Re: God/religion

[Guest guest]

We do have a list rule regarding discussion of religion and politics:

Here's how it's written:

---

4. Do not debate your religious/political views on this list. You

may incorporate your religion/politics into your feelings about

surgery/family/life in general as long as it's not a post focused

entirely on religion/politics with no other intent.

---

So, I think the discussion as it exists is fine. Maybe 's concern is

because Dr. Elariny is Muslim, and she doesn't want to see the

discussion take a negative turn due to current world event? I don't

know. In any case, I think the discussion of how our decision for

surgery is affected by our religious feelings is fine. Beyond that, we

need to be careful not to debate religion in an of itself.

Sincerely,

Magruder, site administrator

Duodenal Switch Information Zone

http://www.duodenalswitch.com

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

> God/religion

>

>

> M wrote: I don't want to see that information posted to the

> lists.

>

>

> If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists " then

> don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

> right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of what a

> person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

>

>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Just make sure you guys don't confuse the s! I am also M. but I

sign " in KC " and I have no problems with religious discussions in any

e-group!

M. in KC

God/religion

M wrote: I don't want to see that information posted to the

lists.

If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists " then

don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of what a

person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

As far as I know, my preferences are as valid as the preferences of

anyone else. I think the correct thing for me to do is to state my

preferences. Saying I don't want something is far from stopping it

from happening. Rather it is my way of being honest about my

feelings and concerns. People will post what they chose to post.

Just as I did and just as you did. I'm not certain that my statement

that I don't want to see such things on this list is any more

presumptious than your post suggesting that I ought not to say such a

thing. Just an itty bitty double standard there, eh?

I've been on lists for enough years to see some very acrimonious list

wars result from religious arguments. If this doesn't happen here

then I will have a new experience to help change my viewpoint of such

issues. I am going on my experience of participation on many many

lists including numerous WLS ones for about a decade. I love this

list and hate the wars that have made it hard for many of the post

ops to stay on this list and participate.

/Seattle

I don't want to see that information posted to the

> lists.

>

>

> If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists "

then

> don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

> right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of what

a

> person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . It is indeed where the conversation may go (and I

recall some nasty list wars in the past) that concerns me. If the

list members are able to remain civil (unless telling me off, of

course LOL) then my fears are just my own fears.

I too checked the list rules to see how the religious thing was

worded. I thought that talking about the religion of a surgeon was

pretty close to over the line. But personal concerns about beliefs

and surgery may make a lot of sense to be talked about here-- if it

stays as that, and does not get negative. If there is anything that

people are more passionate about and disagree about more than

religion, I'm not certain what it could be. Maybe WLS.

Thanks for the rules. Appreciate you keeping an eye on this. You

know how it is when you got to the place where you said you couldn't

do one more diet? Well I guess that is where I am about one more

list war. So I am hoping for prevention, not cure.

/Seattle

I don't want to see that information posted to the

> > lists.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

M in KC,

Just be sure and sign that location after your name. Don't want to

have any of the wonderful insults intended for me go to you. I have

a collection and just added a room to my house so I can post all of

them on the wall in gold frames. LOL

/Seattle

I don't want to see that information posted to the

> lists.

>

>

> If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists " then

> don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

> right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of what

a

> person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

All of this seems a little overdone. As of your latest posting, the

conversation was pretty much finished, until, well, YOU continued

it. I hope that our civilized, appropriate, (maybe even helpful--

GASP!) talk about religion has helped " change your viewpoint about

such issues " being discussed on an internet list.

BTW, when your " preferences " walk the thin line of possibly

attempting to censor someone, then your " preferences " ARE NOT as

valid as anyone else's.

With love from , who, despite dealing with this kind of shit,

is STILL glad that she initiated a worthwhile conversation even

though many don't have the stomach, mind, or tolerance for it.

I don't want to see that information posted to the

> > lists.

> >

> >

> > If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists "

> then

> > don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> > questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

> > right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of

what

> a

> > person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

[Guest guest]

,

Regarding your question to me:

>Is not entitled to respond to the slams and or opinions thrown

>in her direction? Bull pucky.

Yes, of course she is entitled to respond. HOWEVER, since she

herself has claimed NOT to be much bothered by criticism from others

and yet is admittedly VERY bothered by religious discussion, then I

think she should have let the conversation die since it was on its

last leg anyway. Instead, she chose to respond to " slams " (that

presumably DON'T bother her), and didn't respond to the

important " content " of the conversation (that presumably DID bother

her).

I will not be responding to any more posts about this, although it is

very hard not to do so. I think it would be polite for you and

to do the same. I hope that you, , and others who are bothered

by RELEVANT and, according to the list rules, APPROPRIATE religious

conversation as it pertains to WLS will ignore messages with subject

titles like " GOD. " It's not like they've sneaked in under another

heading or someone forces you to open them.

If you have any more questions or comments directed to me personally,

please email me privately and we can continue on our own.

I don't want to see that information posted to

> the

> > > > lists.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If you don't want to " see that information posted to the

lists "

> > > then

> > > > don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> > > > questions they want to of this support group. You don't have

> the

> > > > right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss

of

> > what

> > > a

> > > > person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high

horse.

[Guest guest]

Theresa,

A praying pagan??? I like that pray for me LOL

*hugs*

Lisbeth

Theresa wrote: ,

I agree wholeheartedly. There is a difference between offering

prayers, or making a religious statement as opposed to going into

huge theological discussions and remarking on someone else's

religious views. As far as I am concerned, if the discussion gets

too far out there, I will probably comment that I think its bullshit,

as I suppose my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. Never

quite understood how freedom of speech only goes in the direction of

majority view! The disenting view is always stifled. C'est la vie.

I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am happy to

pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

LOL,

theresa

I don't want to see that information posted to the

> > lists.

> >

> >

> > If you don't want to " see that information posted to the lists "

> then

> > don't read the lists. People have the right to ask whatever

> > questions they want to of this support group. You don't have the

> > right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss of

what

> a

> > person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high horse.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thank you, , well said!!

> ,

>

> Regarding your question to me:

>

> >Is not entitled to respond to the slams and or opinions

thrown

> >in her direction? Bull pucky.

>

> Yes, of course she is entitled to respond. HOWEVER, since she

> herself has claimed NOT to be much bothered by criticism from

others

> and yet is admittedly VERY bothered by religious discussion, then I

> think she should have let the conversation die since it was on its

> last leg anyway. Instead, she chose to respond to " slams " (that

> presumably DON'T bother her), and didn't respond to the

> important " content " of the conversation (that presumably DID bother

> her).

>

> I will not be responding to any more posts about this, although it

is

> very hard not to do so. I think it would be polite for you and

> to do the same. I hope that you, , and others who are bothered

> by RELEVANT and, according to the list rules, APPROPRIATE religious

> conversation as it pertains to WLS will ignore messages with

subject

> titles like " GOD. " It's not like they've sneaked in under another

> heading or someone forces you to open them.

>

> If you have any more questions or comments directed to me

personally,

> please email me privately and we can continue on our own.

>

>

>

> I don't want to see that information posted

to

> > the

> > > > > lists.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you don't want to " see that information posted to the

> lists "

> > > > then

> > > > > don't read the lists. People have the right to ask

whatever

> > > > > questions they want to of this support group. You don't

have

> > the

> > > > > right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss

> of

> > > what

> > > > a

> > > > > person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high

> horse.

[Guest guest]

Maybe I should restate that. Freedom of speech tends only to be

supported for the majority view. Does that sound any better?

Dissenting views are usually PC to supress.

> Theresa said:

>

> " . . . freedom of speech only goes in the direction of

> majority view! "

>

> If that is the situation, there is NO freedom of speech! Free

speech cannot

> stop when the subject becomes unpopular.

>

> Best-

>

> Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

If you post me on the board, I will respond in same. I don't know

why you feel you are entitled to the last word. However, as I said,

I appreciated the questions you raised for me. What I am not

interested in is a long protracted theological discussion, or

specifically, pointing out the religious views of any doctor. That,

in my opinion is not appropriate.

Also, because chooses to respond, does not mean she is bothered

or even mildly amused. I assume she is responding to comments

directed towards her.

Let's be Christian about this, shall we? This is my last comment

unless you have any more comments you would like me to respond to!

Mazel Tov,

Theresa

I don't want to see that information posted

to

> > the

> > > > > lists.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you don't want to " see that information posted to the

> lists "

> > > > then

> > > > > don't read the lists. People have the right to ask

whatever

> > > > > questions they want to of this support group. You don't

have

> > the

> > > > > right to control what a person asks. Who made you the boss

> of

> > > what

> > > > a

> > > > > person can or cannot ask on this list? Get off your high

> horse.

[Guest guest]

Finished? LOL It was a post I responded to. I read them in order

and answer as I go. I think that's the way it is done on these lists

for most of us.

As far as censoring goes, I know you can't censor me and I can't

censor you. Neither of us has that power. I can express my opinion

here and just as I have to put up with religious stuff I dislike, you

have to put up with me. Welcome to the wonderful world of lists.

Feel free to criticise me all you please. Happy to serve that need

for you. And then when you are bored, perhaps we can return to

talking about the DS, the purpose of this list. Maybe when you are a

post op you will see the value of this list in a different way.

/Seattle

> ,

>

> All of this seems a little overdone. As of your latest posting,

the

> conversation was pretty much finished, until, well, YOU continued

> it.

[Guest guest]

> I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am

happy to

> pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

>

Move over, there are a few more residents here. LOL

Blessed be

/Seattle

[Guest guest]

:

> I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am

happy to

> pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

>

Move over, there are a few more residents here. LOL

Blessed be

/Seattle

**************************************************************

MM,

LOL, that puts us up to 3 now that are public <| : )

Blesed Be and Merry Part,

Ru

[Guest guest]

WOW!

Having messed with wicca (witchcraft) myself long ago, I'm glad to

know this about you three.

> :

> > I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am

> happy to

> > pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

> >

>

> Move over, there are a few more residents here. LOL

>

> Blessed be

>

> /Seattle

>

>

>

> **************************************************************

> MM,

>

> LOL, that puts us up to 3 now that are public <| : )

>

> Blesed Be and Merry Part,

>

> Ru

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOW!

Having messed with wicca (witchcraft) myself long ago, I'm glad to

know this about you three.

********************************************************************

Hmm, You dont sound pleased...hard to tell in the email format.Why are you glad

to know this?

I can say that i haven't " messed with " anything. I am simply as I was raised;

values, mores, and religion.

Ru

[Guest guest]

*poking head out of lurkerville*

Ummm...make that four.

Blessed be.

Lorree

> > :

> > > I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am

> > happy to

> > > pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

> > >

> >

> > Move over, there are a few more residents here. LOL

> >

> > Blessed be

> >

> > /Seattle

> >

> >

> >

> > **************************************************************

> > MM,

> >

> > LOL, that puts us up to 3 now that are public <| : )

> >

> > Blesed Be and Merry Part,

> >

> > Ru

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

make that five

Love and Hugs Penny Kittson

Consult in Saskatoon Sask.

Dr. Calqhoun Nov 29 2001

Bilio Pancreatic Diversion/DS

Age 48 BMI 44 5' 2 "

wght now 238 lbs / wght was 120 lbs 1987

Langley British Columbia

yahoo messenger phoenixrisngca

http://phoenixrisng.www6.50megs.com

http://ca.geocities.com/phoenixrisngca

[Guest guest]

> WOW!

> Having messed with wicca (witchcraft) myself long ago, I'm glad to

> know this about you three.

,

Could you explain how this comment falls within the purpose of this

list which is the DS surgery? How does it reflect your feelings,

fears, concerns or experience with the DS surgery?

Jo

[Guest guest]

ROTFLMO,

Ahhh, now you accuse me of being into witchcraft? No wonder you are

a zealot!

Oh Lord, thank you so much, this was the best laugh I've had in

ages.

Hugs and prayers...(incantations?)

theresa

> > :

> > > I am more than willing to be the resident Pagan, and I am

> > happy to

> > > pray for anyone who disagrees with me!

> > >

> >

> > Move over, there are a few more residents here. LOL

> >

> > Blessed be

> >

> > /Seattle

> >

> >

> >

> > **************************************************************

> > MM,

> >

> > LOL, that puts us up to 3 now that are public <| : )

> >

> > Blesed Be and Merry Part,

> >

> > Ru

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey Ti,

Since your already whipping up incantations, can you say one for me for a safe

surgery and speedy recovery ?

*grins*

Anita

Surgery Date 11/08/01

> > WOW!

> > Having messed with wicca (witchcraft) myself long ago, I'm glad to

> > know this about you three.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/3/2001 6:38:39 PM Central Standard Time,

joswiftus@... writes:

> Could you explain how this comment falls within the purpose of this

> list which is the DS surgery? How does it reflect your feelings,

> fears, concerns or experience with the DS surgery?

>

> Jo

>

>

I'm curious about all this talk of witchcraft too. I wish everyone would

keep on topic. We're all dealing with a country of terrorists and now we are

corresponding with witches. Where are your priorities?

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/2001 8:38:13 PM Central Standard Time,

joswiftus@... writes:

> I don't know if everything has to turn into an argument. I'm not

> arguing for anything except the list staying on topic and message

> volume being kept as reasonable as possible within the purpose of the

> list.

>

> The message you seem to object to was the third time I've posted in

> the several months I've belonged to this list and was written after

> I'd been forced to delete more than 60 messages within three days

> that had nothing whatever to do with the duodenalswitch. I saw

> nothing argumentative about asking how this apparently endless thread

> was relevant to the list's stated purpose.

>

> Those people with similar morals and values who have found each other

> and want to engage in lengthy discussions of their similar morals and

> values can start their own yahoo group to do so. This list isn't

> about morals or values it is about the duodenalswitch.

>

> Jo

>

>

Thank you Jo for putting my ideas in print. I'm tired of spending the last

two days deleting instead of " learning " . Being morbidly obese is a serious

matter to me.

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

Jeanne,

My priorities are learning about WLS specifically the BPD/DS which is

why I joined a group called duodenalswitch. Speaking only for myself

I'm perfectly willing to talk to witches, bitches, christians,

moslems, jews, pagans, republicans, democrats and aboriginal pygmies

if they are talking about WLS or the BPD/DS.

I'm also willing to pick through the more than 100 messages per day

this list generates to get the information I need about WLS or the

BPD/DS. I'm much less willing to pick through dozens of messages a

day, day after day, that have absolutely nothing to do with the

purpose of this list and even under the most relaxed definition of

the term support are not supportive of other list members.

Thanks for asking,

Jo

> In a message dated 11/3/2001 6:38:39 PM Central Standard Time,

> joswiftus@y... writes:

>

>

> > Could you explain how this comment falls within the purpose of

this

> > list which is the DS surgery? How does it reflect your feelings,

> > fears, concerns or experience with the DS surgery?

> >

> > Jo

> >

> >

>

> I'm curious about all this talk of witchcraft too. I wish everyone

would

> keep on topic. We're all dealing with a country of terrorists and

now we are

> corresponding with witches. Where are your priorities?

>

> Jeanne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wicca is a religion and source of belief (and, no I am not a Wiccan, nor do

I play one on TV) and came up in the course of one member's questions on how

various denominations viewed WLS and DS in particular. The members involved,

realizing a source of commonality, reached out to one another, AS DO WE ALL

on this website. Our priorities are to reach out to each other; let's not

lose sight of that.

Marcia

Re: Re: God/religion

I'm curious about all this talk of witchcraft too. I wish everyone would

keep on topic. We're all dealing with a country of terrorists and now we

are

corresponding with witches. Where are your priorities?

Jeanne