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MSA/dementia?

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Peggy:

Based on our experience with Terry, my wife, and the Dx by her doc, we are

dealing with both MSA/SND and Frontal Temporal Dementia. This is based on a

recent Spect scan where the frontal lobes were seen to be hypometabolic;

i.e. not consuming the normal amount of blood of oxygen from the blood

supply. Also, the basal ganglia was seen to be damaged. What is even worse,

the MSA and FTD can be antagonistic in terms of types of symptoms.

I have been advised this dementia gradually diminishes over time the

personality and intellectual capacities of the person. In hindsight, that

has been going on for awhile with Terry.

I have also seen examples where Terry does things she has been asked not to

do and can not tell me why. It appears the executive function is diminished

in this type of dementia, which is different from the dementia associated

with Alzheimers Disease. Terry is very prone to falling and is dependent on

a walker or transport chair.

Welcome to our little club. We get all these neat little benefits at no

extra charge. Seriously, stay with us and you will learn much from a great

group of people about this very miserable set of neuro degenerative

processes. Also, hang in there and take care of your self. The toll on the

care giver can be worse than the person with the disease process.

Message: 11

Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:20:58 -0000

Subject: MSA/dementia?

I haven't posted before, but I have been reading for a couple of

weeks. My mother was diagnosed with MSA about a year ago. It took 4

neurologists to finally tell us what was going on.

My mother is currently residing in an assisted living and she is in a

wheel chair. If she tries getting up on her own she falls every

time, but no matter how many times the caregivers and I talk to her,

and she promises not to get up, she gets up. She clearly has some

dementia, but I don't see that much as a symptom with MSA from

previous postings. I'm worried sick about her falling and really

hurting herself. When I ask her why she got up, she says she doesn't

know.

Could the dementia be just an added " benefit " .

Regards,

Peggy (mom is Polly)

Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia

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Dear :

Ken's dementia was determined on autopsy to be caused by DLBD, not

MSA, but I do remember that our Neurologist told me that the improvement we

saw after starting him on Aricept was as much due to the fact that e were

keeping his seated BP at 170/100 or above as to the drug. He too became more

disoriented when his BP dropped, and I could always have a better

conversation with him if he was lying down so his BP would be high. in fact,

sometimes I made him lie down if I wanted to talk about something important.

Barbara

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,

The frontal lobe is very much involved in organizing things.

I have noticed in myself, a decline in the ability to organize steps to be

taken in performing tasks. When I try to start a project, I don't seem to

know where to start, even when the goal or objective is crystal clear.

I will also add a welcome to Peggy. Sorry you have a need to be here, but

welcome.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

MSA/dementia?

>

>

> I haven't posted before, but I have been reading for a couple of

> weeks. My mother was diagnosed with MSA about a year ago. It took 4

> neurologists to finally tell us what was going on.

>

>

> My mother is currently residing in an assisted living and she is in a

> wheel chair. If she tries getting up on her own she falls every

> time, but no matter how many times the caregivers and I talk to her,

> and she promises not to get up, she gets up. She clearly has some

> dementia, but I don't see that much as a symptom with MSA from

> previous postings. I'm worried sick about her falling and really

> hurting herself. When I ask her why she got up, she says she doesn't

> know.

>

>

> Could the dementia be just an added " benefit " .

> Regards,

> Peggy (mom is Polly)

>

>

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Jim and all:

One thing I forgot to mention:

There is a version of FTD known as FTDP-17 that is genetic. The P is for

Parkinsonianism and the 17 is the specific gene that causes it. There is

no feasible genetic test to identify it while one is living. Of course, a

pathologic exam of the brain will do it. There is a research test to

identify it but it is not reliable in a clinical setting. We have some

concern that we may be dealing with this with Terry. Also, her brother

died with what was thought to be PSP two years ago. We were not smart

enough to have a post mortem done at the time. We live and learn. Terry

has agreed to a brain exam after death.

Message: 4

Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:50:31 -0600

Subject: Re: MSA/dementia?

,

The frontal lobe is very much involved in organizing things.

I have noticed in myself, a decline in the ability to organize steps to be

taken in performing tasks. When I try to start a project, I don't seem to

know where to start, even when the goal or objective is crystal clear.

I will also add a welcome to Peggy. Sorry you have a need to be here, but

welcome.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia

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Peggy,

Dementia is not usually a symptom of MSA. Many MSA patients are

stubborn about things like getting up without help and falling, but that

is not really dementia. MSA patients DO often lose short term memory

when they get an infection.

There are disorders similar to MSA such as PSP, LBD and CBGD which do

have dementia as a symptom. In many cases, Aricept has helped them with

the dementia. I would always ask the doctor about infection if it

(dementia or loss of memory) is acommanpied by movement problems or any

other sudden onset of new symptoms.

Take care, Bill Werre

==============

pjm19502001 wrote:

>I haven't posted before, but I have been reading for a couple of

>weeks. My mother was diagnosed with MSA about a year ago. It took 4

>neurologists to finally tell us what was going on.

>

>My mother is currently residing in an assisted living and she is in a

>wheel chair. If she tries getting up on her own she falls every

>time, but no matter how many times the caregivers and I talk to her,

>and she promises not to get up, she gets up. She clearly has some

>dementia, but I don't see that much as a symptom with MSA from

>previous postings. I'm worried sick about her falling and really

>hurting herself. When I ask her why she got up, she says she doesn't

>know.

>

>Could the dementia be just an added " benefit " .

>Regards,

>Peggy (mom is Polly)

>

>

>

>

>If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

>unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

>

>shydrager-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi ,

Thanks for your response and I should have been more detailed regarding

dementia as opposed to short term memory (which Tom has also). Some

examples; he woke yesterday morning saying there was a 12 pound steak that

was his and someone threw it on the floor and I needed to pick it up. When I

said there was no 12 lb. steak on the floor, he said well it's only 6 lbs.

after it's cooked on the grill. He is also very convinced (we've had several

days of going over this) that he has $100 worth of Canadian quarters that is

in a box in the trunk of his car (that he hasn't driven in over 8 months).

He insisted he bought a chocolate milkshake with some of it recently. (He

has been bedbound since July). I'm not really sure what the term " dementia "

really includes but if any of you can enlighten me/us, I'd really appreciate

it.

PS. Tom also thinks he has two wives...we both have the name, Sandy, and we

look so much alike. One of us is so nice, the other grumpy and mean.

For this Thanksgiving, I thank God for my sense of humor. A Thanksgiving

prayer:

For all that that has been given, we thank you God. For all that has been

taken, we thank you God. For all that is left, we thank you God.

Love to all,

Sandy B.

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How insidious and mysterious this MSA !! I don't know if Tom's BP affects

his dementia (he has sleep apnia but will not wear " that noisey mask " ). Once

he is sitting up he seems clearer than when he is lying down. It's hard to

carry on any conversation with him as he just doesn't seem interested (unless

of course it's about the Oakland Raiders...he's always been a major fan).

Sandy B.

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Bill,

My mother's neuro has told me that the dementia is a symptom. I know

that she isn't trying to be stubborn, because she gets very upset

when you ask why she got up. She says I don't know, over and over. My

mother and I have always been very close and she is nothing like she

was. About 4 years ago she fell (before diagnosis) and broke her leg

badly and had to have surgery. They kept her in the hospital for

almost 2 weeks and that is when I noticed the change. Even

hallucinated somewhat.

I don't know what those other disorders you mentioned are

(PSP,LBD,etc.) I will ask the Dr. at next visit in January.

Thank you for yours and everyone else for replying. It is so hard

for me to see my mother like this. I'm an only child and dealing

with this alone, as her husband of 25 years divorced her so he

wouldn't have to pay for care.

Regards,Peggy

>

> >I haven't posted before, but I have been reading for a couple of

> >weeks. My mother was diagnosed with MSA about a year ago. It took

4

> >neurologists to finally tell us what was going on.

> >

> >My mother is currently residing in an assisted living and she is

in a

> >wheel chair. If she tries getting up on her own she falls every

> >time, but no matter how many times the caregivers and I talk to

her,

> >and she promises not to get up, she gets up. She clearly has some

> >dementia, but I don't see that much as a symptom with MSA from

> >previous postings. I'm worried sick about her falling and really

> >hurting herself. When I ask her why she got up, she says she

doesn't

> >know.

> >

> >Could the dementia be just an added " benefit " .

> >Regards,

> >Peggy (mom is Polly)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> >unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> >

> >shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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: this may be a repeat as the first one came back.

Check out http://www.parkinson.org/dementiasame.htm I found this to be an

excellent description that is consistent with what Terry's neuro is telling

us. I got this sometime ago from Dr. Lieberman's daily list of FAQs at this

same site; i.e. the

" Ask the Doctor digest " .

Message: 25

Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:34:48 EST

From: sandybierman@...

Subject: Re: MSA/dementia?

Hi ,

Thanks for your response and I should have been more detailed regarding

dementia as opposed to short term memory (which Tom has also). Some

examples; he woke yesterday morning saying there was a 12 pound steak that

was his and someone threw it on the floor and I needed to pick it up. When I

said there was no 12 lb. steak on the floor, he said well it's only 6 lbs.

after it's cooked on the grill. He is also very convinced (we've had several

days of going over this) that he has $100 worth of Canadian quarters that is

in a box in the trunk of his car (that he hasn't driven in over 8 months).

He insisted he bought a chocolate milkshake with some of it recently. (He

has been bedbound since July). I'm not really sure what the term " dementia "

really includes but if any of you can enlighten me/us, I'd really appreciate

it.

PS. Tom also thinks he has two wives...we both have the name, Sandy, and we

look so much alike. One of us is so nice, the other grumpy and mean.

For this Thanksgiving, I thank God for my sense of humor. A Thanksgiving

prayer:

For all that that has been given, we thank you God. For all that has been

taken, we thank you God. For all that is left, we thank you God.

Love to all,

Sandy B.

Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia

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