Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 , I really don't know. What did CT have to say during 's appointment yesterday? I know from my own experience taking Maysa to both places that CT's measurements were always a bit better than those taken by the STARscanner. For example, if CT said that her CI was 96%, the STARscanner put her at 98%... Did they recommend a band for her? Leila,Maysa, 17.5 mo, DOC band Grad 5.29.09 www.mymaysa.wordpress.com From: melanie.watson@... <melanie.watson@...>Subject: Measurement Error"Plagiocephaly" <Plagiocephaly >Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Actually, CT said that she was 86.2, which is way better than her exit scan of 92.2. It's hard for me to know what they means. Could there really be a 6 percentage point error in their measurements or have we seen some improvement (although maybe not that much), either naturally from my at-home CST exercises (done sporadically) or from wearing the band for 5 additional weeks at night. CT DID NOT recommend a band for her because of her age and because they did not feel that her case is that significant. They said that she is a case where her hair will probably cover whatever abnormalities she still has. That being said, she said to go home and think about it, which tells me that they would do it if I really insisted that I wanted it done. Sheryl just said that there may be no improvement and if there were, it would be very little. I've attached the photostudy to this post. I'll try and post it later, but now I'm getting ready to leave. I've taken the day off to take my son bowling. I'd really like to get people's opinions about whether you think another band would be worth it at 23 months, which she will be by the time she got it. Take a look at the photos and let me know what you think. , mom to , 22.5 months STARband grad land Measurement Error"Plagiocephaly" <Plagiocephaly >Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? 2 of 2 Photo(s) photostudy 1 copy.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Hi - I think she looks GREAT! I think they captured some really good pictures, and it looks closer to 86 to me, than 92, that's for sure. I would personally be really happy with that head shape. It's definitely rounder than where you started, there is some sloping up towards the back (typical with brachy), but there's nothing that can really be done for that, except to encourage more growth in the back, but at her age, I really don't think it's worth trying for more. I think the last month of Jake wearing his band probably didn't accomplish much at all (23.5-24.5 months). I think that as a girl, she's going to have plenty of hair to cover whatever flatness is remaining (I can't really see any, she has a curve to the back of her head which is fantastic). I know it's easier for me to say, because I haven't dealt with it, but I almost wish Jake had brachy because at least then his flatness would be even and symmetrical and he'd look more " normal. " It's the assymetry of plagio that bothers me the most. And I think " normal " heads in general are flatter than they used to be because babies sleep on their back (kind of like half the babies are walking around with mild brachy). I can tell you that I personally know of at least 2 kids who have flatter heads than Nathalie does and were never banded. It's your decision of course, but as an outside opinion (and I am VERY critical of head shapes - I spent half of mass on Sunday staring at the boy's head in front of me - at least 8 years old with visible plagio), I think she looks REALLY good. Jake-2.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08) Jordan-5 > > > > From: melanie.watson@... < melanie.watson@... > > Subject: Measurement Error > " Plagiocephaly " < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I might be recalling incorrectly, but this situation sounds similar to what Leila and her daughter Maysa experienced - Starscanner being around 92% near the end of treatment and CT measurements of 85% at end of treatment. All I can say is your daughter, like Maysa, looks great and the 86% number seems more reasonable based on what I am seeing (as does the 85% for Maysa). My son was around 92% based on the Starscanner about a month before initiation of the helmet (and CT measured 90%) and I think my son's visually looks a bit worse that your daughter - so the 90% for my son and 86% for your daughter appear reasonable. In other words, I can definitely see why CT is not recommending treatment for your daughter. , Sr. , Jr. (started DOC on 6/3/09 at 21 months adjusted - now 22.5 months adjusted age) > > > > From: melanie.watson@... < melanie.watson@... > > Subject: Measurement Error > " Plagiocephaly " < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'm new at this head shape scrutiny, but I really think that looks great! There is a clear separation between where her head begins and neck ends. I had to really, really look to figure out what sloping up in the back means. I think I eventually figured it out, but I honestly never would have found her head to be abnormal if I saw her in person. > > > > From: melanie.watson@... < melanie.watson@... > > Subject: Measurement Error > " Plagiocephaly " < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 , I was so pleasantly shocked to look at 's photostudy. She looks GREAT, better than in the last pictures you had posted of her. I am really amazed to see her results throught these pictures. I know that she will be fine. I looked and looked again at all of her pics and her head is so beautifully round in the back. In the right profile one, there seems to be a little bit of posterior head height, but I think that it's also due to the fact that her head is pointing down a little, especially compared to the left profile one (you see more of her neck in the left one than in the right one). No matter which picture I look at, she looks fabulous. Now, to add on to what said, when I compared 's pictures to Maysa's exit ones, they look identical if I look at them from the back of the head to the ear. In the front shot, I think that looks even better. When I started this whole process, I was really stuck on the numbers and that's why I liked the STARscanner. It was hard data on paper. On the other hand, after I started seeing postive results with the DOC band, looks started to matter more. In your case, I think that looks as normal as any other little girl out there. You're so lucky that her width is not in the front and as far as the back is concerned, like said, I don't see any flatness whatsoever. I think that the STARband did what it was supposed to do and that you should be really happy with the results. If I were you, I don't think that I would go for another band. Leila, Maysa, 17.5 mo, DOC band Grad 5.29.09 www.mymaysa.wordpress.com From: mathison039 <mathison039@...>Subject: Re: Measurement ErrorPlagiocephaly Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:05 PM I might be recalling incorrectly, but this situation sounds similar to what Leila and her daughter Maysa experienced - Starscanner being around 92% near the end of treatment and CT measurements of 85% at end of treatment. All I can say is your daughter, like Maysa, looks great and the 86% number seems more reasonable based on what I am seeing (as does the 85% for Maysa). My son was around 92% based on the Starscanner about a month before initiation of the helmet (and CT measured 90%) and I think my son's visually looks a bit worse that your daughter - so the 90% for my son and 86% for your daughter appear reasonable.In other words, I can definitely see why CT is not recommending treatment for your daughter. , Sr., Jr. (started DOC on 6/3/09 at 21 months adjusted - now 22.5 months adjusted age) > > > > From: melanie.watson@ ... < melanie.watson@ ... > > Subject: Measurement Error > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you, . I asked about the specific place where I still see the flat spot and was told that it is where our soft spot in the back of our head is. We all have a little bit of flatness there. To be honest, I have a hard time finding it on my own head because it's so small, but I did find a small flat area. It turns out that 's is wider because of the brachy. I was told that she would have had to have started treatment quite young for that to completely go away. I'm still really curious about the difference in the numbers. I know that our PT did measurements at the end of 's treatment, which was about 6 weeks before her graduation. I'm thinking about contacting her and finding out what those numbers were. I'm still thinking about bringing her in for some booster CST sessions. If I do, I'll ask her to do the measurements again as well. If you think about it, the norms were created based upon hand measurements. Someone should do an updated study and study norms for hand and scan measurements separately and publish those new numbers. I think that the scan is computerized so it makes sure that it gets the widest part of the head, but the hand calipers and probably not quite as good at it so when we think 86, we think of what we see with the hand measurements. Who knows, maybe an average head size using the scanner is might wider and so it doesn't make sense to think of her 92 as the same as a 92 measured by hand. In any case, I'm glad that she looks like an 86. That makes me feel so much better. I was already leaning towards not getting the band after yesterday. I think it was the photostudy pictures that led me in that direction. Thank you. , mom to , 22.5 months STARband grad 05/11/09 land Measurement Error > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Leila, I was also surprised at how good she looks in the photostudy. I find it interesting that you think that she looks even better than the last pictures that I posted - maybe she did improve. They had a hard time taking the pictures because kept crying and she'd look down instead of up or in the right direction. I don't think that they got the right angle for the one side picture so she is tilted downward a little bit. It's actually amazing that they were finally able to get what the did. Thank goodness they had a doll in the room because is all about the baby dolls these days. They also managed a pony tail, which I haven't been able to get her to let me do. I was already leaning towards not banding again after the consult yesterday and after what I'm hearing here from you and others, we definately won't be going forward with it. I am glad that I went because I got a second opinion about her head plus those great pictures. It's so hard to get pictures from the right angle in the bathtub. The only picture that looks not normal (to me) is from the back. That's where I see her extra width. But, it was nice to see the rounding from the side and how her little bumps on the side of her head stick out less now. I can say that we got her hair cut last weekend and that thickened it up a little. The hairstylist also said that we need to train some of her baby hair to go to the back and side rather than the front. That will probably also help cover up the flat spot that really is just a wider soft spot that we all have in a smaller way. I've been compairing her head to the other babies/toddlers in the Mommy and Me swim class and I will say that while her head isn't the best, it's also not the worst. It does show more when her hair is wet and so she'll probably always have to deal with that. I do think that I want to go back for a least a couple of booster CST sessions just to make sure that things are as they should be. I also looked up activator chiro, which was not recommended by either the doctor or Sheryl at CT. I found some case studies where they reported success with plagio and reflux. is still on Prevacid for reflux. Hey, if they could help with that as well, I'll take it. Anyway, it's worth a phone call, but I'd probably do CST before the activator. Thanks again. , mom to , 22.5 months STARband grad 05/11/09 land Measurement Error > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I just pulled up my pictures that I took of right after she graduated and compared them to the Photo Study. I absolutely think that her head has improved since we graduated. If I get a chance, I'll photoshop them and post them for all to see. I'll bet that she grew another couple of mm while I was banding her at night and we got benefit from it. Or, maybe it has just been gradually improving. Who knows? It's crazy because I was worried about regression, but it looks like we got improvement instead. Measurement Error > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I would love to see those pics! Leila, Maysa, 18 mo, DOC band Grad 5.29.09 www.mymaysas.wordpress.com From: mathison039 <mathison039>Subject: Re: Measurement ErrorPlagiocephalyDate: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:05 PM I might be recalling incorrectly, but this situation sounds similar to what Leila and her daughter Maysa experienced - Starscanner being around 92% near the end of treatment and CT measurements of 85% at end of treatment. All I can say is your daughter, like Maysa, looks great and the 86% number seems more reasonable based on what I am seeing (as does the 85% for Maysa). My son was around 92% based on the Starscanner about a month before initiation of the helmet (and CT measured 90%) and I think my son's visually looks a bit worse that your daughter - so the 90% for my son and 86% for your daughter appear reasonable.In other words, I can definitely see why CT is not recommending treatment for your daughter. , Sr., Jr. (started DOC on 6/3/09 at 21 months adjusted - now 22.5 months adjusted age) > > > > From: melanie.watson@ ... < melanie.watson@ .... > > Subject: Measurement Error > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi , I was wondering...what do you mean by 's " little bumps on the side of her head stick out less now. " Are these bumps right above her ears? If so, why are they there and is that a symptom of brachy? Thanks. Luke, 8.3 months, STARband grad 6/09 NYC > > > > > > > > From: melanie.watson@ ... < melanie.watson@ ... > > > Subject: Measurement Error > > " Plagiocephaly " < Plagiocephaly > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 , If you look closely at kids with brachy, there is an area just above their ears that look like bumps. It's due to the skull being pushed forward because of the flatness in the back. I've seen them on most if not all of the babies with significant brachy. Those actually end up being the holding points for the bands for these babies because they are typically the area that we don't want to get any wider. I'm not sure if they exist on one side for kids with plagio. I've never paid close enough attention. Measurement Error > > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks . My son has brachy, but he doesn't have the bumps, so I was wondering what you were talking about. How is the CST going? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: melanie.watson@ ... < melanie.watson@ ... > > > > Subject: Measurement Error > > > " Plagiocephaly " < Plagiocephaly > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 We haven't actually started the CST. Her first appointment is tomorrow. I'm a little worried because seems to be reacting to something (foodwise) right now. She's got the classic red ring around the anus, diarrhea, and is VERY cranky. At our last CST appointment, she had accidently been give a cracker and was reacting to the wheat. This produces a not very cooperative little girl for these kinds of things. She cried the whole appointment last time. I'm really hoping that this doesn't happen tomorrow. We were told that insurance has approved one session. I'm not sure if that can be increased depending upon the results of tomorrow. I'm going to ask because I'd like her to have at least 3 or 4 sessions in the next few months. Measurement Error > > > "Plagiocephaly" < Plagiocephaly > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 12:10 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what the measurement error rate is for hand measurements? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker Lilypie Baby Ticker > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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