RE: RE: obesity is a choice?

[Guest guest]

>> If one person can

eat more, and desires to eat more, and has a body screaming

for all the stuff we shouldn't eat, does that mean the

person who is happily sated with less food and doesn't crave

the " bad " stuff is making wiser choices? I don't think so.

She is just luckier.

There's where choice comes in, from my point of view, because I do not know

one single post-op, other than those who cannot stop losing and are ill, who

can say they never crave the bad stuff. Every single post-op I knowstill has

the struggle, but the successful ones are making the right choices, and the

unsuccessful ones are not. Maybe there are exceptions, but I don't know any

of them, except for people who are so ill from other complications that

eating makes them sick. Those who can eat normally struggle, if not daily,

at least often, not to make the wrong choices. Some are really good at

making those choices, some have really got it straight in their heads and

the good choices are becoming more automatic. But they are all making

choices not to out-eat their surgeries. The thinnest, healthiest, most

successful post-ops I know still have to choose, meal by meal, day by day,

to eat right.

>> So saying that that person " chooses to be obese " is not only

unkind, it is incorrect.

In many cases I believe it is partially correct, in much the same sense that

some people have to choose to be sober or drug-free. Some of us have an

easier time of it than others, and certainly the surgery gives us an edge to

start with. But I know post-ops who never reached goal because they never

stopped choosing pie over protein -- like addicts or alcoholics, it's a hard

choice, sometimes an impossible choice, but still a choice. Not so much that

we choose obesity, but that we choose a behavior that can lead to obesity,

or prevent us from ever getting away from it.

I was in WalMart a while ago and saw a new product, a dessert kit all in one

box. No one made me buy it. But I bought it. " for the kids " -- yeah right.

Now I could have sashayed over to the pharmacy department and bought a

protein bar instead, but I didn't. If I eat the dessert and gain weight,

whose fault is it? Not the surgery's. Can the surgery stop me? Nope. Can

anyone stop me but me? Not bloody likely. In that case, and in many cases

like it, it's a choice to be obese rather than give up the forbidden fruit.

Could I be just as satisfied (mechanically speaking) with a healthy food?

Sure. But it's not about being full. It's never about being full. I will

never be full, until my head agrees with my pouch, and my head is making the

choices.

~~ Lyn G

[Guest guest]

Well, this only goes to show how different we all are.

I can't eat 1/2 a sub way half sub on my best day. I usually wind up picking

off the condiments and eating them (the peppers, tomatoes, etc.) eat the

meat and cheese, and feed the rest to my obese dogs. Then I get sick and

throw up. I am NOT bulimic. Lately, cottage cheese makes me sick. As every

day goes by, I find fewer and fewer things that I can tolerate. Forget

fried. Forget fatty, forget raw anything. And I think it's a mental thing,

but now, I really don't tolerate carbs well now. I crave them. I get up in

the morning, have my 2 cups of coffee (I'm trying to cut down on my caffeine

too), and want a bowl (read that 3 oz) of grits. No butter, sugar, milk. I

just want my grits! Salt and pepper. I have them. Once a week. I can

guarantee you that in 15 minutes I will be sick. I don't drink sodas. I

don't eat sweets. Major dump if I do.

So, basically, I live on low fat mozzarella cheese and steamed veggies (I

can't eat much meat, either). Now, it just beats the hell out of me why I

don't weigh 115, instead of the 150-155 where I've been for 20 years. Am I a

successful WLS patient? Well, by doctors' standards, I'm a poster child. My

labs are good, I'm at an ideal weight for a 5'10 woman at 47, and I'm

physically active. BUT, on the other hand, I'm a mess. I have gastric reflux

to the point that I've lost all my teeth and have dentures. I love to cook,

but I hate to eat. I don't do protein drinks, bars, etc. I rarely remember

my vitamins (which probably don't do me any good when I do take them,

because I don't absorb them), I smoke, and I have a couple of glasses of

wine a week when my hubby takes me out on Friday night (now tell me, please,

why that doesn't make me sick or silly as hell?)

I'm having a scope tomorrow. I'm pretty darned sure new doc is going to tell

me I can't have wine and cigs anymore. Other than sex, what fun is life

anymore? <VBG> Oh, yeah...I know! I'm NOT FAT! I can wear size 8! I'm

smaller than both of my perpetually younger, more beautiful sisters. And

I'll be around for a long, long time to make my family and friends

miserable! LOL

The surgery I had 21 years ago was archaic by today's standards. But, it was

effective for me. I'm not unhappy, but I want to be happier, and healthier

than I am now. My gastroenterologist doesn't think my surgery is the cause

of my ills, and is determined to fix it. We'll see. Would I go back? Not on

your life. Because of this surgery, I've had 2 (not one) of the coolest

careers I can imagine. I'm working on my third.

I'm done with judging others. We all have to weigh our choices. We can blame

it all on whatever we want...bad choices, bad genetics, bad Karma. MY Karma

tells me to get off my ass and get on with my life. And quit beating the

dead horse. He ain't getting up, and we ain't going back. Roll on,

Rawhide!!!! (that's a 60's thing for you youngsters)

Jac

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RE: obesity is a choice?

Lyn G wrote:

> ** There's a big difference between you and me right there. It is not any

> harder for me to eat as much as I ever could. I eat it slower, but I can

> still eat it. It is not impossible for me to eat a Whopper, large fries

and

> a slice of pie. For a while, I was eating foot-long Subways 3 or 4 times a

> week. I can't eat as fast, but I can eat as much. If I choose to. And

> sometimes I lose all control and choose to.

>

I can eat a foot long Subway. Have done so a few times.

But it takes an hour or more, and I feel at least a bit

uncomfortable afterward. Not sick, more like after a huge

Thankgsiving feast pre-surgery. But before surgery I

could've eaten it in 10 minutes, added fries or chips and a

huge coke, and followed with a pint of Ben & Jerry's

afterwards. So I still have to say the surgery made a big

difference.

But that's getting away from the point. If one person can

eat more, and desires to eat more, and has a body screaming

for all the stuff we shouldn't eat, does that mean the

person who is happily sated with less food and doesn't crave

the " bad " stuff is making wiser choices? I don't think so.

She is just luckier.

> Yes, the surgery gave me the possibility to lose, and I chose to have the

> surgery. Whether or not it is ultimately successful is entirely up to me,

> barring mechanical failure of the surgery itself.

I still disagree for the most part. Yes, everyone has

choices to make, and the best you can do to maximize your

own personal results is to change your eating habits as best

you can, but much of your ultimate success will be due to

factors beyond your control. Even two individuals who have

the same surgery and follow the exact same program to

perfection will rarely (if ever) achieve identical results.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't do the best with what you

have, but it does mean that results do not equal effort.

One person may lose weight and maintain the loss with no

effort, while someone else may be putting in enormous effort

and not achieving nearly as much visible success.

So saying that that person " chooses to be obese " is not only

unkind, it is incorrect. And that is where I got into this

discussion, with a statement that obesity was a choice and

several posts making judgments about obese people, either in

general or particular individuals. It particularly makes me

sad to see so many people who have been trapped in morbid

obesity are so ready to make that judgment about " blame " ,

even if they are equally willing (as many are) to blame

themselves as well.

Jeri

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jlw@...

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[Guest guest]

Jac, I am sorry but I don't believe it is a mental thing with not being able

to eat. I think there is something wrong with your mechanics and I hope the

scope shows it and if not, I hope they do more tests.

Fay Bayuk

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10/23/01

Dr.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/20/2003 8:23:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kgreco@... writes:

> One thing I am sure of...and I get alot of arguments

> on this point, so, I'm ready for more...is that it is something

> physical,

Anne, you are so right. I used to say the same thing about

alcohol. My father was an alcoholic and when I was young I did everything

possible to become an alcoholic (not consciously). I went out drinking all

the time, and got very drunk, very quickly. I never did develop any capacity

for booze, I never craved it at home. It took me days to even think about

drinking after I got drunk. Once I started on antidepressants, it said to

not drink with them, so I didn't.

Is my will power greater than those afflicted with the disease? Hell no. It

is a physical thing. Did I have to detox from the morphine in the hospital,

hell no, I hated the stuff. Am I superior because I don't crave chocolate

and look at rich desserts like I would at a pencil, hell no. Am I inferior

because I pass by pretzels, chips, pretzels, chips, pretzels, chips and think

" I could kill " for just a taste, hell no. Am I inferior because I am wanting

more and more popcorn everyday, Hell no.

My 2 cents and a lifetime of observations.

Fay Bayuk

**300/173

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

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