and you take ownership of it.And then you think about whether it was worth it. Wasit worth it to eat a doughnut if as a result, you haveto cut down calories pretty seriously for the rest ofthe day...even if you could have eaten 4 applesinstead?

For you, maybe it is worth it. And if so,fine. Because her theory is that if you eat justwhat your body craves, and the rest of the time, youreally focus on GOOD nutrition (veggies, fruits andproteins), your body will balance.Now, post-surgery, there are certain things that youcan't eat esily...it makes you sick, or you can't getenough nutrition, etc... But, I find that if somethingmakes me sick...I don't crave it anymore. And, nowthat my body is more or less "normal"...I tend to wantgood nutrition. I crave things that are good for me.Not saying I'm perfect, I'm not. I can start up badhabits again. When my French boys were here, I drankevery day, and I drank too much. I also ate out atevery meal. Five days I did that. I gained a lb. I'm back on the wagon, and trying to make sure thenutrition I get into me is good. I'm making sure

I'mgetting my vitamins in, that I'm drinking my water. Idid Pilates on Wednesday and will do it today...afterwork I'm going hiking with a friend, and tomorrow a.m.I'm going to the gym with a friend. Back on track,trying to make sure that my five days don't turn intoa habit and then a lifestyle.It's hard to do the mental work and the habitwork...but both contribute to a successfuljourney...or at least, that's my humble opinion!Robynn --- "Ron H." wrote:---------------------------------Hi Lilka! You really hit on something with me. I amgrazing a lot and I never realized it until I saw myself on thesecurity tape yesterday at work. Geez, it was horrid to watch. Needless to say, that practice has come to a screeching halt. And withthe weather improvements, I'm back to walking to work again.

Thatin itself will help immensely. In the morning, I'll be goingback to Kaiser Napa to visit the "crazy scale", as I so fondly callit. It tends to weigh me at about 2-4 heavier than the scale inRichmond. In any event, we'll see how things work tomorrow. The goodthing is that I've seen [at least some of] the errors of my ways. I'm back on track again and am heading in the right direction.Ron>> Hi there, Randy. This procedure will be no fun. Isend you all my > good wishes and hope for the future. Did you everget my message to > you after we met? To repeat, it was so wonderful tomeet you. You > wrote a message about addiction after that and Inever addressed it. > I did my dissertation on fat and sex and I had

toaddress this > subject myself.You said you did not think thatovereating was an > addiction because we have to eat. But anything canbe an addiction > if you have a dependency on it that is tied to yourfeelings. We > need sex but some people are compulsive about it.Some of us are > compulsive about our eating. We are not hungry, weare just wanting > to pleasure ourselves with the taste of food. Andsometimes no > amount is enough. It may not be a chemical addictionbut it acts on > us the same. I used to go to OA and although I wasan overeater, we > used and found completely relevant the AA stuff. Ieven decided in > the last few years that I was not a compulsiveovereater and I have > to say that for about 10 years, I did not gainweight.(Of course i > almost weighed 300 LBS) But now that my food hasbeen diminished

and > my stomach is so limited, I find myself grazing abit which is not a > good thing. I am wondering why I do this. I keepcherry tomatoes on > the counter and I grab one as I go by. Why? I keepshaved almonds in > a drawer and I grab a small amount as I go by. Why?I keep rye > crackers in the same drawer and grab a few as I goby. Why? Am I > hungry? Maybe. Maybe not, hard to tell. Is this anaddiction? I > think so. Today I put everything away and toldmyself, "3 meals a > day." I know there is an empty part of me that wantsto be filled up > or titilated. Is it an addiction? > I wanted to share these thoughts with you becauseyou are so > elequent and thoughtful. I hope you can read thislong paragraph. > You can answer me whenever you feel better. Love toyou, Randy.

Lilka>