Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I hope you enjoy rehab today. How did the walks go ?? which one worked for you ?My Dr. has ordered an over night 02 thingie.. we'll see. Love & Prayers, PeggyFlorida, IPF/UIP 2004"I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet, when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly." Hi everyone, The RT from my new O2 company was just here. We did 2 six minute walks, one with continuous flow and one with a conserver. And in about 40 minutes I have to leave to go to rehab. I'm tired already!! Hope everyone has a good day!! BethModeratorFibrotic NSIP 06/06 Dermatomyositis 11/08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Peggy, Both walks worked actually. The type of conserver they supply me with is a "demand" conserver which gives you a much bigger hit of oxygen when you inhale than some other kinds of conservers. So to walk or stroll I can do 4 continuous or 5 conserve as long as it's the right type of conserver. I pretty much knew this already but Family Medical wants their own tests for my file. When are you having the overnight test done? Beth Moderator Fibrotic NSIP 06/06 Dermatomyositis 11/08 To: Breathe-Support Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:18:01 AMSubject: Re: Crazy day I hope you enjoy rehab today. How did the walks go ?? which one worked for you ? My Dr. has ordered an over night 02 thingie.. we'll see. Love & Prayers, Peggy Florida, IPF/UIP 2004 "I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet, when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly." Hi everyone, The RT from my new O2 company was just here. We did 2 six minute walks, one with continuous flow and one with a conserver. And in about 40 minutes I have to leave to go to rehab. I'm tired already!! Hope everyone has a good day!! Beth Moderator Fibrotic NSIP 06/06 Dermatomyositis 11/08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Beth Yes its all a balancing thing. The thing is though that versus 5 lpm continuous you can use even 7 lpm demand and still save a lot of oxygen. The conservers do get better and better too. As to new things, I don't look for revolutionary, but I know one of the new POC uses a different method of delivery and conserving that they claim is even closer to continuous. Who knows. Also, the equivalents of conservers are all a matter of company rating so 5 lpm on one isn't 5 lpm on another. I don't know the comparative of some of the tank conservers. However, on liquid 4 lpm demand on Helios is equal to less that 3 lpm on a Helios Spirit. They use different breaths per minute and delivery rates. > > > > Hi everyone, > > The RT from my new O2 company was just here. We did 2 six minute > walks, one with continuous flow and one with a conserver. And in about > 40 minutes I have to leave to go to rehab. I'm tired already!! > > Hope everyone has a good day!! > > > > Beth > > Moderator > > Fibrotic NSIP 06/06 Dermatomyositis 11/08 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 This may be of interest to someone. I would just put the link only I lost it and it may not even be there anymore. I remember my respitory therapist saying something about the ratio's of 2:1 - 4/1. I am wondering if it lasts longer then you are getting a smaller shot of oxygen. Marcia C Y L I N D E R D U R A T I O N C H A R T S CHAD's LOTUS Electronic Oxygen Conserver vs. The Competitors COMPETITOR BREAKDOWN 2:1 Savings Ratio - Neumatix Gold (Cramer-Decker), CR-50 (Puritan ), O2 Express (Salter), and OPC-830 (Western) 3:1 Savings Ratio - Impulse Elite (AirSep), PD-1000 (Devilbiss), EasyPulse( Precision), Flo-rite (Pro-Basics) and O2N Demand III (Victor) 4:1 Savings Ratio - PD-4000 (DeVilbiss), Mini O2 (Medline), and ePOD (Respironics) CYLINDER DURATION CHART (in hours) M2 - 36 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 1.2 0.6 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.2 3:1 Savings Ratio 1.8 0.9 0.6 0.5 0.4 0.3 4:1 Savings Ratio 2.4 1.2 0.8 0.6 0.5 0.4 LOTUS Conserver 3.0 1.5 1.0 0.8 0.6 0.5 M4(A) - 113 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 3.8 1.9 1.3 0.9 0.8 0.6 3:1 Savings Ratio 5.7 2.8 1.9 1.4 1.1 0.9 4:1 Savings Ratio 3.8 3.8 2.5 1.9 1.5 1.3 LOTUS Conserver 9.4 4.7 3.1 2.4 1.9 1.6 M6( - 153 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 5.1 2.6 1.7 1.3 1.0 0.9 3:1 Savings Ratio 7.7 3.8 2.6 1.9 1.5 1.3 4:1 Savings Ratio 10.2 5.1 3.4 2.6 2.0 1.7 LOTUS Conserver 12.8 6.4 4.3 3.2 2.6 2.1 M6( - 164 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 5.5 2.7 1.8 1.4 1.1 0.9 3:1 Savings Ratio 8.2 4.1 2.7 2.1 1.6 1.4 4:1 Savings Ratio 10.9 5.5 3.6 2.7 2.2 1.8 LOTUS Conserver 13.7 6.8 4.6 3.4 2.7 2.3 ML6 - 171 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 5.7 2.9 1.9 1.4 1.1 1.0 3:1 Savings Ratio 8.6 4.3 2.9 2.1 1.7 1.4 4:1 Savings Ratio 11.4 5.7 3.8 2.9 2.3 1.9 LOTUS Conserver 14.3 7.1 4.8 3.6 2.9 2.4 M9© - 246 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 8.2 4.1 2.7 2.1 1.6 1.4 3:1 Savings Ratio 12.3 6.2 4.1 3.1 2.5 2.1 4:1 Savings Ratio 16.4 8.2 5.5 4.1 3.3 2.7 LOTUS Conserver 20.5 10.3 6.8 5.1 4.1 3.4 D - 425 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 14.2 7.1 4.7 3.5 2.8 2.4 3:1 Savings Ratio 21.3 10.6 7.1 5.3 4.3 3.5 4:1 Savings Ratio 28.3 14.2 9.4 7.1 5.7 4.7 LOTUS Conserver 35.4 17.7 11.8 8.9 7.1 5.9 E - 680 liter 1 lpm 2 lpm 3 lpm 4 lpm 5 lpm 6 lpm 2:1 Savings Ratio 22.7 11.3 7.6 5.7 4.5 3.8 3:1 Savings Ratio 34.0 17.0 11.3 8.5 6.8 5.7 4:1 Savings Ratio 45.3 22.7 15.1 11.3 9.1 7.6 LOTUS Conserver 56.7 28.3 18.9 14.2 11.3 9.4 CYLINDER USAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 T H E T R U T H A B O U T O X Y G E N C O N S E R V E R S Since all oxygen conservers are not the same, is your head spinning trying to figure them all out? These days it can be difficult to distinguish among the dozens of oxygen conserving devices on the market. All boast a different set of claims regarding their clinical efficacy, economic benefits, and ease of use. So, how do you decide which is the right conserver for your patient and your budget? Here's some information to help you with your decision. What is a conserving device? An oxygen conserver is a device that delivers oxygen to the patient only on inhalation rather than continuous flow, as through conventional oxygen delivery. This provides advantages to the patient in allowing them to carry smaller tanks that last longer. It also eliminates the need for an E cylinder and cart for all but the most oxygen-dependent patients, while at the same time reducing the provider's cost in oxygen refilling and home delivery. Liquid Oxygen (LOX) vs. Cylinders with Conservers Until CHAD Therapeutics introduced the first oxygen conserving device in 1986, LOX was considered the standard for ambulatory oxygen. Cooled to a liquid state for storage then rewarmed to gas upon use, liquid oxygen takes up less space than its equivalent in compressed gas, making it a favorable choice for a portable oxygen system. However, LOX has its significant drawbacks as well. Its constant evaporation, even when not in use, makes it impractical and costly for long-term storage and travel. Portables must be refilled frequently from a stationary reservoir. If this procedure is not done correctly, it can result in oxygen waste, spills, or worse, yet, burns to the patients. At the same time, compressed gas cylinders have evolved from a 20 lb. steel tank on a wheel cart to ultra-lightweight aluminum cylinders that can be as small as 9" high and weigh as little as 1.5 lbs. Combined with a highly efficient conserver, today's compressed gas cylinders can be part of a small, lightweight ambulatory system with none of LOX's drawbacks. They can be stored with no oxygen loss, and extra cylinders can be taken along for weekend or long-term travel, making them a favorable alternative to liquid oxygen. What are the types of conservers available? Electronic vs. Pneumatic Both electronic and pneumatic conservers deliver oxygen on inhalation only; however, their methods in doing so are quite different. Electronic conservers operate on a battery and use electronic circuitry to measure a dose of oxygen that is "pulsed" to the patient at the beginning of inhalation. Pneumatic devices do not require batteries and are strictly mechanical. Most deliver oxygen through the entire inhalation cycle. CHAD's electronic conservers provide a 5:1 savings ratio, while most pneumatics average about 2:1. What does a 5:1 savings vs. a 2:1 savings mean? It means that your cylinders will last five times longer than continuous flow when utilizing a CHAD electronic conserver, as compared to only twice as long as with a pneumatic conserver. Pulse vs. Demand You may hear conserving devices described as "pulse" or "demand." All electronic conservers fall into the pulse category; that is, they deliver a measured pulse of oxygen at the beginning of inspiration. Most pneumatic conservers are not true demand systems but hybrids, providing a pulse at the beginning of inspiration followed by a declining continuous flow through the rest of the inspiratory cycle. The continuous flow delivery of the hybrid conservers is simply a design characteristic of some pneumatic devices and does not contribute significantly to blood oxygen levels. By contrast, the CYPRESS OXYPneumatic conserver closely mimics the operation of an electronic conserver by delivering fixed pulse volumes without a continuous flow. Stand-Alone vs. All-in-One Some electronic conservers are stand-alone type units (signifying they do not have built-in regulators) and require the use of supply tubing to connect to the regulator on top of the cylinder. All-in-one units possess integrated regulators, thereby attaching like a regulator to the top of a post valve cylinder. Stand-alone conservers offer the versatility of using different regulators and cylinder styles. However, all-in-one conservers are easy to use and allow oxygen to be delivered with the simple turn of a dial or press of a button. Minute Volume vs. Uniform Pulse New to the market are pneumatic conservers that control minute volume delivery rather than uniform pulse delivery. Essentially, a "minute volume" conserver restricts the amount of oxygen delivered per minute and holds it within a chamber from which oxygen pulses are delivered. This delivery is said to mimic continuous flow, which has a static volume per minute as well. However, the drawback to this kind of conserver when compared to a standard "pulse" delivery is that as a patient's breath rate increases (indicating increased oxygen need) the volume of each pulse decreases. Therefore, at 40bpm a standard "pulse" conserver delivers twice as much per minute as at 20bpm, whereas a "minute volume" conserver delivers the same amount of oxygen per minute, but half as much per pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Marcia There are now better than 4:1 as there are 5:1 and even 6:1. The problem is that the oxygen providers have a lot of equipment they already own so if you want a better one you'll have to insist. I'd advise anyone using a conserver to see what brand and model it is and look it up on line to see its ratio. You might very well find yourself able to get much more time out of a cylinder with a different conserver. > > This may be of interest to someone. I would just put the link only I lost it and it may not even be there anymore. I remember my respitory therapist saying something about the ratio's of 2:1 - 4/1. I am wondering if it lasts longer then you are getting a smaller shot of oxygen. Marcia > > > > > > > > C Y L I N D E R D U > R A T I O N C H A R T S > > > > > > > > > > CHAD's LOTUS > Electronic Oxygen Conserver vs. The Competitors > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPETITOR BREAKDOWN > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio - Neumatix Gold (Cramer-Decker), > CR-50 (Puritan ), O2 Express (Salter), and OPC-830 (Western) > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio - Impulse Elite (AirSep), PD-1000 > (Devilbiss), EasyPulse( Precision), Flo-rite (Pro-Basics) and O2N Demand > III (Victor) > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio - PD-4000 (DeVilbiss), Mini O2 > (Medline), and ePOD (Respironics) > > > > > CYLINDER DURATION > CHART (in hours) > > > > > M2 - 36 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 1.2 > > > 0.6 > > > 0.4 > > > 0.3 > > > 0.2 > > > 0.2 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 1.8 > > > 0.9 > > > 0.6 > > > 0.5 > > > 0.4 > > > 0.3 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 2.4 > > > 1.2 > > > 0.8 > > > 0.6 > > > 0.5 > > > 0.4 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 3.0 > > > 1.5 > > > 1.0 > > > 0.8 > > > 0.6 > > > 0.5 > > > > > > > > > > M4(A) - 113 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 3.8 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.3 > > > 0.9 > > > 0.8 > > > 0.6 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 5.7 > > > 2.8 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.4 > > > 1.1 > > > 0.9 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 3.8 > > > 3.8 > > > 2.5 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.5 > > > 1.3 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 9.4 > > > 4.7 > > > 3.1 > > > 2.4 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.6 > > > > > > > > > > M6( - 153 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 5.1 > > > 2.6 > > > 1.7 > > > 1.3 > > > 1.0 > > > 0.9 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 7.7 > > > 3.8 > > > 2.6 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.5 > > > 1.3 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 10.2 > > > 5.1 > > > 3.4 > > > 2.6 > > > 2.0 > > > 1.7 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 12.8 > > > 6.4 > > > 4.3 > > > 3.2 > > > 2.6 > > > 2.1 > > > > > > > > > > M6( - 164 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 5.5 > > > 2.7 > > > 1.8 > > > 1.4 > > > 1.1 > > > 0.9 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 8.2 > > > 4.1 > > > 2.7 > > > 2.1 > > > 1.6 > > > 1.4 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 10.9 > > > 5.5 > > > 3.6 > > > 2.7 > > > 2.2 > > > 1.8 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 13.7 > > > 6.8 > > > 4.6 > > > 3.4 > > > 2.7 > > > 2.3 > > > > > > > > > > ML6 - 171 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 5.7 > > > 2.9 > > > 1.9 > > > 1.4 > > > 1.1 > > > 1.0 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 8.6 > > > 4.3 > > > 2.9 > > > 2.1 > > > 1.7 > > > 1.4 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 11.4 > > > 5.7 > > > 3.8 > > > 2.9 > > > 2.3 > > > 1.9 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 14.3 > > > 7.1 > > > 4.8 > > > 3.6 > > > 2.9 > > > 2.4 > > > > > > > > > > M9© - 246 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 8.2 > > > 4.1 > > > 2.7 > > > 2.1 > > > 1.6 > > > 1.4 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 12.3 > > > 6.2 > > > 4.1 > > > 3.1 > > > 2.5 > > > 2.1 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 16.4 > > > 8.2 > > > 5.5 > > > 4.1 > > > 3.3 > > > 2.7 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 20.5 > > > 10.3 > > > 6.8 > > > 5.1 > > > 4.1 > > > 3.4 > > > > > > > > > > D - 425 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 14.2 > > > 7.1 > > > 4.7 > > > 3.5 > > > 2.8 > > > 2.4 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 21.3 > > > 10.6 > > > 7.1 > > > 5.3 > > > 4.3 > > > 3.5 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 28.3 > > > 14.2 > > > 9.4 > > > 7.1 > > > 5.7 > > > 4.7 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 35.4 > > > 17.7 > > > 11.8 > > > 8.9 > > > 7.1 > > > 5.9 > > > > > > > > > > E - 680 liter > > > 1 lpm > > > 2 lpm > > > 3 lpm > > > 4 lpm > > > 5 lpm > > > 6 lpm > > > > > 2:1 Savings Ratio > > > 22.7 > > > 11.3 > > > 7.6 > > > 5.7 > > > 4.5 > > > 3.8 > > > > > 3:1 Savings Ratio > > > 34.0 > > > 17.0 > > > 11.3 > > > 8.5 > > > 6.8 > > > 5.7 > > > > > 4:1 Savings Ratio > > > 45.3 > > > 22.7 > > > 15.1 > > > 11.3 > > > 9.1 > > > 7.6 > > > > > LOTUS Conserver > > > 56.7 > > > 28.3 > > > 18.9 > > > 14.2 > > > 11.3 > > > 9.4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CYLINDER USAGE > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Sorry Gang, I had copied into the post was a very easy to read chart running horrizontally. and Yahoo spread it all over the place vertically, and unreadable. It looked fine before I sent it. Sorry about that. Oh Well. Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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