Lorilyn Teasdale

[Guest guest]

Hi Lorilyn,

Would you mind e-mailing me at jtclegg@...? I'm interested in what you

have to say.

Tracey

Re: behavior

Personally-- and this is variant SCD, not the official version-- I would try

pulling out the nuts and carrots, which are high oxalate. (Besides that, nuts at

least are very high on the allergic-reaction lists for ordinary people.) My son

did very poorly on our first round of SCD, and better on round two, minus nuts,

eggs, and carrots. If that doesn't help, test eggs, which are not high oxalate,

but could be an allergy issue for many. If you do retry the intro diet, you

could put squash instead of carrots in the soup; Elaine mentioned that squash

was generally well tolerated, and it is low oxalate.

My son has always had behavioral reactions to foods and other interventions

(chelation, etc) and you are right, it is very hard when others give up on your

kid. You just have to do whatever you can to make his behaviors a temporary

issue that most forget when the good things happen. I was always frustrated at

parents who did nothing biomedical, and then refused to have their kids moved

(from mainstream classes, or to lower functioning placements) due to behaviors,

but I found myself behaving a bit that way too, when I knew the behavior was

temporary and improvement was not far away. Print out some testimonials from

those who saw improvement on diet, help the aide come up with ways to protect

herself (like sitting across a desk from him, which helped with my son) and

assure them that you are doing everything you can to make this temporary.

Lorilyn

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[Guest guest]

I would like to chime in here: I have been a member of the TLO list

since its inception, and I have read every post on that list - every

parent report, every diet tip, and every abstract posted by the list

owner. I have watched what happened to kids on the LOD and tried

LOD with my kids & myself (twice). Based on my observations of what

was reported on the TLO list, my kids' and other kids' reactions,

the adults' reactions, and my own research, I have come to the

conclusion that the main source of oxalates is not dietary at all,

but endogenous production. I also believe that fungal production is

a not-insignificant source of oxalates in osme kids. I believe that

the the Low Oxalate Diet is not an appropriate one for children, for

many reasons.

Dr. Clive Solomons, who originated the low oxalate diet for women

with vulvar pain, did NOT recommend that the women in his study

group remain low oxalate for more than a short period of time,

because he recognized that the women would then start to produce

oxalates endogenously (internally). The TLO list owner either

doesn't understand that or chooses to ignore it, as she is

recommending that kids stay on a low oxalate diet indefinitely.

This is risky with children. Remaining low oxalate for a long

period of time will induce a Vitamin K deficiency, which will make

the oxalate problem worse. Using Vitamin D the way the TLO

listowner recommends - taking it only between meals - will induce a

Vitamin D deficiency because D is a fat soluble vitamin that must be

consumed with food. Consuming it between meals guarantees that it

won't be absorbed. (BTW Vitamin researchers agree that Vitamin D

deficiency is a global public health problem.) Thus the kids on the

LOD run a real risk of becoming deficient in D and K, the two

vitamins that are critical to managing calcium and building bones

and teeth, when they are children and growing fast. Moreover, the

TLO listowner recommends using calcium to " sop up " dietary oxalates

with the rationale that only about 30% of the calcium we consume is

actually absorbed. This is not true for children - children absorb

over 75% of the calcium they consume because they are growing and

building a skeleton that must last them a lifetime. Vitamin D

signals to the intestines to absorb calcium; without Vitamin D the

intestines don't absorb calcium, which leads to rickets. All of

these are important nutritional considerations, which the TLO

listowner is either unaware of or chooses to ignore.

You are more than welcome to read my paper - it can be found at

http://gutresearch.com/v1/html. In that paper I explain the reason

why I think some kids don't do well on SCD - it has to do with

calcium handling, and the problem is correctible.

SCD is a balanced diet that will feed the children while not feeding

intestinal microbes. The Low Oxalate Diet was originally designed

as a stopgap measure, to bring pain relief to adults with vulvar

pain while they used other measures to try to reduce their oxalate

load. It was not designed for children, was not intended to be used

long term, and will result in chronic nutritional deficiencies.

> SCD and LOD, was Re: behavior

>

>

> I have to chuckle at this one. There are just as many people

over on Trying_Low_Oxalates who don't advocate the SCD, because

their kids did not do well on it. I, for one, am trying to find the

common ground between the two diets, since healing is the goal, not

a particular soapbox. I am sure that Elaine would have felt the

same; healing should be the priority for all of us.

>

> The common ground, by the way, is fairly large, unless one has a

problem with eggs and casein. The long introductory diet of

pecanbread, minus the nuts, is markedly similar to a low oxalate

diet, minus the Uncle Ben's rice . High oxalate foods include most

grains and starches. Soaking the peas and lentils, and tossing the

soaking water, reduces oxalates as well as starches. Since oxalates

are restricted, rather than totally banned, moderate use of foods

that contain a fair amount of oxalates-- such as carrots-- would be

a problem for only the most sensitive. I assume my son, and possibly

the boy whose behavior triggered this thread, are among the very

sensitive. Wouldn't you rather someone tried a version of SCD that

might heal them, than abandon it altogether?

> Lorilyn