Re: Time to throw in the towel?

[Guest guest]

Lilian,

I'm going to suggest that you post a few days of your food diary for us

to look at and see if we can spot anything that might give a

clue.

I can tell you that while I felt better on SCD, my soft, mushy stool took

quite a bit more time than three months to clear up. Since diarrhea and

constipation are opposite ends of the same spectrum, one might expect the

same to be true of it.

I can also tell you that eliminating most vegetables would do me in -- I

wouldn't go at all, and it would be most uncomfortable.

Sometimes I think that in trying to follow the stages, or in trying to

add multiple other interventions / limitations like yeast prevention, we

actually continue the imbalance in our guts.

I read the Pecanbread list, and help out where I can. But one interesting

theme I've been seeing is that parents are finding that while it takes

longer, eliminating yeast by a balanced diet works better than using

extra strict protocols. Which is to say, some parents eliminated all

fruit and all honey because of the belief that it fed yeast, and found

out that their kids needed these carbs. There's a reason SCD is

structured as a balanced diet -- but it's balance over time, and healing

does take more time than most of us want to give it. My usual line is

" G-d grant me patience... and grant it now! "

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the tips and the info! What is the " focused treatment " mentioned

here? Clearly what I've been doing so far hasn't done the trick. Do antibiotics

do anything to the biofilm?

(still sitting on the prescription for that)

Skipping Larabars, yoghurt and cashew butter; is there *anything* at all I could

eat when I'd like to taste something good? Pre-SCD I'd have a piece of dark

chocolate after dinner.

I feel like my food is so d@#% bland and unsatisfying. I feel like I need

something more both nutritionally and emotionally. I guess if there'd be some

reward in terms of feeling better physically the sacrifices would be easier to

bear, but almost 4 months of eggs, ground beef and small amts of mushy

veggies...it's getting old. SOme small treat that taste good would be good to

have when cravings set in.WOuld be great to hear if there are any other

non-responders out there and how you've handled it.

Lilian

> >>>

> >>>> I'm going to suggest that you post a few days of

> >>>> your food diary for us to look at and see if we

> >>>> can spot anything that might give a clue.

> >>>

> >>> Thank you so much for offering to do this, I'll pots 3 day at the end of

my post.

> >>>

> >>>> I can tell you that while I felt better on SCD,

> >>>> my soft, mushy stool took quite a bit more time

> >>>> than three months to clear up.

> >>>

> >>> My concern is, I haven't really felt better. To be clear, the C isn't my

biggest concern, since at least I can use some form of laxative to help with

that. What bothers me the most is the abdominal distention I get after eating.

I'm happy to report that the stomach discomfort and out-of-control burping has

been all but eliminated since I've been taking HCl before eating (yeah!), but

basically eating makes me look (and feel, to the point of incontinence while

running (sorry abt the TMI, but somehow I suspect on this list details are ok

:^) ) very pregnant. And the fluid retention that goes hand in hand with this.

All in all adding about 6 or more pounds of fluid, gas and C.

> >>>

> >>> Since diarrhea and

> >>>> constipation are opposite ends of the same

> >>>> spectrum, one might expect the same to be true of it.

> >>>

> >>> Absolutely. Pimentel's theory of course is that some bacteria cause D,

some cause C.

> >>>

> >>>> Sometimes I think that in trying to follow the

> >>>> stages, or in trying to add multiple other

> >>>> interventions / limitations like yeast

> >>>> prevention, we actually continue the imbalance in our guts.

> >>>

> >>> This makes so much sense to me, thank you so much for pointing it out.

Instead of " going to war " against symptoms of imbalance one would perhaps be

better off helping elevate the level of health in the body so that it can

restore its homeostasis, including its microbial balance.

> >>>

> >>> It feels like a relief not to think in terms of limiting one's diet more

and more and more, but rather gently lead it towards greater tolerance of the

healthful foods it needs in order to thrive.

> >>>

> >>> And I know that for me, meditation and the other ways of

mentally/emotionall y/spiritually feeling better I mentioned previously are

important for gut health. I'm looking forward to a trip to the Caribbean during

spring break; my gut are always so happy when I spend time in the sun :^).

> >>>

> >>> So here are my past 3 days:

> >>>

> >>> Saturday:

> >>> B; coffee with home-made coconut milk, 2 fried eggs, DCCC

> >>> L: leftover coffee (1/4 cup), yoghurt, apple sauce (felt worse after,

suspect the youghurt)

> >>> D: pork rib tips, squash, well cooked tomato, avocado

> >>> then- in a moment of despair and seized by cravings: one almond flour nut

muffin and cashew butter, scotch on the rocks (haven't had nut muffins in a

loong time)

> >>>

> >>> Sunday:

> >>> B: coffee, banana " pancake " (egg), applesauce, DCCC

> >>> L: chicken soup

> >>> D: ground beef patty, 1/2 avocado, 1/2 tomato, DCCC for taste

> >>>

> >>> Monday

> >>> B: coffe, fried eggs, tomato, avocado

> >>> L: ground beef patty w/ legal mustard, squash, tomato

> >>> snack: small piece of Lara-bar

> >>> D: oven-baked chicken, eggplant, tomato, a few stalks of asparagus, 1/2

teaspoon of cashew-butter (craving something good, some kind of dessert)

> >>>

> >>> The above represents my departure from the candida-precautions I've been

observing lately, as well as my attempt to add a small amount of veggies

throughout the day. Other than that, it's fairly representative of what I've

been eating; meat, eggs, squash forming the bulk of the diet.

> >>>

> >>> For some reason I didn't react well to most of the foods on the original

intro diet (cheesecake, even without honey), chicken soup, carrots, even

yoghurt. Ground beef patties and eggs are the safest bets for me.

> >>>

> >>> Thank you so much for offering to take a look at this, thank so much to

all who replied, I value your help more than you know!

> >>>

> >>> Lilian

> >>> " IBS " -C

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

At 10:33 PM 2/4/2010, you wrote:

Skipping Larabars, yoghurt and

cashew butter; is there *anything* at all I could eat when I'd like to

taste something good? Pre-SCD I'd have a piece of dark chocolate after

dinner.

I take about three pecan halves and squish a pitted date around them. You

could do this with pecan butter if you don't think whole nuts are a good

idea just yet.

I feel like my food is so d@#%

bland and unsatisfying. I feel like I need something more both

nutritionally and emotionally. I guess if there'd be some reward in terms

of feeling better physically the sacrifices would be easier to bear, but

almost 4 months of eggs, ground beef and small amts of mushy

veggies...it's getting old. SOme small treat that taste good would be

good to have when cravings set in.WOuld be great to hear if there are any

other non-responders out there and how you've handled

it.

What kinds of things di8d you like to eat before SCD that did not include

starch and sugar?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

> Thanks for the tips and the info! What is the " focused treatment " mentioned

here? Clearly what I've been doing so far hasn't done the trick. Do antibiotics

do anything to the biofilm?

> (still sitting on the prescription for that)

>

> Skipping Larabars, yoghurt and cashew butter; is there *anything* at all I

could eat when I'd like to taste something good? Pre-SCD I'd have a piece of

dark chocolate after dinner.

Lemon meringue pie - or just the custard part.

Since you can eat eggs and coconut milk:

http://flog.cookingforceliacscolitiscrohnsandibs.com/category/coconut-milk/

The peach coconut custard is particularly delicious, and substitute

a fruit you can use, if there is a fruit you can eat - probably of the berry

variety or cherries are easiest with least fructose.

>

> I feel like my food is so d@#% bland and unsatisfying

It doesn't have to be bland - add herbs and spices and butter and make it really

good. SCD food

can be delicious. Can you eat onions and/or garlic?

When I started out, I had delicious veggie/herb omelets every morning.

Can you eat smoked salmon? That's yum, too.

> . I feel like I need something more both nutritionally and emotionally. I

guess if there'd be some reward in terms of feeling better physically the

sacrifices would be easier to bear, but almost 4 months of eggs, ground beef and

small amts of mushy veggies...it's getting old. SOme small treat that taste

good would be good to have when cravings set in.WOuld be great to hear if there

are any other non-responders out there and how you've handled it.

Mara

[Guest guest]

> Thanks for the tips and the info! What is the " focused treatment " mentioned

here?

Haven't gone. So I don't know. But if you look at the website,

you can get a sense that they target these kind of things through

whatever meds and therapies they have at their facilities.

> Clearly what I've been doing so far hasn't done the trick. Do antibiotics do

anything to the biofilm?

No, not yet. The biofilm pretty much protects them from the

antibiotics - or they go dormant or something, depending on

which one they are.

Depending if your problem is yeast or pathogenic bacteria, you need

an anti-biofilm agent. For yeast, people use candex or candidase and

s. boulardii, for pathogenic bacteria, I'm not sure. I saw one recently, but

I don't have the link at hand.

Read this:

http://pecanbread.com/new/yeast.html

particularly Sheila's thing at the end.

> (still sitting on the prescription for that)

>

> Skipping Larabars, yoghurt and cashew butter; is there *anything* at all I

could eat when I'd like to taste something good? Pre-SCD I'd have a piece of

dark chocolate after dinner.

>

> I feel like my food is so d@#% bland and unsatisfying. I feel like I need

something more both nutritionally and emotionally. I guess if there'd be some

reward in terms of feeling better physically the sacrifices would be easier to

bear, but almost 4 months of eggs, ground beef and small amts of mushy

veggies...it's getting old. SOme small treat that taste good would be good to

have when cravings set in.WOuld be great to hear if there are any other

non-responders out there and how you've handled it.

> Lilian

>

>

>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm going to suggest that you post a few days of

>>>>>> your food diary for us to look at and see if we

>>>>>> can spot anything that might give a clue.

>>>>>

>>>>> Thank you so much for offering to do this, I'll pots 3 day at the end of

my post.

>>>>>

>>>>>> I can tell you that while I felt better on SCD,

>>>>>> my soft, mushy stool took quite a bit more time

>>>>>> than three months to clear up.

>>>>>

>>>>> My concern is, I haven't really felt better. To be clear, the C isn't my

biggest concern, since at least I can use some form of laxative to help with

that. What bothers me the most is the abdominal distention I get after eating.

I'm happy to report that the stomach discomfort and out-of-control burping has

been all but eliminated since I've been taking HCl before eating (yeah!), but

basically eating makes me look (and feel, to the point of incontinence while

running (sorry abt the TMI, but somehow I suspect on this list details are ok

:^) ) very pregnant. And the fluid retention that goes hand in hand with this.

All in all adding about 6 or more pounds of fluid, gas and C.

>>>>>

>>>>> Since diarrhea and

>>>>>> constipation are opposite ends of the same

>>>>>> spectrum, one might expect the same to be true of it.

>>>>>

>>>>> Absolutely. Pimentel's theory of course is that some bacteria cause D,

some cause C.

>>>>>

>>>>>> Sometimes I think that in trying to follow the

>>>>>> stages, or in trying to add multiple other

>>>>>> interventions / limitations like yeast

>>>>>> prevention, we actually continue the imbalance in our guts.

>>>>>

>>>>> This makes so much sense to me, thank you so much for pointing it out.

Instead of " going to war " against symptoms of imbalance one would perhaps be

better off helping elevate the level of health in the body so that it can

restore its homeostasis, including its microbial balance.

>>>>>

>>>>> It feels like a relief not to think in terms of limiting one's diet more

and more and more, but rather gently lead it towards greater tolerance of the

healthful foods it needs in order to thrive.

>>>>>

>>>>> And I know that for me, meditation and the other ways of

mentally/emotionall y/spiritually feeling better I mentioned previously are

important for gut health. I'm looking forward to a trip to the Caribbean during

spring break; my gut are always so happy when I spend time in the sun :^).

>>>>>

>>>>> So here are my past 3 days:

>>>>>

>>>>> Saturday:

>>>>> B; coffee with home-made coconut milk, 2 fried eggs, DCCC

>>>>> L: leftover coffee (1/4 cup), yoghurt, apple sauce (felt worse after,

suspect the youghurt)

>>>>> D: pork rib tips, squash, well cooked tomato, avocado

>>>>> then- in a moment of despair and seized by cravings: one almond flour nut

muffin and cashew butter, scotch on the rocks (haven't had nut muffins in a

loong time)

>>>>>

>>>>> Sunday:

>>>>> B: coffee, banana " pancake " (egg), applesauce, DCCC

>>>>> L: chicken soup

>>>>> D: ground beef patty, 1/2 avocado, 1/2 tomato, DCCC for taste

>>>>>

>>>>> Monday

>>>>> B: coffe, fried eggs, tomato, avocado

>>>>> L: ground beef patty w/ legal mustard, squash, tomato

>>>>> snack: small piece of Lara-bar

>>>>> D: oven-baked chicken, eggplant, tomato, a few stalks of asparagus, 1/2

teaspoon of cashew-butter (craving something good, some kind of dessert)

>>>>>

>>>>> The above represents my departure from the candida-precautions I've been

observing lately, as well as my attempt to add a small amount of veggies

throughout the day. Other than that, it's fairly representative of what I've

been eating; meat, eggs, squash forming the bulk of the diet.

>>>>>

>>>>> For some reason I didn't react well to most of the foods on the original

intro diet (cheesecake, even without honey), chicken soup, carrots, even

yoghurt. Ground beef patties and eggs are the safest bets for me.

>>>>>

>>>>> Thank you so much for offering to take a look at this, thank so much to

all who replied, I value your help more than you know!

>>>>>

>>>>> Lilian

>>>>> " IBS " -C

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ------------------------------------

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> nner.

>>

>> Lemon meringue pie - or just the custard part.

>>

>> Since you can eat eggs and coconut milk:

>>

>> http://flog.cookingforceliacscolitiscrohnsandibs.com/category/coconut-milk/

>

> This does look delic, thanks! Coconut flour made me very gassy when I tried

it, but maybe a smaller amount would work.

Also, get some cocoa butter and try that - it's very happy making.

SCD with cocoa butter is a whole different world:

http://shop.chocolatealchemy.com/collections/raw-ingredients

try the top one, if you are interested.

I add flakes of it to coffee with almond or coconut milk, and it makes it

like a mocha. I add it to other baking, too, but in place of butter or

coconut oil.

Mara

[Guest guest]

> looser. My problem is motility, it seems. Since SCD my stool has become very

hard, so I think that's what's increasing the C.

Are you sure it is not a functional problem adding to the

difficulty?

What did you do before to increase motility?

Mara

[Guest guest]

> What did you do before to increase motility?

>

> Mara

With 2 Aloe capsules a day I was able to have one BM per day, almost every day.

Since starting SCD stool is harder, and with the aforementioned ALoe capsules +

one cup of SEnna tea per day, still very C'd BM perhaps every 3 days now.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

>

> l-taurine, an amino acid

> which I have used for years. The recommendation

> was to take taurine on an empty stomach, so I

> did. And discovered that one of the things

> taurine does is help you to retain potassium and

> magnesium in your cells, and to excrete sodium.

Marilyn, I'm very happy for you, first of all, and thank you for sharing this,

it's like music to my ears :^)! Will try it immediately!

Lilian

IBS-C

[Guest guest]

I like anything really, spicy food being a favorite. Thai, indian etc. My sense

is, and I may be wrong, that I'm craving greater variety for nutritional

reasons, and carbs to get serotonin levels up. And since I'm " stuck on intro " in

terms of tolerance I haven't been able to introduce more veggies and fruits to

get more carbohydrates.

Lilian

> >Meat, eggs, fish. I can still eat those. It's

> >the non-SCD foods that used to add some flavor to my day, I guess.

>

> Then what you need to do is find a way to

> recreate the taste sensations without the junk.

>

> What spices and herbs do you enjoy? Any ethnic cuisines?

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is nice to think of a little treat. Eventually you should

get there. Have you tried banana? I know some people can't handle

them (like anything else) but I'm remembering my last colonoscopy

prep, the three days of modified diet before the real prep day. I

was told no fruits or veggies that weren't cooked. Except banana.

They said that was nearly pre-digested anyhow. And of course we are

only eating ripe bananas anyhow here.

SOme small treat that taste good would be good to have when cravings

set in.WOuld be great to hear if there are any other non-responders

out there and how you've handled it.

Lilian