If you want my body

[Guest guest]

Uh oh!!! Ronnnnnnnnn - are you feeling flirty my friend??? Watch out, Ladies!!

teehee

in Cupertino

[Guest guest]

OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now and I am looking for some expert advice. I have not had the surgery yet, but I have lost a good deal of weight and have made significant changes to my body over the last year on my journey. I have begun to attract attention from others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, I really lack the ability to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic attention. I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or flirtatious with other. This is very important for me because I love my wife very much and I do not want to put myself in a compromising position. Any pointers?

[Guest guest]

first of all congrats on the changes you are and will continue to make in your lifestyle. now, for my answer to your question.... regardless of whether the person is flirting or just teasing or just making conversation, you are only responsbile for yourself and your actions/reactions. How you respond will set the tone .... even if there is a flirt if you act like you didn't notice but saw a compliment or a tease will make that person then take that agenda... if she/he persists and verbalizes interest a simple OMG, how interesting.... but i do not step outside my marriage for any reason should suffice. i always say KISS (keep it short/simple) or thou protests too much and it is open for further actions.... just my 2c B wrote: OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now and I am looking for some expert advice. I have not had the surgery yet, but I have lost a good deal of weight and have made significant changes to my body over the last year on my journey. I have begun to attract attention from others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, I really lack the ability to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic attention. I am also worried

that I am overly dismissive or flirtatious with other. This is very important for me because I love my wife very much and I do not want to put myself in a compromising position. Any pointers?

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Oooohhh, I'll be following this thread closely. Not married, but interested in the advice.

Ron

"If you want my body"

OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now and I am looking for some expert advice. I have not had the surgery yet, but I have lost a good deal of weight and have made significant changes to my body over the last year on my journey. I have begun to attract attention from others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, I really lack the ability to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic attention. I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or flirtatious with other. This is very important for me because I love my wife very much and I do not want to put myself in a compromising position.

Any pointers?

[Guest guest]

, when I lost the weight, that is one thing that

I did not know how to handle. I am married but that

is something that I discussed with my husband. I

think because I did not receive the comments well from

other men like most women would have, I really needed

to talk with my best friend which is my husband. I

got angry about the attention I got. I did not find

it infectious or any of that other stuff. I was angry

because I felt like I was pretty as a fat person but

now because I was size 8 the men where just coming out

of the wood works. My husband told me its because I

am more approachable than I was before and he was

right. I failed to see that part. I just had a wall

up that fat women were being discriminated against. I

think that you should talk with you wife and express

your concerns. I mean especially if you have no plans

on leaving your wife. Maybe she might be willing to

turn up the romance between the two of you and this

way when it comes from outside it won't have such a

tremendous effect on you if any at all. Now I receive

the compliments and keep moving. It does nothing to

draw me away from my spouse/my best friend. Just be

careful because even though my husband listened and

did not get jealous and it did not cause a problem

with us, you might not know how your wife may take it.

Just be prayerful. If you don't talk with her about

what you may or may not be experiencing, then you need

to decide the value of your marriage. Is having a

flng or getting caught up worth losing your wife and

or family over. Think about it. Its about choices

and then whatever you decide, be man enough to deal

with the consequences. I hope that you make the right

choices. It can be overwhelming with the changes in

the body. Not everyone is so lucky. So do take that

leap and have affairs and mess their marriages up and

end up not even with the person they had the affair

with so just be careful. Please.

Pam Marsh

--- BBQ Man wrote:

> Oooohhh, I'll be following this thread closely. Not

> married, but interested in the advice.

> Ron

>

> " If you want my body "

>

>

> OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now

> and I am looking for some expert advice. I have not

> had the surgery yet, but I have lost a good deal of

> weight and have made significant changes to my body

> over the last year on my journey. I have begun to

> attract attention from others. Having been fat

> since I was 6 months old, I really lack the ability

> to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic

> attention. I am also worried that I am overly

> dismissive or flirtatious with other. This is very

> important for me because I love my wife very much

> and I do not want to put myself in a compromising

> position.

>

> Any pointers?

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

:

Wow, this is a " touchy " subject (pun intended…LOL). That attention

is SCARY and WONDERFUL at the same time. Going from invisible to

visible (and dare I say, " Attractive? " ) is very, very difficult, and

it's good that you're starting to think about it. I remember a TV

movie from the 70s starring Stockard Channing called, " The Girl Most

Likely To… " She went from MO to beautiful, but then decided to " off "

people who had hurt her when she was large. She went on a killing

spree, but it was all black humor. I LOVE that movie.

Mental rehearsal has been such a winning strategy for me in my

journey. Thinking about how I'd react in certain circumstances

calmed my nerves. In the past, when I've lost weight, I'd get more

attention from women and men, sexual and friendly. I began to feel

weak, vulnerable and naked, like I'd lost my protective shield. It

was a shield—my armor of fat to keep people away. I felt unprotected

and powerless.

My surgeon, Dr. Fisher, said something very wise to me, " You know,

Francisco, this is a normal part of life. You're a pretty good

looking guy. Try to enjoy it. " The first couple of times it

happens, you kind of just freeze, and think, " What was that? " But

you get used to it. The attention becomes a normal part of life.

It's amazing how much better I'm treated. Bar tenders remember that

I drink bottled water. One even served me before others in line and

reached over and tweaked my nipple and said he loved my tattoos. I

have even been invited to do a three-way with a really hot couple

(but I had to say no.. it's just not me.) For a while (after I was

single) I was dating between 3 and 7 guys a week. OK, 7 dates in one

week was a bit much, but it was fun. (By date, I mean dinner and a

movie—not hopping into the sack!) But don't let this scare you!

This time I wanted to deal better with the attention and not turn to

food (and gain back what I'd lost). I realized (by

reading " Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin " by Anne )

that the power lies within me. My boundaries need not be a suit of

armor made of fat. Boundaries are internal, and I just need to

practice making my needs and feelings and BOUNDARIES a priority in my

life.

You'll do fine, . You'll learn what feels right and what

doesn't. Flirting is OK, in my opinion. It's part of the fun of

life. I can be life-affirming and ego-stroking (in a good way). If

you just enjoy it as that—as no big deal, no danger to your

relationship—then you'll be OK. If, however, you decide to take

flirtation further (no judgment here), it's like everything. There

are consequences.

It's funny how I've related this too food. I may want to eat that

big, juicy delicious piece of chocolate cake, but I have to decide:

is that a good choice for me? Or will I just flirt with it and have

a tiny bite? Is it better for me to avoid it all together? The

answer depends on the situation, how comfortable you are and how

strong your boundaries are at the time.

Hope this helps. Enjoy life. Flirting can be delicious in ways that

food will never be. But there's also nothing like the nurturing love

that comes from a relationship.

Best of luck to you,

Francisco

>

>

> OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now and I am looking

for

> some expert advice. I have not had the surgery yet, but I have

lost a

> good deal of weight and have made significant changes to my body

over

> the last year on my journey. I have begun to attract attention from

> others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, I really lack the

> ability to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic

attention.

> I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or flirtatious with

other.

> This is very important for me because I love my wife very much and

I do

> not want to put myself in a compromising position.

>

> Any pointers?

>

[Guest guest]

I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!!! manisodream wrote: :Wow, this is a "touchy" subject (pun intended…LOL). That attention is SCARY and WONDERFUL at the same time. Going from invisible to visible (and dare I say, "Attractive?") is very, very difficult, and it's good that you're starting to think about it. I remember a TV movie from the 70s starring Stockard Channing called, "The Girl Most Likely To…" She went from MO to beautiful, but then decided to "off" people who had hurt her when she

was large. She went on a killing spree, but it was all black humor. I LOVE that movie.Mental rehearsal has been such a winning strategy for me in my journey. Thinking about how I'd react in certain circumstances calmed my nerves. In the past, when I've lost weight, I'd get more attention from women and men, sexual and friendly. I began to feel weak, vulnerable and naked, like I'd lost my protective shield. It was a shield—my armor of fat to keep people away. I felt unprotected and powerless.My surgeon, Dr. Fisher, said something very wise to me, "You know, Francisco, this is a normal part of life. You're a pretty good looking guy. Try to enjoy it." The first couple of times it happens, you kind of just freeze, and think, "What was that?" But you get used to it. The attention becomes a normal part of life. It's amazing how much better I'm treated. Bar tenders remember that I drink bottled water. One even

served me before others in line and reached over and tweaked my nipple and said he loved my tattoos. I have even been invited to do a three-way with a really hot couple (but I had to say no.. it's just not me.) For a while (after I was single) I was dating between 3 and 7 guys a week. OK, 7 dates in one week was a bit much, but it was fun. (By date, I mean dinner and a movie—not hopping into the sack!) But don't let this scare you!This time I wanted to deal better with the attention and not turn to food (and gain back what I'd lost). I realized (by reading "Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin" by Anne ) that the power lies within me. My boundaries need not be a suit of armor made of fat. Boundaries are internal, and I just need to practice making my needs and feelings and BOUNDARIES a priority in my life.You'll do fine, . You'll learn what feels right and what doesn't. Flirting is OK, in

my opinion. It's part of the fun of life. I can be life-affirming and ego-stroking (in a good way). If you just enjoy it as that—as no big deal, no danger to your relationship—then you'll be OK. If, however, you decide to take flirtation further (no judgment here), it's like everything. There are consequences.It's funny how I've related this too food. I may want to eat that big, juicy delicious piece of chocolate cake, but I have to decide: is that a good choice for me? Or will I just flirt with it and have a tiny bite? Is it better for me to avoid it all together? The answer depends on the situation, how comfortable you are and how strong your boundaries are at the time.Hope this helps. Enjoy life. Flirting can be delicious in ways that food will never be. But there's also nothing like the nurturing love that comes from a relationship.Best of luck to you,Francisco>> > OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now and I am looking for> some expert advice. I have not had the surgery yet, but I have lost a> good deal of weight and have made significant changes to my body over> the last year on my journey. I have begun to attract attention from> others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, I really lack the> ability to distinguish plutonic attention from non-plutonic attention. > I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or flirtatious with other.> This is very important for me because I love my wife very much and I do> not want to put myself in a compromising position.> > Any

pointers?>

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[Guest guest]

:

A line from an Indigo Girl's song (The Power of Two)

that I use as a mantra: " All the shiny little

trinkets of temptation, something new instead of

something old. All you gotta do is scratch beneath

the surface and it's Fool's Gold. "

It's a heady thing, and like Francisco said, sometimes

a scary thing...to suddenly get so much attention.

I'm fortunate, in that, even when I was 261 lbs., I

have always been pretty attractive. So, I always got

attention from certain men (not those with an aversion

to extra lbs., but there are plenty of men out there

who aren't so single-minded about body size, who are

more " face people " .) I've also always had women

friends who are very attractive.

But, let me tell you...when I lost all of my weight,

it was a strange thing. It hearkened back to when I

was 20, young, thin and a PYT. I'm not joking,

suddenly men were running to get the door for me.

That's not an exaggeration. My coworkers, who had

always been comfortable around me, were suddenly shy

and blushy when they talked to me. For Pete's sake,

even now that I'm pregnant, I have men offering me

thier phone numbers, asking me out on dates, telling

me I'm beautiful. At the wedding I went to in Sweden,

I had a multi-millionaire telling me that I shouldn't

settle for anything less than a super rich man,

because I could definitely get whoever I wanted. (I

wanted to barf on his shoes at that point, but

whatever.)

At first, it's scary, and then it's exciting, and then

it's tempting...and then, you know what? You get used

to it. People are attracted to pretty things. They

love little cute puppies. But that doesn't mean they

have what it takes to take care of that puppy for the

long haul, you know?

I am glad that people find me attractive. I expected

that men probably would. What I've found to be more

bizarre is that women are MUCH more friendly to me

now. They want to be my friend. They come up to me

on the street and comment on my clothes, my hair, my

jewelry, and yes, even my " darling figure " (go

figure.) I live in the Marina, which is full of

beautiful and vapid people...and the want to be around

beautiful people. It makes them seem more attractive,

I guess. It's weird.

And for a little while I kind of resented it. Not in

a Stockard Channing way...but generally. I mean, I

hadn't changed. It was only my exterior that changed,

so what was up?

Then I did a reality check. Of COURSE I had changed.

I am much more confident, light-hearted, open...not

self-conscious. I wear more adventurous clothing...I

smile more. I'm more approachable. I have changed a

LOT. And so that combination of my exterior and

interior is simply more attractive to everybody.

I always had this very great career...I'm highly

successful, I travel a lot, I'm well-rounded in my

interests...but like it or not, my extra weight sort

of acted like a barrier, or a sign that said, " She's

not completely altogether...she's got something

holding her back. " For me, that was true. My weight

was a badge of my past. I was molested as a

child...this was a way to keep men away from me, to

protect myself. It was a barrier...and essentially an

open wound. People could sense that.

Now, i've triumphed over that...and there is no more

barrier. And so I can be open, i can flirt...etc.

You said something about sometimes being " dismissive " .

I don't know if you meant in the way of " Who me?

Come on, you must be kidding.. " or if you meant in the

way that it is hard for you to imagie that someone

might have a serious crush on you, and thus you should

be more careful of their feelings. I had that happen.

It was so hard for me to imagine that I would really

matter to anyone on that deep level...and I was

glib...and I hurt their feelings. That wasn't cool.

So now, I flirt back a little bit, in a fun (but with

boundaries) way. But, the second I get the sense that

the other person is a bit serious, I say, " I don't

mean to be presumptious, and forgive me if I've

misinterpreted where you are coming from. I just want

to be clear and fair...I'm very happily involved with

someone I love very much...and even though I flirt

casually, that's the limit of what I will do. And in

fact, I would flirt in exactly the same way right in

front of him. I'm not meaning to embarrass you, and

it's possible that you are on exactly the same page.

I just wanted to get that out there so that we can

avoid any misunderstandings. "

It works.

Lots of people go nuts when they lose weight. They go

on a bender...not with food, not with alcohol, but

with people other than their significant others. You

know what that does? It clouds your happiness about

your weight loss. It starts making you feel like you

don't deserve the weightloss. Like if you want to

keep your marriage, you better put on a few lbs. to

protect yourself from temptation. It takes away

something from a fantastic gift...and it turns it a

little ugly.

So, please...think hard. Your weight loss is about

having a long and healthy life. If you are happy in

your marriage...even if it's been in a rut...you have

the power to spice that marriage up. For goodness'

sake...once your wife gets over feeling threatened by

your changes (if she does) she's going to be even more

attracted to you. You'll have the chance to have all

kinds of new experiences with her, because you won't

be limited by your weight...you can pick up new

hobbies together, become more active...and as a

result, have a better relationship in the sack.

Keep her a part of your journey. Explain the changes

going on inside as well as outside...how you are

feeling about all of it. Be honest.

In the end, you will have the pot of REAL gold...and

it won't be tarnished by guilt and regrets about how

you have behaved.

Good luck! And yes, enjoy the attention...but take it

for what it is worth. Which isn't much.

Robynn

--- manisodream wrote:

> :

>

> Wow, this is a " touchy " subject (pun intended…LOL).

> That attention

> is SCARY and WONDERFUL at the same time. Going from

> invisible to

> visible (and dare I say, " Attractive? " ) is very,

> very difficult, and

> it's good that you're starting to think about it. I

> remember a TV

> movie from the 70s starring Stockard Channing

> called, " The Girl Most

> Likely To… " She went from MO to beautiful, but then

> decided to " off "

> people who had hurt her when she was large. She

> went on a killing

> spree, but it was all black humor. I LOVE that

> movie.

>

> Mental rehearsal has been such a winning strategy

> for me in my

> journey. Thinking about how I'd react in certain

> circumstances

> calmed my nerves. In the past, when I've lost

> weight, I'd get more

> attention from women and men, sexual and friendly.

> I began to feel

> weak, vulnerable and naked, like I'd lost my

> protective shield. It

> was a shield—my armor of fat to keep people away. I

> felt unprotected

> and powerless.

>

> My surgeon, Dr. Fisher, said something very wise to

> me, " You know,

> Francisco, this is a normal part of life. You're a

> pretty good

> looking guy. Try to enjoy it. " The first couple of

> times it

> happens, you kind of just freeze, and think, " What

> was that? " But

> you get used to it. The attention becomes a normal

> part of life.

> It's amazing how much better I'm treated. Bar

> tenders remember that

> I drink bottled water. One even served me before

> others in line and

> reached over and tweaked my nipple and said he loved

> my tattoos. I

> have even been invited to do a three-way with a

> really hot couple

> (but I had to say no.. it's just not me.) For a

> while (after I was

> single) I was dating between 3 and 7 guys a week.

> OK, 7 dates in one

> week was a bit much, but it was fun. (By date, I

> mean dinner and a

> movie—not hopping into the sack!) But don't let

> this scare you!

>

> This time I wanted to deal better with the attention

> and not turn to

> food (and gain back what I'd lost). I realized (by

> reading " Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin " by

> Anne )

> that the power lies within me. My boundaries need

> not be a suit of

> armor made of fat. Boundaries are internal, and I

> just need to

> practice making my needs and feelings and BOUNDARIES

> a priority in my

> life.

>

> You'll do fine, . You'll learn what feels

> right and what

> doesn't. Flirting is OK, in my opinion. It's part

> of the fun of

> life. I can be life-affirming and ego-stroking (in

> a good way). If

> you just enjoy it as that—as no big deal, no danger

> to your

> relationship—then you'll be OK. If, however, you

> decide to take

> flirtation further (no judgment here), it's like

> everything. There

> are consequences.

>

> It's funny how I've related this too food. I may

> want to eat that

> big, juicy delicious piece of chocolate cake, but I

> have to decide:

> is that a good choice for me? Or will I just flirt

> with it and have

> a tiny bite? Is it better for me to avoid it all

> together? The

> answer depends on the situation, how comfortable you

> are and how

> strong your boundaries are at the time.

>

> Hope this helps. Enjoy life. Flirting can be

> delicious in ways that

> food will never be. But there's also nothing like

> the nurturing love

> that comes from a relationship.

>

> Best of luck to you,

>

> Francisco

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now

> and I am looking

> for

> > some expert advice. I have not had the surgery

> yet, but I have

> lost a

> > good deal of weight and have made significant

> changes to my body

> over

> > the last year on my journey. I have begun to

> attract attention from

> > others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old,

> I really lack the

> > ability to distinguish plutonic attention from

> non-plutonic

> attention.

> > I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or

> flirtatious with

> other.

> > This is very important for me because I love my

> wife very much and

> I do

> > not want to put myself in a compromising position.

> >

> > Any pointers?

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Robynn, I totally agree with what you have said here.

Thank you!

Pam Marsh

--- Robynn VanPatten wrote:

> :

>

> A line from an Indigo Girl's song (The Power of Two)

> that I use as a mantra: " All the shiny little

> trinkets of temptation, something new instead of

> something old. All you gotta do is scratch beneath

> the surface and it's Fool's Gold. "

>

> It's a heady thing, and like Francisco said,

> sometimes

> a scary thing...to suddenly get so much attention.

> I'm fortunate, in that, even when I was 261 lbs., I

> have always been pretty attractive. So, I always

> got

> attention from certain men (not those with an

> aversion

> to extra lbs., but there are plenty of men out there

> who aren't so single-minded about body size, who are

> more " face people " .) I've also always had women

> friends who are very attractive.

>

> But, let me tell you...when I lost all of my weight,

> it was a strange thing. It hearkened back to when I

> was 20, young, thin and a PYT. I'm not joking,

> suddenly men were running to get the door for me.

> That's not an exaggeration. My coworkers, who had

> always been comfortable around me, were suddenly shy

> and blushy when they talked to me. For Pete's sake,

> even now that I'm pregnant, I have men offering me

> thier phone numbers, asking me out on dates, telling

> me I'm beautiful. At the wedding I went to in

> Sweden,

> I had a multi-millionaire telling me that I

> shouldn't

> settle for anything less than a super rich man,

> because I could definitely get whoever I wanted. (I

> wanted to barf on his shoes at that point, but

> whatever.)

>

> At first, it's scary, and then it's exciting, and

> then

> it's tempting...and then, you know what? You get

> used

> to it. People are attracted to pretty things. They

> love little cute puppies. But that doesn't mean

> they

> have what it takes to take care of that puppy for

> the

> long haul, you know?

>

> I am glad that people find me attractive. I

> expected

> that men probably would. What I've found to be more

> bizarre is that women are MUCH more friendly to me

> now. They want to be my friend. They come up to me

> on the street and comment on my clothes, my hair, my

> jewelry, and yes, even my " darling figure " (go

> figure.) I live in the Marina, which is full of

> beautiful and vapid people...and the want to be

> around

> beautiful people. It makes them seem more

> attractive,

> I guess. It's weird.

>

> And for a little while I kind of resented it. Not

> in

> a Stockard Channing way...but generally. I mean, I

> hadn't changed. It was only my exterior that

> changed,

> so what was up?

>

> Then I did a reality check. Of COURSE I had changed.

>

> I am much more confident, light-hearted, open...not

> self-conscious. I wear more adventurous

> clothing...I

> smile more. I'm more approachable. I have changed

> a

> LOT. And so that combination of my exterior and

> interior is simply more attractive to everybody.

>

> I always had this very great career...I'm highly

> successful, I travel a lot, I'm well-rounded in my

> interests...but like it or not, my extra weight sort

> of acted like a barrier, or a sign that said, " She's

> not completely altogether...she's got something

> holding her back. " For me, that was true. My

> weight

> was a badge of my past. I was molested as a

> child...this was a way to keep men away from me, to

> protect myself. It was a barrier...and essentially

> an

> open wound. People could sense that.

>

> Now, i've triumphed over that...and there is no more

> barrier. And so I can be open, i can flirt...etc.

>

> You said something about sometimes being

> " dismissive " .

> I don't know if you meant in the way of " Who me?

> Come on, you must be kidding.. " or if you meant in

> the

> way that it is hard for you to imagie that someone

> might have a serious crush on you, and thus you

> should

> be more careful of their feelings. I had that

> happen.

> It was so hard for me to imagine that I would

> really

> matter to anyone on that deep level...and I was

> glib...and I hurt their feelings. That wasn't cool.

>

> So now, I flirt back a little bit, in a fun (but

> with

> boundaries) way. But, the second I get the sense

> that

> the other person is a bit serious, I say, " I don't

> mean to be presumptious, and forgive me if I've

> misinterpreted where you are coming from. I just

> want

> to be clear and fair...I'm very happily involved

> with

> someone I love very much...and even though I flirt

> casually, that's the limit of what I will do. And

> in

> fact, I would flirt in exactly the same way right in

> front of him. I'm not meaning to embarrass you, and

> it's possible that you are on exactly the same page.

>

> I just wanted to get that out there so that we can

> avoid any misunderstandings. "

>

> It works.

>

> Lots of people go nuts when they lose weight. They

> go

> on a bender...not with food, not with alcohol, but

> with people other than their significant others.

> You

> know what that does? It clouds your happiness about

> your weight loss. It starts making you feel like

> you

> don't deserve the weightloss. Like if you want to

> keep your marriage, you better put on a few lbs. to

> protect yourself from temptation. It takes away

> something from a fantastic gift...and it turns it a

> little ugly.

>

> So, please...think hard. Your weight loss is about

> having a long and healthy life. If you are happy in

> your marriage...even if it's been in a rut...you

> have

> the power to spice that marriage up. For goodness'

> sake...once your wife gets over feeling threatened

> by

> your changes (if she does) she's going to be even

> more

> attracted to you. You'll have the chance to have

> all

> kinds of new experiences with her, because you won't

> be limited by your weight...you can pick up new

> hobbies together, become more active...and as a

> result, have a better relationship in the sack.

>

> Keep her a part of your journey. Explain the

> changes

> going on inside as well as outside...how you are

> feeling about all of it. Be honest.

>

> In the end, you will have the pot of REAL gold...and

> it won't be tarnished by guilt and regrets about how

> you have behaved.

>

> Good luck! And yes, enjoy the attention...but take

> it

> for what it is worth. Which isn't much.

>

> Robynn

>

> --- manisodream wrote:

>

> > :

> >

> > Wow, this is a " touchy " subject (pun

> intended…LOL).

> > That attention

> > is SCARY and WONDERFUL at the same time. Going

> from

> > invisible to

> > visible (and dare I say, " Attractive? " ) is very,

> > very difficult, and

> > it's good that you're starting to think about it.

> I

> > remember a TV

> > movie from the 70s starring Stockard Channing

> > called, " The Girl Most

> > Likely To… " She went from MO to beautiful, but

> then

> > decided to " off "

> > people who had hurt her when she was large. She

> > went on a killing

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Robynn, you missed your calling, Sweets. You shoulda been a shrink!! You're so smart, as my son says, "wicked smaht". What youv'e said is exactly true. How are you feeling little mama? -- : A line from an Indigo Girl's song (The Power of Two) that I use as a mantra: "All the shiny little trinkets of temptation, something new instead of something old. All you gotta do is scratch beneath the surface and it's

Fool's Gold." It's a heady thing, and like Francisco said, sometimes a scary thing...to suddenly get so much attention. I'm fortunate, in that, even when I was 261 lbs., I have always been pretty attractive. So, I always got attention from certain men (not those with an aversion to extra lbs., but there are plenty of men out there who aren't so single-minded about body size, who are more "face people".) I've also always had women friends who are very attractive. But, let me tell you...when I lost all of my weight, it was a strange thing. It hearkened back to when I was 20, young, thin and a PYT. I'm not joking, suddenly men were running to get the door for me. That's not an exaggeration. My coworkers, who had always been comfortable around me, were suddenly shy and blushy when they talked to me. For Pete's sake, even now that I'm pregnant, I have men offering me thier phone numbers,

asking me out on dates, telling me I'm beautiful. At the wedding I went to in Sweden, I had a multi-millionaire telling me that I shouldn't settle for anything less than a super rich man, because I could definitely get whoever I wanted. (I wanted to barf on his shoes at that point, but whatever.) At first, it's scary, and then it's exciting, and then it's tempting...and then, you know what? You get used to it. People are attracted to pretty things. They love little cute puppies. But that doesn't mean they have what it takes to take care of that puppy for the long haul, you know? I am glad that people find me attractive. I expected that men probably would. What I've found to be more bizarre is that women are MUCH more friendly to me now. They want to be my friend. They come up to me on the street and comment on my clothes, my hair, my jewelry, and yes, even my "darling figure"

(go figure.) I live in the Marina, which is full of beautiful and vapid people...and the want to be around beautiful people. It makes them seem more attractive, I guess. It's weird. And for a little while I kind of resented it. Not in a Stockard Channing way...but generally. I mean, I hadn't changed. It was only my exterior that changed, so what was up? Then I did a reality check. Of COURSE I had changed. I am much more confident, light-hearted, open...not self-conscious. I wear more adventurous clothing...I smile more. I'm more approachable. I have changed a LOT. And so that combination of my exterior and interior is simply more attractive to everybody. I always had this very great career...I'm highly successful, I travel a lot, I'm well-rounded in my interests...but like it or not, my extra weight sort of acted like a barrier, or a sign that said, "She's not

completely altogether...she's got something holding her back." For me, that was true. My weight was a badge of my past. I was molested as a child...this was a way to keep men away from me, to protect myself. It was a barrier...and essentially an open wound. People could sense that. Now, i've triumphed over that...and there is no more barrier. And so I can be open, i can flirt...etc. You said something about sometimes being "dismissive". I don't know if you meant in the way of "Who me? Come on, you must be kidding.." or if you meant in the way that it is hard for you to imagie that someone might have a serious crush on you, and thus you should be more careful of their feelings. I had that happen. It was so hard for me to imagine that I would really matter to anyone on that deep level...and I was glib...and I hurt their feelings. That wasn't cool. So now, I flirt back a

little bit, in a fun (but with boundaries) way. But, the second I get the sense that the other person is a bit serious, I say, "I don't mean to be presumptious, and forgive me if I've misinterpreted where you are coming from. I just want to be clear and fair...I'm very happily involved with someone I love very much...and even though I flirt casually, that's the limit of what I will do. And in fact, I would flirt in exactly the same way right in front of him. I'm not meaning to embarrass you, and it's possible that you are on exactly the same page. I just wanted to get that out there so that we can avoid any misunderstandings." It works. Lots of people go nuts when they lose weight. They go on a bender...not with food, not with alcohol, but with people other than their significant others. You know what that does? It clouds your happiness about your weight loss. It starts making

you feel like you don't deserve the weightloss. Like if you want to keep your marriage, you better put on a few lbs. to protect yourself from temptation. It takes away something from a fantastic gift...and it turns it a little ugly. So, please...think hard. Your weight loss is about having a long and healthy life. If you are happy in your marriage...even if it's been in a rut...you have the power to spice that marriage up. For goodness' sake...once your wife gets over feeling threatened by your changes (if she does) she's going to be even more attracted to you. You'll have the chance to have all kinds of new experiences with her, because you won't be limited by your weight...you can pick up new hobbies together, become more active...and as a result, have a better relationship in the sack. Keep her a part of your journey. Explain the changes going on inside as well as outside...how you

are feeling about all of it. Be honest. In the end, you will have the pot of REAL gold...and it won't be tarnished by guilt and regrets about how you have behaved. Good luck! And yes, enjoy the attention...but take it for what it is worth. Which isn't much. Robynn --- manisodream <manisodream (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: > : > > Wow, this is a "touchy" subject (pun intended�LOL). > That attention > is SCARY and WONDERFUL at the same time. Going from > invisible to > visible (and dare I say, "Attractive?") is very, > very difficult, and > it's good that you're starting to think about it. I > remember a TV > movie from the 70s starring Stockard Channing > called, "The Girl Most > Likely To�" She went from MO to beautiful, but then >

decided to "off" > people who had hurt her when she was large. She > went on a killing > spree, but it was all black humor. I LOVE that > movie. > > Mental rehearsal has been such a winning strategy > for me in my > journey. Thinking about how I'd react in certain > circumstances > calmed my nerves. In the past, when I've lost > weight, I'd get more > attention from women and men, sexual and friendly. > I began to feel > weak, vulnerable and naked, like I'd lost my > protective shield. It > was a shield�my armor of fat to keep people away. I > felt unprotected > and powerless. > > My surgeon, Dr. Fisher, said something very wise to > me, "You know, > Francisco, this is a normal part of life. You're a > pretty good > looking guy. Try to enjoy it." The first couple of > times it

> happens, you kind of just freeze, and think, "What > was that?" But > you get used to it. The attention becomes a normal > part of life. > It's amazing how much better I'm treated. Bar > tenders remember that > I drink bottled water. One even served me before > others in line and > reached over and tweaked my nipple and said he loved > my tattoos. I > have even been invited to do a three-way with a > really hot couple > (but I had to say no.. it's just not me.) For a > while (after I was > single) I was dating between 3 and 7 guys a week. > OK, 7 dates in one > week was a bit much, but it was fun. (By date, I > mean dinner and a > movie�not hopping into the sack!) But don't let > this scare you! > > This time I wanted to deal better with the attention > and not turn to > food (and

gain back what I'd lost). I realized (by > reading "Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin" by > Anne ) > that the power lies within me. My boundaries need > not be a suit of > armor made of fat. Boundaries are internal, and I > just need to > practice making my needs and feelings and BOUNDARIES > a priority in my > life. > > You'll do fine, . You'll learn what feels > right and what > doesn't. Flirting is OK, in my opinion. It's part > of the fun of > life. I can be life-affirming and ego-stroking (in > a good way). If > you just enjoy it as that�as no big deal, no danger > to your > relationship�then you'll be OK. If, however, you > decide to take > flirtation further (no judgment here), it's like > everything. There > are consequences. > > It's funny

how I've related this too food. I may > want to eat that > big, juicy delicious piece of chocolate cake, but I > have to decide: > is that a good choice for me? Or will I just flirt > with it and have > a tiny bite? Is it better for me to avoid it all > together? The > answer depends on the situation, how comfortable you > are and how > strong your boundaries are at the time. > > Hope this helps. Enjoy life. Flirting can be > delicious in ways that > food will never be. But there's also nothing like > the nurturing love > that comes from a relationship. > > Best of luck to you, > > Francisco > > > >

> > > > > OK, I am going through a bit of an issue right now > and I am looking > for > > some expert advice. I have not had the surgery > yet, but I have > lost a > > good deal of weight and have made significant > changes to my body > over > > the last year on my journey. I have begun to > attract attention from > > others. Having been fat since I was 6 months old, > I really lack the > > ability to distinguish plutonic attention from > non-plutonic > attention. > > I am also worried that I am overly dismissive or > flirtatious with > other. > > This is very important for me because I love my > wife very much and > I do > > not want to put myself in a compromising position. > > > > Any pointers? > > > > >

> >

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Thank you all very much for the advice. I really appreciate it. I am

trying to follow the Gitty rule " live like you had the surgery " which

is why I brought it up. For the few of you who are worried about me

(and my wife who reads these on occasion) I have not strayed in thought

word or deed, nor do I intend to do so. I am very worried about it. I

am a man (weak minded, vain you know the type) and as such I want to be

prepared.

Thanks again

[Guest guest]

Forewarned is forearmed. I think you are smart to

think about these things now, . And it's a good

subject to bring up.

Robynn

--- wrote:

> Thank you all very much for the advice. I really

> appreciate it. I am

> trying to follow the Gitty rule " live like you had

> the surgery " which

> is why I brought it up. For the few of you who are

> worried about me

> (and my wife who reads these on occasion) I have not

> strayed in thought

> word or deed, nor do I intend to do so. I am very

> worried about it. I

> am a man (weak minded, vain you know the type) and

> as such I want to be

> prepared.

>

> Thanks again

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why thank you, That's a nice compliment.

I'm feeling pretty great...except I'm so tired it

isn't even funny!! Yikes. The last few nights I've

fallen asleep at 8 p.m., and slept until 7 a.m.! And

I'm still tired after that.

It's a lot of work to make a baby!!!

Robynn

--- Rhinehart wrote:

> Robynn, you missed your calling, Sweets. You

> shoulda been a shrink!! You're so smart, as my son

> says, " wicked smaht " . What youv'e said is exactly

> true. How are you feeling little mama? --On

> Angel Wings

>

> Robynn VanPatten wrote:

> :

>

> A line from an Indigo Girl's song (The Power of

> Two)

> that I use as a mantra: " All the shiny little

> trinkets of temptation, something new instead of

> something old. All you gotta do is scratch beneath

> the surface and it's Fool's Gold. "

>

> It's a heady thing, and like Francisco said,

> sometimes

> a scary thing...to suddenly get so much attention.

> I'm fortunate, in that, even when I was 261 lbs., I

> have always been pretty attractive. So, I always

> got

> attention from certain men (not those with an

> aversion

> to extra lbs., but there are plenty of men out

> there

> who aren't so single-minded about body size, who

> are

> more " face people " .) I've also always had women

> friends who are very attractive.

>

> But, let me tell you...when I lost all of my

> weight,

> it was a strange thing. It hearkened back to when

> I

> was 20, young, thin and a PYT. I'm not joking,

> suddenly men were running to get the door for me.

> That's not an exaggeration. My coworkers, who had

> always been comfortable around me, were suddenly

> shy

> and blushy when they talked to me. For Pete's

> sake,

> even now that I'm pregnant, I have men offering me

> thier phone numbers, asking me out on dates,

> telling

> me I'm beautiful. At the wedding I went to in

> Sweden,

> I had a multi-millionaire telling me that I

> shouldn't

> settle for anything less than a super rich man,

> because I could definitely get whoever I wanted.

> (I

> wanted to barf on his shoes at that point, but

> whatever.)

>

> At first, it's scary, and then it's exciting, and

> then

> it's tempting...and then, you know what? You get

> used

> to it. People are attracted to pretty things.

> They

> love little cute puppies. But that doesn't mean

> they

> have what it takes to take care of that puppy for

> the

> long haul, you know?

>

> I am glad that people find me attractive. I

> expected

> that men probably would. What I've found to be

> more

> bizarre is that women are MUCH more friendly to me

> now. They want to be my friend. They come up to

> me

> on the street and comment on my clothes, my hair,

> my

> jewelry, and yes, even my " darling figure " (go

> figure.) I live in the Marina, which is full of

> beautiful and vapid people...and the want to be

> around

> beautiful people. It makes them seem more

> attractive,

> I guess. It's weird.

>

> And for a little while I kind of resented it. Not

> in

> a Stockard Channing way...but generally. I mean, I

> hadn't changed. It was only my exterior that

> changed,

> so what was up?

>

> Then I did a reality check. Of COURSE I had

> changed.

> I am much more confident, light-hearted, open...not

> self-conscious. I wear more adventurous

> clothing...I

> smile more. I'm more approachable. I have changed

> a

> LOT. And so that combination of my exterior and

> interior is simply more attractive to everybody.

>

> I always had this very great career...I'm highly

> successful, I travel a lot, I'm well-rounded in my

> interests...but like it or not, my extra weight

> sort

> of acted like a barrier, or a sign that said,

> " She's

> not completely altogether...she's got something

> holding her back. " For me, that was true. My

> weight

> was a badge of my past. I was molested as a

> child...this was a way to keep men away from me, to

> protect myself. It was a barrier...and essentially

> an

> open wound. People could sense that.

>

> Now, i've triumphed over that...and there is no

> more

> barrier. And so I can be open, i can flirt...etc.

>

> You said something about sometimes being

> " dismissive " .

> I don't know if you meant in the way of " Who me?

> Come on, you must be kidding.. " or if you meant in

> the

> way that it is hard for you to imagie that someone

> might have a serious crush on you, and thus you

> should

> be more careful of their feelings. I had that

> happen.

> It was so hard for me to imagine that I would

> really

> matter to anyone on that deep level...and I was

> glib...and I hurt their feelings. That wasn't

> cool.

>

> So now, I flirt back a little bit, in a fun (but

> with

> boundaries) way. But, the second I get the sense

> that

> the other person is a bit serious, I say, " I don't

> mean to be presumptious, and forgive me if I've

> misinterpreted where you are coming from. I just

> want

> to be clear and fair...I'm very happily involved

> with

> someone I love very much...and even though I flirt

> casually, that's the limit of what I will do. And

> in

> fact, I would flirt in exactly the same way right

> in

> front of him. I'm not meaning to embarrass you,

> and

> it's possible that you are on exactly the same

> page.

> I just wanted to get that out there so that we can

> avoid any misunderstandings. "

>

> It works.

>

> Lots of people go nuts when they lose weight. They

> go

> on a bender...not with food, not with alcohol, but

> with people other than their significant others.

> You

> know what that does? It clouds your happiness

> about

> your weight loss. It starts making you feel like

> you

> don't deserve the weightloss. Like if you want to

> keep your marriage, you better put on a few lbs. to

> protect yourself from temptation. It takes away

> something from a fantastic gift...and it turns it a

> little ugly.

>

> So, please...think hard. Your weight loss is about

> having a long and healthy life. If you are happy

> in

> your marriage...even if it's been in a rut...you

> have

> the power to spice that marriage up. For goodness'

> sake...once your wife gets over feeling threatened

> by

> your changes (if she does) she's going to be even

> more

> attracted to you. You'll have the chance to have

> all

> kinds of new experiences with her, because you

> won't

> be limited by your weight...you can pick up new

> hobbies together, become more active...and as a

> result, have a better relationship in the sack.

>

> Keep her a part of your journey. Explain the

> changes

> going on inside as well as outside...how you are

> feeling about all of it. Be honest.

>

> In the end, you will have the pot of REAL

> gold...and

> it won't be tarnished by guilt and regrets about

> how

>

=== message truncated ===

[Guest guest]

Yes it is, I remember well. My youngest is 30, but I still remember my pregnancies with very fond thoughts. A woman is never as beautiful as when she is carrying a child. I believe children are definately a gift from God. Rest as much as possible, and take care of little bambina. Robynn VanPatten wrote: Why thank you, That's a nice compliment. I'm feeling pretty great...except I'm so tired it isn't even funny!! Yikes. The last few nights I've fallen

asleep at 8 p.m., and slept until 7 a.m.! And I'm still tired after that. It's a lot of work to make a baby!!! Robynn --- Rhinehart <raedeniser (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: > Robynn, you missed your calling, Sweets. You > shoulda been a shrink!! You're so smart, as my son > says, "wicked smaht". What youv'e said is exactly > true. How are you feeling little mama? --On > Angel Wings > > Robynn VanPatten <robynnsf (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: > : > > A line from an Indigo Girl's song (The Power of > Two) > that I use as a mantra: "All the shiny little > trinkets of temptation, something new instead of > something old. All you gotta do is scratch beneath > the surface and it's

Fool's Gold." > > It's a heady thing, and like Francisco said, > sometimes > a scary thing...to suddenly get so much attention. > I'm fortunate, in that, even when I was 261 lbs., I > have always been pretty attractive. So, I always > got > attention from certain men (not those with an > aversion > to extra lbs., but there are plenty of men out > there > who aren't so single-minded about body size, who > are > more "face people".) I've also always had women > friends who are very attractive. > > But, let me tell you...when I lost all of my > weight, > it was a strange thing. It hearkened back to when > I > was 20, young, thin and a PYT. I'm not joking, > suddenly men were running to get the door for me. > That's not an exaggeration. My coworkers, who had > always been comfortable

around me, were suddenly > shy > and blushy when they talked to me. For Pete's > sake, > even now that I'm pregnant, I have men offering me > thier phone numbers, asking me out on dates, > telling > me I'm beautiful. At the wedding I went to in > Sweden, > I had a multi-millionaire telling me that I > shouldn't > settle for anything less than a super rich man, > because I could definitely get whoever I wanted. > (I > wanted to barf on his shoes at that point, but > whatever.) > > At first, it's scary, and then it's exciting, and > then > it's tempting...and then, you know what? You get > used > to it. People are attracted to pretty things. > They > love little cute puppies. But that doesn't mean > they > have what it takes to take care of that puppy for > the > long haul, you know? > > I am glad that people find me attractive. I > expected > that men probably would. What I've found to be > more > bizarre is that women are MUCH more friendly to me > now. They want to be my friend. They come up to > me > on the street and comment on my clothes, my hair, > my > jewelry, and yes, even my "darling figure" (go > figure.) I live in the Marina, which is full of > beautiful and vapid people...and the want to be > around > beautiful people. It makes them seem more > attractive, > I guess. It's weird. > > And for a little while I kind of resented it. Not > in > a Stockard Channing way...but generally. I mean, I > hadn't changed. It was only my exterior that > changed, > so what was up? > > Then I did a reality check. Of COURSE I

had > changed. > I am much more confident, light-hearted, open...not > self-conscious. I wear more adventurous > clothing...I > smile more. I'm more approachable. I have changed > a > LOT. And so that combination of my exterior and > interior is simply more attractive to everybody. > > I always had this very great career...I'm highly > successful, I travel a lot, I'm well-rounded in my > interests...but like it or not, my extra weight > sort > of acted like a barrier, or a sign that said, > "She's > not completely altogether...she's got something > holding her back." For me, that was true. My > weight > was a badge of my past. I was molested as a > child...this was a way to keep men away from me, to > protect myself. It was a barrier...and essentially > an > open wound. People

could sense that. > > Now, i've triumphed over that...and there is no > more > barrier. And so I can be open, i can flirt...etc. > > You said something about sometimes being > "dismissive". > I don't know if you meant in the way of "Who me? > Come on, you must be kidding.." or if you meant in > the > way that it is hard for you to imagie that someone > might have a serious crush on you, and thus you > should > be more careful of their feelings. I had that > happen. > It was so hard for me to imagine that I would > really > matter to anyone on that deep level...and I was > glib...and I hurt their feelings. That wasn't > cool. > > So now, I flirt back a little bit, in a fun (but > with > boundaries) way. But, the second I get the sense > that > the other person is

a bit serious, I say, "I don't > mean to be presumptious, and forgive me if I've > misinterpreted where you are coming from. I just > want > to be clear and fair...I'm very happily involved > with > someone I love very much...and even though I flirt > casually, that's the limit of what I will do. And > in > fact, I would flirt in exactly the same way right > in > front of him. I'm not meaning to embarrass you, > and > it's possible that you are on exactly the same > page. > I just wanted to get that out there so that we can > avoid any misunderstandings." > > It works. > > Lots of people go nuts when they lose weight. They > go > on a bender...not with food, not with alcohol, but > with people other than their significant others. > You > know what that does? It clouds

your happiness > about > your weight loss. It starts making you feel like > you > don't deserve the weightloss. Like if you want to > keep your marriage, you better put on a few lbs. to > protect yourself from temptation. It takes away > something from a fantastic gift...and it turns it a > little ugly. > > So, please...think hard. Your weight loss is about > having a long and healthy life. If you are happy > in > your marriage...even if it's been in a rut...you > have > the power to spice that marriage up. For goodness' > sake...once your wife gets over feeling threatened > by > your changes (if she does) she's going to be even > more > attracted to you. You'll have the chance to have > all > kinds of new experiences with her, because you > won't > be limited by your weight...you can

pick up new > hobbies together, become more active...and as a > result, have a better relationship in the sack. > > Keep her a part of your journey. Explain the > changes > going on inside as well as outside...how you are > feeling about all of it. Be honest. > > In the end, you will have the pot of REAL > gold...and > it won't be tarnished by guilt and regrets about > how > === message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Hi, !

Although I've snipped it to save on bandwidth, Robynn gave a lot of

excellent advice (as usual), and so have many other folks. Now I'm

going to charge in with a slightly different view. Here's what I'm

reading into your question. How do you know when someone is just

enjoying your company, and how do you know when they're actually

lusting after your bod - and how do you keep the two from becoming

confused by everyone involved?

First off, flirting is fun. That's as true for those of us who have

been happily married for 24 years as it is for the single guys and

gals out there. It's not always a sexual come-on. It can be a way

for someone to let you know that they appreciate you, and for you to

reciprocate, and it provides some wonderful ego-strokes and good

feelings. That's true whether or not there's any possibility of a

romantic entanglement developing - I've flirted happily and

enthusiastically with any number of gay guys over the years, to the

enjoyment of everyone involved.

Flirting is also a skill that many MO folks never really have a

chance to develop. Some do; I was lucky to fall into a group in my

early 20's where flirting was developed to a high art by some

people, and where size wasn't particularly relevant in most

situations. But I suspect it's far more common for most people to

be nervous/suspicious/uncomfortable with flirting - particularly

with being on the receiving end of it. It ties in with all our

feelings that we're not good enough to " deserve " it. We don't learn

how to be playful with our compliments, how to banter back and forth

in a way that lets the other person know we appreciate them. And

when we do break through that barrier or when we recognize that

someone else is doing it, we suddenly wonder what's behind it all

and worry about the emotions that might spark it.

In my marriage, the way we've dealt with this over the years was to

be really open and up-front about the whole matter with each other.

I've had guys flirt with me, and me with them, and my husband has

been in the same situation. We don't try to hide it from each other -

in fact, we talk about it. Our attitude is that it's the trust

between us that's most important; if we tried to hide it, then we'd

wonder why the other person felt the need to hide something.

Now, if you're really more worried about the other person's feelings

and how to tell if they're flirting " seriously " or not, that's a

different matter. Robynn's given you the best advice on this, and

it's pretty much in line with my own experience. I've only had that

happen once or twice, but if you suspect that the other person isn't

just flirting platonically you have to set the limits. You can do it

subtly, by talking more about your wife, by letting it be really

obvious that you're committed to her, etc., or you can be tactfully

blunt and actually come out and SAY you're not interested in getting

involved with anyone else, but either way you have to take the lead

and make sure that you make it crystal clear where your priorities

are.

Hope this helps! Maybe my husband will weigh in with his own

opinions (pun absolutely intentional).

Cathy C.

P.S. - flirting on-line can be an EXCELLENT way to develop your

skills in a safe environment. . .

[Guest guest]

Cathy:

Very well stated. Thanks.

Francisco

>

> Hi, !

> Although I've snipped it to save on bandwidth, Robynn gave a lot of

> excellent advice (as usual), and so have many other folks. Now I'm

> going to charge in with a slightly different view. Here's what I'm

> reading into your question. How do you know when someone is just

> enjoying your company, and how do you know when they're actually

> lusting after your bod - and how do you keep the two from becoming

> confused by everyone involved?

>

> First off, flirting is fun. That's as true for those of us who have

> been happily married for 24 years as it is for the single guys and

> gals out there. It's not always a sexual come-on. It can be a way

> for someone to let you know that they appreciate you, and for you

to

> reciprocate, and it provides some wonderful ego-strokes and good

> feelings. That's true whether or not there's any possibility of a

> romantic entanglement developing - I've flirted happily and

> enthusiastically with any number of gay guys over the years, to the

> enjoyment of everyone involved.

>

> Flirting is also a skill that many MO folks never really have a

> chance to develop. Some do; I was lucky to fall into a group in my

> early 20's where flirting was developed to a high art by some

> people, and where size wasn't particularly relevant in most

> situations. But I suspect it's far more common for most people to

> be nervous/suspicious/uncomfortable with flirting - particularly

> with being on the receiving end of it. It ties in with all our

> feelings that we're not good enough to " deserve " it. We don't learn

> how to be playful with our compliments, how to banter back and

forth

> in a way that lets the other person know we appreciate them. And

> when we do break through that barrier or when we recognize that

> someone else is doing it, we suddenly wonder what's behind it all

> and worry about the emotions that might spark it.

>

> In my marriage, the way we've dealt with this over the years was to

> be really open and up-front about the whole matter with each other.

> I've had guys flirt with me, and me with them, and my husband has

> been in the same situation. We don't try to hide it from each

other -

> in fact, we talk about it. Our attitude is that it's the trust

> between us that's most important; if we tried to hide it, then we'd

> wonder why the other person felt the need to hide something.

>

> Now, if you're really more worried about the other person's

feelings

> and how to tell if they're flirting " seriously " or not, that's a

> different matter. Robynn's given you the best advice on this, and

> it's pretty much in line with my own experience. I've only had that

> happen once or twice, but if you suspect that the other person

isn't

> just flirting platonically you have to set the limits. You can do

it

> subtly, by talking more about your wife, by letting it be really

> obvious that you're committed to her, etc., or you can be tactfully

> blunt and actually come out and SAY you're not interested in

getting

> involved with anyone else, but either way you have to take the lead

> and make sure that you make it crystal clear where your priorities

> are.

>

> Hope this helps! Maybe my husband will weigh in with his own

> opinions (pun absolutely intentional).

>

> Cathy C.

>

> P.S. - flirting on-line can be an EXCELLENT way to develop your

> skills in a safe environment. . .

>

[Guest guest]

OK, as requested, I'm weighing in with my opinions. Looking at the scale, I appear to have actually gained opinions this time around. But I've been exercising my opinions a lot, so perhaps I've gained opinion muscle and lost opinion fat. I'll have to measure my opinions later today.

Seriously, though, I second everything Cathy said. Flirting can be good clean fun for everyone. If you're nervous that someone else is taking it too seriously, drop a few references to your spouse/partner/steady. If all else fails, be blunt.

If the problem is the reaction from your spouse/partner/steady, it gets more difficult. A little jealousy (as between siblings) is par for the course with people. Make sure you flirt more with him/her than with anyone else. A lot more. As long as he or she knows your attention is REALLY focussed on him or her, it should be OK. Some individuals simply cannot handle this situation, though. This is actually the norm in some cultures, and not uncommon here. It is not, IMHO, a good thing, since trust is the foundation of marriage, and this kind of jealous is really a lack of trust, but it may require marriage counselling to correct, if it is even correctable.

Ed

Re: "If you want my body"

Hi, ! Although I've snipped it to save on bandwidth, Robynn gave a lot of excellent advice (as usual), and so have many other folks. Now I'm going to charge in with a slightly different view. Here's what I'm reading into your question. How do you know when someone is just enjoying your company, and how do you know when they're actually lusting after your bod - and how do you keep the two from becoming confused by everyone involved? First off, flirting is fun. That's as true for those of us who have been happily married for 24 years as it is for the single guys and gals out there. It's not always a sexual come-on. It can be a way for someone to let you know that they appreciate you, and for you to reciprocate, and it provides some wonderful ego-strokes and good feelings. That's true whether or not there's any possibility of a romantic entanglement developing - I've flirted happily and enthusiastically with any number of gay guys over the years, to the enjoyment of everyone involved.Flirting is also a skill that many MO folks never really have a chance to develop. Some do; I was lucky to fall into a group in my early 20's where flirting was developed to a high art by some people, and where size wasn't particularly relevant in most situations. But I suspect it's far more common for most people to be nervous/suspicious/uncomfortable with flirting - particularly with being on the receiving end of it. It ties in with all our feelings that we're not good enough to "deserve" it. We don't learn how to be playful with our compliments, how to banter back and forth in a way that lets the other person know we appreciate them. And when we do break through that barrier or when we recognize that someone else is doing it, we suddenly wonder what's behind it all and worry about the emotions that might spark it.In my marriage, the way we've dealt with this over the years was to be really open and up-front about the whole matter with each other. I've had guys flirt with me, and me with them, and my husband has been in the same situation. We don't try to hide it from each other -in fact, we talk about it. Our attitude is that it's the trust between us that's most important; if we tried to hide it, then we'd wonder why the other person felt the need to hide something.Now, if you're really more worried about the other person's feelings and how to tell if they're flirting "seriously" or not, that's a different matter. Robynn's given you the best advice on this, and it's pretty much in line with my own experience. I've only had that happen once or twice, but if you suspect that the other person isn't just flirting platonically you have to set the limits. You can do it subtly, by talking more about your wife, by letting it be really obvious that you're committed to her, etc., or you can be tactfully blunt and actually come out and SAY you're not interested in getting involved with anyone else, but either way you have to take the lead and make sure that you make it crystal clear where your priorities are.Hope this helps! Maybe my husband will weigh in with his own opinions (pun absolutely intentional). Cathy C.P.S. - flirting on-line can be an EXCELLENT way to develop your skills in a safe environment. . .