Re: Hungry? Not losing? Gaining? Dirty little secrets - (a bit long)

[Guest guest]

While reading this I saw myself. I have often assumed someone wasn't

working the program. Then it dawned on me after being in this group

awhile, that the problem could be mechanical. So I now start asking

questions.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

479/335/???

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:50:27 EDT tuesdynite@... writes:

> I think a member or two might have gingerly mentioned not too long

> ago that

> there is a problem that sometimes happens with our surgeries that

> few docs

> acknowledge, and seldom advise of as a possible occurrence.

>

> I think it is now time to come out of the closet and shine a bright

> light on

> this dirty little secret. Last week I flew to Seattle for an

> endoscopy and

> consult with Dr. Ki Oh bcuz I have NEVER felt much restriction from

> my pouch. I

> have been SO frustrated when others talk about being absolutely

> stuffed on 3

> bites of something. I have not been stuffed on even 10 times that

> much. My first

> solid (soft) food meal was 12 oz (some are supposed to eat only 1

> oz; my doc

> said 4 oz) and I COULD have eaten more--I was not full, or even

> satisfied. I

> stopped eating bcuz I knew I wasn't supposed to be able to eat that

> much.

>

> My surgeon turned a deaf ear to my complaints and pleas. He didn't

> exactly

> say it was " all in my head. " Members of support groups, both online

> and in

> person did, tho, intimate that it had to be " head hunger. " And that

> was both

> hurtful and discouraging. I have spent the better part of the past

> year and a half

> believing that I am no better now than I was pre-op: unable to

> control the

> cravings and eating more than I should. And hating myself and my

> failure quite

> thoroughly.

>

> Well, guess what? The scope showed my stoma is 3 times the size it

> should be.

> Therefore pretty much rendering my pouch non-functional. Nothing

> wrong with

> the POUCH: it's still just 15 cc. But the stoma is too wide and

> doesn't keep

> the food in the pouch. It just pours right thru into my intestine;

> hence, no

> fullness, no satiety, and the urge to keep eating and eating and

> eating.

>

> Becuz the stoma has a tendency to relax/stretch somewhat over time

> of its own

> accord, it is extremely important that the bariatric surgeon make it

> as small

> as possible. In Dr. Oh's opinion, judging by my stoma size after a

> little

> less than 2 years, it was probably made a bit too large in the first

> place. The

> rest of the bad news is that the anastomosis is so close to my

> esophagus that

> there is absolutely no room to do anything about it: can't move it,

> or put a

> silastic ring on it, nothing. I am doomed to be hungry the rest of

> my life. Am I

> mad? Try royally PI - - ED ! Am I going to do anything about it?

> Don't know.

> Right now, I'm just struggling to accept the facts of life, so to

> speak. I am

> relieved that the stoppage of my weight loss is not " all my fault. "

> But I am

> just devastated that I will probably NEVER be able to get to goal --

> at 70 lbs

> more to go. I can go more distal, which will give me some greater

> malabsorption, but it won't do a thing about the large stoma or the

> hunger.

>

> Another misleadig " fact " that was presented by my surgeon prior to

> my

> proximal RNY was that the average weight loss is about 70-75% of

> excess weight. Dr.

> Oh says that that figure is for patients with DISTAL procedures. The

> amount for

> proximals is about 50-55% net loss bcuz of the usual amount of

> regain.

>

> So, dear friends, let this be a clarion call warning. If you are

> struggling

> with slow or stopped weight loss, or regain; if you are constantly

> hungry; if

> you have never or have at some point become unable to feel satisfied

> or full

> after a meal (a normal meal for a bypass patient)--maybe you should

> get yourself

> scoped and see what's going on with " the mechanics " as

> calls them.

> Sometimes something can be done about it. Sometimes, as in my case,

> not.

>

> And PLEASE pass this info on to any other lists you subscribe to, so

> the word

> gets out. I would that not one other person suffers what I have gone

> thru for

> so many months, thinking all kinds of terrible things about myself,

> my lousy

> willpower, my lack of moral fiber, my character defects, etc etc. If

> you know

> a pre-op considering this surgery, please tell him or her that this

> is a

> possible outcome, and that they should query their surgeon closely,

> in advance,

> about what size stoma will be made, and where, and what can be done

> should there

> be a failure or relaxation or stretching of the stoma. They should

> know that

> if a doc says that would not happen, he's not telling the truth or

> he's got his

> head in the sand. And if there are any pre-ops lurking on this list,

> be

> warned as well.

>

> I am not saying that I would not have had the surgery had I known

> this was a

> possibility. But I would have CERTAINLY done more and better

> research, and

> would have made sure that my surgeon would guarantee that my

> " mechanics " were

> constructed in such a way that it would not be impossible to rectify

> the problem.

>

> Carol A

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a question about this stoma issue. My surgeons big worry was that my

stoma would scar too much and I'd have a problem of not being able to

consume enough food. He said if it did he would go back in and stretch it

some. It didn't. If the scaring would have caused this problem then why

could the stoma be scared? Go in with a cautery (or something) cause some

damage to the stoma and when it begins to heal it will scar. Scaring is used

in different areas of the body to fix other problems. I wonder if anyone's

thought of this? Seems simple enough.

Randy

Hungry? Not losing? Gaining? Dirty little

> secrets - (a bit long)

>

>

> I think a member or two might have gingerly mentioned not too long ago

that

> there is a problem that sometimes happens with our surgeries that few docs

> acknowledge, and seldom advise of as a possible occurrence.

>

> I think it is now time to come out of the closet and shine a bright light

on

> this dirty little secret. Last week I flew to Seattle for an endoscopy and

> consult with Dr. Ki Oh bcuz I have NEVER felt much restriction from my

> pouch. I

> have been SO frustrated when others talk about being absolutely stuffed on

3

> bites of something. I have not been stuffed on even 10 times that much. My

> first

> solid (soft) food meal was 12 oz (some are supposed to eat only 1 oz; my

doc

> said 4 oz) and I COULD have eaten more--I was not full, or even satisfied.

I

> stopped eating bcuz I knew I wasn't supposed to be able to eat that much.

>

> My surgeon turned a deaf ear to my complaints and pleas. He didn't exactly

> say it was " all in my head. " Members of support groups, both online and in

> person did, tho, intimate that it had to be " head hunger. " And that was

both

> hurtful and discouraging. I have spent the better part of the past year

and

> a half

> believing that I am no better now than I was pre-op: unable to control the

> cravings and eating more than I should. And hating myself and my failure

> quite

> thoroughly.

>

> Well, guess what? The scope showed my stoma is 3 times the size it should

> be.

> Therefore pretty much rendering my pouch non-functional. Nothing wrong

with

> the POUCH: it's still just 15 cc. But the stoma is too wide and doesn't

keep

> the food in the pouch. It just pours right thru into my intestine; hence,

no

> fullness, no satiety, and the urge to keep eating and eating and eating.

>

> Becuz the stoma has a tendency to relax/stretch somewhat over time of its

> own

> accord, it is extremely important that the bariatric surgeon make it as

> small

> as possible. In Dr. Oh's opinion, judging by my stoma size after a little

> less than 2 years, it was probably made a bit too large in the first

place.

> The

> rest of the bad news is that the anastomosis is so close to my esophagus

> that

> there is absolutely no room to do anything about it: can't move it, or put

a

> silastic ring on it, nothing. I am doomed to be hungry the rest of my

life.

> Am I

> mad? Try royally PI - - ED ! Am I going to do anything about it? Don't

> know.

> Right now, I'm just struggling to accept the facts of life, so to speak. I

> am

> relieved that the stoppage of my weight loss is not " all my fault. " But I

am

> just devastated that I will probably NEVER be able to get to goal -- at 70

> lbs

> more to go. I can go more distal, which will give me some greater

> malabsorption, but it won't do a thing about the large stoma or the

hunger.

>

> Another misleadig " fact " that was presented by my surgeon prior to my

> proximal RNY was that the average weight loss is about 70-75% of excess

> weight. Dr.

> Oh says that that figure is for patients with DISTAL procedures. The

amount

> for

> proximals is about 50-55% net loss bcuz of the usual amount of regain.

>

> So, dear friends, let this be a clarion call warning. If you are

struggling

> with slow or stopped weight loss, or regain; if you are constantly hungry;

> if

> you have never or have at some point become unable to feel satisfied or

full

> after a meal (a normal meal for a bypass patient)--maybe you should get

> yourself

> scoped and see what's going on with " the mechanics " as calls

them.

> Sometimes something can be done about it. Sometimes, as in my case, not.

>

> And PLEASE pass this info on to any other lists you subscribe to, so the

> word

> gets out. I would that not one other person suffers what I have gone thru

> for

> so many months, thinking all kinds of terrible things about myself, my

lousy

> willpower, my lack of moral fiber, my character defects, etc etc. If you

> know

> a pre-op considering this surgery, please tell him or her that this is a

> possible outcome, and that they should query their surgeon closely, in

> advance,

> about what size stoma will be made, and where, and what can be done should

> there

> be a failure or relaxation or stretching of the stoma. They should know

that

> if a doc says that would not happen, he's not telling the truth or he's

got

> his

> head in the sand. And if there are any pre-ops lurking on this list, be

> warned as well.

>

> I am not saying that I would not have had the surgery had I known this was

a

> possibility. But I would have CERTAINLY done more and better research, and

> would have made sure that my surgeon would guarantee that my " mechanics "

> were

> constructed in such a way that it would not be impossible to rectify the

> problem.

>

> Carol A

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/23/2003 11:49:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,

rlogle@... writes:

> If the scaring would have caused this problem then why

> could the stoma be scared? Go in with a cautery (or

> something) cause some

I read that some surgeons are trying this but I am not sure that it has been

successful.

Fay

[Guest guest]

Yes, they have. I believe it was Rita in VT who first mentioned her

surgeon experimenting with something like this. I think there were

also a few other docs trying it, as well. Apparently, it didn't work

very well.

in NJ

***********************

> I have a question about this stoma issue. My surgeons big worry was

that my stoma would scar too much and I'd have a problem of not being

able to consume enough food. He said if it did he would go back in

and stretch it some. It didn't. If the scaring would have caused this

problem then why could the stoma be scared? Go in with a cautery (or

something) cause some damage to the stoma and when it begins to heal

it will scar. Scaring is used in different areas of the body to fix

other problems. I wonder if anyone's thought of this? Seems simple

enough.

> Randy

>