Re: magnesium

October 22, 2003

As you read the article below, please remember to filter the info thru your

knowledge of our special circumstances: i.e. malabsorption, extra calcium

consumption, etc.

Carol A

-----------------------------------------

In a message dated 10/21/2003 9:35:59 AM Central Daylight Time,

nonHSI@... writes:>

>

> It's Elemental

>

> Health Sciences Institute e-Alert

>

> October 21, 2003

>

> **************************************************************

>

> Dear Reader,

>

> What does every heart want?

>

> If you're a romantic, the answer is " Love. " But if you're a

> nutritionist, the answer is " Magnesium. "

>

> In previous e-Alerts and HSI Member Alerts we've told you how

> magnesium can help prevent many of the conditions that lead

> to heart disease. Now the results of a new study confirm

> earlier reports of an association between magnesium

> deficiency and the development of heart disease.

>

> But how much magnesium is enough? And how much is too much?

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------

> Aloha, heart disease

> --------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Using data from the Honolulu Heart Program, researchers from

> Hawaii, the National Institute for Longevity Sciences in

> Japan and the University of Virginia School of Medicine

> reviewed the dietary medical records of more than 7,000

> middle-aged men (ages 45-68 years).

>

> Following the information over the course of 30 years, the

> researchers found a clear association between the risk of

> coronary heart disease and a dietary intake of magnesium.

> After adjustments were made for age and other risk factors,

> those who consumed the lowest amounts of magnesium were

> almost twice as likely to develop heart disease compared to

> those who consumed the highest amounts.

>

> When the data was broken down into two 15-year periods, the

> apparent heart disease protection provided by magnesium

> intake in the first 15 years was described as only " modest, "

> indicating that the most positive effects are accumulated

> over a long period of time.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------

> The depleters

> --------------------------------------------------------------

>

> In the e-Alert " This Day and Every Day " (10/3/02) I told you

> about research indicating that as many as half of the adults

> in North America may not be getting enough magnesium in their

> diets to benefit the heart. This is largely due to the

> stresses on the body that deplete stores of magnesium.

> Starch, for instance, depletes magnesium, as does stress. You

> may also be at increased risk for magnesium deficiency if you

> regularly consume alcohol or diuretics, because both can

> increase urinary excretion of the mineral. Prescription

> medications, like the antibiotics Gentamicin, Amphotericin,

> and Cyclosporin can increase magnesium excretion as well.

>

> Fortunately, dietary magnesium is easy to come by. The

> mineral is naturally present in green leafy vegetables,

> avocados, nuts and seeds, and whole grains, but usually in

> small amounts, so you need to eat a wide variety of these

> foods regularly to get all the magnesium you need.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------

> How much... and what kind?

> --------------------------------------------------------------

>

> In addition to dietary sources, you can take magnesium

> supplements to make sure you're getting enough of this

> important mineral, but there's some disagreement among

> nutritionists about how much to take.

>

> When I asked HSI Panelist Allan Spreen, M.D., to give us his

> thoughts on magnesium supplementation, he sent me some

> information from the National Institutes of Health, which

> recommends 420 mg daily for men over the age of 31, and 320

> mg daily for women of the same age group. But it's not quite

> that cut-and-dried, because, as Dr. Spreen points out, there

> are other questions to be considered:

>

> " I've always recommended 500 milligrams/day, since absorption

> of most forms isn't that great anyway, and I like to let

> people get the cheapest and easiest sources they can.

>

> " My limit for oral magnesium is that which causes any

> loosening of the stools (and there's always a distinct dose

> that will do it... in fact, it works like a charm for

> constipated people by taking a known dose at bedtime, plus it

> helps them sleep!). I'm careful to warn people not to go over

> that limit for the simple reason that food is moved through

> the GI tract too quickly with too much magnesium, and that

> cuts down on absorption of nutrients (both from foods and

> supplements).

>

> " However, that amount is usually between 400 and 1500

> milligrams/day. It's hard to get too much magnesium in terms

> of true toxicity (orally, that is), since you'd get diarrhea

> first. The new RDI (as of 2002, anyway) in the US is 400

> mg/day. Now, bear in mind that that's ELEMENTAL magnesium.

> In a supplement, such as magnesium oxide (a poor form, but

> wouldn't you know that's what a drug company uses for low

> magnesium levels in the official Physician's Desk Reference),

> the tablet that is sold as a 400 milligram tablet only has

> 241.3 milligrams of elemental magnesium. So, when you take

> a '400 milligram' tablet, you aren't getting 400 milligrams

> of magnesium anyway. Plus, even the label says you can take

> 2/day, or 800 milligrams.

>

> " I'm not suggesting we take tons of the stuff. As I said, you

> don't want any loosening of the stools (unless constipated). "

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------

> More benefits

> --------------------------------------------------------------

>

> In a 2002 article that appeared in the Journal of

> Hypertension, Dr. Rhian Toyuz, an associate professor at the

> University of Montreal, discussed how magnesium helps heart

> muscle cells relax. And in addition to the fact that

> magnesium deficiencies have been linked to heart disease, Dr.

> Toyuz reports that studies have shown how diets rich in

> magnesium may also reduce blood pressure, especially among

> older people.

>

> Dr. Spreen agrees, and adds that magnesium has also been

> shown to lower serum homocysteine levels; one of the

> important markers for coronary heart disease.

>

> So when checking off the list of good things you can do for

> your heart, don't overlook the mineral that your heart just

> can't do without.

December 9, 2003

Chelated Magnesium.

Tina W.

Magnesium

I know that we have been over this before but I can't remember....What kind

of magnesium is the best for our kids with cf to take?

mom of Makenzie 6 almost 7 w/o cf and Jaelyn 22 months wi cf

*****

" The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to

which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or

privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use

of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or

entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received

this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all

computers. " 113

December 9, 2003

Solgar chelated magnesium glycinate; any other than glycinate will cause

diarr

hea! I owe this to Kim Payne's letting us all know on crataegus@...

With thanks to Kim,

n, who is probably stepping in prematurely here!

Magnesium

>

> I know that we have been over this before but I can't remember....What

kind

> of magnesium is the best for our kids with cf to take?

>

> mom of Makenzie 6 almost 7 w/o cf and Jaelyn 22 months wi cf

>

> *****

> " The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to

> which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or

> privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other

use

> of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons

or

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received

> this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all

> computers. " 113

>

December 9, 2003

Hi ,

I see that n and Bev jumped in here, but I just wanted to add that the

reason I prefer Solgar's magnesium

glycinate (which is actually magnesium chelated to the amino acid, glycine) is

that Solgar buys their Mg gly from

Albion Labs, the company that patented their particular chelating process.

Studies showed that minerals produced by Albion Labs have a higher

bioavailability than other chelated or

nonchelated minerals made/marketed by other companies. Bioavailability is

important -- this is the amount of

mineral taken in by the cell. Additionally, Albion Lab's chelated Mg is less

likely to cause intestinal upset at

high doses, and many people with certain health impairments need higher doses.

These health issues include

CF, asthma, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, depression, IBS,

insomnia, chronic muscle spasms,

Tourettes, autism, epilepsy, premature labor, and the list goes on...

If your child cultures pseudomonas and the PA is resistant to aminoglycoside

antibiotics such as Tobramycin

or gentamicin, that may be one clue to magnesium deficiency.

Kim

--- " , " <.@B...> wrote:

> I know that we have been over this before but I can't remember....What kind

of magnesium is the best for our kids with cf to take?

>

> mom of Makenzie 6 almost 7 w/o cf and Jaelyn 22 months wi cf

>

> *****

> " The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to

which it is addressed and may contain confidential,

proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,

dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance

upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient

is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact

the sender and delete the material from all computers. " 113

>

December 9, 2003

Dear Kim, Nice to see you here. You always explain things so very well. How

are you doing gal.?

I am so happy you have a special someone . Blessings to you & all your

family ..

LOVE & HUGS,

BEV

Re: Magnesium

Hi ,

I see that n and Bev jumped in here, but I just wanted to add that the

reason I prefer Solgar's magnesium

glycinate (which is actually magnesium chelated to the amino acid, glycine)

is that Solgar buys their Mg gly from

Albion Labs, the company that patented their particular chelating process.

Studies showed that minerals produced by Albion Labs have a higher

bioavailability than other chelated or

nonchelated minerals made/marketed by other companies. Bioavailability is

important -- this is the amount of

mineral taken in by the cell. Additionally, Albion Lab's chelated Mg is less

likely to cause intestinal upset at

high doses, and many people with certain health impairments need higher

doses. These health issues include

CF, asthma, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, depression, IBS,

insomnia, chronic muscle spasms,

Tourettes, autism, epilepsy, premature labor, and the list goes on...

If your child cultures pseudomonas and the PA is resistant to aminoglycoside

antibiotics such as Tobramycin

or gentamicin, that may be one clue to magnesium deficiency.

Kim

--- " , " <.@B...> wrote:

> I know that we have been over this before but I can't remember....What

kind of magnesium is the best for our kids with cf to take?

>

> mom of Makenzie 6 almost 7 w/o cf and Jaelyn 22 months wi cf

>

> *****

> " The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to

which it is addressed and may contain confidential,

proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,

dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance

upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended

recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact

the sender and delete the material from all computers. " 113

>

December 10, 2003

In a message dated 12/10/2003 10:42:05 AM Central Standard Time,

brewzline19@... writes:

Tracey

Kim is the one to talk to about Magnesium she is the one who has educated us

on this. I get mine magnesium right her through the Internet it is called the

house of nutrition. Just remember to get the chelate magnesium.

Also about the ambrose there are people on her that have use it and are

totally sold on it but personally we have not tried it. We are using Shaklee

products I really think they are all about the same. Deb A

December 10, 2003

Tracey,

If your doctors are anything like mine they won't advise using Mg. I

actually am interested in trying it but they have strongly

discouraged me from it. They say that Mg relaxes muscles (giving the

example of women giving birth are sometimes given Mg to relax those

muscles) and they are concerned that it may not be good for the

respiratory muscles. Also they say that there isn't enough

regulation over supplements to put enough faith in the integrity or

purity of the product.

When I cite examples of people that seem to have benefitted from

using Mg supplementation their response is that these are only

isolated cases and there are no telling what other variables have

been entered into the mix. They say without a controlled study it is

totally impossible to draw conclusions of how it would affect

different individuals that are so different in so many ways. They

said that CF'rs haven't shown to be deficient in Mg but when I asked

them about doing an intracellular Mg level test they didn't seem to

know what I was referring to. As interested as I am in this subject,

I can't yet bring myself to start my 15 month old on Mg.

Kim Payne has done an amazing amount of research on this subject and

I am very confident in her knowledge of the subject. Everything I

have read that she's written seems to really add up and I suspect one

day (hopefully soon) the CF medical community will launch a major

clinical trial using Magnesium. I probably will start Abby on some

low doses when she gets a little older even without solid scientific

proof just because I think Kim is really onto something big.

If anyone (Kim) can tell me how to explain to our doctors about

checking Abby's intracellular Mg I would appreciate it. I've gotten

a little lazy on this subject and need to start checking into it

again. Her doctors have been so adamant about it I've left it alone

for awhile. However I don't want to get down the road and have major

regrets about not being more aggressive.

Joe

> First of all I can't thank all of you enough for all the responses

I

> received from my message I posted yesterday concerning my daughter

> Sydney taking TOBI. I was overwhelmed when I saw all the messages

> this morning. It's a blessing and a comfort to know that our

family

> is not alone in this struggle, and we thank you for all the words

of

> comfort that were sent to us. I NOW HAVE A PLACE TO GO WHERE

PEOPLE

> UNDERSTAND ME!!!!! That's such a load off my shoulders! Anyways,

on

> to my next question... Our doctor hasn't said anything about her

> taking magnesium. I'd like to start her on it, but how do you know

> what dose to take, and is it hard to find in the stores? Also, my

> husband and I are looking into starting Sydney on something called

> Ambrotose(sp?) through a company called Mannatec - has anyone heard

> anything about it, or had any experiences using it? I'm not sure

if

> you're actually allowed to ask or refer to specific companies on

this

> site, so forgive me if I'm breaking rules, it's just that I'm brand

> new to using " chat groups " , but I'm learning!

>

> Tracey

December 10, 2003

Tracey,

As I've often mentioned to others, and as Joe told you from a private discussion

he and I engaged in several months ago, most doctors

won't advise using magnesium -- not because they don't believe in it's validity,

rather it's because they know so little of it's crucial role

in human health. nearly every prescription meds you see advertised on TV today

could be eliminated (or reduced) if magnesium

deficiencies were corrected. You know... all those ads for asthma, insomnia,

depression, high blood pressure, arthritis, osteoporosis,

" acid indigestion, " migraines, attention disorders, and believe it or not --

allergies -- all have roots in magnesium deficiency. There are

certain chronic health populations that routinely test low in intracellular

magnesium, including people with CF, asthma, migraines,

irritable bowel syndrome, high blood pressure, other heart disease, diabetes,

Tourettes, autism, and depression.

Everyone needs magnesium (Mg), not just people with CF. And if you read the

research put out by the NIH, roughly 80% of

Americans don't even get their minimum daily requirements of magnesium. And the

NIH admits that you cannot get the minimum daily

requirements through your daily diet. Surprisingly to me, a very small

percentage of people take a daily multivitamin/mineral tablet.

Personally, I think Joe's doctors are taking an extremely cautionary approach to

magnesium when they say it relaxes muscles. Uh,

yeah, duh... guess what? Bronchoconstriction is muscle constriction. But I guess

these doctors would rather put kids on albuteroal

and Xopenex -- which further depletes intracellular Mg, not to mention depletes

potassium, calcium, and phosphorus.

And when the lungs become too acidic and start growing strange bacteria and

fungi, what do they do? They pour on the antibiotics,

which further deplete Mg, and can cause PA to become mucoid, and ultimately

resistant to certain classes of antibiotics

(aminoglycosides). At least three 20-year old studies show this. If anyone has

researched it recently to refute this, I've not found it.

But I keep looking. In the meantime, you better believe we continue taking our

daily multivitamin/mineral along with extra Mg, and

extra C. Additionally, I take extra E and DHA, while my son (with CF) DHA and a

water-soluble A and water soluble E.

His doctor has approved all this; however, he disagrees with Mg deficiency

saying, " People with CF are not all that deficient, but you

can go ahead and give it if you want to, it won't hurt. " He didn't even read the

medical abstracts I sent him.

Too many people who've begun taking additional Mg have seen improved health. The

danger is in not getting enough. Sure, like

anything you can overdo it -- that seems to be our nature: if a little helps,

then a lot helps more. Not so... you listen to your body. For

instance, when I started giving my son Mg, I started taking it too. We both took

Mg chloride. He was so deficient that his body soaked

it up like a sponge and he saw benefits anyway. I was deficient too, but my body

wouldn't take it into the cells, so it didn't do anything

for me. A few months later, I switched to Mg citrate. Again, no results for me.

Yet, 48 hours after I switched to Solgar's chelated magnesium glycinate (200 mg.

daily), my nightly insomnia vanished, my back

spasms vanished, my IBS vanished, and my near daily chronic sinus headaches

became a thing of the past. And when I'd get a

migraine, the intensity was much less than before. Within a month I increased to

300 mg. daily, and in another month I bumped to

400 mg. daily. That's my current level. My body needs 400 mg. Solgar daily, and

I get another 266.66 mg. Mg in my

multivitamin/mineral tablet. On days when I'm under stress or symptoms crop up

(such as a migraine, sinus headache or back

spasm) then I gulp 200 mg. more and it really helps.

Stress is one of the biggest wasters of Mg. And many, many medications deplete

the body of Mg, such as antibiotics (including

tobramycin, Zithromax, and Cipro -- commonly prescribed CF meds), albuterol,

Xopenex, antifungals, and meds like Prilosec and

Prevacid contribute to B vitamin deficiencies, which contribute to Mg

deficiency. It's so ironic that many meds that are supposed to

help certain health conditions, often cause Mg deficiency, which is a cause of

that health problem in the first place. Heart meds and

heart disease is a perfect example.

About three months ago, I was reading the website of the American College of

Cardiologists. There was a discussion about certain

meds depleting magnesium and causing long QT waves -- a life-threatening event

when coupled with Mg-deficiency. Some doctors

voiced frustration over why they didn't remember this info from med school. The

moderating doctor responded that this wasn't

discussed in the med text books because they didn't know it then. (So... there

ya go, Joe. Likely your doctors are just along way

behind the times.)

The best way to explain intracellular levels is to go to these websites

http://www.exatest.com and htp://www.krispin.com (click on

magnesium).

Dosing Mg is a very individual thing. I know a young boy (9 or 11 years old,

can't remember), who takes 1,000 mg. Solgar Mg each

day. When he goes below this, asthma symptoms arise. He has CF and is in good

health, yet his mom finds the 1,000 mg. Solgar

Mg helps a lot.

If you want to supplement Mg, you might look at the big picture: typcial diet

(does the child eat Mg-rich foods such as beans, fish,

dark greens?), malabsorption (does the child have daily fatty, oily stools,

diarrhea?), currents meds (do any deplete Mg?), current

sputum culture, (starting to culture odd bugs, mucoid PA, fungus, yeast?), etc.

Again, I have no idea why doctors are acting in such bizarre ways when it comes

to magnesium. For Pete's sake, it's a recognized

essential mineral. It's not snake oil or some root dug up from a backyard in

outer Mongolia or bark scraped from a near-extinct

Amazon rainforest -- it's magnesium! Magnesium is the second most abundant

cation in the body and the fourth most abundant

mineral in the body. It's responsible for over 300 enzymatic actions. You cannot

live without it, your cells simply cannot do what they

have to do when Mg is low.

The danger exists in Mg deficiency for people with CF. Did you know you're

putting your child at a greater risk for ototoxcity if they are

Mg deficient? You want to explain to your child why they now have hearing

problems, ringing in their ears or vertigo caused by

aminoglycoside antibiotics -- simply because the doc didn't know to give Mg

beforehand? Do you want to risk disrupting the QT waves

of their heart -- which could cause death -- if you give meds such as macrolides

and aminoglycosides during Mg deficiency?

Ask your doctors if they know this. I bet they don't. Yet. The makers of Biaxin

finally included the QT info in their literature. I know

because I checked just last month when my daughter's doctor prescribed Biaxin

for her sinus infection. I can't get her to take multis or

magnesium on a regular basis and it drives me nuts. Knowing she is Mg-deficient

and was prescribed a med that could affect her

heart during Mg-deficiency is pretty doggone scary. Did her doctor tell her? No.

Is he aware? Likely not. Why? Because doctors are

too busy to learn anything about new meds except what the pharmaceutical reps

tell them when they come in to visit. Do the reps

relay this info? No. Why not? Because they're there to sell the med. If the

doctor were to specifically ask, " How does this medication

interact with .... " then sure, the rep should know enough to impart the info.

Still, it's the doctor's responsibility to read the literature.

So again... will your doctors know about magnesium defiecieny and CF? Probably

not. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that

doesn't mean you can't give your child a good quality multivitamin/mineral along

with additional magnesium if you see fit to give it.

Each of you as the ability to know as much as your doctor -- even more than your

doctor and nutritionist -- when it comes to diet and

supplements. Read, read, read... trust yourself and your abilities... and move

forward. There is absolute danger in putting all your eggs

in one basket. In other words, if you give your doctors carte blanche and full

responsibility for your health, you're pretty much saying,

" If you succeed in treating me and curing me, then you're a winner. If you harm

me, then well... it's just the nature of CF. "

You have more control than you realize and your children can feel better and be

healthier than you believe.

Kim

Mom of (24 with CF and asthma) and (21 with asthma, no CF)

--- " Joe " <reamsfarm@m...> wrote:

> Tracey,

>

> If your doctors are anything like mine they won't advise using Mg. I

> actually am interested in trying it but they have strongly

> discouraged me from it. They say that Mg relaxes muscles (giving the

> example of women giving birth are sometimes given Mg to relax those

> muscles) and they are concerned that it may not be good for the

> respiratory muscles. Also they say that there isn't enough

> regulation over supplements to put enough faith in the integrity or

> purity of the product.

>

> When I cite examples of people that seem to have benefitted from

> using Mg supplementation their response is that these are only

> isolated cases and there are no telling what other variables have

> been entered into the mix. They say without a controlled study it is

> totally impossible to draw conclusions of how it would affect

> different individuals that are so different in so many ways. They

> said that CF'rs haven't shown to be deficient in Mg but when I asked

> them about doing an intracellular Mg level test they didn't seem to

> know what I was referring to. As interested as I am in this subject,

> I can't yet bring myself to start my 15 month old on Mg.

>

> Kim Payne has done an amazing amount of research on this subject and

> I am very confident in her knowledge of the subject. Everything I

> have read that she's written seems to really add up and I suspect one

> day (hopefully soon) the CF medical community will launch a major

> clinical trial using Magnesium. I probably will start Abby on some

> low doses when she gets a little older even without solid scientific

> proof just because I think Kim is really onto something big.

>

> If anyone (Kim) can tell me how to explain to our doctors about

> checking Abby's intracellular Mg I would appreciate it. I've gotten

> a little lazy on this subject and need to start checking into it

> again. Her doctors have been so adamant about it I've left it alone

> for awhile. However I don't want to get down the road and have major

> regrets about not being more aggressive.

>

> Joe

>

> > First of all I can't thank all of you enough for all the responses

> I

> > received from my message I posted yesterday concerning my daughter

> > Sydney taking TOBI. I was overwhelmed when I saw all the messages

> > this morning. It's a blessing and a comfort to know that our

> family

> > is not alone in this struggle, and we thank you for all the words

> of

> > comfort that were sent to us. I NOW HAVE A PLACE TO GO WHERE

> PEOPLE

> > UNDERSTAND ME!!!!! That's such a load off my shoulders! Anyways,

> on

> > to my next question... Our doctor hasn't said anything about her

> > taking magnesium. I'd like to start her on it, but how do you know

> > what dose to take, and is it hard to find in the stores? Also, my

> > husband and I are looking into starting Sydney on something called

> > Ambrotose(sp?) through a company called Mannatec - has anyone heard

> > anything about it, or had any experiences using it? I'm not sure

> if

> > you're actually allowed to ask or refer to specific companies on

> this

> > site, so forgive me if I'm breaking rules, it's just that I'm brand

> > new to using " chat groups " , but I'm learning!

> >

> > Tracey

December 10, 2003

Dear Kim, this one needs to go on the files, too. You may marry

Dorsey and move to Mexico. I print all this stuff that you write.

But there is nothing on either list's files about Magnesium. I know

people will disregard the whole thing, doctors and patients alike.

But, when I started reading your posts, I went to the NIH website, I

pulled every paper and read quiet a bit about Magnesium and so far

everything matches to a t, even the NIH agrees with you. This is a

good website to read, http://www.mgwater.com. I have a few articles

that I can post, for people to read. The japanese and the French

have written quiet a bit about Mg, too.

Thank you Kim!

> > > First of all I can't thank all of you enough for all the

responses

> > I

> > > received from my message I posted yesterday concerning my

daughter

> > > Sydney taking TOBI. I was overwhelmed when I saw all the

messages

> > > this morning. It's a blessing and a comfort to know that our

> > family

> > > is not alone in this struggle, and we thank you for all the

words

> > of

> > > comfort that were sent to us. I NOW HAVE A PLACE TO GO WHERE

> > PEOPLE

> > > UNDERSTAND ME!!!!! That's such a load off my shoulders!

Anyways,

> > on

> > > to my next question... Our doctor hasn't said anything about

her

> > > taking magnesium. I'd like to start her on it, but how do you

know

> > > what dose to take, and is it hard to find in the stores? Also,

my

> > > husband and I are looking into starting Sydney on something

called

> > > Ambrotose(sp?) through a company called Mannatec - has anyone

heard

> > > anything about it, or had any experiences using it? I'm not

sure

> > if

> > > you're actually allowed to ask or refer to specific companies

on

> > this

> > > site, so forgive me if I'm breaking rules, it's just that I'm

brand

> > > new to using " chat groups " , but I'm learning!

> > >

> > > Tracey

December 11, 2003

My daughter Patti (3 wcf) has been taking the mannatech products for 6 months

now. We have seen a good increase in her over all health since that time. Some

people don't like Mannatech because they are a multi-level marketing company.

But you don't have to participate in that part of the company to receive

products for your cf child. If you have any specific questions about it feel

free to email me privately at johndawn@... .

Dawn mom of 4, 7 and under, the youngest wcf

December 11, 2003

- a great post, but I could not get your link to go through--got message

" page not found. " (groan!) Love to you and to all that you are researching!

n Rojas

Re: Magnesium

Dear Kim, this one needs to go on the files, too. You may marry

Dorsey and move to Mexico. I print all this stuff that you write.

But there is nothing on either list's files about Magnesium. I know

people will disregard the whole thing, doctors and patients alike.

But, when I started reading your posts, I went to the NIH website, I

pulled every paper and read quiet a bit about Magnesium and so far

everything matches to a t, even the NIH agrees with you. This is a

good website to read, http://www.mgwater.com. I have a few articles

that I can post, for people to read. The japanese and the French

have written quiet a bit about Mg, too.

Thank you Kim!

> > > First of all I can't thank all of you enough for all the

responses

> > I

> > > received from my message I posted yesterday concerning my

daughter

> > > Sydney taking TOBI. I was overwhelmed when I saw all the

messages

> > > this morning. It's a blessing and a comfort to know that our

> > family

> > > is not alone in this struggle, and we thank you for all the

words

> > of

> > > comfort that were sent to us. I NOW HAVE A PLACE TO GO WHERE

> > PEOPLE

> > > UNDERSTAND ME!!!!! That's such a load off my shoulders!

Anyways,

> > on

> > > to my next question... Our doctor hasn't said anything about

her

> > > taking magnesium. I'd like to start her on it, but how do you

know

> > > what dose to take, and is it hard to find in the stores? Also,

my

> > > husband and I are looking into starting Sydney on something

called

> > > Ambrotose(sp?) through a company called Mannatec - has anyone

heard

> > > anything about it, or had any experiences using it? I'm not

sure

> > if

> > > you're actually allowed to ask or refer to specific companies

on

> > this

> > > site, so forgive me if I'm breaking rules, it's just that I'm

brand

> > > new to using " chat groups " , but I'm learning!

> > >

> > > Tracey

December 11, 2003

What is the best way to get a child that cannot swallow pills to take magnesium.

I have tried crushing it and giving it with juice but it is so gritty they won't

take it.

Also, what is a good multivitamin for a child with cf (I have a 7 year old a 5

year old and a 3 year old.

Thanks

Vicki

Re: Magnesium

Tracey,

As I've often mentioned to others, and as Joe told you from a private

discussion he and I engaged in several months ago, most doctors

won't advise using magnesium -- not because they don't believe in it's

validity, rather it's because they know so little of it's crucial role

in human health. nearly every prescription meds you see advertised on TV today

could be eliminated (or reduced) if magnesium

deficiencies were corrected. You know... all those ads for asthma, insomnia,

depression, high blood pressure, arthritis, osteoporosis,

" acid indigestion, " migraines, attention disorders, and believe it or not --

allergies -- all have roots in magnesium deficiency. There are

certain chronic health populations that routinely test low in intracellular

magnesium, including people with CF, asthma, migraines,

irritable bowel syndrome, high blood pressure, other heart disease, diabetes,

Tourettes, autism, and depression.

Everyone needs magnesium (Mg), not just people with CF. And if you read the

research put out by the NIH, roughly 80% of

Americans don't even get their minimum daily requirements of magnesium. And

the NIH admits that you cannot get the minimum daily

requirements through your daily diet. Surprisingly to me, a very small

percentage of people take a daily multivitamin/mineral tablet.

Personally, I think Joe's doctors are taking an extremely cautionary approach

to magnesium when they say it relaxes muscles. Uh,

yeah, duh... guess what? Bronchoconstriction is muscle constriction. But I

guess these doctors would rather put kids on albuteroal

and Xopenex -- which further depletes intracellular Mg, not to mention

depletes potassium, calcium, and phosphorus.

And when the lungs become too acidic and start growing strange bacteria and

fungi, what do they do? They pour on the antibiotics,

which further deplete Mg, and can cause PA to become mucoid, and ultimately

resistant to certain classes of antibiotics

(aminoglycosides). At least three 20-year old studies show this. If anyone has

researched it recently to refute this, I've not found it.

But I keep looking. In the meantime, you better believe we continue taking our

daily multivitamin/mineral along with extra Mg, and

extra C. Additionally, I take extra E and DHA, while my son (with CF) DHA and

a water-soluble A and water soluble E.

His doctor has approved all this; however, he disagrees with Mg deficiency

saying, " People with CF are not all that deficient, but you

can go ahead and give it if you want to, it won't hurt. " He didn't even read

the medical abstracts I sent him.

Too many people who've begun taking additional Mg have seen improved health.

The danger is in not getting enough. Sure, like

anything you can overdo it -- that seems to be our nature: if a little helps,

then a lot helps more. Not so... you listen to your body. For

instance, when I started giving my son Mg, I started taking it too. We both

took Mg chloride. He was so deficient that his body soaked

it up like a sponge and he saw benefits anyway. I was deficient too, but my

body wouldn't take it into the cells, so it didn't do anything

for me. A few months later, I switched to Mg citrate. Again, no results for

me.

Yet, 48 hours after I switched to Solgar's chelated magnesium glycinate (200

mg. daily), my nightly insomnia vanished, my back

spasms vanished, my IBS vanished, and my near daily chronic sinus headaches

became a thing of the past. And when I'd get a

migraine, the intensity was much less than before. Within a month I increased

to 300 mg. daily, and in another month I bumped to

400 mg. daily. That's my current level. My body needs 400 mg. Solgar daily,

and I get another 266.66 mg. Mg in my

multivitamin/mineral tablet. On days when I'm under stress or symptoms crop up

(such as a migraine, sinus headache or back

spasm) then I gulp 200 mg. more and it really helps.

Stress is one of the biggest wasters of Mg. And many, many medications deplete

the body of Mg, such as antibiotics (including

tobramycin, Zithromax, and Cipro -- commonly prescribed CF meds), albuterol,

Xopenex, antifungals, and meds like Prilosec and

Prevacid contribute to B vitamin deficiencies, which contribute to Mg

deficiency. It's so ironic that many meds that are supposed to

help certain health conditions, often cause Mg deficiency, which is a cause of

that health problem in the first place. Heart meds and

heart disease is a perfect example.

About three months ago, I was reading the website of the American College of

Cardiologists. There was a discussion about certain

meds depleting magnesium and causing long QT waves -- a life-threatening event

when coupled with Mg-deficiency. Some doctors

voiced frustration over why they didn't remember this info from med school.

The moderating doctor responded that this wasn't

discussed in the med text books because they didn't know it then. (So... there

ya go, Joe. Likely your doctors are just along way

behind the times.)

The best way to explain intracellular levels is to go to these websites

http://www.exatest.com and htp://www.krispin.com (click on

magnesium).

Dosing Mg is a very individual thing. I know a young boy (9 or 11 years old,

can't remember), who takes 1,000 mg. Solgar Mg each

day. When he goes below this, asthma symptoms arise. He has CF and is in good

health, yet his mom finds the 1,000 mg. Solgar

Mg helps a lot.

If you want to supplement Mg, you might look at the big picture: typcial diet

(does the child eat Mg-rich foods such as beans, fish,

dark greens?), malabsorption (does the child have daily fatty, oily stools,

diarrhea?), currents meds (do any deplete Mg?), current

sputum culture, (starting to culture odd bugs, mucoid PA, fungus, yeast?),

etc.

Again, I have no idea why doctors are acting in such bizarre ways when it

comes to magnesium. For Pete's sake, it's a recognized

essential mineral. It's not snake oil or some root dug up from a backyard in

outer Mongolia or bark scraped from a near-extinct

Amazon rainforest -- it's magnesium! Magnesium is the second most abundant

cation in the body and the fourth most abundant

mineral in the body. It's responsible for over 300 enzymatic actions. You

cannot live without it, your cells simply cannot do what they

have to do when Mg is low.

The danger exists in Mg deficiency for people with CF. Did you know you're

putting your child at a greater risk for ototoxcity if they are

Mg deficient? You want to explain to your child why they now have hearing

problems, ringing in their ears or vertigo caused by

aminoglycoside antibiotics -- simply because the doc didn't know to give Mg

beforehand? Do you want to risk disrupting the QT waves

of their heart -- which could cause death -- if you give meds such as

macrolides and aminoglycosides during Mg deficiency?

Ask your doctors if they know this. I bet they don't. Yet. The makers of

Biaxin finally included the QT info in their literature. I know

because I checked just last month when my daughter's doctor prescribed Biaxin

for her sinus infection. I can't get her to take multis or

magnesium on a regular basis and it drives me nuts. Knowing she is

Mg-deficient and was prescribed a med that could affect her

heart during Mg-deficiency is pretty doggone scary. Did her doctor tell her?

No. Is he aware? Likely not. Why? Because doctors are

too busy to learn anything about new meds except what the pharmaceutical reps

tell them when they come in to visit. Do the reps

relay this info? No. Why not? Because they're there to sell the med. If the

doctor were to specifically ask, " How does this medication

interact with .... " then sure, the rep should know enough to impart the info.

Still, it's the doctor's responsibility to read the literature.

So again... will your doctors know about magnesium defiecieny and CF? Probably

not. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that

doesn't mean you can't give your child a good quality multivitamin/mineral

along with additional magnesium if you see fit to give it.

Each of you as the ability to know as much as your doctor -- even more than

your doctor and nutritionist -- when it comes to diet and

supplements. Read, read, read... trust yourself and your abilities... and move

forward. There is absolute danger in putting all your eggs

in one basket. In other words, if you give your doctors carte blanche and full

responsibility for your health, you're pretty much saying,

" If you succeed in treating me and curing me, then you're a winner. If you

harm me, then well... it's just the nature of CF. "

You have more control than you realize and your children can feel better and

be healthier than you believe.