Re: stone blocking bile duct

[Guest guest]

Hey,SCD can be very helpful detoxing in many ways, but you can't really rely upon it to solve a problem like that. For gallblader problems, including stones, even really large stones, there are great detox regimes detailed in the book Healing With Whole Foods by Pitchford. They have saved many people from surgery, I would definitely check them out, and they can be worked to be completely SCD legal.

Best

 

thanks so much for your insight Kim- no not for me THANK GOD!!! I'm doing quite well

Eileen

> >

> > will scd help with this??? and/or gallbladder issues?

> > thanks

> > Eileen

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So if you have gallstones that show up on x-ray, that means they are calcified, right?  Can you do a flush with those to get rid of them?

 

And, dumb question (or dumber) but do they flush via urinary tract?

 

Gracias,

Debbie 41 cd

 

I heard that taking out the gallbladder does not help at all with the stones!!!!

 

 

Holly,

 

I had my gallbladder out in '08. Since then I did several liver flushes and lots of stones came out, some really large ones. I asked my doctor about it...where these stones come from if no gallbladder. He said they collect in the common bile duct. I'm sure I still have more but want to wait until I'm stronger before I deal with them.

 DarleneIntestinal Dysbiosis/CFSSCD 8 weeks

To: BTVC-SCD

Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 8:39:56 PMSubject: Re: stone blocking bile duct 

I started taking milk thistle on April 1st due to having high liver enzymes. It didn't seem to affect me negatively. On the night of the 9th, I had a lot of pain in the middle of my abdomen (right under my ribs) and the mid part of my back. I stopped the milk thistle, and ate lightly all week. Then on the 16th, I had even worse pain (more in the back than the abdomen) about an hour after eating some acorn squash. It lasted for several hours. Once again, I'm eating really lightly. I don't have a gallbladder (it was full of stones, so had it taken out in 2003), but could I have stones in the liver or pancreas? Should I not start up the milk thistle again?

HollyCrohn'sSCD 12/01/08

>> Hey,> > I just wanted to clarify that flushing large gallbladder stones is very> dangerous, and should not be attempted. That's why milk thistle can be a> problem in those situations. The gallbladder detoxes I recommended, the ones

> for large stones work to _dissolve_ the stones, not flush them. Be careful> to do the detox for large stones.> > Best > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

Would a blocked bile duct, or sludge, show up on an abdominal ultrasound? I had

one a couple weeks ago, and they said it was normal.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> Holly

>

>

>

> High liver enzymes indicate a blockage in the common bile duct, or something

> else going on in your biliary tree. Since you don't have a gallbladder,

> that eliminates one potential problem, but there are several other things

> that can occur. The milk thistle is undoubtedly aggravating the problem, so

> I'd probably not use it again. I'd head for your doctors, since the pain

> keeps reoccurring. I believe you can still get bile sludge that can prevent

> the common bile duct from emptying properly, and then there are other

> functional issues such as Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction.

>

>

>

> I've had elevated liver enzymes several times before and after my diagnosis

> of Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction. They were quite high by the time of my

> diagnosis and I ended up getting an ERCP with sphincterotomy when my doctor

> also found that my common bile duct was blocked simply because the Sphincter

> of Oddi wasn't letting the duct empty properly. At other times my biliary

> tree managed to recover on its own, my liver enzymes dropped, so I didn't

> need to go back for another ERCP and face getting a stent or another

> sphincterotomy. But that is always a concern given my diagnosis, so I get

> my liver enzymes tested twice a year, along with the pancreatic enzymes.

>

>

>

> I hate to say this, but it is also somewhat common for people who have their

> gallbladders removed to develop further problems with their Sphincter of

> Oddi or in the biliary tree. I think the latest statistics were 12% of

> people who have their gallbladder removed go on to develop functional

> digestive disorders of one sort or another. It can take several years, or

> longer, for problems to develop. Hopefully you aren't one of this

> percentage, but it also isn't the end of the world if you are. There are

> plenty of us dealing with a cranky upper GI [grin].

>

>

>

> If you do end up needing an ERCP, make sure your doctor is experienced with

> the procedure, and won't turn it over to interns. Not every

> gastroenterologist is good with an ERCP, so ask some questions. There are

> risks associated with an ERCP, but sometimes it is necessary. It certainly

> helped me, and I was lucky enough that my gastroenterologist happens to be a

> world-renowned expert with ERCPs. But it also took me several tries with

> doctors before I found my current gastroenterologist. The first few doctors

> I saw were no help at all, and missed a lot of signs that indicated I had

> Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction and a blocked bile duct.

>

>

>

> Kim M.

>

> SCD 6 years

>

> Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction 6+ years

>

> neurological & spinal deterioration 3+ years

>

[Guest guest]

Yuck! I was hoping that no gallbladder would mean no stones :-(. Thanks for the

info though!

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> Holly,

>

> I had my gallbladder out in '08. Since then I did several liver flushes and

lots of stones came out, some really large ones. I asked my doctor about

it...where these stones come from if no gallbladder. He said they collect in the

common bile duct. I'm sure I still have more but want to wait until I'm

stronger before I deal with them.

>  Darlene

> Intestinal Dysbiosis/CFS

> SCD 8 weeks

>

[Guest guest]

All of my ultra sounds are normal and I was told by an upper GI specialist that

I probably deal with biliary sludge which is super hard to detect- an ERCP is

needed and I have held off. I have been loads better since surgery. I believe

all the strictures in that region were just stressing everything out!

Kim M has taught me so much about this- because I have been told several times

now to just remove my GB. It's as if " uhh, you don't need it anyway " ugghhh!

Do you take pancreatic enzymes at all?

What about watching fat intake, does it help at all?

Jodi

> >

> > Holly

> >

> >

> >

> > High liver enzymes indicate a blockage in the common bile duct, or something

> > else going on in your biliary tree. Since you don't have a gallbladder,

> > that eliminates one potential problem, but there are several other things

> > that can occur. The milk thistle is undoubtedly aggravating the problem, so

> > I'd probably not use it again. I'd head for your doctors, since the pain

> > keeps reoccurring. I believe you can still get bile sludge that can prevent

> > the common bile duct from emptying properly, and then there are other

> > functional issues such as Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction.

> >

> >

> >

> > I've had elevated liver enzymes several times before and after my diagnosis

> > of Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction. They were quite high by the time of my

> > diagnosis and I ended up getting an ERCP with sphincterotomy when my doctor

> > also found that my common bile duct was blocked simply because the Sphincter

> > of Oddi wasn't letting the duct empty properly. At other times my biliary

> > tree managed to recover on its own, my liver enzymes dropped, so I didn't

> > need to go back for another ERCP and face getting a stent or another

> > sphincterotomy. But that is always a concern given my diagnosis, so I get

> > my liver enzymes tested twice a year, along with the pancreatic enzymes.

> >

> >

> >

> > I hate to say this, but it is also somewhat common for people who have their

> > gallbladders removed to develop further problems with their Sphincter of

> > Oddi or in the biliary tree. I think the latest statistics were 12% of

> > people who have their gallbladder removed go on to develop functional

> > digestive disorders of one sort or another. It can take several years, or

> > longer, for problems to develop. Hopefully you aren't one of this

> > percentage, but it also isn't the end of the world if you are. There are

> > plenty of us dealing with a cranky upper GI [grin].

> >

> >

> >

> > If you do end up needing an ERCP, make sure your doctor is experienced with

> > the procedure, and won't turn it over to interns. Not every

> > gastroenterologist is good with an ERCP, so ask some questions. There are

> > risks associated with an ERCP, but sometimes it is necessary. It certainly

> > helped me, and I was lucky enough that my gastroenterologist happens to be a

> > world-renowned expert with ERCPs. But it also took me several tries with

> > doctors before I found my current gastroenterologist. The first few doctors

> > I saw were no help at all, and missed a lot of signs that indicated I had

> > Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction and a blocked bile duct.

> >

> >

> >

> > Kim M.

> >

> > SCD 6 years

> >

> > Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction 6+ years

> >

> > neurological & spinal deterioration 3+ years

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think it has been proven that these flushes do not remove gallstones. When

people who do this find stones in their stools the 'stones' are in fact caused

by the concoction you take and are not actuall stones that are in your system.

This certainly seems logical to me because if these so called flushes worked

then surely surgeons wouldn't be removing millions of gallbaldders each year.

Steve

SCD - 4mths

Constant nausea and stomach discomfort 19mths

> > >

> > > So if you have gallstones that show up on x-ray, that means they are

> > > calcified, right? Can you do a flush with those to get rid of them?

> > >

> > > And, dumb question (or dumber) but do they flush via urinary tract?

> > >

> > > Gracias,

> > > Debbie 41 cd

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jodi,

I've restarted Prozymes. I don't know if those are good enough though.

I have been watching my fat the last couple weeks, usually no higher then 50

grams (today I did get up to 61 grams). It's hard to get enough calories without

fats though, and since many people have advised me to eat fewer carbs, I hate to

increase those. I did manage to get up to 1000 calories today by adding back an

almond butter brownie. Hopefully my body accepts it :-).

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> All of my ultra sounds are normal and I was told by an upper GI specialist

that I probably deal with biliary sludge which is super hard to detect- an ERCP

is needed and I have held off. I have been loads better since surgery. I

believe all the strictures in that region were just stressing everything out!

> Kim M has taught me so much about this- because I have been told several times

now to just remove my GB. It's as if " uhh, you don't need it anyway " ugghhh!

> Do you take pancreatic enzymes at all?

> What about watching fat intake, does it help at all?

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

The

right upper quadrant and back between-the-shoulder-blades pain was constant

during those six months, as was the nausea. And every time I ate, the

pain and nausea would increase for a few hours, then subside again. Never

had a fine day or even a fine hour until my 3rd month on SCD, when I

had my first hour free of pain! That was a great day [grin]. My pain

levels began to drop by the end of the first week on SCD, so I knew I was on

the right path. Sounds dramatic in the telling, doesn’t it? At

the time I just coped with it, trying to find answers from doctors.

I

settled into my now-normal cycle of pain and nausea by the end of my 3rd

year on SCD. Most days, and with most meals, the pain and nausea is

minimal, so I can just ignore it. I have regular bouts of more severe

symptoms that are tied into how my nervous system is working or some other metabolic

cycle. Or what foods I’m trying to eat, or the supplements I try….

But, thank goodness, these bouts don’t occur very often and only reach

the levels where I have to go to bed for 24 hours just once or twice a year. I’ve

beat the odds, so far, of needing follow-up ERCPs and sphincterotomies and

stents every few years, and developing pancreatic and liver issues, because of

having Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction. My gastroenterologist is amazed,

but unfortunately isn’t giving SCD the credit [sigh].

I

would guess that if you are having good days then a really bad day, in terms of

pain and associated symptoms, that you are dealing with an intermittent issue

in your upper GI. Could be tied into a functional problem with your

biliary tree, or perhaps tied into your endocrine system or nervous system or…..

You might find a connection with certain foods or supplements. I’d

still check in with your gastroenterologist, and/or seek other doctors’

opinions, especially if the symptoms worsen or occur more often.

Kim M.

SCD 6 years

Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction 6+ years

neurological & spinal deterioration 3+ years

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

During

the 6 months you were waiting for diagnosis, was your pain constant or nearly

constant? Or did you have have days that were fine, then WHAM, problems?

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08