Re: Enzymes/What to expect

November 12, 2001

thank you for the info. I was planning on ordering the newest

product EnzymeComplete with DPPIV. It is for all is meant to digest all

types of foods and IF a parent is

adding casein and gluten foods it will digest normal levels of those as well.

It is stronger and more complete than any competing enzyme and also has

higher DPPIV levels.

I have not tested my children for this need, and am waiting for blood results

on dairy, wheat and soy testing. I am not stopping the diet if results are

negative tho, since we are only into it a couple of weeks into it and I think

there has been some benefit. The enzymes seemed worth a try for extra

experimentation. After messing with the dr's for 6 yrs and only getting RX's

for anti depressants and ADHD (which was rediaganosed at my insistance as

Aspergers), I am taking matters into my own hands. My Ped is letting me lead

her thru this.

SO my question with the possible side effects has been answered. Thank you.

As you seem to be much more knowledgeable in this area, is it a possibility

that I may be doing harm by TRYING these enzymes (starting out at low doses

of course). All responses on this and advisements

are appreciated. Thank you so much.

D Rochester, NY

November 12, 2001

,

I am enclosing a document from the Files of the enzyme board. It

lists possible side-effects and what you might do about them. These

were based on results primarily with Peptizyde/Zyme Prime, which we

have used for 6 months with wonderful results, but most of these

would be applicable with any enzyme product. The two main things to

remember are:

1. get the right enzyme type for the right food type (enzymes are

very specific).

2. make sure the enzymes and food are in contact in the stomach at

the same time.

.

--------------------------------------------

Possible Effects of Enzyme Use and Troubleshooting Guide

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/enzymesandautism/messages

NOTE: For a perspective on how this hyperactivity, stimming,

regression may be

related to improvements, and a sign the enzymes are working, please

see the

Hyperness/Stimming note given by an AS adult at the end of this

document.

One researcher explains it this way " when digestion starts to work

better,

malabsorption decreases, and the food supply to the gut flora is

normalized

....then the die-off releases toxins and substances that can provoke

allergic

like symptoms. This included more frequent bowel movements, increased

irritability, increased / decreased appetite, hyperactivity and more

compulsive

behaviors. Usually these presentations ceased before the third week

of

testing. " So hyperactivity and irritability and withdrawal/allergy

symptoms can

be indications the enzymes are working and the body is re-adjusting.

Hyperactivity: This seems to be a very common side-effect with enzyme

use,

although by no means does every person react this way. There are

several

reasons why a child may be more hyperactive with enzymes.

1) It may be an acute withdrawal reaction from gluten/casein

peptides, even

though you have been GFCF for awhile. There are other sources of

peptide

production (bacteria, hemoglobin degradation) within the body. Higher

doses may

be removing the sedative effect of the peptides. You may want to

decrease the

dose to lessen the symptoms. Hyperness is a very common behavior when

kids start

the GFCF diet, so the enzymes may just be removing a few more hidden

or unknown

sources. Magnesium is recommmended often for this for those beginning

the diet.

2) Increased Awareness: When there is significant improvement in many

areas,

there may also be increased stimming, hyperactivity, anxiety and a

bit of

sound sensitivity. This may be due to increased awareness of

surroundings. All of this appears to be very common or standard.

Also, realize

that as the child becomes more aware, socially and otherwise, he has

a lot more

sensory input to try and interpret. This can be overwhelming and

frustrating.

It could be that as a protective behavior, he resorts to the stimming

and

hyperactivity to try and produce the endogenous opiates, like

enkephalins.

If that's the case, then maybe sticking with the routine and

weathering the

storm may work, if it is temporary.

3) Better digestion and overall improvement in health by the enzymes

may

unmask a nutrient deficiency. A common symptom of magnesium

deficiency is

hyperactivity. Magnesium supplements are recommended for treatment of

hyperness

in many conditions besides the treatment of ASD. Other supplements

known to

help with the hyperness are calcium, zinc, folic acid, chromium.

4) Another possibility is that your child may be sensitive to one of

the

components in the enzyme product, and it is only seen at a certain

higher

dose. But if it is a serious sensitivity, it would probably be

obvious at

any dose.

5) Enzymes are known to help keep yeast and bacteria in check, that

is, in the

proper balance and they remove toxins. If the child has some yeast or

bacteria

overgrowth issues, then the die-off occurring with the introduction

of enzymes

will release toxins and substances that can provoke allergic like

symptoms.

This readjustment period may last at long as 3 weeks.

5) Many parents report that adding Zyme Prime with the Peptizyde has

decreased

or eliminated the hyperactivity. No one knows really why. Perhaps the

glucose

modulating ability of the carbohydrate enzymes in ZP have an effect.

Regression: Some parents starting on enzymes are seeing signs

of " regression. "

1) This may be due to the enzymes clearing out peptides (the body

produces some

peptides internally) from previously unknown sources, so you

see " withdrawal "

symptoms similar to what you might have seen when beginning the GFCF

diet.

There is new evidence that soy contribute a peptide that is very

similar to the

gluten and casein peptides. So children eating a lot of soy may go

through

another withdrawal period because of these peptides being broken

down.

2) Another reason for regression may be the child is now more aware

and has

more sensory input that he/she is not used to. This could be their

way of

coping until they adjust.

Thirst: Many parents notice their child is very thirsty when they

start

enzymes. This is perfectly natural. The body is metabolising more

food, so more

water is needed to process the food. It is most likely a sign that

the body is

functioning better and absorbing more nutrients. Just give more water.

Irregular Bowels: It has been noted that the body may take a day or

two to

adjust to the enzymes. Many people notice looser or runny stools for

the first

couple days before bowels become normal. This is standard for enzymes

which

have been used for decades. It may last up to 2 weeks. If it persists

longer

than that, reducing the amount of enzymes you give, especially the

peptidases,

may help. If this doesn't work, you should probably discontinue the

enzymes and

seek the advice of your doctor or other parents on the

enzymesandautism message

board.

Bed-wetting: Some families have seen temporay bed-wetting. This has

disappeared

within the first week. The body seems to adjust with a little time,

usually

within a week or two. So this may explain the more frequent urination

of kids

on these enzymes: proteases are making more amino acids,

carbohydrases are

making glucose, not to mention the glutamine present in Peptizyde,

and their

increased presence is acting as a rehydration mechanism. If you are

chelating,

this may be a benefit, since the idea is to move metals out with the

chelator

in the urine.

For best success: give enzymes at the beginning of a meal/snack.

Enzymes need

to be in solution, so either give with a good drink, or open the

capsule and

have the enzymes with the first few bites of food followed by a drink

to wash

the enzymes down. If the enzymes come in a veggie cap, such as

Peptizyde and

Zyme Prime, these may dissolve slower in the stomach. It is

recommended to take

a whole capsule 30 minutes before a meal/snack. Gelatin capsules

dissolve

within 1-2 minutes under stomach conditions. If you are comfortable

with

gelatin capsules, you can buy a bag of empty ones in a health food

store and

transfer the enzymes to them. Most people just open the capsules.

If you are first attempting to " challenge " a food that has been

restricted, do

one food at a time. It is best to have a designated amount of food so

you will

be able to first see if the enzymes+food are working. Example: one

bowl of

cereal, not the entire box or letting the child eat until he chooses

to stop.

Then start adjusting doses and food amounts.

--------------------------------

Hyperness/Stimming Perspective

Think of when adults get really involved in solving a problemt. Okay

so here

are these adults. They sit there and they are staring at the

statistics,

numbers, problem, whateever. Maybe they are trying to figure out why

some ASD

kids increase hyperness and in STIMMING while taking enzymes. But I

see them

sitting there, staring at the statistics, chewing gum or their lips,

picking

their teeth, tapping or twiddling their pencils, tapping their feet,

pacing

across the floor, or this is my favorite one, bending all the

paperclips a

certain way and then lining them up on their desks. Do you get my

point

here?? What is so bad about kids increasing their stimming?? These

researchers

are trying to figure out something which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, they

are trying

to completely FOCUS their mental energy and apply themselves 100% to

figure

this out, they need a release of all the confusion and nervous

energy,

so they STIM.

Now let's consider your own child. For the first 8 years of his life

(or

whatever age they are), you have seen whatever behaviors/difficulties

which

caused you to pursue a diagnosis for his differences. Maybe he has

walked

around, no make that " floated " thru, with his nose in a book,

seemingly

oblivious to his family and surroundings. He LOVES his leggos (or

whatever),

to the exclusion of everything else. His brother is a fly to swat

away

because " go away, you bother me " .

But now he is taking enzymes and is back " with you " . He no longer

floats thru

the house in oblivion. He is aware. He plays with his brother now, he

is now

interested in the pictures his brother draws, maybe even his teacher

has

noticed big changes. Based on my own personal experience [i am NOT

purporting

to speak for your child here LOL], I would say that the decrease in

hyper

and/or stimming etc which may or may not be present when you start

enzymes,

is because the child basically feels like sh*t for a few days/weeks,

things

are so d*mn confusing, nothing makes sense anymore, no energy to try

to figure

out why, so just try to sit back and be an observer and try to figure

out what

is going on without doing something stupid to attract too much

attention to

yourself. This may be expressed as withdrawal or regression

So now things look better. People are actually INTERESTING, even more

so than

*GASP* LEGGOS!! Certain concepts and things are not so confusing any

more.

Well, then I think your child would be doing exactly what the

researchers are

doing, I will repeat from what I wrote above, substituting " AS

children " for

the word " researchers " .

" These [AS children] are trying to figure out something which DOES

NOT MAKE

SENSE, they are trying to completely FOCUS their mental energy and

apply

themselves 100% to figure this out, they need a release of all the

confusion

and nervous energy, so they STIM. " I would also imagine that not only

is it new

and different and probably nice for them, but it is also very

overwhelming

because it is all so new and different, so they revert to what they

know best

when things get overwhelming, they STIM, and it helps them settle

down so they

can learn about life again in this new presentation.

So why is stimming such a bad thing here? There may be potential peer

pressure/teasing, which the child will soon learn to modify stims to

be more

socially appropriate, because everyone stims, you just have to figure

out which

ones are acceptable, then the kids if they are young enough [not high

school or

whatever] will soon forget all the former strangeness of their friend

and

everything will be just fine.

November 12, 2001

In a message dated 11/12/01 8:56:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kjorn@... writes:

> >>> It is stronger and more complete than any competing enzyme and

> also has higher DPPIV levels.

Just try it for yourself and see. Start really slow and work up. I've heard

some really good reports from parents on this product but they did say that

it can cause hyperactivity in the beginning but if you can ride it out,

things get much better. Dr. Holmes is recommending this product to some of

her patients and seems to be very excited about it. I just started this today

and will let you all know how it goes. We have tried Peptizyde but my son

hates it and it caused sores in his mouth (he doesn't swallow capsules). I

was hoping he could take them since I heard such good things about them but

he liked the Enzyme-aid much better and had no reactions to this. If he can't

handle the complete with DPPIV, we'll go back to this.

Jo

Representative for Unlocking Autism in South Carolina

November 12, 2001

>>> It is stronger and more complete than any competing enzyme and

also has higher DPPIV levels.

This statement does not reflect what we experienced although it may

for you. We have been taking Peptizyde for 6 months. I tried Complete

for 4 days with my older son and he regressed a little and started

bed wetting again on the 4th day (his casein reaction). I found I

would need to give at least 3 Complete capsules to equal 1 Peptiyzde.

Of course you would also get the enzymes for other foods as well. But

taking one Peptizyde and one Zyme Prime would still be one capsule

less than the 3 Completes we needed to take. Also, one serving of

Complete is 1/4 teaspoon. 1 capsule is 1/8 teaspoon. So 1/4 teaspoon

of Complete is equal to 2 capsules anyway. And, one serving of

Complete has 50,000 HUT of DPP IV peptidase. One capsule (1/8

teaspoon) of Peptizyde has 62,500 HUT of DPP IV peptidase, so I don't

know where these other figures are coming from. These numbers are

straight off the labels. However, you may do quite well with either

and this wasn't your question.

>>is it a possibility that I may be doing harm by TRYING these

enzymes (starting out at low doses of course). All responses on this

and advisements are appreciated.

In your situation, I think no, not at all, you will not be doing

harm. You are not changing the menu or anything else. Plant enzymes

are natural proteins and are usually the same as what your body

should be producing anyway. Enzymes are very helpful in gut cleaning

and healing, so that is good. All of the standard enzymes in these

products have been tested and used for years and years very safely

even though they may not be in this exact ratio together. What

enzymes your body does not use, it just processes as a protein and

breaks down into amino acids.

The only caution would be if you know you are allergic to papain or

bromelain (from papaya or pineapple). Some people, not all, may have

a problem tolerating these if they have a true IgE mediated allergy.

One mom's son broke out in hives on his upper body with just 1/10

capsule of enzymes with papain. So, of course, I said stop, stop,

stop. It turns out her son was allergic to pinapple (bromelain) which

we found out is cross-listed with papain (papaya) and possibly kiwi.

Another mom herself reacted to papain, bromelain AND kiwi and could

not tolerate any products with these in them. But the majority of

people do just fine. I do not know which plant the DPP IV analog in

Complete comes from, but that would be good to find out before you

start.

.

November 12, 2001