Re: Re: New to SCD................bifidus and VSL#3

[Guest guest]

Here's the thing, Steve. Bifidus is good for some people with IBD, but not

everyone.

For some people it causes serious problems of overgrowth. And you can't know

in advance. Since SCD is dieting advice for people with a raft of illnesses

caused

by many variations in genetic mutations, it cannot officially endorse bifidus

because

it has proven detrimental to some people in the IBD family, including Marilyn,

who is

very outspoken about it.

If someone takes it and it works for them, that's obviously good. But it can't

be generally

recommended on the site because it will cause problems for some others that can

take

quite a while to correct.

Also, healthy people simply have more latitude about what works in their guts.

And

are not subject to auto-immune over-responses if bacteria penetrate through the

intestinal cell walls where they are not supposed to go, the way people with

auto-

immune IBD are.

I took VSL for a while. ly, I'm not sure what effect it had, if any. I

know that

on Healing Crow pointed out at one point that what is being sold now and is

available is not the proprietary mixture that was tested - so she was

unimpressed

by that - I believe she didn't think it helped her in the end. Also, it's a

really

expensive habit to get into. But that's just by the bye, not an argument one

way or

another, if it is actually helping.

Mara

>

> Elaine Gottscahall said herself that she wasn't sure about bifidus so she

erred on the side of caution and said it was illegal. There are different views

but my view and indeed a lot of doctors that probiotics and bifidus are good for

us. After all they live in a healthy perosn's gut. Indeed many docotors now

think that IBD is caused by a compromised gut flora so taking anything to

restore the proper gut flora is a good thing. VSL#3 is the most potent probiotic

on the market at 450 billion per capsule.

>

> Steve

> SCD - 5mths

>

>

>>

>>> never heard of vsl#3..........how did you find out it was illegal?

>>

>>

>> It seems to be recommended by a lot of different doctors/people, but

>> it has bifidus in it (I think?) which isn't SCD legal.

>>

>> Peace =)

>> Alyssa 16 yo

>> UC April 2008, dx Sept 2008

>> SCD June 2009 (restarted)

>> Azathioprine 75 mg 1x per day

>> Prednisone 30 mg 1x per day

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 07:00 AM 5/11/2010, you wrote:

Elaine Gottscahall said herself

that she wasn't sure about bifidus so she erred on the side of caution

and said it was illegal. There are different views but my view and indeed

a lot of doctors that probiotics and bifidus are good for us. After all

they live in a healthy perosn's gut. Indeed many docotors now think that

IBD is caused by a compromised gut flora so taking anything to restore

the proper gut flora is a good thing. VSL#3 is the most potent probiotic

on the market at 450 billion per capsule.

I have observed, over the nearly nine years I've been following SCD, that

bifidus frequently causes flares.

I've gotten hold of it twice -- once a deliberate experiment based on

comments like " bifidus is GOOD for you! " and once

accidentally.

Both times I had vicious gut cramps and explosive diarrhea.

VSL #3 is NOT SCD legal.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

has anyone ever taken Primal Defense by Garden of Life and is it legal for SCD > Mara - thanks for your reply, very interesting. How do you know that Bifidus causes serious overgrowth?People have piped up and reported that news back from stool tests. > I am not extolling the virtues of VSL#3, far from it in fact. Many people take all sorts of probiotics and get varying results. The difficulty is finding the one that suits you and that is so hard as their are many, many strains.> Some people are deficient in Bifidus (me for one having had a stool test). I have just read a research paper that argues that people who have IBD and other gut problems are likely to be deficient in bifidus. See, here's the thing - there are so many different forms of IBD from so many different genetic mutational causes, that I don't think generalizing here is helpful.At this point, the state of the science is like the old homily where 10 blind

people are describing what an elephant "looks like" and they each are touchinga different part, and all their descriptions are utterly unlike. Maybe in 10-20 years, when all the causes of IBD have been discovered in the genome. > Of course every one is different and indeed a lot of people on SCD cannot tolerate yogurt which is one of the staple things of the diet.> This is an SCD site and I accept that we must follow the 'rules' of the diet but I was merley pointing out that even Elaine herself wasn't sure about Bifidus and things might have moved on since then.Oh I agree with you, there. I was really exercised by this, too, during the months I firststarted SCD - also about the fact that there was no mechanism in place to check fornew products that might be legal. Now, I don't care so much. > We moan about doctors who have their head stuck in the sand so perhaps we should not be guilty of

doing the same thing.> There was a lot of talk here about having tinned tomatoes recently and I believe that the people involved decided that certain tinned tomaotes were ok which seems reasonable to me. However BTVC says that tinned tomatoes are illegal, surely it is only right that we move forward in our thinking.> I know that Marilyn is against Bifidus and of course she is certainly entitled to her opinion but please correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Marilyn have IBS as opposed to IBD? It may well be that Marilyn has SIBO. I am sure Marilyn will now join in here.> So Mara, thanks for your well meaning advice but I hope you would agree that certain things are not black and white and even Elaine had her doubts about whether Bifidus was illegal.I don't think anything about this is black and white and I also believe, from anecdotes I've heard, that some forms of bifidus can help some people as well as that it

hurtsothers. If you know for sure it helps you, take it. And I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat if it continues to work for you. Just keep in mind there might be some problems down the road. So if your healing gets to a certain point then plateaus off or even goes backward, this is something to keep in mind.Regards,Mara> Regards> Steve> > >>>> >>>>> never heard of vsl#3....... ...how did you find out it was illegal?>>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to be recommended by a lot of different doctors/people, but >>>> it has bifidus in it (I think?) which isn't SCD legal.>>>> >>>> Peace =)>>>> Alyssa 16 yo>>>> UC April 2008, dx Sept 2008>>>> SCD June 2009 (restarted)>>>> Azathioprine 75 mg 1x per day>>>>

Prednisone 30 mg 1x per day>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>>> >>>

[Guest guest]

At 07:44 AM 5/12/2010, you wrote:

I will echo what everyone says

regardless of legal vs. illegal, we all know our own bodies and what

works for one may not for another and vice versa. I respect and eat SCD

but stay open to what helps me.

I appreciate the open discussions about things that are posted on this

board and continue to learn new things from it.

,

I don't have a problem with reasonable discussions. I do have a problem

with someone who asks about an illegal product and is told, " Great

stuff... go right ahead! It's the strongest probiotic on the

market! "

Strong is not necessarily better.

As for your intolerance of yogurt, yes, some people have difficulty with

dairy products that way. So a probiotic capsule may be what's needed.

Just for curiosity's sake, did you try any of the LEGAL probiotics before

going to the illegal VSL#3? And are you aware that VSL#3 contains

illegals in addition to the non-permitted bacteria which could be a

problem?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

,

Have you tried LDN? It also works well with SCD while

improving on SCD's improvement.

Mara

> Yes, I tried many things before taking an SCD illegal (VSL3), which I was

aware of. I tried the Acidopholis from Lucy's Kitchen and that didn't do

anything for me. I tried a few Tier 1 drugs (except steroids) and those nearly

put me in my death bed. And by my own choice, I do not want to take prednisone

or any other " heavy duty " drugs. SCD has made life manageable, but it has not

solely healed me. I think I am one of the people that fits into that small

percentage where SCD does not work 100%. SCD is certainly a healthier and

smarter way to eat, which I do, but I needed something more, just like those who

take meds. For weeks I ate just homemade chicken broth and plain meat/poultry

with no improvements. So for me personally, a combination of VSL3 and SCD is a

good combination. And it sounds like many people do a combo of SCD & meds, so

I stand behind whatever works.